Zek Evets tries to figure out why a man’s passionate speech seems to always be interpreted as yelling.
This is a problem which has lately begun to annoy the ever-loving kosher crap out of me. I’ll be talking to someone, always a woman, and we’ll disagree on something. She’ll state her points; I’ll state mine. But the infuriating thing is: as soon as I start raising my voice to be heard, change my intonation, or even show a smidgen of emotion, she will say, “stop yelling.”
It doesn’t matter if what I said was right. Doesn’t matter if it was true. Doesn’t even matter that she wasn’t listening so how could she tell I was yelling. All that matters is that I was yelling. I yelled, therefore I am wrong. And now I must be quiet.
It’s a tactic which has insidiously begun to worm its way into my every behavior. I don’t raise my voice in a crowded room. I consciously lower my volume, even amidst celebration or defeat. I overthink and overanalyze my tone constantly.
But here’s the thing. I never actually yell. Every time a woman has told me I was yelling—especially ex-girlfriends—I wasn’t. I was disagreeing. I was being honest. I was being… open. Either it was raising my voice to be heard over her shouting, changing my tone to meet a feeling of attack, or just showing my emotional investment in the conversation. Sure as ice melts, she’ll say, “stop yelling.”
Funny enough, someone telling me to stop yelling when I’m not yelling is EXACTLY the type of thing to make me want to yell. End result: a gotcha moment. I yelled once, post-provocation, thus I was yelling the whole time. Go figure.
But why does this keep happening? I have a theory. (We’re all theorists, so I’ve learned.) It’s because in our world, social niceties have been largely defined historically by women. From Ms. Manners to Ask Amy, women dominate the conversation on polite conversation between mixed gender groups.
And I think I’m on to something here, because I’ve never had this happen with a man. No guy has ever told me to stop yelling, especially when I never was in the first place. This isn’t to say it couldn’t happen to me, or doesn’t happen to other people. I hear women often get it from men to “stop screaming” or “stop screeching.” I’m just saying. Broad brush strokes here.
So why does the male voice elicit such strong reactions from women? Why is my voice heard as a yell, especially when it’s not? Are male voices scary? Or is it something about a man’s voice when he disagrees with you? Are we harsh sounding or something? Is it that our vocal chords and women’s ears are biologically predisposed to naturally conflict so that women hear us yelling when we’re not? I’ve got a million possibilities but it’s a bitch to find even one that makes sense.
I do wonder if it isn’t something else though. I wonder if it’s just another instance of men being unable to show emotion. Another instance of men being demonized as capable of random violence or instilling fear in others.
And it’s not just something that plays out among pale faces. I distinctly remember a musician friend of mine (yes, he’s Black and no, that doesn’t mean I’m not racist) who was talking to this open-mic host about sign-ups. She told him that even though he’d signed-up earlier than everyone, she wondered if she could move him to a different slot during the night — one where the crowd is vastly thinned out. He said no, and she kept pushing him, ad her voice kept going up. Eventually he said firmly, “no.” What’d she say? “Stop yelling at me.” His reply was perfect, “Stop projecting.”
Bam! Right there is my theory. It’s not that we’re yelling. It’s that others are projecting their own insecurities and fears onto our perfectly normal voice until the script is so twisted we’ve gone from aggrieved status to villain.
(Side-note: that incident was also the time I first learned the saying, “a White woman’s tears are worth more than a Black man’s life.” But I digress.)
Anyhoo, back to my point. Guys, if someone is telling you to stop yelling STOP. Take a breath. Think back. Were you yelling? No? Good. Then tell them to stop projecting. Tell them that you’re allowed to have a voice and that it doesn’t exist to make them feel comfortable. Tell them what I tell them now: this isn’t yelling. This is me trying to talk to you. Try listening.
About Zek J. Evets
Voices often have heavily gendered characteristics, which can make things complicated for everyone. While a man with a deep and rich voice can easily sound authoritative and powerful and can dominate oral disputes with it, many women who try to do the same thing can sound ‘shrill’. The mere sound of their voice puts them at a distinct disadvantage in such contexts. When it comes to competing with a strong male voice in a loud dispute, they really don’t have much of a chance. Consequently, I suspect that many women using the ‘you’re yelling’ ploy to stop men from exploiting their natural advantage in this area.
