Shawn Maxam finally separates the boys from the men.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.
-Abraham Lincoln
I just had an intense anxiety attack. I realized that becoming a man is a very terrifying prospect which is why so many males still act like boys. If you have low expectations for yourself or create an image of immaturity and lack of commitment than why would anyone else in your life expect more? Why are people “supposedly” so disappointed in President Obama? It is because they had high expectations for him which he himself created.
Real men are mature men. They are men of character. Men who operate on a set of principles that revolve around dignity, integrity, empathy, honesty and compassion. To commit to being that kind of man is extremely difficult especially if you weren’t raised with a proper example. I want to be the best man I can be even though I’m not always sure what that even means. It’s this weird abstract idea. An ideal that I have to somehow embody and manifest into a tangible reality. For those who want to join me than they can start here:
- Boys objectify women. Men admire the beauty of women.
- Boys can make children. Men want to raise children.
- A Boy tries to impress his friends. A Man only needs to impress himself (self-validation).
- Boys like to talk. Men know it’s important to listen.
- Boys have temper tantrums. Men control their tempers.
- Boys are mad at the world. Men acknowledge that we live in a mad world.
- Boys are concerned with what they can get. Men are concerned with what they can give.
- Boys cheat, lie to their wives and disappoint their kids. Men practice discipline, will-power and abide by their word.
- Boys hit defenseless men, women and children. Men hit no one.
- Boys want others to fear them. Men are brave enough to face their own fears.
Basically I’m just fucking tired of people shitting on men. Those aren’t men. They are boys. Now of course a man will make a mistake. But he won’t repeatedly make the same mistake. Your gender does not define who you are or what you can or have to be. You would laugh if I said that regarding your race or ethnicity. Men don’t have to cheat, abuse their power, create war, hurt women and children etc. We don’t have to be the worst of our ourselves. Stop using the fact that you have a dick to be one. Grow-the-hell-up. Be a man (pun-intended).
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
-Martin Luther King, Jr.
Please share this with friends, enemies and temporary allies alike.
Thanks for reading, sharing and commenting!
R.I.P. SKH
About S. Maxam
There are some times where you just have to hit someone, so I wouldn’t say real men don’t hit, but only hit when justified (self-defense).
Agreed.
This “Good people (men) hurts no one” idea, taken to its extreme, is unbalanced.
It leads to weak, fearful and neurotic men, who can’t be assertive and stand for themselves (and, BTW, no woman is attracted to that kind of man). It’s “emasculating”.
IMHO, a good man can defend himself (even using violence, when necessary) or someone in need, can assert himself (even when someone might be pissed off), can say what he thinks (even when this annoys someone else).
The problem with lists like the above, they tend to be absolute (black/white, right/wrong). While life is, most often than not, relative, complex and even contradictory.
Apart from this criticism, I like this article, and I mostly agree with the list.
Except for item #2: not all men (nor women) want to raise children.
Those who don’t, are not less men (or women) because of that. We’re much more than our biology is for.
“Boys can make children. Men want to raise children.”
A man will take some responsibility for birth control so wanting to raise children doesn’t always factor into the equation. When a woman has an abortion against a man’s wishes, where does that put his wanting to raise children?
“Boys have temper tantrums. Men control their tempers.”
Controlling one’s emotions has always been considered a trait of masculinity, but probably isn’t all that healthy. Men should recognize anger and control the way it’s displayed not the anger itself. My taekwondo instructor taught turn anger into spirit. Direct it toward something good and let it fuel your efforts.
“Boys are mad at the world. Men acknowledge that we live in a mad world.”
Men or at least good men try to change it for the better. They try to make it sane.
“Boys hit women and children. Men hit no one.”
Men also will not accept being hit as a valid response not even from women. They also stand up for those weaker than they.
Totally agree that there is nuance when we discuss the traits of men but in this instance I was saying men take ownership and are responsible for themselves. Just provided examples. Not rules just subjective examples.
thanks for the comments John, Valter and Archy.
