Why You Have No Shot With A Hot Woman


 Got shot down by a hottie at the gym? Got dissed by a bombshell at the bar?  Fantastic! Here’s why.


What’s up? It’s me again. Your favorite grizzled, flinty, Gen X geezer writer. Let me put down my Zima here, and talk to the men-folk out there.

I’ve lived a long, interesting life. I remember when MTV used to show…music videos. In fact, that’s what MTV stands for, Music Televis. Anyhow, I’ve been around the block,  and I’ve learned some things.

One of the most important things I’ve figured out is also one of the biggest bummers ever for guys. Nearly every hetero dude will, in some period in his life, see a hot woman, and go gaga for her. When I say hot, I mean scorching. I’m talking about a perfect ten. A dime piece. A hottie. A fox. The apex predator of beautiful women. Cindy Crawford in the early 1990’s. Pam Grier in the 1970’s. Blake Lively today. Or Kerry Washington. You get my drift. This woman will drive you crazy. You’ll be willing to buy her dinner at the most expensive of restaurants. You’ll call her nearly everyday, if you can get her phone number. You may even do stupid shit to impress her. You’ll drool over her Facebook pics.

And, she may not want you. At all.

You may not have a shot at dating her, getting to know her, or sleeping with her.

And that’s fine.

As men in America, even though there are scientific studies that prove that people in general tend to respond more favorably to “attractive” people, we (guys) are conditioned to not only notice a “hot” woman more so than an average looking girl, but we’re conditioned to believe that we have to make a play for her. It’s part of the male trifecta that we’re taught we have to aquire when we’re growing up. Men have to have a hot car, hot wife, and a nice house. That’s why guys who are threes go after women who are tens.

And that’s why many men beat themselves over the head, literally and figuratively, when they can’t pull a bombshell. Questions like, “Why doesn’t she like me?”, “Why doesn’t she notice me?”, and “We went out on a date, why haven’t I heard back from her?” will pop up in their heads. Tons of guys will demote themselves to the social/dating D-League because they’ve failed to land a hottie they’ve been perusing.

Once again, fellas. If you’ve struck out with a hot woman, that’s fine.

Why? Because, the hot woman that you may like doesn’t have to like you. Let me rewind that. The hot woman that you like, doesn’t have to like you. You may be a guy who has a great job, and a 2015 foreign luxury car. The hottie might not be impressed by your toys. You may be a guy won the genetic lottery, and you may be a ten yourself. The gorgeous woman at the bar may not be attracted to you. If you are an average looking guy, and you’ve chatted up a breathtakingly beautiful woman at a social event, and told her jokes and made her laugh a few times, that doesn’t mean that she’ll give you her number. The breakdown? Just because a woman is hot, and men have been programed to go after hot women, doesn’t mean we will “get” a hot woman.

My advice, fellas (if I haven’t lost you already), is to concentrate on the women that you naturally vibe with. The women that you meet, or have met, and you have near-instant chemistry with, are the ones you should pay attention to. In most instances, those are the women you’re supposed to date—or get to know. The woman that’s seen Star Wars as often as you have and can quote the movie verbatim, just like you can, could be the keeper. The woman who makes you smile when you see her number flash on your smartphone or the one who makes your heart dance when you read her Twitter posts may just be your real “hottie”.

That’s enough advice from me. You know us old folks, we need our constant naps. I’m gonna go to sleep, while watching this episode of the Ricki Lake Show on my VCR.

The first Ricki Lake Show.


Photo sabrebiade Flickr

About Greg Simms

Greg Simms Jr. is an editor/writer for The Good Men Project.com, pop culture expert, thought leader, and speaker. He's spoken at colleges and events, and is available for speaking engagements and media (radio, television, internet) guest appearances. Simms Jr. has been published in HipHopDX.com, The Dayton Daily News, and several other digital and print publications. You can find him on Twitter (@gregsimmsjr) and contact him at grgsmmsjr@gmail.com


  1. That is part of your method on how to make money fast the ‘turbo

  2. FlyingKal says:

    I don’t want a (conventionally) hot woman.
    I want a woman who feels hot when she’s with me…

  3. maplemale says:

    As an average looking guy with an above average intellectual ability, I started making around $60k a year right out of highschool in 2001 in a fairly poor community. I was awkward and bad at sports etc. I had a VERY hard time in highschool making a good play and even landing more than a 10 second conversation with “that girl.” At about 19 years old, I committed myself to understand people better and especially women and I realized something: People are incredibly easy to manipulate and “that girl” is no exception. I take that back – she is an exception! She is the easiest of all. Her issue: because she is very good looking it’s more likely she hasn’t had to work on her intellectual skills much. All human interaction is a science. She doesn’t realize this, she just does what’s natural to her and follows her emotions. She gets what she wants regardless, 90% of the time. As an intelligent and confident person (can’t stress the last part enough), you have a serious advantage. But, you know what I quickly discovered? “That girl” wasn’t at all what I imagined. In fact, she was totally dull, boring, shallow and well… too easy to figure out. On top of that, she’s not interested in the same things and after I’m done putting on the show to get her attention (and I did get her attention), I found myself quickly feeling guilty like I was using her. I knew I would ditch her soon after I proved something idiotic to myself, and I did. This happened with about 3 different “that girl(s)” until I finally alienated half my guy-friends and stood no chance of a meaningful relationship with any of the women I grew up with either. Looking back it’s all quite hilarious actually. See… I eventually married a smart and attractive woman and have been married for 7 years and have two kids. I honestly don’t know what I did right that the universe would bless me so much. I could go on telling you how amazing she is, but I’m probably just biased. Maybe she’s a 7, maybe she’s a 10. I’m not sure to be honest. But, she stays up all night playing Eve Online with me, is a CEO of a tech company she and I built together and is a wonderful mother. All the things I find interesting, valuable and fun.