Is there any research on that question or are you just sort of guessing there? My own opinion for what it is worth is that people who dominate verbally do so by just talking over other people and interrupting.
So, when I am talking in person with someone and even in online chat, I have a big problem of sometimes talking over people and interrupting. I don’t try to dominate people verbally…I just talk a lot and loudly. I also get very enthusiastic about what I want to say. So someone may be speaking for awhile, making a point in a conversation I’m having, and I’ll sort of think of something to reply with, but they’re still talking…and then I end up sort of butting in out of excitement. It was worse when I was kid, obviously…but yeah.
As for the idea that men have an advantage in the whole yelling thing…well I’d go with not so much. My voice carries, and it’s not really all that low. When I purposefully project…well it’s flipping loud. I also know men who have extremely quiet voices…so I don’t think men inherently have an advantage when it comes to a yelling match.
There’s already a word for this: gaslighting
The title of this article could just as well have been “Why men aren’t crazy”
Just to be clear, I don’t think this kind of “please calm down” tactics is gendered. I’ve seen men and women do it.
Gaslighting… I’ll remember that =)
“Gaslighting” describes one side of it. The other term for this is “silencing.” you could be whispering and you would still be the horrible brute who is “making her feel afraid” because you are saying something she doesn’t want to hear.
I hate being yelled at. It’s very upsetting to me, probably because my dad was verbally abusive and yelled at me a lot. I don’t think anyone has the right to raise their voice at another person except in extreme circumstances. If someone has a disagreement with me , they have a right to tell me that, but they don’t have a right to bully me. I have told both men and women to stop yelling. I don’t think it’s gendered at all. When I feel angry enough to raise my voice, I walk away and cool off. If people are telling you that you are yelling, maybe you are.
Sarah, I’m sorry that you encountered such verbal abuse at a younger age. Please know that my response isn’t an effort to belittle that experience.
I recently dated a woman that encountered very similar circumstances as a kid — verbal abuse from both mom and dad that has continued in her adult life. At several times, I was told by her to “stop yelling” because of her (similar) belief that she would not tolerate the raising of voices.
And I get it. I, too, do not appreciate getting engaged in a shouting match with anyone. But what she said was, indirectly, state that my feelings at the time that were causing me to raise my voice were effectively invalidated; her discomfort with a raised voice suddenly became more important than the hurt that caused my initial reaction in the first place.
So, I felt ashamed — not only about the yelling, but about feeling angry in the first place. That’s a function of my own insecurity manifesting itself too, but the incidents also made me question whether I was even allowed to express negative emotions at all. As our relationship progressed, I discovered that this was horrendously true.
Yes, Sarah — nobody deserves to be yelled at. But the person yelling also doesn’t deserve to be invalidated, shamed, or judged for yelling. Instead, the yeller (and yellee
) need to have the courage to provide a safe place to discover why it occurred in the first place and how to be more productive in expressing those tough feelings in a constructive, loving way.
m@, I understand your point of view, I really do. Sometimes, certainly, I am hurt and feel like raising my voice. And, certainly, there have been times when I got angry enough to yell at someone. All I can say is, the times that has happened, in retrospect, it didn’t do me or the other person any good. It didn’t solve any problems. It didn’t advance the relationship. In fact, yelling usually only damages relationships. Most things are not worth yelling about. If you are being hurt enough by someone that you frequently want to yell at them, maybe you should ask yourself why you are even in the relationship.
The truth is, yelling is usually about control. It’s about trying to force someone to do something your way. Or it’s about punishing someone for hurting you or disappointing you, and trying to force them to acknowledge that you are right and they are wrong. Which is not a good way to deal with conflict in a relationship.
Thanks for responding, Sarah.
One thing I may ask: is yelling really always about control or punishment? In some circumstances, yelling is a visceral response to pure, unadulterated fear of the circumstances a person faces. Yes, there’s an element of control there, but it’s more of an attempt to control a situation where he or she is faced with a threat. It’s probably why they tell hikers to yell and scream when spotting a grizzly bear on the prowl.