No problems, thanks for the article.
This article rubbed me the wrong way in several ways.
It is yet another “real man” article. I effing hate that expression. A man is a man. There are no non-real men unless you count things like the male RealDoll models. Aspiring to be a good man, the best man one can be is all well and good. That is a journey one should embark on, but its destination is out of reach (who can with their hand on their heart say that they are the best they can be, that there is nothing left to improve?).
The list is just silly (simplistic, dogmatic) as well and I’ll be a cranky old boy (not man, see #10) and provide my slightly assholic deconstruction of it:
1) Gay men who are “meh…” about female beauty – are they not real men, only boys?
2) Are men who wish to remain childless/child-free not real men?
3) Is there really any persons who never feels the need to impress others? Really? Guess I can count out any sales-persons as real men then.
4) There is nothing wrong with liking to talk. In fact talking more would improve a lot of mens’ life. An “as well” at the end of “men know it’s important to listen” could’ve improved this point.
5) Yeah, we can’t have any of that angry man shit – better bottle it up, that’s healthy.
6) Yeah, just take any shit lobbied at you by the mad world rather than getting mad (se #6) for any injustices. C’est la vie.
7) Yes, no need to concern yourself about what(if anything) you get in return for what you provide for your country, your employer, your spouse etc.
8) Cheating and lying is not good things, but neither of them makes one not a man. Bill Clinton is still considered a man as far as I can see.
9) Mohammed Ali, http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S2563660.shtml etc. Examples are countless.
10) I have acrophobia and I hire people to do my roof-works rather than go up there myself. I guess that makes me not a man then.
And then we have the use of the word boy as a perjorative – as a label on those who fail to be real men according to some ill-defined standard. I have a soon to be 4 year old boy and I for that simple reason resent the use of boy in a perjorative sense. If assholes are boys then what does that make my boy?!
Tamen obviously the article is a contrast between men and boys based upon patriarchal heteronormative standards. And I was generalizing on purpose.
Number two for example isn’t about men who don’t choose to have children. I don’t have any kids.
It’s making the distinction about guys who are just “sperm donors but absentee fathers” and men who actually raise their children.
Of course there are exceptions but that is not how we talk about things if we just speak about the outliers.
thanks for the comment and insight.
Shawn: “patriarchal heteronormative standards”
This is your mistake right here: Looking at what is unhealthy for a man from theory instead of simple human standards. You are aware theories like this are heavily slanted towards making women feel better and not making men themselves feel better right?
Especially #2 here:
““Boys hit women and children. Men hit no one.”
Here’s a question and I want you to answer it:
Suppose a woman (spouse, girlfriend) gets violent with her man and refuses to stop? Or takes it further and grabs a life-threatening weapon to do the job for her? Your insistence that men who hit are boys is a very dangerous standard to push in this situation.
So what should he do then according to you if, as you say, boys hit women and children and men hit no one? If there’s no alternative left?
Eagle obviously if you are in danger then hey protect yourself. I wasn’t referring to dangerous extremes. Again generalizing.
Again the list is flawed. But did no one see this:
Boys are concerned with what they can get. Men are concerned with what they can give.
If we want to discuss power dynamics and gender norms there are tons of other great posts on this site and are wonderful authors like Michel Foucault or Paulo Freire.
Thanks for your comment. I appreciate it.
Shawn: “Boys are concerned with what they can get. Men are concerned with what they can give.”
Again, give to whom? Are we talking women, themselves, what?
The reason I ask this is because, far too many times, when people talk about men defying traditional gender roles or giving back, it’s always coaxed with the fine print that they do it in the name of women or feminism. Never in the name of themselves.
Plus, anyone talks about men being restricted in their rigid gender roles, blaming them is snuck in there at some point even if it’s not overt.
“And I was generalizing on purpose.
Number two for example isn’t about men who don’t choose to have children. I don’t have any kids.”