    I guess I’m just reiterating what the article is saying. Find that girl you have instant chemistry with. I guarantee if you tried hard enough, you can likely land the prom queen. But why bother? It’s such a waste of time and she’s likely not all that. Maybe she is all that, but still – who cares. She’s just a person like you only luckier in some way maybe. If you have no chemistry with any girls, maybe just try and understand them better. They really are wonderful creatures who are just so different from us that it’s often hard to understand what’s going on. Our hormones don’t help us in the study of these beautiful beings. Try to put all that aside now and then and figure out what women in general are really all about. If you find that boring / uninteresting, then you are probably not really fit for a relationship anyway. Move on. Find something else besides women that interests you and get used to m@sturbating.

  4. Seriously Danielle?

    Women rate men ALL THE TIME.

    • Even if they did (they don’t), they totally don’t use any “beauty rating” to choose partners. If anything, they choose the personality, bahvior and chemistry “rating”.

  5. First of all, commenter Erin is hotter (sight unseen) than Cindy Crawford. By a lot. And many, many men were NOT raised to prize and collect cars, babes, and houses. This was embarrassing, bro. The project remains a project.

  6. Wes Carr says:

    As a general rule, the hotter a woman is, the more emotional baggage and/or entitlement issues
    she has.

  7. It’s funny, because on one level, I can’t relate to what Greg’s saying here. He’s really played the game: I’d always been on the sidelines, afraid of it. But that was because I knew (or really felt) the outcome. That it all seemed like a lot of effort to get laid, when what I really wanted was a relationship with a girl who was perfect…perfect for me. And hitting on semi-visible, inaudible girls, most of who seemed shallow and intoxicated, in a nightclub atmosphere was like buying a lottery ticket where you can win a million dollars, but most likely get kicked in the balls. I stayed home, mostly. But trying to imagine what it must be like to steel oneself in an effort to “play the game” as men are expected to do, I remember the feelings of my youth. I wasn’t bad looking by any means: I wanted a good looking girl–not Cindy Crawford, really, although maybe, but, just a Valerie Bertinelli, maybe Ally Sheedy, or Lisa Bonet, Jeanine Garafalo: you know, cute, smart, sweet. But they aren’t average girls either, are they? I think Greg is saying that with all the bombardment of media and expectations that boys face, men get an honestly-gotten but unrealistic view of what we are supposed to have in a woman if we want to have self esteem, and be esteemed by others. It’s a losing game: but I think he’s saying it’s OK, that “ordinary” women are really worth it, if their heart and mind are in synch with yours: they are sexy and deserve to be treated as such. Women might take the same advice for men who don’t fit their expectations of success. The dating world is rife with people on both sides displaying personas designed to impress, hiding their fear and sadness and letting their bitterness sometimes call the shots.

  8. Danielle says:

    I get what you’re trying to put across, Greg, that beauty isn’t the only thing that matters, but basically you’re saying that any girl who isn’t a model is a girl her man has ‘settled’ for. Like, anyone who’s not ‘a 10’ isn’t attractive or won’t be noticed; won’t make a guy’s heart flutter or stutter his speech. All we can hope for is that we get into a conversation with them and impress them so deeply with witty one liners that they fall in love with us.
    Most of us hate our bodies anyway and reading this doesn’t help…I certainly feel a bit more shit than I did 10 minutes ago because I know I’m not a supermodel. Like, if this is true, my boyfriend must have picked me because he supposed I was as good as he was ever going to get. I know that both men and women are biologically drawn to attractive people, but you’ve painted it like us mere mortals will always be secondary.

    • OK, so why did you pick your boyfriend? Were there other guys who weren’t good enough for you that you turned down? Why weren’t you all a-fluttered and stuttering over them? Were you all that swept away by your boyfriend? Yes, realistically, people get as good as they can, and some end up with more or less than they deserve. Ask yourself honestly if, before you had developed feelings for him, you wouldn’t rather have a richer, or handsomer, or taller, or more eloquent boyfriend. Most people are relatively ordinary in most ways, and sometimes pleasantly extraordinary in others. You’re probably very beautiful in your own way, even if you don’t believe it when you look in the mirror. Are you Cindy Crawford? No? So? Ask yourself this, too: have you thought about how difficult it is to approach a girl, knowing that your self esteem is on the line? With all the media influence and pressure for success that boys feel to get a “hot” girl, have you ever considered approaching them to give them a chance to see how beautiful you are? If you haven’t, I wouldn’t blame you, because it would be really hard to do, but you know, it’s hard all around.

