Nikki Brown calls for men to resist an easy acceptance of rape culture and to speak out in defense of their gender.
Don’t take offense. I know a lot of men stand up about rape. I know they speak up about sexual assault. They wear ribbons and high heels to show their support for anti-violence campaigns. I know many of you take issue with what rape culture tells me, your sister, your wife, your mother, your daughters, your friend what they should wear and how they should act. I know many of you support our right to sluthood (thank you very much).
I appreciate all of that. What I mean here is, why aren’t you speaking out against what this language, this rape culture, says about you? About men?
Men Can’t Help Themselves. Wear the wrong clothes or say the wrong thing, and Men believe they are Entitled to a woman’s sex.
Men Rape.
Rape culture says that we should expect men to be violent, misogynistic, and to not even notice, let alone care, what a woman wants, as long as she did something to make him think she wants to have sex. No, scratch that. As long as she did something to make him think about sex.
Why aren’t you angry? Why aren’t you upset? Why aren’t you telling your sister and your wife and your mother and your daughters and your friends that it doesn’t matter what they wear or how they act or if they flirted?
It doesn’t matter.
That there is nothing women can’t do or say or wear. That there’s no such thing as too much alcohol or took him home too soon. No excuse, no lie, no rationale that makes rape or attempted rape or assault or harassment OK. To make rape or attempted rape or assault or harassment Something Men Do.
When are you going to make clear, I mean really effing crystal, to us that THIS IS NOT HOW MEN BEHAVE.
This is not who you are, this is not how you think. This is not what we should prepare for. This is not what we should expect from you.
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Am I wrong here? Is this view and these expectations not a problem to you?
I don’t have that view. I don’t share those expectations. Instead, I expect: I expect men to appreciate me for who I am, from my cleavage to my wit. I expect men to never think they are entitled to my body, no matter what I wear or how I act or how soon I went home with them. To believe sex is a mutually-agreed upon act (enthusiastic consent is not a feminist statement, people!) that we participate in together, not something men take from me. I expect men to treat me as a member of an equal, not a lesser sex. I expect men to treat me as I treat them.
But here’s the thing: my expectations are in spite of the “that’s just how guys are” and the Facebook rape pages and the “can’t you women take a joke?” bullshit I hear every single day. They are in spite of every person who reads this post and thinks, “yeah, that’s nice and all Nikki, but in reality …” or “girl, you had better learn to play it safe.”
My expectations are in spite of rape culture.
These expectations are also of my own accord, my own faith in men—and because of the men in my life.
The sad thing? They are not because men speak up and tell me society and rape culture is wrong. They are not because, every time I hear “that’s how men are,” a good man speaks up and says, “no. It’s not.”
They are the ones I make for you in your silence.
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I understand that maybe the things rape culture says about men are subtle. I get what being vocal about sexual violence does to women, but we don’t talk enough about what rape culture says about men. Even in recent posts here on the Good Men Project—discussions revolved around education, support, and defense of women. They never once focused, even for a moment, on what all of these terrible stories say about men. About who men are, and who they are not. There is this underlying assumption that men just rape. There is this underlying acceptance about it.
And, yes, I fully comprehend the cultural differences here. But still.
Rape is not just about women. It’s about men, too. And we will never end this Rape Culture, we will never make revolutionary change, unless we start talking about men’s agency in it.
And that, gentlemen, starts with you. Your voice. Not only in support of SlutWalk, but in explaining to us that This Is Not What Men Do. This is not the behavior to expect from men. We need to hear you tell us that. You need to tell each other that. This is as important a conversation as any other we have about rape and sexual assault.
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Maybe you aren’t paying attention, or you think you’re the only one who is, or that we won’t hear you. Maybe you’ve never thought about it this way.
But it’s not enough. None of that is enough to excuse your silence. Your ignorance. Your acceptance of the excuses we all use and the lies we all tell to ignore rape and assault Every. Single. Day.
The underlying acceptance that Men Rape.
Consider this the open door. Consider this my invitation to the table and my request to hear your voice. Consider this your wake up call that rape culture isn’t talking only about women.
This is what rape culture and the excuses and lies we all tell ourselves about rape and sexual assault say about men.
