Uncle Woofie fights the menacing concept of male privilege—with a little help from Captain America.
Marvel Comics fans eagerly anticipate each movie release about our favorite characters, but there is fear stalking that anticipation. This fear we Marvel fans have comes from scripting and directorial choices made for no other reason than the urge screenwriters and directors have in putting “their” stamp on the character and story when they know full well that’s not what the fans plunk down cold hard cash to see.
All is not lost. The flip-side of that fear can also lead to genuine delight when directors and writers take the source material and highlight worthwhile things that were always there, but nobody gave serious thought to exploring or enhancing. It is the core reason I was so happy about the ‘Cap’ movie. Really happy. Joe Johnston, as the director, and the screenwriters he worked with, along with the cast, turned in a movie that accomplished that elusive goal.
Steve Rogers as we first see him in this movie is the perfect example of why having male privilege rammed down our collective male throats is so despicable. All it takes for the concept of male privilege to burst like a fragile soap-bubble is to pay attention to what sickly, emaciated Steve Rogers’ life was like when we first encounter him in this movie; since men that are like Steve Rogers exist everywhere. Men bully him because they can. Women see a physically undesirable example of a potential husband, boy friend, or even casual date. On a double-date to a futuristic World’s Fair-style exhibition with an enlisted friend, Roger’s girl essentially abandons him. See any male privilege evident there?
Even Peter Parker has a better track record than sickly Steve Rogers at this point. After all, girls will at least talk to Parker, occasionally.
Enter Dr. Erskine, the scientist that invents the Super-Soldier process. The good Doctor has no doubt his experiment will work, so for him, that’s old business. His chief concern now is finding a good man to responsibly wield what his Super-Soldier process has to offer. Dr. Erskine meets Rogers at the exhibition recruitment station. Dr. Erskine asks Rogers why he’s so keen on enlisting to fight the Nazis; his answer is, “I don’t like bullies.” Dr. Erskine has found his good man. All poor Steve Rogers knows at the moment is he’s finally, somehow, managed to get accepted into the Army. He gets his chance to contribute, which he wanted for so long.
Dr. E then gets the scrawny young man into the program, up against other men in the test platoon that Dr. Erskine himself describes as “bullies”. Steve Rogers barely perseveres during advanced basic training, but distinguishes himself nonetheless while still a 4-F reject in soldier’s fatigues. The gorgeous, intimidating Peggy Carter, also with Erskine’s project, accompanies Rogers as they ride to the clandestine lab where the experiment is to happen. She has a look of sad incredulity as Rogers describes Brooklyn by using all the locations he’d been beaten up as “landmarks” in his personal map of his own neighborhood.
Male privilege … yeah … right.
Erskine is killed, the Super-Serum lost. All the American government can find for this perfect super-soldier to do after that is to act as the propaganda creation “Captain America,” touting a War Bond drive, punching out a fake Hitler over, and over, and over again in front of a chorus line of dancing girls at every stop. Even more humiliation is heaped on him when he’s forced to perform in front of battle-hardened soldiers when the tour heads overseas to England. He understandably gets laughed and booed off stage.
♦◊♦
I could have accepted the idea that Cap seized the opportunity that Peggy Carter offers him to rescue (against orders of course) Allied soldiers imprisoned by the Red Skull’s HYDRA minions, because by beating the shit out of an enemy that truly deserved it, he wouldn’t explode after all he’s endured by now. Immediately following that successful adventure, Cap keeps an enhanced battle worthy version (courtesy of Tony Stark’s daddy, Howard; a neat touch by the way) of the rather ridiculous bond drive costume as well as his iconic, round shield. This is one of the earliest examples of the concept of “In your FACE, assholes”; a lesser known facet of the “American Way” that Clark Kent just doesn’t talk about.
Well, except for Batman maybe, he’s never in a good mood.