      • “With all the media influence and pressure for success that boys feel to get a “hot” girl, have you ever considered approaching them to give them a chance to see how beautiful you are?”

        Dude. Shit us not. Guys want hot girls. I am not a hot girl. Why would I ever approach a man just to be the “something not that great at all, but that fell on my lap so I’ll take for a while, and maybe even settle down cause I can’t get a better woman, as hotteness is basically all that matters”?

  9. I’m sorry Greg…I hate to say it because I know you had good intentions, but this article made me feel just terrible about myself. I agree with Erin’s sentiments entirely and all I hear is, settle settle settle. That if you’re not a hot girl, you’re shit out of luck and will always be second fiddle to the hot girl the guy really wanted. I think you may have missed the mark here, I think you should re read Erin’s critique and take it with a perspective of empathy instead of a personal attack. I think you will understand her point of view.

    • That’s not at all what he’s saying. What he’s saying is directed towards men and it’s common sense. Go for the woman that shares your interest because inevitably she’ll be the 10 you really wanted.

  10. Erin, you’re kidding yourself if you believe that men aren’t judged by women using the same kind of scale. Yes we all know that looks don’t mean everything when it comes to relationships, but a wealthy and good looking man is bounds ahead of mr average. It’s nature, just the way it is. Doesn’t mean you won’t eventually meet Mr average and prefer him over rich man with six pack and chiselled jaw….

    You’re taking the piss surely

  11. I thought of it more this way: A “hottie” really does not need her ego stroked. I might chat with her, but if she seems “unimpressed” like she’s looking at some child, I’d much rather direct my affections to someone who is actually humble and deserves it. Talking to her casually, while serving its normal purpose, is also my means to determine whether or not she is this kind of woman.

    See, I’ve dated a self-proclaimed “hottie”, and it was a charade of expectations she had for me that she didn’t bother even TRYING to meet herself.

    So I think while the message of “She doesn’t HAVE to like you” is certainly a good one, I think we should also talk about things like how her opinion of you shouldn’t even matter.

  12. Wow, this article made me really glad I’m not a 10 because having men constantly coming up to me and trying to catch my attention sounds like an absolute nightmare. Leave me alone please, I am not interested now and won’t be later. #taken #awesomegirlfriend #lovetocookandclean #youaintgettinany

    • So you comment on a men’s awareness site to talk about how glad you are those “yucky male-beasts” will never be worthy of you?

      Let’s talk about THAT.

      • Lolabunny says:

        Eh she did not call any man beast and even less said she is too much they will never be worthy her.
        She just said that, gasp, she feels unconfortable with too much attention, even more so because hse is taken so of course she is not interested and won’t ever be.

        THAT is in your head.

  13. “Do women run around rating men on a scale from 1-10 based on their paychecks? No.”

    Not exactly, but women do go around rating the status levels of men and ignore or are turned off by those with low status.

    From Mark Manson..

    “Research shows that the largest common denominator when studying what attracts women to men is that men who are perceived to be of higher status around women tend to attract them more often.
    Sexual attraction from women is determined by status, status is determined by behavior, and what determines whether a man has attractive behavior or not is his perception of himself relative to those around him, particularly women. I refer to this concept as neediness and believe the degree of a man’s neediness around women will determine how attractive or unattractive his behavior around them will be.

    the leading theory on female arousal is women are turned on by bold behaviors, displays of bravery, and direct sexual desire, particularly when directed at the woman who is getting aroused.

    Whether it’s Fabio the Firefighter or the sexy surfer who braves the 20 foot waves in frigid waters or the solider coming home from war, displays of bravery turn women on more than anything else.

    If you don’t believe me, go to your local book store and look at the romance novels. Romance novels are basically porn for women, and you’ll find that they all feature warriors, soldiers, bad boys, race car drivers, football players, firefighters, jet pilots, and enter-your-super-sexy-and-dangerous-occupation-here.

    And not only are these men racy and exciting, but they’re usually brash and debonair — they say what they want and go after it without apology.

    But what does this mean for a couple regular guys like you and me?

    It means being nervous around her is going to be a pretty BIG TURN OFF.

    Afraid to talk to her, afraid to ask her out, afraid to kiss her, afraid to take her home — Fabio the Firefighter wouldn’t be afraid to ravish her, so why should you?
    What it means is that despite every woman you’ve ever heard complain about men hitting on them, bold displays of interest actually work in your favor the majority of the time, as long as they’re demonstrated in a manner that is not too threatening or disrespectful.”

    • Anonymous says:

      I have never read those romance novels but I admit it is a turn on when a man is cock sure (or acts that way). To me it is anyway…to some women it is a turn off.

    • J, I would love if men were more attracted to me because of my behavior! I don’t understand what’s wrong with women being more attracted to a man because of his behavior.

      I think you’ll find women love men who are passionate about something that is honorable. Like you said, he could be a firefighter, a surfer, there are lots of women that have the hots for self described “nerd” types (count me in on that group), there are lots of women that love men who are good in the kitchen, who play music, who are artists and men who are in the business world. Women like men that show passion and confidence in what he enjoys doing.