That’s why I included this in my comment: “the yeller (and yellee ) need to have the courage to provide a safe place to discover why it occurred in the first place and how to be more productive in expressing those tough feelings in a constructive, loving way.” Grace needs to be doled out to both parties, and while that doesn’t remove the initial sting of the experience, it can move us more quickly toward resolution.
Well, thinking about this some more, I suppose that someone who is normally not a yeller will probably only yell when under extreme duress. So in that situation, I agree with you that both parties need to understand the situation, because the yelling was out of character and was a normal response to a bad situation or to really bad behavior by the other person.
I’d distinguish that from someone who is just a “yeller” i.e. someone who frequently yells or raises their voice in a forceful or critical way in response to everyday frustrations and anxieties. I think that’s a problem, especially if it becomes abusive.
I think I’m thinking more of the second situation, and you are thinking more of the first situation.
WTF are you trying to say?
That women have no right to tell men not to feel what we feel, I’d imagine. That if they’re afraid – or uncomfortable – that they have to learn to deal with those emotions and face up to the situations they find themselves in rather than trying to do with rhetorical equivalent of running away.
From a very early age, men are taught to do just that. We are told that sometimes you have to do things you don’t like to do, that we have to take responsibility for our actions, face the music, take our medicine – however you want to put it. We are told that if people are angry with us, that chances are we did something to earn that anger. We are not told that we are such fragile little princes that nobody ever has the right to raise their voices at us, or that if they do, it is somehow the equivalent of abuse.
Deal with it. Face it. Anger almost never results in violence – the costs of violence are too high, and we are socialized to avoid it if at all possible. The thing is, men learn that sometime in their early 20′s. Women never seem to think they have to.
You have a right to your anger, perhaps, but I have a right to walk away if I dn’t like how you are expressing yourself.
Exactly. That is the mature response.
You do have that right, but you DON’T have the right to tell someone not to express themselves. That’s the whole point.
So we need have no concern for another’s inner wellbeing. How very individualist.
@pwlsax
Not at the expense for your own inner wellbeing, no.
A lot of women think they understand social violence as used by men. They don’t, really.
Most of it is posturing. Women may feel threatened very easily, and they instinctively learn how to manipulate male behavior (as men do with women), especially violence. Shaming men for something to acquire momentary power is relatively common. Intimidating women – even if unintentional – is also relatively common. The truth is that male dominance is something that comes naturally to men; social niceties are used by women to control and also as tools in social relations. Men have similar tools, but the implicit threat of violence is inherenent in everything male: size, posture (often), a deeper tone, gestures. It’s what men use with each other.
however, women misunderstand this, by and large. it’s why fights between women, when they get physical, or when they start breaking down social niceties, tend to be death-battles. There’s no quarter given nor expected, either socially or physically.
When women engage with men in a male manner, they mistake much of the casual social posturing for actual threats or violence. I think it’s generally why women who are in male worlds often come across as really pushy or outrageously aggressive or dangerous–
they get the surface cues, that men use, but not the underlying intention. And intention is everything. Men have their own social patterns that they read, and learn to read, in the company of other men.
What’s tellign is that men raised largely by women without a male player involved often fail to learn to navigate this world of show-and-display – they resort to actual aggression, social or physical, more often.
Men fail to pick up on women’s cues, too; many are the men who just don’t see the seriousness of a woman’s anger, or misread the social cues among a group of women.
In a real sense, I think men and women project their own behavoirs onto the other gender and make mistaken assumptions.
Sarah,
I think you may have missed the point of my post…
I’m not talking about instances when you think you’re not yelling but actually you are. I’m talking about instances when you really aren’t and certain people are just protecting that onto you. In this case, women projecting the concept of yelling onto male voices when they’re clearly not yelling.
Maye the issues the definition of yelling?
I would assume that if someone says “stop yelling” it’s because I’ve raised my voice. And to them, I sound like I am yelling. One person might just be over sensitive, but if it is happening a lot, maybe I need to ask myself how I am coming across to others.