Seriously, the good men that the pre-“Cap” Steve Rogers character represents exist; and they can be good men regardless of the size of the mortal shell they live in. The struggles they endure finding a place for themselves in the world, make the claim of male privilege so stupidly weak and intellectually counterfeit that it’s rendered inert and useless. Add to that the rapidly dissolving middle class, and what you can easily be left with is very little privilege for any of us, regardless of gender. Privilege, earned or otherwise, has taken flight to the upper registers of the wealthy, also known as One Percent Land. All of that is in the future, as far as the time-line of this movie is concerned; except for Cap, ironically. He will awaken from his Arctic Circle Rip Van Winkle womb seventy-odd years into the future, to a present-day world filled with an entire social stratum of economic before versions of Steve Rogers.
They were once known as middle-class working men and women.
So, by the end of the movie, good men triumph, but not without supreme sacrifice; a good woman grieves for a good man lost to her, not knowing he’s still alive, dormant under an ice shelf … the Red Skull, HYDRA, and male privilege gets its ass kicked. It was a busy day.
Not to mention we now know the fictionally possible, utterly cool, secret origin of the Frisbee. The Frisbee is something else with far more usefulness than the concept of male privilege.
—Photo Guto Xavier/Flickr
If you can’t see the male privilege inherent in Uncle Woofie’s story, try applying the Bechdel Test to it.
Why would a discussion of a male protagonist’s struggles with male problems invoke a test about how many female characters are given preferential treatment?
This article is about Steve Rogers and what he went through. Take the Bechdel nonsense elsewhere, please.
Because, Copyleft, the Bechdel Test demonstrates that Uncle Woofie’s comic books and beloved heroes, at least every one he’s mentioned here, are male characters.
Oh shock, oh horrors…!!! I haven’t devoted any time to female heroes…!!! Just be grateful I don’t hit you with an ass-load of url’s from other GMP articles that reminds everyone that this is a site discussing men, their stories and issues, not necessarily women fictional characters or otherwise. Tell ya what…as soon as something crops up that is as easily identifiable to all as a current, popular movie (based onna comics character or not) and has unique elements that suit themselves to current gender arguments over a concept that is as tugged and chewed over as ‘male privilege’ is,… Read more »
Yes, and we’re discussing male characters here in this column. We are not discussing female characters. Nor are we discussing low-carb cooking, UFO sightings, or the Republican primaries. For once the spotlight is NOT on female issues and the female experience. I fail to see the problem.
…I really do not understand how you’ve used Captain America – the character and in particular the movie to of all things – to attempt to discredit the concept of male privilege. In the movie – What was it you saw that showed such equality, the abundance of female characters? The obviously equal gender roles and power? The obsticles he clearly had to overcome with regards to solely his gender/sex when negotiating the world? [hint – these questions are all asked with pointed sarcasm] Because really, of all the movies you could have picked Look at the one defined female… Read more »
“I know it can be hard to hear the word privilege and not feel rebuked” – yes. I know it makes me feel uncomfortable and defensive. The thing is, just because something gives me an understandable emotional reaction doesn’t mean the concept is invalid – I just means I’m reacting exactly as I would expect if I actually was being confronted with my privilege. The important thing is for men to get past this, and to realise that just because it has ‘male’ in the title, it’s really not about us. Thanks for the post.