      As someone who use to read romance novels when I was younger, I know all about them. The lead character is never a “bad boy”. He’s a man that knows who he is, knows what he wants, thinks that the heroine is the most beautiful woman he’s ever known and shows a mastering of qualities like honor, respect and loyalty. It’s not about the warrior, the solider, the football player, the jet pilots. It’s about the honor, respect and loyalty. And just so you know, many romance novels focus around men who are farmers, fathers, writers, chefs too..not just soldiers and firefighters.

      And yes, the men usually go after what they want in these books without apology. But they go after what they want with honor. And *that* is what women like about these books. It isn’t the “go after what they want with all costs to other people”. It’s the honor part that women are drawn too. As you said yourself, women can enjoy a man who demonstrates his interest with respect. And both men and women site “having confidence” as one of their biggest turn ons.

      • Exactly. Behavior is what matters the most! Their passion in life, their personality and how we connect – that is over 95% of what matters.
        Now for straight men, what matters over 95% is how hot your body is.

  14. Robert Hartman says:

    While true, this article is immensely unsatisfying. Why should anyone take the Greg’s word for it and “settle?” The thing about the hottie is this. She’s getting hit on _all_the_time._ It’s not personal when she doesn’t respond to you. She’s been thoroughly conditioned to respond with an automatic “no.” And, because all those ten thousand guys before you persisted, she’s also immune to persistence. You will _never_ get past an initial “no.” Not gonna happen. So Greg is right, because it is fantastic news that you don’t have to waste another precious second once the “no” is clear. You can move on and learn to have more fun with the hunt, and you won’t have to worry about hurting anyone’s feelings.

    When you start having _fun_ with your hunt, women will start to warm up to you. When you realize that love doesn’t come _from_ a woman, it comes _through_ her–and she really doesn’t have all that much control over it–you will stop going for the alpha hunters (who are just as frustrated as you are, BTW, and even more cranky), and start recognizing women who actually do take a shine to you. And guess what, some of them will be as hot as can be. But no one whose mind is closed to you will stay hot for long, and if you do enough of the PUA games to find that out, you’ll have done a few too many of those games. Collect enough rejections and examine what you did wrong in your approach and it won’t take long for you to figure out how to put a woman at ease. Women can tell when you’re jacked up on testosterone. That’s not a problem. They like that. What they don’t like is when you’re jacked up and thinking only about yourself and what you want with them. On the other hand, what really separates the men from the boys is when you can be totally buzzed and _still_ be focused on making her feel comfortable. You don’t have to be smooth about it, you just have to be clear about it. When you can put a woman at ease while so turned on that you can barely see straight, you will become irresistible. A man who can do that is a rare find and a total keeper. So get out there and practice, practice, practice. No woman will mind if you practice with her, so long as you’re cool with it when the “no” comes down. Be nice. Say thanks. Move on. Right then. Just go. Can you say “next?” I knew you could.

  15. so basically this article is saying: treat women like humans? mind-blown!

  16. Men are such BS when it comes to their feeling of entitlement towards the women that they choose to date. I remember getting asked out by a guy once and I wasn’t interested. He immediately had to come back and say something about me being fat and guess what? He was fat! While I did carry extra weight, he was twice the size that I was (double standard – guys can be fat but women cannot be). That was real mature of him and definitely made me happy that I turned him down.

    • So…do you really want to play the game of generalizing about men because of a experience you had with A man?

      And if you do, why would you (or any woman) object when the MGTOW crowd plays the exact same game?

      We have a choice: We’re either going to deal with people as individuals, or we’re going to lump them all into a group – a group defined by the worst behavior of least evolved and most unconscious members of the group.

      • That is something that happens over and over again. Men do that shit all the fucking time.
        People object when MGTOW deem women as worthless, as parasites that should be killed, as babymachines, as sex slaves and toys. Such a difference there.

    • Missy, you ever seen a woman get turned down for sex? I have, (I mean, I was the guy doing it after all) I have never seen a more prodigious use of the word F*G and questioning of my sexuality, my penis size, whether I lived with my parents still or not, and my employment in my god damned LIFE.

  17. Wes Carr says:

    Zeta Males and MGTOWs have learned not to fall for a woman just because she is “hot”.

    • Lolabunny says:

      Wes Carr have still not learned to be less obsessed about these weird manosphere groups.

    • Yes, they learned to hate them instead. Even though they still find the “hot” females the most valuable – or only valuable for that matter.

  18. Not even sure that this is ment to be taken seriously? Maybe it’s my overly simplistic mind missing something, so let me try to summarise the basic messages:

    1 – All men are pre programmed to be attracted to “super hot” women, and will always try to make an approach. I’d be really interested in seeing which ground breaking studies have proven this? Certainly doesn’t match my personal experience.

    2 – I’m likely to be rejected if I approach a “super hot” woman, therefore I shouldn’t approach in the first place? Is this the latest in motivational/positive thinking? Perhaps some new development in NLP that I’m not yet familiar with. Maybe I should extend this to other areas of my life? Don’t go for that promotion as I’ll probably not get it, and if I do the chances are I won’t be able to do the job anyway.


    • 1 – All men are pre programmed to be attracted to “super hot” women, and will always try to make an approach. I’d be really interested in seeing which ground breaking studies have proven this?

      The ground breaking study would be PLAYBOY magazine.

      Although, technically you have a point. It should be all hetero-normative men, rather than all men.