IMO this is the exception and not the rule. When you consider all the men who parent their children, when you consider all the men who want to parent their children, but are prevented from doing so because of bias in family court and the disdain government has shown for enforcing visitation orders and when you factor in men who did not want to be fathers, but didn’t have the same option of abortion or unilateral adoption that the mothers had or the sperm donors who the women knew and agreed wouldn’t parent, you have a very small minority of individuals. You are talking about the outliers. The vast majority of men who wanted children would parent them if given the opportunity, but maybe it’s easier to stereotype instead of advocating for solutions.
I forgot to mention the men and boys who were raped by women. Some people have even advocated that they pay their rapist child support, which some have been ordered to do.
I agree that family court is biased towards women and mothers. And that men don’t have certain rights pertaining to abortion.
Regarding the courts I was raised in a single-mother household with a total of six kids. There were three different fathers including my own. None of them wanted to pay child support. There is a whole bracket of society who are irresponsible for a variety of reasons.
Regarding reproductive rights: My 1st wife had an abortion without my consent. This topic is difficult because it is still the woman’s body. So I have no idea how to solve that issue and I won’t pretend to. But I empathize because it happened to me.
Male privilege is disproportional to female rights. Doesn’t mean we can’t question the rational of certain women’s rights but this is akin to trying to diminish the dominance of white privilege by discussing the existence of HBCUs or something.
I’m not in the habit in engaging in the Oppression Olympics John. Shit sucks for all of us. We do the work we can to make the world better.
Good luck and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Shawn: “Male privilege is disproportional to female rights. Doesn’t mean we can’t question the rational of certain women’s rights but this is akin to trying to diminish the dominance of white privilege by discussing the existence of HBCUs or something. ”
And you’ve lost me completely with this.
Not all males have the kind of privilege your theories postulate. Even if they did, it’s offset by the price they pay for it. Especially when they’ve been seriously hurt themselves.
And don’t use the term “White Male” in a negative connotation or even bother with the term “White Privilege”. It’s not inclusive one bit and has been used to shut down all debate.
Sorry but those terms rile me up.
You should get riled up. Eagle we lived in a country based upon patriarchal heteronormative Judeo-Christian values. So the privilege is ascribed in that manner.
A Arab Muslim man can be racially profiled by the NYPD. Here he is being oppressed. Then he can then also within his community enforce the norms of his religion therefore oppressing his wife, sons and daughters.
I am just saying power exist on a spectrum that is affected by context. Privilege just like all “isms” are institutionalized.
So we strive for equity and equality but I am sure you are one person so you have to pick the battles you are passionate about.
I am glad to be discussing this with you.
Shawn: “You should get riled up”
No offense, Shawn, but I don’t need you dictating what issues I should get riled up about. Nor do I need you forcing me to get riled up over the theories you present.
I only get riled up in terms of supports, or lack thereof, for men like me who have been seriously hurt by women and girls either in their youth or nowadays. This is the only major issue I get riled up about and am focusing energy on. Which is why I find the terms “Male Privilege” and “White Privilege” offensive. The men who are hurt make up a variety of creeds and races.
This example about a Muslim being oppressed on one hand and oppressive in another, are you actually comparing it to my plight? Sounds like you’re saying “you may have struggles but in the end, you benefit from oppressive structures”. As if you expect that the minute I come home, I’ll hit my wife or berate them (I’m not married by the way). If that’s what you’re implying, then I’m not going to listen to your theories anymore. Seriously, I don’t need it.
Let me give you an example about terms and labels:
I’m also autistic but do you see me going around labeling every person who isn’t Autistic “Neurotypical”? Hell no, because I realize how it’s no better than when autistic people were labeled “Retarded”. It’s offensive and exclusionary. If I want people to listen to me, riling them up in ways you do is counterproductive.
Shawn: “So we strive for equity and equality but I am sure you are one person so you have to pick the battles you are passionate about. ”
I strive for equality in areas that need it. But I also take care not to treat every theory as an absolute. Nor push people away either unless they’ve earned my ire.