Wake up. Speak up. I can’t hear you.
Yet.
—Photo terminallychll/Flickr
About Nikki Brown
Nikki, I understand your concern about the rape culture. I also understand your anger that it exists. But have you ever pondered the question as to why it exists in the first place? Where did it come from? I know that women have been victims of rape for as long as there have been men and women. However, i think a very important question to ask is why has it become more problematic over the last couple of decades or so? What is changing in our society? Unless we can figure how we are becoming this society you fear so much, we can’t do much about it, except react to the ongoing problem. I think it is a very important philosophical question to be asking. It is not enough to just figure out a better way to react to it.
<i.why has [rape] become more problematic over the last couple of decades or so? What is changing in our society? Unless we can figure how we are becoming this society you fear so much, we can’t do much about it, except react to the ongoing problem
Two explanations have been offered by conservatives.
One, is that rape is one of the rotten fruits of the sexual revolution; that de-sanctifying and cheapening sex has made it much easier, psychologically, for people to commit offenses that in a saner culture they’d hardly dare even think about.
The other is, that the collapse of the Judeo-Christian moral consensus, has lead to a vast increase in all types of victimization (not just sexual) in our society.
Of course, the de-sanctification of sexuality and the collapse of the Judeo-Christian consensus are quite closely linked, philosophically, so these “two” explanations are reall one.
The reporting and awareness of rape has increased. Rape itself has decreased.
@ natureartist
“i think a very important question to ask is why has it become more problematic over the last couple of decades or so?”
I don’t think it has. A lot of things that weren’t classified as rape like spousal rape are now recognized. A lot of things that weren’t recognized such as women raping men have just started to be recognized though there is still resistance to calling it rape. People report it more and it is more widely communicated. Some studies suggest that rape of women has actually decreased due to the proliferation of porn.
I don’t think any reasonable person couldn’t stand against rape or say that it isn’t part of an ongoing crime problem in society at large. However, if men are to identify and react appropriately to things that other men do to support rape culture, it would be best to define what rape culture is and how it manifests so that it can be identified. It could be the case that many men just don’t know what it is when they see it and clearing up what it is would help with that. Otherwise we could be just casting nets into and ideological ocean hoping that we caught the right fish.
There is no such thing as “rape culture.” It is feminist psychobabble. If there were to be a rape culture, there is a “culture” for every other criminal activity, such as “identity theft culture.”
After reading many comments, it is very clear that feminists coined the term “rape culture” because it conveniently broad brush demonizes men by implying that they are all are somehow complicit in rape, and therefore responsible for rape even if we would no sooner rape someone than kill someone or harm a child.
It’s a powerfully creative tactic because it enables them to at once paint us all as complicit rapists and them all as implicit rape victims, using one of the most charged terms and heinous crimes in our culture: rape.
I respectfully disagree. IMHO, “rape culture” is not easily dismissed – please read: http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.html. I also disagree that feminists “use” rape culture in an attempt to demonize men.
All that said, Eric, you and I are actually on the same page. I think you’re right that the way in which rape is discussed by society at large is demonizing to men (but it’s in a greater sense, not just from “feminists”) – and that is actually my point here. I think the way rape is often talked about*does* say “well, men rape.” I DON’T agree AT ALL – and I think more men should stand up to that kind of thinking and say “no, this is not how we behave. We are not all rapists.” Further, it’s the fact that we overwhelmingly talk about rape as a crime perpetrated by men on women – and neglect to discuss men as rape victims or women as rapists. This inofitself perpetuates the myth that “men rape” AND that “men don’t get raped” – because we shame men for their rape, too. We say they must be gay, or invited it, or liked it. We just talk about it much less, because we’re more comfortable saying “men rape women” than anything else. I am not ok with this, and I don’t think you are either.
Therefore – we actually have much more in common in our thoughts, I think. At least on this. Perhaps if we leave words and phrases behind, and focus on what’s beneath them, we’d get somewhere.
Why no “child neglect culture?” Or “child abuse culture”? Or, “identify theft culture?”, or any other type of crime culture? Why is there only a rape culture and nothing else? Why is it only feminists who use the term “rape culture?” Is it just a coincidence?