      2 – I’m likely to be rejected if I approach a “super hot” woman, therefore I shouldn’t approach in the first place? Is this the latest in motivational/positive thinking?

      That’s not what he’s saying. He’s saying don’t beat yourself up if she’s a 10 and you’re a 4, and you can’t make it happen. Your odds are just a whole lot better if you date near your own number. This isn’t just common sense…it has been verified by LOTS of psych studies.

      • Anonymous says:

        Jam – thanks for sharing your interpritation of the article.

        For me, I find far too many loose generalisations and speculations about how men are ‘conditioned’ to to react, respond and behave around women. Unless somebody can point me in the direction of something a little more scientific than Playboy, I’ll stick by my original statement.

        • You want scientific? There’s nothing more scientific than advertising. Money talks, and bullshit walks.

          That’s why they don’t use average looking women to sell stuff to men – whether it be cars, beer, shaving cream, whatever.

          You want scientific? There’s a ton – a motherlode – of information gathered by real live scientists about what men find sexy and hot – and what women find sexy and hot, too. That’s why you find Fabio on the cover of a million romance novels, and not Danny DeVito.

          Now, if you want to pretend that things are different than they really are, and that the vast majority of hetero-normative men aren’t drawn to hotness like flies towards honey – you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. It may well be true in some alternate universe, but it’s not generally true in this one.

          And now that women are shaking off centuries of repression, whether imposed by society or self, they’re just as drawn to hotness as men. Two words: Ryan Gosling.

          It’s the human condition (generally speaking, with a few exceptions that do nothing so much as prove the rule). Let’s start by being grown up enough to acknowledge it (as the author does) – and then we can decide individually what (if anything) we want to do about it.

          • Lolabunny says:

            Funny that you talk about Ryan Gosling… do you know how many women mention his PERSONALITY and talent when talking about him? I know, the guy is sweet. Funny that women still care too much about men’s personalities and deeper values as humans, while men will find a woman hot and… screw the rest, she should just show me her boobs or gtfo.
            Another difference is: women are still much more generous. I *could* rate men by 0-10 and that is true not so many will be 10’s (some guys have rated me 8 and 9, so I’m fine ahaha). But when it comes to relationships or even just plain sexual partners I could just give the 3’s a chance if they are sweet, make me feel comfortable and have great personalties. Now when it comes to men… yeah, a desperate guy could give a 3 a chance (even when he is a 2 himself) but he will still believe that is too low, he deserves better just for being a man, will think “well, at least she serves for giving me blowjobs” and will forever hide from society he could screw such worthless female.

          • Most women would agree they find Ryan Gosling attractive. But that’s all. We don’t want a man who looks like him; we don’t focus on these “super hot” guys. We still focus on personality and “chemistry” – when that feels right. We look for their humanity, their everlasting beauty, the one that is inside. in fact, even for casual sex we still want someone we can connect with the most.

      • Yeah but men’s reality of what their number is and what other women’s numbers are are a bit askew.

      • Lolabunny says:

        But women in playboy are not super hot naturally, that is what culture tells us is hot.
        Lower than healthy weight, fake breasts and butts and nails and hair and maybe many other things, makeup and photoshop, hairless bodies… not exactly ~natural~. And people have to talk about beauty standards a little bit more.

  19. I personally don’t think I have ever felt more second rate as woman on the GMP then after reading this article. I have always felt that the majority of writers on GMP at least cared about helping men and women have stronger relationships. This seems more like the kind of propaganda I’ve seen on stereotypical male websites that I long ago left due to my frustration at the shallow things men appeared to care about. I sincerely think this is just about the worst article I’ve ever seen on here and is a step back from the kind of conversation It think GMP encourages.

    Greg, please don’t do us less enticing, less exciting average ladies any favors. Please. You know, the ladies you aren’t willing to pay dinner for, The one you don’t call everyday and maybe just call for a hook-up when you got a boner and need a hole to get off in, The ones you have sex with while you dream about banging Blake Lively and Cindy Crawford..oh but only when Cindy was young because now she’s chopped liver in the face of all that bursting manly testosterone. The ones you could care less about impressing because their physical looks are sub-par with whatever standards you’ve come to set for women. The ones you apparently have to force yourselves to see the value in, when you truly don’t, because any woman that doesn’t look like Tyra Banks is automatically less of a woman to you, for it. Or is that only Tyra Banks late 90s early 00s?

    Don’t do us more average ladies any favors Greg by throwing us bits of your attention. or forcing yourself to do so. This article is so condescending and is a perfect example of why we still live in a society that is designed to cater to men. And please for the love of God stop giving people, men and women, arbitrary numbers based on how you’ve rated their worth. Do women run around rating men on a scale from 1-10 based on their paychecks? No.

    Oh and Greg? Do you know the real reason men that don’t have stereotypical good looks still go for super hot women? A) Women don’t put nearly the same pressure on men to look a certain way to value him as men to do women. They often have a broader scope of attraction that include looking at a man’s other qualities where once again, men primarily focus on hot bodies. B) It has nothing to do with men being more programmed to sexually objectify the other gender. WTF, by the way. How about showing us the science that actually proves your claim. But it does have something to do with a sense of entitlement men have culturally developed from society making the female body a mass sold product that pretty much caters to men. Whether it’s porn, mainstream TV or whatever…women are a product sold to men for their viewing pleasure. And while it’s common to see less attractive men with beautiful younger co-stars when they are woman, it is not so true that we see less attractive women with beautiful younger male co-stars.