My father claims he doesn’t yell, but he has a very loud voice, and he’s cranky and bad tempered. I’ve had to tell him many times that if he doesn’t stop yelling, I am going to get up and leave. And I’ve done it. This makes my dad really angry and he insists he’s “not yelling,” he’s just “upset” or he’s just “expressing his opinion” or he’s just “letting off some steam.” See what I’m saying? He thinks he is entitled to “blow off steam” whenever he feels like it, and if other people are upset, it’s their problem.
My usual response, when I feel that someone is communicating in an inappropriate manner, is to say “stop yelling” and if they won’t, I end the conversation. I will say very nicely, “I’m hanging up the phone/leaving the room/whatever, and we can continue this conversation when you are calmer.” I refuse to get drawn into a yelling match with people, because once one person raises their voice, I feel I have to raise my voice to be heard.
Maybe some people don’t think they were yelling at me but when someone is heated, emotional, and loud, I consider that “yelling.” It upsets me, and I don’t believe I am required to stand there and feel upset.
I think you should consider that when someone says “don’t yell at me,” it’s because you upset them and made them uncomfortable. Again, there could be individual people who are unreasonably sensitive, so the issue is whether you are getting this message from multiple people.
Finally, women are often worse offenders than men when it comes to being loud and emotional in their communication style (I.e., “yelling”), because women don’t think of themselves as being too forceful and don’t hold themselves back.
Yelling unreasonably is also wrong and (I’d agree) something I’ve seen both genders do. Sorry to hear you went through that
“I have told both men and women to stop yelling. I don’t think it’s gendered at all.”
It isn’t if you do it, because you say it to men and women. But that’s you. it can still be totally gendered when somene else does it. He should be dating someone healthy like you and ditch those other losers.
I posted this on Facebook, but thought I’d share with you here with all the other peeps.
Honestly, I thought women were the ones always blamed for yelling when speaking passionately about something. Perspective, I guess.
Of course, it could just be me, but I’ve been told not to yell, when I’m just talking. I’ve always wondered if it was a guy thing, a particular hubby thing, or a me thing. I have a strong voice and I would never say I am soft-spoken. In fact, the opposite. I always try to be nice to people, but I’m still taken wrong at times because of my strong, passionate voice.
Now, I am more open to see that it happens on both sides of gender; so perhaps it is a personality-thing. 
Thanks for the article!
Hey, you’re welcome! =)
I was thinking the same thing. My husband has definitely asked me to stop yelling far more often than I’ve made the same request of him. Though usually when I say “Stop yelling” it’s to get him to calm down a little bit because he’s overheating in proportion to the situation.
Yelling is something I learned from how my parents fought with each other (which was uncommon, but usually very loud). A way of forcefully getting my point across and conveying how upset I am. Not a great communication habit, I admit. But in the moments when I’m upset enough to actually yell, I tend to not be giving it too much thought – I do it because it feels good to display force.
Anyway, I don’t think I’d personally tell a man to stop yelling unless he was actually yelling enough to upset me. In the model my parents set, my dad yelled just as much as my mom (Mom was just louder) so I guess I don’t find it threatening by itself. He yelled at me, too, on the occasions I deserved it – and it was definitely scary – but not so much that any raised male voice is some sort of trigger.
I’m sorry, Zek, that this has been your experience and apparently with more than just one woman. I find it bizarre and unjust.
I appreciate your sentiments KKZ =)
And it’s a good thing for you to point out how our experience differed from mine. It helps me keep perspective.
I don’t like yelling either. My dad learned to tolerate it growing up in the 40s – you had to, to be a good kid then – and in the Navy he found he had a way with it, so it became a tool of leadership for him. I got my share of it in school as well, as I had undiagnosed learning and attention issues.
I believe, much to my regret, that men are expected to raise their voices to others and stand still when voices are raised to them. It’s absolutely essential in sports and military training. It’s also one of the things I don’t like about being a man. If I yell at you, it’s because I want to hurt you. So anybody yelling at me doesn’t get their message across. I just hear the hurt.
I think this issue may have less to do with how men are perceived by women, and more to do with how women perceive other people. Of course I can only speak for myself, but I often ask my boyfriend to “stop yelling” when he begins to emote a lot of anger or frustration, however, I would do the same if one of my female friends became angry as well. I, and it would seem a lot of females I know, have a hard time dealing with other peoples negative emotions, although we often boast a prominent understanding of our own feelings.