Is it just a coincidence that the one crime that has the potential to cast men in the worst possible light just happens to be the one “culture” that feminists claim pervades our society? The one “culture” that makes otherwise innocent men somehow complicity in rapes they would normally would never even dream of?
It seems to me that [some] feminists are absolutely bound and determined to paint as many men as possible as rapists, whether it we are part of a “rape culture” or, as the lead feminist writer claims, married men whose wives have sex with them as an act of love but weren’t in the mood were raped by their husbands.
So, yes, Nikki, according to the lead feminist writer here, I am a repeat rapist of my dear, loved wife – despite the fact that, out of respect, we did not have sex until after marriage, and I treat her very well, and have never in any way harmed or abused her. But, still, according to him, I am a rapist. But, even if I can argue my way out of that, I am still a rapist in being complicit with “rape culture.” So, one way or another, they are going to paint me as a rapist.
It’s way, way beyond ridiculous. And, they wonder why most women reject having any connection to feminism.
I would argue that we shouldn’t confuse feminists and rape culture – rape culture is something we fight *against* – not something condoned or used to demonize men. I think there is some confusion over “rape culture” and how it is used. Feminists don’t *want* rape culture. However, the reason we say rape culture and not the others is because there is far, far less shaming of the victim in those crimes, and we are far more likely to discuss them as perpetrated by men or women, and the victims as male or female, than we are when we talk about rape. To me, that is a significant difference and it’s not a coincidence.
The underlying idea that “men rape” and that men are so angry about it is also what I would take to be a symptom of rape culture. And, again, a point I am trying to make: that we need to fight against anything in our society and culture that says “men rape”.
I’ve wondered repeatedly how much more common ground we’d find if we set down specific language to have this conversation. I don’t want to argue semantics instead of deeper issues, and I consistently feel like I actually have more in common with commenters than they think we do, I’m just using terms that people can’t get past.
Nikki, I don’t think Eric will read your arguments clearly no matter what language you use. I’ll be honest, if you don’t read it closely, it’s tough to swallow: saying men rape, are complicit in rape, “it’s Something Men Do.” It’s aggressive, but it’s true and needs to be said.
Unfortunately, some might miss or ignore the fact that you mention it perpetuates the myth that men are naturally inclined to rape or be violent (5th paragraph for readers who missed it) – and that’s something men should worry about. We need to wonder if we are admitting rape is a natural, masculine instinct, something it isn’t or shouldn’t be.
That said, I think rape is this weird, oddly alien concept for men, whether it’s because of how we’re socialized or some weird mass denial. The fact that male on male rape is often used for comedy says something about rape culture, too, and I think the discussion goes beyond tasteless jokes or stereotypes made at the expense of women and to how we view rape itself.
“That said, I think rape is this weird, oddly alien concept for men, whether it’s because of how we’re socialized or some weird mass denial.”
Men are not in denial about rape the thing is THEY ARE NOT RAPIST! Most men don’t rape people don’t relate to rape as a thing they do or have experienced and to be honest neither can women outside of their own imagination. The number of victims and perpetrators are a minority and we don’t have a culture that supports rape. Suggesting we do is a desperate attempt at sensational issue advocacy like “slut walk”. This is what dying movements do.
I guess a better way to say it is the idea of rape (or rape culture) as subjugating women is foreign to men, and as a young man who has heard many, many rape jokes I assure you many aren’t aware of the implications.
Alex,
Agree with most of your points – and, yes, the rape jokes (when the victim is either male or female) are one way in which rape culture perpetuates.
However – my point is that *rape culture* says men rape. The fact that we’re supposed to laugh at something that is abhorrent is indicative of a *culture* that says rape is ha ha not a big deal, and you know, just something that men do. Whoopsie, maybe she was drunk/dressed like a hooker so…
My point is, that is Rape Culture talking – not women, not men, not any real person. We, both men and women, need to tell it to STFU.
Alex,
“. . . as a young man who has heard many, many rape jokes. . .”
What kind of people do you hang out with who tell “many,. many rape jokes?”