Anyway, nice try. But you push it over the top, in my opinion.
Before you say that I don’t know oppression, I’ve been through some major traumas in my life as a youth where people treated me like garbage because of the label “Autism”. Both genders I might add.
Okay I should have said it is okay to be riled up if you want.
Eagle you seem to want every statement qualified. That isn’t how people talk in most of the situations I am in. I never claimed to be an expert. I am just guy who has Bipolar who is writing about his life experiences. It is okay if you don’t agree with me.
In terms of the privilege debate there is tons of academic literature about this. And you as an autistic person you get oppressed. All people with cognitive impairments, brain disorders (like me with Bipolar Disorder), learning disabilities do.
Why do we have disability acts and the civil rights acts and are striving for marriage equality if there isn’t inequity in this country. Again we don’t have to agree on the existence of privilege.
It seems like the medium of exchanging comments on website is limiting. I own that. But I am glad you have been willing to participate.
Shawn: “In terms of the privilege debate there is tons of academic literature about this. And you as an autistic person you get oppressed. All people with cognitive impairments, brain disorders (like me with Bipolar Disorder), learning disabilities do.”
Then what good is privledge then? Why should I read tons of academic literature that basically accuses me, a “White priveledged male” of benefiting from oppressions of women when I too get oppressed in areas as well as you say?
That’s my issue and the reason why I avoid those theories like the plague. They are exclusionary. Period.
Understood Eagle. thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts.
“None of them wanted to pay child support.”
My point being that I don’t know how many of them wanted to have the children in the first place. When men have legitimate options besides keep it in your pants like women do then you can gripe about how men don’t live up to their responsibilities. How many guys said I’ll support your decision because they knew their opinion didn’t matter? There has to be a legitimate option before you can make that determination. When paternal consent is required to adopt a child then let’s talk about men being irresponsible. I mean establishing paternity so the actual father has to agree to it. Not having a woman choose a guy she knows doesn’t want the kid and get him to waive his rights to it or simply not challenge it hoping that the actual father doesn’t find out in time or give the same right to the father to unilaterally adopt out her child.
How is there male privilege when women can on their sole whim cause another person to be financially responsible for another human being for at least 18 years or could on their own whim deny the other person the opportunity to parent their child (I’m talking about unilateral adoption and abortion). When you throw out terms like privilege, you’re already playing the oppression Olympics. You just don’t realize it. It makes it worse when you have the privilege actually reversed.
I’m not saying you’re a bad guy. I’m saying that your position is misguided.
P.S. I was raised by a single mom too. My father died when I was two. I never knew him. I just have my mom and oldest brother’s stories and know that they loved him dearly. After work he would ask my mom if I had gone out. If she said no, he didn’t yell at her. He just put me in my stroller and we went for a walk. I don’t have a problem with single mothers and know what it’s like not to have a father around, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want men treated fairly.
My condolences about your dad John. My brother was murdered nearly six years ago and my nephew is now fatherless. I hope to provide some surrogate support to my nephew.
As I said to Eagle privilege exists on a spectrum within different circumstances. Several months ago I was harassed by the cops while waiting for my wife in the car.This has happened all my life because I am Black. Yet as a straight man I have the privilege to get married. So I can be oppressed in one context and have privilege in another.
No offense taken John. I think we are disagreeing about certain points with civility. I appreciate that.
Why did you use patriarchal heteronormative standards as basis for your comparison between “boys and men” (immature men and good men)? Do you really think that is a good framework to confine all men (at least everyone who qualifies as real men) in?
You said you were generalizing on purpose, to exactly what purpose?
I use those norms because I’m a straight Caribbean male and won’t pretend to be an expert in anyone’s experience but my own. I also thought the big quote about character clarified this. Maybe not.
