The type of guy who gets into men’s rights activism is, well, a type: he’s a bit of a slacker, and yet he’s always assumed that he’d come out on top (somehow).
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“The truth is that were ‘redpill’ MRAs really in Keanu Reeves’s shoes they never would have made it out of The Matrix. Seriously, when have they ever believed a black man and a woman telling them their entire reality is an illusion?”—Dan Fincke
“The hunting and trying of witches was,” philosopher Martha Nussbaum maintains, “a common phenomenon throughout the seventeenth century, both in New England and in Europe.” Most of the accused were women. Most of the tortured were women. Most of the executed were women. But you knew that. The image of the most typical victim of a witch-hunt is—sadly, tragically—burned into our collective historical consciousness. What’s far less known is the identity of the accusers. Recent research has shed light on this: “The most typical sort of accuser—the witch’s alleged victim—was,” writes Nussbaum, in Liberty of Conscience (2008), “not a pubescent girl, although Salem has made this case famous. Far more common were accusations by young adult men just setting out in the world to make a life for themselves, and not yet married. (Marriage in New England tended to be late for men, whose fortunes had to be securely established first.) Young men were perhaps the most insecure group in Massachusetts and Connecticut society—expected to become financially secure, but not yet confident in their control over the necessary things in life. In their remarkable and detailed allegations of attacks by a witch, who is said to torment their bodies and control their actions, such young men externalize their own vulnerability. They are not insecure because life is hard: no, it is someone else’s fault, the doing of some stigmatized outsider. If only this person can be removed from the community, they will have the secure control they seek.”
There are some striking similarities between the type of dude that blamed all of his problems on witchcraft in the seventeenth century and the type of dude that blames all of his problems on feminism in the twenty-first century. In Unlocking the Iron Cage: The Men’s Movement, Gender Politics, and American Culture(1996), sociologist Michael Schwalbe maintains that the type of guy who gets into men’s rights activism is, well, a type: he’s a bit of a slacker, not terribly motivated, kind of passive, sort of lazy—and yet he’s always assumed that he’d do well in life. He’s always assumed that he’d come out on top, that things would just fall into place for him. But alas, he finds that he’s pushing 30—or, gasp, maybe even 40—and things still haven’t worked out for him. As one of my buddies put it last year (in all seriousness, after one too many beers): “Sometimes I look around at my life, and I think, fuck, dude, I’m almost 40: WHERE’S MY MONEY AND POWER?!”
The men’s rights movement is not a movement that comprises all types of men. Nor is it a movement that appeals to all men. You won’t find a representative cross-section of men at a typical men’s group meeting. Far from it. Very few men of color present. Very few working-class dudes. Very few recent immigrants. Very few gay dudes. Nope, your garden-variety men’s rights activist (MRA) looks, at least superficially, a whole lot like me: he’s white, middle-class, native-born, and downwardly-mobile. He isn’t doing as well as his parents, and he’s pissed.
There are plenty of plausible explanations for the MRA’s troubles. He could blame capitalism, the stagnant economy, the steep decline in real wages, or the widening gap between rich and poor. He could blame the government. He could blame globalization. All sorts of things really. But the kind of dude that gets off on the men’s rights movement isn’t interested in any of these explanations. Nope, he’d rather blame it all on a witch . . . or a bitch.
Heaven has no rage like self-love to misogyny turned, nor hell a fury like an entitled little asshole scorned.
—John Faithful Hamer, From Here (2015)
And again – a large portion of MRM discourse is not simply “blaming feminism for everything”.
It does however criticise feminism where criticism is long overdue.
Feminism is a part of many of these problems, and like all the other parts of these problems, it is not immune to being called out.
“Feminism is a part of many of these problems, and like all the other parts of these problems, it is not immune to being called out.”
Perhaps not immune but are certainly seldom called out in the main stream. 20% recognize as being f’ ist but they overwhelmingly dominate main stream.
John Anderson, My hats off to you. You attitude is mirrored by many men.