My advice: choose a better circle of associates. I have hundred of friends and none of them tell no rape, stabbing, shooting, throat slitting, child molesting, hit and run, dismemberment, castration, or jokes about other forms of violent assault.
Evidently some are not aware that rapists are not otherwise fine, upstanding citizens who do no other harm. They are the very same people who commit those other violent acts. The problem is not rape in isolation. It’s about the propensity to victimize others, by whatever means possible, rape being but one of many means.
“However, the reason we say rape culture and not the others is because there is far, far less shaming of the victim in those crimes, and we are far more likely to discuss them as perpetrated by men or women, and the victims as male or female, than we are when we talk about rape.”
With regards to child abuse you are right I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say “he/she was asking for it” or the like. When it comes to car break-ins it isn’t all that uncommon to hear someone retort with “you should have locked your doors” or some other such thing. It is really dependent on the crime and the victim as to how much shaming, as you put it, goes on. We don’t blame children as much because they are seen as not having complete mental faculties by adult standards.
“The underlying idea that “men rape” and that men are so angry about it is also what I would take to be a symptom of rape culture. And, again, a point I am trying to make: that we need to fight against anything in our society and culture that says “men rape”.”
Agreed but so far I think all anyone has given is a list of symptoms of the problem and not a definitive answer as to what the problem is or at least I haven’t seen a definitive answer. The term “rape culture” I had never heard before till now even when I was studying criminology/psychology so it’s new to me.
“I’ve wondered repeatedly how much more common ground we’d find if we set down specific language to have this conversation. I don’t want to argue semantics instead of deeper issues, and I consistently feel like I actually have more in common with commenters than they think we do, I’m just using terms that people can’t get past.”
I would argue that since the term seems to be so divisive and not very well explained (to me) that it just be dropped in favor of getting at the meat of the argument itself. I think it would be even easier to just state the problem clearly so that people can focus on the issues and not just a word. Honestly, I didn’t find anything in this article which was offensive to me just rather some ambiguity in terms among the comments.
So “rape culture” is a term to define a culture where rape and sexual assault are accepted, sometimes prevalent. The key for me here is that “accepted” part – culture allows for rape with victim blaming, sexual objectification, and by trivializing these things (via rape jokes, etc). To men, that culture also sets us up to say “only this kind of rape happens, and we can then dismiss it because, well, women be slutty and men be all aggressive.”
I clearly should have lead with that – my fault and naivete entirely.
Going to your points, I agree that we often tell people “hey why’d you leave your car unlocked??” but even when we say that, how often do we tell them they deserved to have stuff stolen? Or maybe that they lied about it and actually wanted stuff stolen? Or, that, you know, maybe you invited the person in who stole? And, if you ever had stuff stolen because you left something unlocked, did you ever feel bad about pressing charges?
If you did feel shamed enough not to press charges, would you ever say that was OK? Shouldn’t we STILL put the emphasis on the person who stole, not you?
Second, sorry but having these stolen is nowhere near rape or sexual assault, anyway.
SO the problem is not only that rape and sexual assault happen, but the way in which we discuss them. We trivialize them, we blame the victim, we say men are the ones who are raped and women are victims, we say false accusations of rape are *at least* as big a problem as the rape itself… all these things confuse and confound, and result in a crime hugely under-reported and very much about victim blame. It’s not ok. We should have a clearer, more cohesive way we talk about rape, and allow for victims to come forward and become survivors. Is that helpful?
” the reason we say rape culture and not the others is because there is far, far less shaming of the victim in those crimes. . .”
Nikki, there is no evidence to substantiate this claim. I have seen no evidence that all rape victims are “shamed” (however you define that) any more than victims of any other crime. Victims of any crime will and should be admonished as to how they can avoid becoming future victims, including what they should consider doing differently.
If you see no evidence, you’re not paying attention, plain and simple. Never heard “oh she shouldn’t have been there” or “oh, she shouldn’t have worn that”?
Actually talk to a rape or sexual assault survivor or two. They may be better at explaining it. I can guarantee you know several.
The same can be and IS said of every crime. There cannot be a rape culture unless there is also a culture for every other crime.