” I just means I’m reacting exactly as I would expect if I actually was being confronted with my privilege” The old “you’re being defensive because your guilty (of the accusation)” catch-22. The thing is, you would ALSO react that same way if the accusation WAS invalid, or at the very least, dishonest. What this article said to me wasn’t what so many of the heralder’s of male privilege are claiming in these comments. It doesn’t say men never had privilege, it’s saying that privilege came with a price. Just as the other article (female privilege) doesn’t deny men had/have… Read more »
Mark – be glad to. Unfortunately it’s (very) late here, so I must be brief. As for as I understand it, feminists don’t use “male privilege” to mean something about gender roles, or rights and responsibilities of the same, but to indicate all the subtle ways in which our world is organised to suit men: where men can take stuff for granted that women can’t, and be given stuff (perhaps small stuff, like attention, or professional respect) without asking that women have to demand or show themselves “worthy” of. And probably be labelled “uppity” in the process. Male privilege is… Read more »
“As for as I understand it, feminists don’t use “male privilege” to mean something about gender roles, or rights and responsibilities of the same, but to indicate all the subtle ways in which our world is organised to suit men:” Except they do. The gender pay gap is often attributed as a male privilege. the fact most politicians are male is also considered a male privilege. The concept of male privilege is often used (in my experience) as a method to try and undermine my credibility rather than my arguments (“you just don’t see your own privilege”), or as a… Read more »
Mark, thanks for your reply. To try to answer some of your salient points: “Feminists do talk about gender roles as male privilege.” – you know, I’m guilty of doing what I set out to avoid, which is telling feminists what their definitions mean. I’m sure some do – no-one ever accused feminism of presenting a united front! The bit that I was interested in, that resonated with me, was the idea that there’s a lot of things in life that men can take for granted – like not being judged on their looks, to take a quoted example –… Read more »
“I’m sure some do – no-one ever accused feminism of presenting a united front! ” That’s a cop out. Your assertion was that male privilege wasn’t about men. I’ve shown that, at least when some feminists use it (and you can see it a lot in the comments section of a few recent articles), and do so in a way to blame men, try to guilt them and certain to target men specifically, meaning it IS about men. If feminism is a unified front, then stop talking for other feminists. ” was the idea that there’s a lot of things… Read more »
That was my reaction as well. If you object to an accusation and are immediately told “You’re just in denial because you don’t want your privilege threatened and can’t see the truth,” then there’s really no point in conversing any further, is there? You’re facing dogma, not facts.
That sort of debate-stopping tactic is common among dogmatists, but it doesn’t make their accusations true. “Denial is proof of guilt” went out with the Red Scare.
That argument is just as invalid as “you’re just using a shaming tactic, so I can safely disregard what you’re trying to say.” Two sides of the same coin.
If you’re interested in the truth, you have to go beyond both. But that involves listening to what women are saying when they talk about privilege.
“Two sides of the same coin.” Not really. Shaming tactics can very well be concrete. Being called angry, bitter or “you must have been hurt by a woman” rather than addressing ones points is clearly and demonstrability a shaming tactic, and it intended to end the conversation (by silencing the opposition), so from that point on, that person can be disregarded, because that was their intention. Meanwhile, accusing someone of being blind to their own privilege requires one subscribe to the theory of male privilege in the same way feminists do. As discussed above, myself and many others don’t deny… Read more »
Time to cut to the chase. I think the root of our disagreement is this: you don’t believe that there exists an imbalance of power in society along gender lines. The “define male privilege” thing is a red herring, because if you take this as true then you can’t by definition accept any definition which doesn’t completely miss the point, as far as I am concerned. Yes, I accept instances of female privilege do exist. In fact, this was accepted by the first feminist writer I found when googling it. However, as they point out, most of what is described… Read more »
And if you can’t see male disposability as the underlying attitude that permits such ‘voluntary’ policies, then you’re entitled to that point of view as well. But it doesn’t make you right.
Of COURSE society is sexist. But it’s silly to pretend that it’s sexist in only one direction, and always due to, or to the benefit of, men.