“There are some striking similarities between the type of dude that blamed all of his problems on witchcraft in the seventeenth century and the type of dude that blames all of his problems on feminism in the twenty-first century.” As opposed to the type of chick who blames all of her problems on patriarchy. ““Sometimes I look around at my life, and I think, fuck, dude, I’m almost 40: WHERE’S MY MONEY AND POWER?!” After all, feminists told him he was “privileged” and didn’t have to work for it. He should spend his time elevating the “marginalized” like women. He… Read more »
“As opposed to the type of chick who blames all of her problems on patriarchy.”
Right?
Again, Scott Alexander’s point seems rather apt here.
When women claim to have issues, people listen.
When men claim to have issues, people mock.
According to Colorado Child Custody FAX, I found this. (Doesn’t sound like they are simply pushing 50/50) The judge must allocate parenting time according to the child’s best interests. Colorado law sets out a list of factors for the judge to consider. Along with the child’s preference and the child’s relationship with each parent, the court will look at: – what the parents want – the child’s adjustment to his or her school, community, and home – the physical and mental health of parents and child (however, the court may not deny parenting time simply because a parent has a… Read more »
Dude, I just lived it. Normally the lawyers negotiate the Parenting Plan, if they cannot come to agreement, the court gets it. Then, depending how vindictive and wealthy the divorcing couple is/are, the attorneys request home studies, psych evaluations, etc. But the judge doesn’t have to follow any of the recommendations. The judge in our case, and the two previous cases (as I sat there waiting, my former husband was late to court), the judge sermonized that men must be fathers, parenting time be split equally. Financial details were not revealed, the two previous cases had come to terms. In… Read more »
@ Lara 50/50 is a good starting point and a good standard and it should be what the courts strive for. To assume differently would be to assume that a parent is unfit and we all know which parent that assumption would fall on. That’s why father’s rights organizations push for equal parenting. The problem in your case was that the judge, though it appears he could have, did not stray from the standard given the evidence. Most guys I know in the MRM aren’t advocating for an automatic 50/50 split regardless of the circumstances of a case. What they… Read more »
John, sorry, perhaps I wasn’t clear in the details. The judge wasn’t following standards in absence of evidence. The way divorce court works is you file a Parenting Plan that specifies what you both agree to; the judge can modify it, but doesn’t usually. My former husband and I put down 2 nights a month, and some vacation. Not because it would happen, but so that it would go through without question (we represented ourselves.) The judge saw this paltry amount of time and immediately wanted to change it to 50/50 with reconciliation therapy. The last thing I wanted to… Read more »
Iara, I understand what you’re saying and it appears that your judge, perhaps well intended, is obviously off the mark. And although the goal is that there be 50/50, it doesn’t appear to be looking at what the courts should be looking at.
Watch me blow this entire article out of the water with one link and one sentence.
Here we go:
“The largest Men’s Rights Organization is in INDIA.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights_movement_in_India
That actually only serves as more evidence for the article. India right now has more men than women, leading to insecure and vulnerable men.
Given current legal settings in India men have good reason to be afraid and so do their parents and siblings.
Without the men’s right’s movement, I wouldn’t even have the option to be the father I am today, and my children would not have the option of having me in their life.
My experience with the MRM does not match up well with the ad hominem in this opinion piece.
STRAWMAN HOOOOO!!!!!!
So is the MRM just a thorn in the side of feminism or a real political impediment? The article shows an interesting comparison, but it would also just seem to feed the problem. This is just more bulletin board material, but if they’re just losers with no power who cares.
Losers …. not from what I’ve seen but as long as main stream media continues to cater to the fe m inists, well, what can I say? But at some point it’s all gonna break lose.