“[A] point I am trying to make: that we need to fight against anything in our society and culture that says ‘men rape.’”
Here’s the beginning and end of the fight: Most men don’t rape. Take that, rape culture.
Yes, that.
And also, you know, when someone makes a rape joke or says “well, how drunk was she or what was she wearing?” you can speak up and say “how does that matter? would either of those things suddenly make you capable of rape?”
I am going to agree with Eric on the use of the term rape culture. Even thought I am clearly against rape and I agree that more men should take a stand against rape, I think the term rape culture is misleading. As Eric said there are many other crimes who have double or triple the incidence of rape: assault, robbery and burglary for example are committed four or five times more than rape. Why don’t we live in an assault culture? The official numbers from CIA for rape in the USA are 27.5 per 100,000 habitants. Compare that to a 2,003 per 100,000 when it comes to larceny. Why then we are not in a larceny culture instead of a rape culture? That is why I think that the term is used only to demonize men because in reality, if we are going to speak about crime (because rape refers specifically to the crime) culture, there are many other crimes committed in higher numbers. Now, what I do think exists is a culture of violence against women, to me that term is much accurate and encompasses many other crimes that women are victims in larger numbers than rape. I don’t think that using terms like rape culture which tends to exagerate and demonize men are going to help to bring more men to stand against violence against women.
I see your point, and, again, I agree that I used a term most readers don’t quite understand. However, again, the point isn’t that “wow we have SO MUCH RAPE” the point is how the culture is accepting of rape when it occurs, how we talk about it, etc. I think THAT can be demonizing to men (which is, of course, my point), but using the term isn’t.
I firmly believe rape is about sex not power. So if your ultimate goal is the eradication of all rape IMO you need to decrease the male desire for sex. Obviously this is easier said than done but a few suggestions would be: legalizing prositution or eradicate slutshaming culture so women aren’t demonized for having many sexual partners. Both of those would decrease the pool of sexually frustrated men that would potentially use criminal means to have sex with a woman (rape obviously)
Or if you want get real futuristic a pill that temporarily dampens the male libido would work too.
I don’t think that is correct. Rape IS a crime about power, where sex is used as a way to dominate and submit the victim. Rapist enjoy the fear they create in the victim. And one way you can see it is that usually when the woman reacts aggressively against the rapist most rapist will back up.
Fully agree, Kelly. Rape is fundamentally about control and violence, not about sex. Well, except for the point that when women act aggressively, the rapist backs off. Sometimes, sure, but not as a general rule.
Tokyo Whale: despite that, I do think you have a point, yet I would very much like to make a distinction between sexual desire and the impulse to rape – two VERY different things. Yet, if we simply take your point and apply it to sexual desire ONLY, there’s much to be said for opening up discussion and sexual positivity to include both men and women, to be more open to dialogue, and encourage sex as a healthy part of life, should you choose to have it (not having it, by your own choice, is also a-ok). If we were more open and less shameful about the desire of both
men and women, I think we’d be happier, healthier, and yes, it would *then* have an impact on rape culture: we might be more clear on the difference, there would be far less grey area around “coercive rape”, around consent, and we might be far more willing to talk openly about sexual violence.
There is no such thing as rape culture.
There is no such thing as rape culture.
It exists only as a slogan and a blaming tool.
Thanks to Toysoldier and his blog, I could read this great article.
Have fun : http://theonlinecitizen.com/2011/12/slutwalk-manufacturing-myths-about-%E2%80%98myths%E2%80%99/
I totally see what you’re saying. My husband is a ‘left-wing’ anarchist, gay-friendly, very against macho, etc.. But he was FURIOUS that I got sexually attacked. Not at the attacker, but at me. “Why did you go to a bar on your own?”, “Why did you get in a car with a guy you didn’t know?”,”You did this to get back at me”,”You want to be a victim” (It was midnight on a Chicago night in February – freezing, I thought I was being safer than walking home and my toes felt like they were going to fall off, yes it wasn’t really street smart, but…). The thing is a women can go out alone at night, she can maybe not do the most clever thing, she can probably expect a few socially-inept people to make a pass at her or even for these people to not give up making passes. But no means no and when a women says no she doesn’t expect to get driven down an alley and threatened with a gun. And if that DOES happen, well, its not really her fault that it did.. I mean, I got accused of ‘trying to get raped’ – how does one do that if we assume that rape is a crime that the majority of men are incapable of.. And how can you accuse a woman of that!!!?