    This article sounds so entitled and really degrading to women no matter what her actual looks are. Whether she’s a beautiful woman or a plain one.

    • Greg Simms Jr says:

      Uhh…Erin. The entire article was about shooting holes in an ages old way of thinking. I’m really confused about what you came away with from the piece… REALLY confused.

      • If this is what “shooting holes” in “an ages old way of thinking”, we seriously have a long way to go in this conversation.

        I don’t think your article is all that great for hot women or for average women. You still describe women’s attractiveness as being the be all and end all in the discussion. You focus on it for 4-5 paragraphs. You even justify it by saying that’s how men are biologically and socially. Even really attractive women don’t want men to place their worth there. In your last paragraph, which is actually the first and only time in your piece you acknowledge other qualities of women, you make sure you comment on how a man needs “near-instant chemistry” still. But you don’t discuss what ‘near-instant chemistry” is and how men may relate it to a woman’s physical attractiveness vs other qualities.

        I’m sorry Greg, but I don’t see how this article reflects shooting holes in old ways of thinking.

        Yeah, you throw us some breadcrumbs at the end of your piece. But a significant amount of your piece was about why men like hot women..really, really hot women and how it’s natural to men. Very little of your article actually focuses on looking at women in a different light.

        • Jonathan G says:

          But a significant amount of your piece was about why men like hot women..really, really hot women and how it’s natural to men.

          I’m sorry, but is there some definition of “hot women” out there that doesn’t include men liking them and feeling natural attraction to them? As far as I am aware, their own attraction is the metric that all people use to judge the “heat” of their potential sexual partners.

          • Well Johnathan, Greg said that his article was about “shooting holes in age old thinking”. To me, within this conversation, that means men begin to see women on an entirely different level then current culture and popular society shows men seeing women.

            I fail to see where new thinking or ground breaking ideas are happening here. Maybe someone can point it out to me because I just may be missing it.

            To me it the same old conversation. Men like hot women. Men are suppose to like hot women. Men should go for hot women. Society and other men measure each other by the hot women on their arm. Men are much more predisposed to go for the hottest partner over anyone else, it’s their biological right…i am paraphrasing here… It’s not much different then how men talk about women for generations. Women don’t matter unless they are super hot in the ways men want them to be. He spends a significant amount of time giving men reasons why going for the hottest woman is socially and biologically the way it should be, rating women based on his scale of their worth, and dedicates the last paragraph to saying, “but hey, if a girl isn’t super hot like the kind of girl us men really want, and will go to the ends of the earth for, you instead can just settle for the girl you have *instant* chemistry with and if she likes Star Wars like your best buddies do, that’s good enough. Hey, you don’t even have to pay for all those meals because with an average girl, she should pay her half.” Because the reality is, men will infact go to the ends of the earth for women they deemed special and important enough to do so, meaning “hot women”. Yet for average women, you feel a level of contempt and even spitefulness from men who will argue about it’s all about “equality” now and men and women are “equal” so they should be paying for dates “equally”. The only time that applies is when the man has deemed the woman less worthwhile then what he really wants.

            This isn’t a “new conversation.” Men want hot women. Check. Got it. But guys can find chicks that are “good enough”. Just don’t throw those Maxim and Playboy magazines out yet. If you are going to be stuck in a relationship with a girl that’s only kind of pretty or not pretty at all, you’re gonna need all the material you can hold on to to get through it.

            • You’d be in for a rude shock dating as a man. Tell me, how many average looking women get married? How many have their partners profess their undying love for them? Because a good portion of my facebook friends list and people I know have average partners and those guys would straight up kill you probably if you mess with their wives/loves. Maybe the U.S isn’t the same.

              When you’re only going for lust-based relationships, physical beauty remains supreme. When you want love, you need emotional connections, you need some similar tastes (eg star wars), the non-physical attributes are ESSSSSSENNTIALL for a relationship and will overpower the physical attributes so even average women will be loved more than someone who is only liked for their looks.

            • If you think women are not out there rating women..watch this.


            • Oops, I meant *men

              haha sorry.

            • Jonathan G says:

              Erin, I empathize with you, I really do. It doesn’t seem fair that some people win the genetic lottery and others of us don’t, but the truth of the matter is that some people are “hot” and some are “not.” You can’t bargain, browbeat, argue or shame that fact out of human nature and get men everywhere to re-define mind-melting-hotness to include you.

              All that Greg is saying here is that physical gorgeousness isn’t the be-all, end-all of relationships and suggesting that men pay attention to other qualities. That would seem to be a good thing. In fact, I wish women would heed his advice, because there’s no way in hell that I could ever bargain, browbeat, argue or shame women into re-defining their notion of mind-melting-hotness to include short, balding, middle-aged men like me.

              Oh, and by the way, in my experience, everything you’ve described about how reprehensibly men act describes from my point of view how women act. To a ‘t’. I could rage against it, but I’m much happier accepting that that’s the way people work and doing the best I can with what I’ve got.