“I think the root of our disagreement is this: you don’t believe that there exists an imbalance of power in society along gender lines.” No, the root of our disagreement comes from you and other feminists insisting women begin at a point of weakness, of oppression, and men in the position of power, and then proceed to examine only male privilege and female limitations/responsabilities/problems. When it is pointed out that men have limitations/responsabilities/problems, they are dismissed by comments like “well, that’s a result of the patriarchy, the patriarchy hurts both genders, thus using the assumption of male power to deminishing… Read more »
Ahhh, Ms. Geekgirl….no one enjoys a heapin’ helpin’ of sarcasm as much as I do…! Also, I must thank you for proving what I had to say to the unfortunate, elitist commenter who couldn’t be bothered to elaborate on his dismissive declaration concerning all of us…! Regardless of the hour, you poured so much effort into your commentary that you deserve a gen-u-ine, (even though he didn’t invent ‘Cap’) Stan Lee-authorized No-Prize (handed out to letters-page contributors that Stan Lee was either impressed with or had caught him inna plot-flub in one of the books)…! As the old “Ronco” veggie… Read more »
So why don’t YOU enlighten us as to the errors of our ways…? Or, at the very least your reasons why we’re simply operating from ‘anger’ as you say…
…or does your hit-and-run pot-shot (with NO explanation) betray how tired YOU are?
One more thing…
Before you get the erroneous idea that my “feelings” as the author of this piece are hurt by your pot-shot…think again.
My comment was in defense of everyone else who commented on this article, regardless of what they thought of it. They actually took time time and patience to explain why they felt that way and explained their position on what I wrote.
You didn’t, you just shot from the hip, thought a lousy one-sentence judgement would win the day for you, then dashed for the door.
Uncle Woofie: Dashed for the door? Well, I don’t know what time zone you think I’m in, but it looks like you’re wrong. Seeing as you asked, I was writing on a mobile phone, late at night, and had just had a longer comment eaten by the auto-refesh. However, having read you article, and all the comments then posted, I wanted to say something to indicate that there was one more man reading that didn’t want to add to your anti-feminist echo chamber. Why on earth do you think that I would expect that your feelings be hurt? I’m sure… Read more »
Admittedly, the vast majority of requests for an explanation came from this article (https://goodmenproject.com/men-and-feminism/i-have-female-privilege/) , which was a precursor to the article we’re now discussing, and has had much of the discussion dragged from there to here. That doesn’t change the fact that in any discussion with accusations of male privilege, I have never been able to get a straight answer regarding an example of modern male privilege that (once again) actually IS a privilege and wasn’t far more significantly the result of a something else, such as class. Furthermore, I have yet to have any kind of discussion on… Read more »
Chris, your original post made NO mention of cell phone problems or lateness of hour or that you would even bother to return for further discussion; half a handful of words would’ve saved you the embarrassment your original posting has laid at your feet via my response and at least one other contributor. Your claims of exhausted cell battery life are not exactly provable. Besides, what would’ve been wrong with waiting until you were flush with time and energy to tackle this subject with better detailed objections? This includes sparing yourself the suspicion many of us now have that what’s… Read more »
Uncle Wolfie: thanks for your response. I’m a little puzzled over your remarks about cell battery life, though, as I never mentioned it. To be honest, given the lateness of the hour, I wouldn’t have read your article at all had it not been for the well-chosen headline. Having gone in, read your article and the comments, I felt that saying nothing left the floor free for something I didn’t believe should stand uncontested; For all I knew the comment thread would have died down by the following day, and everyone would have seen all your commenters basically agreeing with… Read more »
I know at first this will sound like a trivialization, but hear me out. One of the “alternate” names for the Batman character is “The Dark Knight”. If you want to watch the vast majority of men turn into a “Dark Knight,” ask them about how they feel about violence against women, and particularly rape. This attitude even extends to women who are victims of crude male behavior such as MissV mentioned. The “presumed guilty” tendencies (I refuse to call it “rape culture”, that term is a simplification of a very complex issue, this entire comments section is testimony to… Read more »
Lot of men ‘explaining’ what male privilege is here. Given the tone of the article, I’m not surprised. Content like this makes me feel tired: so little effort to engage with the concepts, so much misplaced anger.
Chris.