Yes. This right here. Thank you for sharing your story, and this is what I mean. I am so sorry for what happened to you, and I hope that, in being able to talk about it, you’ve moved from victim to survivor. I know too many women in both categories.
That said, I don’t believe your husband is a bad guy – but the things he said to you were not ok. I hope he’s seen the light.
So what you are saying is that society and particularly men promote a culture of rape and rape shield laws, predator watchlists, longer sentences, lowered burden of proof have done nothing to mitigate this so called rape culture?
Now thanks to feminists, males on campus who are accused of rape will be more likely to be convicted even if they are completely innocent.
Well Nikki I’ll try to spell this out in small words for you since you clearly lack understanding of basic principles of logic.
1. Men don’t rape–rapists rape. To conclude that men rape and repeatedly utter the phrase that “men rape” is basically saying you think all men are rapists or rapists waiting to happen.
2. The very small number of men who do rape are often social awkward men who lack compassion towards their fellow human beings. They will likely be unmoved by public protestations or the “rape culture” that you claim promotes rape.
3. Less than 1% of men rape. Even you fail to admit this fact. Already 99% of men don’t rape which is an overwhelming majority. If the remaining >1% is unmoved by the actions of the other 99% then what makes you think changing so-called “rape culture” will accomplish?
4. Rape culture is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If men reject your assertion of rape culture then they are confirming rape culture. If men adopt your assertion of rape culture they are affirming rape culture and adopting an ideology of hatred and blame against ALL men.
I for one am not going to go around and tell men not to rape. For one it’s insulting. It presumes that this is something they might otherwise do if I didn’t say something to them. Rapists probably don’t listen to reason which is likely why they rape.
But more importantly I don’t give a f!@#. Know why? Because we are all equal now. Males are no longer responsible for the health and safety of women. You’re on your own.
Don’t want to be raped then learn how to defend yourself. Don’t get f’d up drunk at a frat party and try to follow half the members upstairs to their rooms. If you say no and a man keeps going you better fight. Better yet you should probably make better choices in the men you date. Stop dating thugs and bad boys and maybe that “80% of rapes are by acquaintances” will go down.
Either way it’s not my problem. I will never prostrate myself to a group that thinks I’m a piece of shit rapist because I was born with a penis or without a vagina.
In other words, “man up”.
Jean,
You misread the article. Nikki’s point was EXACTLY the same as yours, that all men do NOT rape and that too many of us play into that false notion. She’s actually on YOUR side and was encouraging men to speak up and agree –which essentially is what you have done here. Although your last bit about frat parties and thugs is pretty scary and mean-spirited. I hope your anger was based out of your misinterpretation of Nikki’s point and that, in reality, you are kinder to the women in your life.
Thanks, Jess, and yes to your response.
Jean, I never said men rape, I said the opposite. I also am not perpetuating rape culture, I want to stop it. It is the culture that says men rape and women are victims, it is how we talk *about* rape more than it is “men rape”. I am not asking men to go around telling other men not to rape, but I would ask you to not laugh at a rape joke, and to question when people blame the victim.
Unfortunately, you’ve kind of made my point in the end. Simply because a woman gets drunk somewhere, that means it’s cool if she gets raped? Or if she dates the wrong guy, then its her fault?
Nikki, I am sorry that your article was misunderstood by several readers which is likely, as you mentioned in the comments, due to the choice of terminology.
I wish we could get past whether or not “rape culture” is an appropriate term. I really don’t care. What I do care about is the really important point you make about men not being encouraged to defend themselves on the notion that all men rape. WE know that not all men rape. We know that only a small percent of men commit rape. Just like only a small percent of people commit murder. The latter is so plainly obvious that it doesn’t need to be said.