            • Jonathan, can you help me understand what you are empathizing with me about? I suspect you are empathizing with me over the wrong thing. Over the fact that you have hypothesized that I’m not very hot and that’s where my issue stems from.

              I really don’t care about who “won the genetic lottery”. I actually think it’s pretty awesome that people come in a billion different combinations. But then again, I don’t sit around giving people arbitrary numbers pretending I should have the power to say what their worth is. Cindy Crawford is beautiful. She was beautiful 20 years ago and you know what? She’s still freaking beautiful today. I think this line of thinking is problematic to average women as much as it is to beautiful women. Here is a secret, beautiful women don’t want to be chased after and lusted after and desired and have nice things done for them only because they got a hot body.

              What I have a problem with is how men and women have become socialized to value and interact with one another. What I have a problem with is how much media men have been immersed in since they were boys and how that’s shaped their expectations of women. So yeah, I’m going to continue to speak up against that because that’s where change starts. If you are happier accepting things the way they are, more power to you. It actually makes me happier to challenge the current social norms and work towards improving the quality of life for everyone. Even though it’s an uphill battle to do so.

              I have already stated my peace about why I find Greg’s article problematic. You and the other guys here could try to work on understanding why that is since I’m clearly not the only woman who had this response to this article.

              If you want to dismiss my point of view and assume I’m just “raging” against it, you’re allowed to. But it doesn’t get much done in the realm of men and women working toward a common and hopefully more improved goal.

              P.S. Archy, I would be in for a rude awakening dating as a man? Perhaps it is you that would be in for a rude awakening dating as a woman. stop being dismissive to women and their dating experiences. This is a very real issue among men.

            • Lolabunny says:

              @ Archy
              “When you’re only going for lust-based relationships, physical beauty remains supreme.”
              Maybe you, man? I still go a lot after the famous “chemistry”. Physical beauty is not the most important for everyone, not even when looking for purely sexual relationships. But I see that maybe for 99% of the men that is true, and very easy as well, I see so much more beautiful and vain women than men, men really live in a paradise lol.

            • Lolabunny says:

              @Jonathan G
              “You can’t bargain, browbeat, argue or shame that fact out of human nature and get men everywhere to re-define mind-melting-hotness to include you. [….] I wish women would heed his advice, because there’s no way in hell that I could ever bargain, browbeat, argue or shame women into re-defining their notion of mind-melting-hotness to include short, balding, middle-aged men like me.”

              Come on, Greg. What is attractive or not is many times dictated by culture. You know that, don’t you? Female hotness became ridiculous. Unhealthy diets and lower than ideal weight, fake breasts, painfully obtained hairless bodies, perfect “soft” faces. That is actually not our “nature”. And so you know: MANY women would tell you out loud how they love bald and middle-aged men (and would forgive your height ahaha). Many, many do. The only problem is that these women will also the middle-aged and maybe not that hot… and that is not something even middle-aged, bald or kinda chubby men are willing to give a chance, right? I know you guys, I know you. 😛

              “I could rage against it, but I’m much happier accepting that that’s the way people work and doing the best I can with what I’ve got.”
              Yeeaahh… you guys are dismissing many things. If women objects, she is complaining. If she is speaking her mind she is bitching. Is she is explaining she is raging and nagging. Shitty sexist behavior you guys, seriously.

              @ Erin
              Keep the good work. They will try to bring you down just like they do to most females here. Keep strong, you are fine.

    • Yes! Exactly this.

    • Are you serious? How do you know you are an average woman to EVERY GUY?

      “Please. You know, the ladies you aren’t willing to pay dinner for, The one you don’t call everyday and maybe just call for a hook-up when you got a boner and need a hole to get off in, The ones you have sex with while you dream about banging Blake Lively and Cindy Crawford..oh but only when Cindy was young because now she’s chopped liver in the face of all that bursting manly testosterone.”

      How in Thor’s name do you know what Greg likes? How do you know he cares less?

      “Do women run around rating men on a scale from 1-10 based on their paychecks? No.”
      Girls in my class openly asked the guys penis size and rated them. Some women DO rate people based on numbers, usually they rate guys looks on numbers from my experience.

      ” A) Women don’t put nearly the same pressure on men to look a certain way to value him as men to do women.”
      Women are no less shallow than men. Question, how many unemployed guys do you see being dated by women or chased after by women? How about low income men? Meanwhile it doesn’t matter as much to many men, both genders are shallow. I can introduce you to plenty of shallow women who want men based on looks mostly.

      His article, whilst generalizing like crazy, has an overall message of not getting so caught up in physical beauty and that a person’s real “beauty” probably includes a lot of other attributes.

      “You still describe women’s attractiveness as being the be all and end all in the discussion.”
      No he doesn’t, the whole point of the article was to say beauty is more than skin deep. The big lead up was to emphasize a stereotype of a man attracted to a physical hottie who may be overlooking the real hottie, someone attractive in body + mind that he meshes well with and he’s also saying men are not entitled to women liking them. When you write 5 paragraphs on it, it conveys to the readers how much the stereotypical man likes this “hottie”. It’s like saying she is super duper star trooper uber sexy to the power of goddess physically beautiful, and being so caught up on looks you overlook other attributes which are great.