The reasons for men joining MRM are many, but the main reasons tend to be unfair marital/divorce/child custody laws, the sense that political and economic elites on the left and right don’t work for the best interests of the average man, and the endless identity politics that centers on putting all of the failings and problems on the average man. Men have a right to talk, complain, and agitate for issues affecting us. Especially when No one else is going to do. and NO the elite 1% men at the top politically and economically don’t and never have represented even… Read more »
Divorce/child custody in Colorado is not unfair. Currently the court wants to see a 50/50 split of assets and 50/50 split of parenting time. Child support is set by formula, and in no way covers actual expenses. Separate maintenance is not common, and mothers with young children are expected to get their butts back out in the workforce. I was the wife who made quite a bit from my company and my husband still expected me to care for children and house (I hired help, with my income.) My former husband made out like a bandit in the divorce. The… Read more »
Iara, you are truly not the average.To say that the courts want 50/50 is absurd at best. Statistics prove those numbers wrong.
And BTW, fathers rights moved off that mark some time ago and went into the direction of “parents” rights, recognizing the issues you just mentioned. The motivation of the groups was not just dad’s rights but what the kids deserved.
I can only imagine the horror my childhood would have been if the courts forced me to spend time with my father. Automatic 50/50 is wrong on so many levels. It is a good starting point, but shouldn’t be the standard. Kids deserve to not be forced to spend time with abusive neglectful parents. Decisions should be based on character, not titles. No child should be forced to interact with any person who is abusive/neglectful just because that person happens to share DNA with that child. that’s raising the parents’ rights of “ownership” over the child’s rights. 50/50 is dangerous… Read more »
Thank you, no, it was not the average situation. Moreover my ex-husband demanded we do it pro se because he ‘hated lawyers’ (again, not average considering all the moving parts.) He also initiated and filed for divorce. In drafting all the paperwork (he made me do it, which is kind of funny when you think about it) I consulted high powered local divorce attorneys. According to them, no matter the circumstances (20 years, documented domestic violence on the kids and I, clear financial accounting and his misdeeds) the most the court would ever go for in asset division was 65%:… Read more »
In addition, I just reviewed the first 4 websites listed for father’s rights. Admittedly I may be missing the true representation of this movement, but what I saw was no different that what I’ve seen in the past. There was no mention of parents rights. I’m neither in the camp of women or men on this issue. What I believe in is that there are good people on both sides and the discussion should move towards everyone striving to be excellent spouses, excellent ex-spouses, and excellent parents. As it is now, high conflict people and the personality disordered are being… Read more »
I didn’t have to look too far …
http://www.fathers-4-justice.org/our-campaign/our-campaigns/#equal-parenting
http://www.fathersforjustice.org/content/kids-need-both-mom-and-dads
http://www.fathersforjustice.org/content/free-download-constitutional-rights-non-custodial-parent
http://www.fathersforjustice.org/content/free-download-parental-alienation
https://nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/286-fathers-4-justice-ca
And by “Men’s hour”
http://men.typepad.com/mens_hour/fathers_4_justice/
Tom, you and I are miles apart in our understanding and my actual experience. In the state of Colorado, at least as of now, all that Fathers 4 Justice are wanting is standard in the court. Other than marijuana, we’re not a progressive state. I have to imagine this is also policy in many other places. What I’m talking about is sane, excellent fathers and mothers, neither side pitted against one another. If your starting point is men versus women, this is a problem. Fathers 4 Justice is oddly victim oriented, men as victims. That’s never a healthy thing or… Read more »
Interesting, funny, maybe not so much considering my ex is in sort of MRM, certainly blaming everyone and everything but himself, very much Entitlement-prone, a victim type of personality, disappionted….”where is my money and power!?” (Mind you never was willing to work for either) …oh….almost forgot….I am the witch or bitch he tells everyone about, ha! Poor fella, really,…..with this mindset he’ll push 50 soon, then 60 and maybe will wake up,….”shit, I screwd up,…I think!” 😉 I guess not everyone is born to survive or thrive, maybe some just to live in vegetable state. Sad really, but you can’t… Read more »
Or he joins IS The Islamic state…….where girls as young as nine years old are sold as sex slaves to these men. I say no more.
Downward social mobility yes,until you got the great idea to travel to jihad and be a member of the Islamic state. There are not the same back ground factors, but still they have some similarities. Research reports look at who travel from abroad and joins the Islamic state.