But I agree that men are MADE to feel shamed and complicit in an act committed by so few. And why? I don’t apologize for murderers because I am not one. If there is a culture that perpetuates a subtle accusation that all men commit rape, then men have every right to say, “like hell.” That is how I read your article, as a defense of men against this accusation and a CALL to invite them to join in on their own defense.
I think men possibly feel that defending the male character (against the wrongful idea that it’s in the male character to rape) might be insensitive to those who have been victimized. But that’s not so! Men should feel welcome to defend themselves against these shallow portrayals of their gender and make it clear how fringe that behavior actually is (not unlike what Jean says above).
It’s the same as I would do if someone implied that it was in my character to murder just because someone similar to me had committed that crime. Like hell it is.
Yes, exactly. I ask men to speak up when someone uses a rape victim’s clothing or behavior to excuse her rape – *because*, in my opinion anyway, none of things suddenly make Good Men capable of rape. We need to get rid of that dogma, and men need to help out in that – whether by telling the women in their lives or each other. Not because I am blaming them for rape and sexual assault, but because we live in a culture that says that.
“But I agree that men are MADE to feel shamed and complicit in an act committed by so few.”
That is only true in the feminist blogosphere. Out here in the real world, where the majority of women are not feminists, most men are made to feel no such thing. Rape and rape culture is not a constant topic of conversation of most women.
I don’t know the first thing about a feminist blogosphere. Was that actually hat directed at me?
Because seriously, I am pretty sure I have not been to a single site labeled as such. I assure you that I live in the real world with real women and men. If you read my comment, you’ll see I said I have no idea about rape culture. I’ve just observed how there can be that mindset of “boys will be boys” on this topic and I think it does men a disservice. Perhaps that is more the case in feminist media? I honestly wouldn’t know (though I’d be interested to see if you have links that you are familiar with). I’m basing this on my own experiences with mainstream media and lifestyle.
I thought Nikki made an interesting point about how men are wrongly portrayed and I took this article to be in defense of men, so I am genuinely confused about all the negative comments.
Don’t let them dupe you. There is no such thing as rape culture. The feminist blogosphere is where misandristic concepts such as “rape culture” are argued for. Google it for yourself. You’ll only find that term argued for by feminists. Using this argument, they portray all men as being somehow complicit in rapes they have nothing to do with. This article does not defend men; it accuses us all of heinous crimes, including the majority of us who would never dream of such.
Western culture is less accepting of rape than any other felony, with premeditated murder for money being the only possible exception. Even that carries less of a stigma. Thus, once again, there is no such thing as rape culture.
I hope this thread can surface again. Nikki, you said a lot of good things but as you may not know, men are speaking up/out but if people aren’t listening …… The court system still see men as bad and women are victims. So much talk about MRA’s but if people to truly research them, they aren’t the so called “force” that some try to make them out to be. Men don’t have representation …. it’s about the votes and with women % voters, men don’t have a chance.
I remember drinking with six friends. We all knew each other from high school and probably hung out for at least 7 years by then. Four were guys and there were two women. One woman was passed out and the other was so drunk she couldn’t stand. She started saying I got to pee, I got to pee. We were looking at each other to see who would take her. Nobody felt comfortable taking her. We eventually made her ex-boyfriend take her. We figured that he’d seen it before and if he hadn’t here’s his chance. Their reactions were interesting.
When I told the girl who need to go what happened, she got mad at me. She accused me of wanting her to pee herself. I admitted that it was a thought (big mistake). I told her that I heard women wipe and since I wasn’t about to do that, she’d just have to deal with the UTI later anyway. She didn’t take it well. We remained friends though.
The other one thought all five of us should have taken her to make sure nothing happened. The only thing to come out of my mouth was so the five of us could violate her privacy. This was about 20 years ago. I never heard nor knew about rape culture, but thinking back I wonder how a woman could think that a man, who she’s known for a third of her life and believed, was a good friend would immediately suspect that a guy would take advantage. We were obviously uncomfortable with the whole situation. In fact she was passed out and wouldn’t have even known if anything happened to her. The other one had no problem with any of us seeing her or cleaning her up apparently (but she might have been just mad). She was mad that we hesitated in helping her.
Different people could see the same situation in different ways. I thought we were being as respectful as we could.