For me, asking some one to “stop yelling” is my way of informing some one that the way they are speaking to me is making me uncomfortable. That being said, I would expect that the other person would respect my feelings and at least question the way they were speaking and change it.
Yes, setting boundaries when you feel uncomfortable is perfectly appropriate. Well said.
But where the mistake often lies is when that boundary-setting is not followed up with and understanding of WHY the person was yelling in the first place. Was it anger, fear, insecurity, etc. that brought the two parties to this point? Often, it’s forgotten that someone raising his/her voice is just as wounded and hurt as the person on the brunt end.
So, basically, you’re not really telling him not to yell. You’re telling him that he has no right to be angry.
And you think that’s better?
Really, when someone is angry with you, you are always going to be uncomfortable – particularly if you know that you’ve done something wrong. Telling people that they have no right to show that emotion is an attempt to police their feelings – and to dodge accountability on your part.
What is it about some women that makes them think they should never have to feel uncomfortable? That they should never have to deal with adult situations? I’m sorry, but dealing with the fall-out from your actions is an important part of being an adult. If you want to be treated like an equal, that means facing up to what you’ve done and not burying your face in a pillow.
In my opinion, relationships require understanding and an ability to truly listen. If I’m feeling threatened by the way my partner chooses to express himself, I’m not going to be able to really listen, am I? If I express to him that I’m feeling uncomfortable by asking him to lower his voice, then he has every right in the world to refuse, as he is a grown human being who makes his own decisions. However, that wouldn’t be very understanding of him.
Sometimes discussions, even negative ones, become bogged down in the tedium of constant consideration. I feel that this is usually necessary to have a safe and productive disagreement.
On a side note, I don’t know how you took the concept of me asking my partner to “stop yelling” and turned it into “burying your face in a pillow”, but you’re right, I couldn’t bury my head in a pillow and expect to be treated like an adult. That would be silly, and ideally, my love would express the ridiculousness of my actions, I would hear him out, and we would both make attempts at understanding each other.
“If I’m feeling threatened by the way my partner chooses to express himself, I’m not going to be able to really listen, am I?”
You could if you were really committed to the relationship – that’s what men are expected to do with women, even abusive ones – or if you cared about what the other person was feeling as much as you care about your own feelings. But from what you have already said, it’s clear that that is not the case. It’s clear that you think your boyfriend’s job is to make you feel comfortable. For his sake I hope you dump him
I’m really sorry that you feel the need to be so judgemental.
If you had read my comment as it was intended, it would be clear that it was not “HERE ARE MY SPECIFIC RELATIONSHIP BOUNDARIES”, but rather “Here are some examples of give and take everyone needs to make if they want to have an emotional discussion without any one getting unnecessarily hurt”.
By saying that I’m not going to be able to listen properly, I”m not implying it’s a conscious choice being made. If I’m feeling at all threatened, I simply won’t be able to truly hear him out because my mind will be focusing on self preservation and keeping myself safe from any possible threat.
Also, I usually don’t like to do this sort of thing, but I would like to clarify that my boyfriend and I do not have heated arguments in which I’ve ever felt threatened enough not to hear him out, and I believe he would say the same thing. I’m very sorry if my partnership in which you are not included, know nothing about, and possibly can’t understand, has offended you.
You seem to have no problem assuming that other people’s expression of emotions are conscious – that they can control what they feel.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. You expect other people to control themselves, so better be willing to do it yourself.
What if the other person’s anger is unjustified or unreasonable? Or what if it is over something trivial? Why are you assuming that the recipient of the anger is necessarily in the wrong?
There are two things going on. Even if someone is wrong, you hear them out. that’s one possibility. It’s part of being an equal partner in a relationship, as opposed to being the fragile damsel who has to be coddled and made to feel a lady. The other possibility is as you suggest, that the expression of anger is just a manipulative control tactic.
This sounds like the male counterpart to “gaslighting” when women are told to be overreacting? Wow, humans really mess with each other.