I was generalizing because honestly that is what all lists do. I just wanted to start a conversation. We can’t always wait for perfect conditions to do these things. As you said this is really about immature men vs good men. But framing it that way doesn’t necessarily get most people to read it and think about it.
Language is flawed and limited just like people. Me included.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
9.Boys hit women and children. Men hit no one.
I know its been said you were generalizing (and I can understand you would since you really can’t speak for all boys and men) but this makes me pause for a bit.
Why is it that even in this age of supposed “its wrong to hit anyone” we still pretend that the only bad hitting that’s going on is when males hit women and children?
This really couldn’t have been, “Boys hit everyone. Men hit no one”?
Danny: “This really couldn’t have been, “Boys hit everyone. Men hit no one”?
Doesn’t improve anything, Danny, because what happens when a woman becomes violent to her spouse and won’t stop? What if she grabs a weapon to do the job?
I’d prefer it if it said “Boys hit everyone. Men hit only when in serious danger.”
Danny and Eagle I am speaking to certain demographic who are unaware of nuance. Many of my peers. Males of color from Brooklyn engage in physical abusive behaviors toward their partners.
We can look at the Chris Brown and Rihanna situation as an example.
Now of course you should defend yourself. But for most folks serious danger is very subjective. People within my community pick on those that are weaker than them. But just for you guys I am gonna slightly alter it.
Males of color from Brooklyn engage in physical abusive behaviors toward their partners.
And that is not the only violence going on that male of color engage in. A lot of the violent crime against black males is committed by black males and it seems that this violence comes from the belief that violence is power.
So if we are going to talk about the violence that men of color commit again I ask, why ignore certain types and highlight others?
We can look at the Chris Brown and Rihanna situation as an example.
Sure let’s look at it. When that story first broke I recall there being mention that Rihanna actually hit him first. Now mind you I don’t know how true that is but what I do know is how quickly that was quashed as “not mattering” in a rush to paint it up as an assault. Well if it were true that she hit him first and then he went off on her then wouldn’t that make it a matter of saying that Brown didn’t just assault her out of the blue but went overboard protecting himself?
People within my community pick on those that are weaker than them.
I can’t speak on your community but is it really the case that women and children are the only ones that targeted as being weaker?
I know you weren’t trying to make hard and fast rules set in stone but it’s just odd to me that in a post about how boys need to become men you didn’t mention “men” (or as you call them, boys) being violent amongst themselves.
Thanks for hearing us out.
Yup Danny that isn’t the only type of violence. Black male on Black male violence is a huge issue but that has many pathologies I didn’t want to engage in. It’s been discussed ad nausea and folks still have to make choices. The guy who murdered my brother chose to shoot him.
Regarding Rihanna and Brown. He wasn’t in danger. If he was hit first then he should have defended himself, got out the car and called the police. But he did not. From this incident among others it seems he has anger issues and to me is a coward. He didn’t go overboard protecting himself. After he threatened to kill her he was no longer protecting himself.
But overall you are right Danny women and children aren’t the only weak ones. So I changed number nine. I agree it still isn’t perfect though.
Thanks for the conversation.
Regarding Rihanna and Brown. He wasn’t in danger. If he was hit first then he should have defended himself, got out the car and called the police. But he did not. From this incident among others it seems he has anger issues and to me is a coward. He didn’t go overboard protecting himself. After he threatened to kill her he was no longer protecting himself.
I’m sorry but unless there is some proof that she didn’t hit him first then yes there is a chance that he went overboard. I agree that even if she did hit him first he didn’t have to do all that to her. But again the idea that she might have hit first wasn’t quieted with “but the reports say….” but with “IT DOESN”T MATTER HE ASSAULTED HER!!!!”.
I think it does. Yes he has anger problems but who is to say that his anger problems didn’t lead him to going too far after the initial self defense rather than just pretending that this was an unprovoked assault. (It may have been an unprovoked assault, I’m just talking about how quickly it was declared it was such and how harshly any mention of her attacking first was silenced.)
Thanks for the conversation.
Likewise.