      Seriously, that was one good lashing you gave him.

      • “Women are no less shallow than men. Question, how many unemployed guys do you see being dated by women or chased after by women? How about low income men? Meanwhile it doesn’t matter as much to many men, both genders are shallow. I can introduce you to plenty of shallow women who want men based on looks mostly.”
        Of course women in general are much less shallow than men. Well, most guys date, unemployed or not. Most women date as well. The same goes for the low income. Sure you know plenty of shallow women who want men based on looks mostly; the thing is, almost all men care about looks in a very toxic way.

      • Do women run around rating men on a scale from 1-10 based on their paychecks? No

        A) Women don’t put nearly the same pressure on men to look a certain way to value him as men to do women

        “Hi, how tall are you?”

        “6’3″ ”

        “Oh cool, we can date.”

        “Hi, how tall are you?”

        “5’8″ ”

        “Oh sorry, I want to be enveloped and not tower over you when I’m wearing heels.”

    • Couldn’t agree more with everything Erin said. If this is supposed to be an example of evolved male thinking, I fear that I may be single forever because I refuse to be with any man who exhibits even an inkling of this culturally programmed sense of entitlement about obtaining the hottest trophy possible. And, for the record, while I generally shudder when the term is thrown in my direction, I’m often told that I’m “hot” by the opposite sex (I’d much rather be complimented on my intelligence or compassion, etc. etc.)

    • Madison says:

      Erin, I had similar thoughts. Like, it’s fine if the attractive girls don’t go for you, just try your hardest to pursue the less attractive ones, they’re probably more attainable. Too much value is placed on women’s looks; if all men want is a hottie, then it obviously doesn’t matter if we’re smart, talented, etc. It’s insulting to “attractive” women too, as if that’s all that matters, who cares about their dreams, personalities, or brains? As a woman who struggles with self-esteem, it seems that Greg is saying that I’m a valid second option if men can’t “get” the first, more attractive option.

    • Erin’s original comment was perfect. This article made me feel bad about myself and bad about men. The fact that the author couldn’t see where Erin could possibly be coming from with her critique is SCARY to me.

      • Anonymous says:

        Totally agree with you, Janine. And with Erin.
        I’m so glad I’m not the only one who felt this way while reading the article.

        • I’m glad that I’m not the only one that felt this way too Anonymous!

          Janine, you summed up my exact feelings. I also felt bad about men and myself after reading this article. And I was really shocked that this was suppose to somehow be evolved thinking.

          Madison, I’m right there with you.

    • “Do women run around rating men on a scale from 1-10 based on their paychecks? No.”

      Uh, yeah, they do. Well, maybe not on a “1-10” scale because a paycheck has a ready made number for their rating convenience.

      • Lolabunny says:

        The difference is that women who care about your damned paycheck are rare. You know, most women are not one man prostitutes, as much as it seems you want to believe it. But sorry about that, dude, you will not be able to condone men’s extremely common behavior by pointing out some small type of women, that sucks, uh? That is the reason you do not have articles after articles written by women talking about how to get that “rich guy”… most women could care less. Your personality and social confidence is what matters the most. Looks DO matter, but you do not have to be super hot, or even as much as her.
        Now when it comes to men and women’s looks… that is certain everywhere. Men will only focus on the hottest women when talking about women and that is all.

        • A study just a couple of years back showed the same man wearing two different outfits. In one, he wore an expensive suit. In the other, he was in a McDonalds outfit. The women preferred the former, not the latter, despite that it was the same man.

          This isn’t about gold-digging, it’s about hypergamy and the default position of the man as the “success object”.

  20. Awesome article.

    One thing that jumped out at me that may go unnoticed was “…but that we have to make a play for her”. I agree with a lot of what you said, do not worry about whether or not this hot girl likes you, and absolutely go for the girl that you vibe with. As long as you find a girl attractive, the vibe you have with her is the most important thing in my experience.

    But back to “…but that we have to make a play for her” I think this is a great quality for men to have. We absolutely should feel that we need to go approach and talk to women that make out heart flutter, and our words stutter. It’s about finding out if you do vibe with her or not, and living life on this edge of uncertainty that makes it so wonderful.

    So guys, don’t worry if you do not hit it off with a hot girl, because there are lots out there! Just make sure you keep talking to the ones that make you sweat, because when you vibe with a beautiful women…there are few other places I’d rather be.

    • Lolabunny says:

      “because when you vibe with a beautiful women…there are few other places I’d rather be.”
      What about when you vibe with a woman who is smart, sensible, sweet and kind? That woman who loves you but is not that hot? Hotness still beat it, is still the most important?

    • Greg Simms says:

      I agree with your statement 100% 🙂

  21. Love it. As a non-hottie myself, it was mostly my sense of humor, willingness to respect (and even get into) my husband’s “nerdy” hobbies, and the fact that I can debate philosophy for hours that caught my husband’s attention. Which isn’t to say that a hottie can’t be all of those things – they certainly can. But it’s nice for the rest of us when guys notice us as people, instead of just background for the stunning beauties.

    • Greg Simms says:

      Guys do notice, but sometimes, they may be too afraid to let you know that they do. The pressure to ‘attain’ hotties is huge for guys…

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