Well, given a lot of men are asking for examples of male privilege and aren’t getting anything that actually counts as a privilege, or comes across as a male privilege, but rather, a class privilege, it’s understandable then that these men who can’t GET an answer, find one for themselves. If you don’t like their answer, perhaps you should engage them rather than dismissing them with accusations of “mansplaining”, undesirable tones, content that makes you “feel tired” (poor thing you 🙁 .), lack of effort to engage (despite the consistent requests for examples) and finally, not to mention predictably… anger.… Read more »
“They very wording is designed to assume unearned ‘privilege’, and most of us know that.”
which was supposed to be:
“The wording of the phrase ‘male privilege’ is designed to promote the concept of males’ unearned ‘privilege’ as if a trust fund was involved.”
Notta helluva lotta room for ‘crossed wires’ there….
I actually did include a detailed reason, but it was edited out for the sake of brevity. I’ll post it here… “Most men, especially these days, can’t see where they’re getting any of the ‘perks’ they’ve been told this alleged “privilege” entails. ‘Male privilege’ only exists for movie stars, sports heroes, the terminally handsome, and wealth holders. This turns it into just plain old ‘privilege’ parked behind the word ‘male’. The only other validity alleged ‘male privilege’ has, is as an intellectually dubious word-weapon wielded by bitter feminists to beat the entire male gender over the head with repeatedly.” Comments… Read more »
That’s what Scott Adams of ‘Dilbert’ commented on in one of his books, discussing the gender inequity of CEO power: “You hear women talk about the power and perks that male CEOs enjoy and it’s true… but as any male coworker will tell you, those are OTHER MEN.”
Or, more succinctly (and admittedly sarcastically): “Privilege is what all men hear about, but only a few men actually get to experience.”
Am I the only one here who thinks men are privileged in terms of their gender roles? This doesn’t mean that all men benefit, or that no men are oppressed, just that there are aspects of life that open up to you if you’re a man that don’t if you’re a woman.
For me gendered privilege and oppression are directly interlinked. If you argue female privilege exists then you’re also arguing that male privilege does too.
Oh, absolutely. Men DO enjoy certain privileges in our society based on our gender; just as women do. And many of those privileges come with strings attached, like the role you’re expected to play and the sacrifices you’re expected to make in order to qualify. Not to mention the societal scorn and invisibility you’ll face if you fail to perform as required.
That’s common to both genders. Pretending all the advantages OR all the disadvantages accrue to only one side is misleading and counterproductive.
“Am I the only one here who thinks men are privileged in terms of their gender roles?” I’m honestly curious how you perceive this, perhaps some examples would help illustrate it? “just that there are aspects of life that open up to you if you’re a man that don’t if you’re a woman.” As Copyleft says, is that not true of both genders? “If you argue female privilege exists then you’re also arguing that male privilege does too.” Is the reverse not true as well then? If one argues that men have privilege, does not that men female privilege exists… Read more »
“All it takes for the concept of male privilege to burst like a fragile soap-bubble is to pay attention to what sickly, emaciated Steve Rogers’ life was like when we first encounter him in this movie; since men that are like Steve Rogers exist everywhere.” “Male privilege is a concept that can only make sense to someone who doesn’t actually know any men I suspect… or care about them.” And others above. I’m finding it difficult to tell whether they’re arguing against the concept that all men are privileged or that any men are privileged. I think we have our… Read more »
“For me gendered privilege and oppression are directly interlinked”
Are you suggesting if one has privilege, the other must be oppressed? are you denying that with privilege comes responsibility? Are you denying that both genders can have privilege? Have you ever tried to examine the privilege women have and the oppression men have, or do you do as many feminists do, and try to make anything and everything into some offence against women (I’d swear some feminists could turn winning the lottery into a victimization of themselves as women)
I think a large part of the anger at the woman who talked about female privilege was that they had never seen anyone disagree with privilege argument. For all the talk about how varied feminists are (which is true of some ideas) there is a very homogenous approach to some things. It is never said but its implied there is a victim pyramid with white able bodied straight men at the top and everyone else underneath it. To talk of female privilege means the pyramid view of privilege isn’t consistent. When pressed a few express the idea that women are… Read more »
It is never said but its implied there is a victim pyramid with white able bodied straight men at the top and everyone else underneath it. To talk of female privilege means the pyramid view of privilege isn’t consistent. That would explain why they argue against is so adamantly. And looking at the female privilege post, wow are they arguing against it. It gets to the point that the only way feminism will ever declare equality here appears to be that women have to be ahead in every single statistical measurement. I guess that’s what the World Gender Gap report… Read more »
Who produces that report?
Male privilege is a concept that can only make sense to someone who doesn’t actually know any men I suspect… or care about them. The struggles they endure finding a place for themselves in the world, make the claim of male privilege so stupidly weak and intellectually counterfeit that it’s rendered inert and useless Not inert. I see that label of “male privilege” as just another one of the struggles, kicking those men while they are down, standing on their necks. Kind of laughing at them as if to say, “You’re so pathetic a specimen of a man, and to… Read more »
It’s an old concept, but it never seems to be remembered when and where the issue crops up: the notion of the “Forgotten Man” or “Invisible Man.” We all know the fat and privileged male CEOs lording it over society, but nobody’s aware of the desperate and starving homeless men that roam around the fringes at the very bottom of the ladder.
Instead, we hear fatuous comments about “male privilege” that pretend class and wealth–far more powerful aspects of REAL privilege in our society–don’t matter.
Mr. Byron, would you please explain how you get the commentary software to let you use bold-face and italics?
It’s been making me crazy not being able to do that.
fine article woofie. 1. to italicise, type everything (except the ‘+’ characters and the word ‘END’) after this sentence, stop at the word ‘END’. ‘the text you want to be italicised goes here’ END 2. to bold, type everything (except the ‘+’ characters and the word ‘END’) after this sentence, stop at the word ‘END’. ‘the text you want to be bolded goes here’ END 3. to blockquote, type everything (except the ‘+’ characters and the word ‘END’) after this sentence, stop at the word ‘END’. ‘the text you want to be quote goes here’ END – . – this… Read more »
poop, software removed the ‘+’ chars and so actioned the commands. 1. to italicise, type everything (except the ‘T’ characters and the word ‘END’) after this sentence, stop at the word ‘END’. ‘the text you want to be italicised goes here’ END 2. to bold, type everything (except the ‘T’ characters and the word ‘END’) after this sentence, stop at the word ‘END’. ‘the text you want to be bolded goes here’ END 3. to blockquote, type everything (except the ‘T’ characters and the word ‘END’) after this sentence, stop at the word ‘END’. ‘the text you want to be… Read more »
LOLOL, bugger this.
woofie playaround on that link i gave you, youll soon it pickup
Bless you, jameseq…!
It appears I was attempting to use the wrong brackets during my last attempt at itallicization.
…and thank you for that fine comment about my article…!
cool, no problem 🙂
P.S.
(Laughs) I don’ blame you fer buggerin’ out on this….
Performing proper demonstrations of anything (particularly on-line techniques) can be like the family dog that staunchly refuses to perform the trick you worked so hard to teach him when you wanna show off.
Angle brackets are the key, it seems.
testing, testing…
…by George, I think he’s got it!!
Goofin’ on this lil’ conundrum has been almost as much fun as reading and respondin’ to alla the comments onna article itself!…!
First and foremost, thank you, Mr. Byron, for finding my article worth commenting about. I have paid much attention to your comments regardless of where they show up here at the GMP Magazine. They may often be considered adversarial, but can be counted on to have a good, defensible point, resulting in what I’ve been told the “GMP Prime Directive” on article commentary stands for and hopes to produce, more thought leading to more discussion. I too, believe in that Prime Directive. Okay, you caught me onna use of ‘inert’…any concept that gets as much play as ‘male privilege’ does… Read more »