Wow. Awesome article. Two of my ex’s did this all the time. I can be an emotional person but I am also very aware of my reactions to things. So I am aware of when I’m not yelling and when I am. So as soon as one would say “you don’t have to yell”, that immediately lead me to raise my voice at which point I was beginning to yell. Come to think of it my mother said that alot as well. Hmmm, I’m sure there’s some Freudian thing going on there.
It could also be your body language…Isn’t that what 90% of communication is? Your stance, your look, your gestures could all make it seem like you are “yelling” when your speech is not…
I noticed that after I started taking karate, other people were taken aback by me when I spoke…and I think it was small subtle things that changed (prior to karate I was having panic attacks)….I think I was imitating my karate instructor, who is big and overwhelming, like Brando as Stanley Kowalski….sometimes if I am away from class for a few weeks and come back to it, I am unaccustomed to his way of speaking and it takes a while to get used to it..he will be explaining some maneuver and gets a little impatient if we don’t get it right away…to him, he probably feels he is just talking normally, while to me, it feels like he is reprimanding me…and I have to look away because his words sting (even though he doesn’t mean them to)….
Thanks for this post, Zek. I need to borrow your “stop projecting” response. I’m often either told to “stop yelling” or asked in online conversations, “are you yelling at me?” when I am not yelling or angry, I’m simply expressing or trying to explain something that I feel strongly about. Even if I am angry, it is often directed elsewhere (at the subject I’m talking about) and the person I’m talking to assumes the anger is directly at them. Most of my angry outbursts when they do occur are only masking things like fear, confusion, or insecurity. In most cases, I’ve been able to talk this problem out and tell them my side and claim my right to discuss negative things or frustrated feelings, with a decent amount of success. But it is very debilitating to me to be told “stop yelling” when I was clearly not. It makes me feel unheard and that brings up all of my ugly ghosts from an abusive past. This article is awesome. Again, my thanks.
Thanks W.R.R.! I’m always glad when my articles evoke at least 1 person (or more) to respond and appreciate. I totally understand how difficult it is to be trying to express yourself — something we men are not typically allowed to do — and then have someone, anyone, trying to stop you from doing so because they’re projecting their own insecurities are prejudices onto your voice.
I’ve often mentioned the corollary in regards to Black hair. Natural Black hair has often been stereotyped as ugly, or radical, etc., which are actually just projections that have nothing to do with the hair itself. Now, while gender and race aren’t completely identical enough to make a side-along comparison, the lesson is: a thing in of itself has no inherent meaning and it’s only the baggage we saddle it with does it begin to have any. This can be good or bad, but frequently is bad.
Just to say, that even social or casual “violence” is often misread. Women often use niceties to cover this up, hence the stereotypical nice girls who are really at each others’ throats – though the men never see this. So women may be reading the confrontation as conflict, when for the men it’s either just empty posturing, habitual posturing, or actually content-free declarations.
Also, women are usually masters of most social situations, and read them better than men. But these particular male cues are often too subtle for women, because we all try to read the other person’s intention. The surface structures may be the same, even – but the mens’ intentions may not be.
A man may never intend violence, verbal or otherwise; the implied threat isn’t even really there. For a woman, the social niceties may be important paper covering over inherent power imbalances. For the man this isn’t an issue.
So I suspect there’s a dual mechanism at play here. Women are perceiving male behavior through a female lens. Men are misunderstanding the female reaction. She’s not angry at his yelling – she’s bothered by the confrontation. With her female friends, this would be an outright emotional attack or would not be tolerated, or would be a sign of hostility (remember all the social grooming women do, agreeing with each other when they don’t agree at all, and that this is severely gendered behavior).
So when the man behaves in this way, the woman misreads it as an actual social judgment, attack, or threat; the man never intended it this way.
The bigger issue is that it’s assumed that the man must adjust his parameters to fit the female standard – and not the other way around.
As an aside, I’ve noticed that many women in leadership positions continually misread the men around them, and are “tougher” and as a result more aggressive. Half the time in boardrooms and meetings, I’ve noticed that the women perceive conflict where the men see none. For men, social posturing may be almost ritualized, and women by and large completely misunderstand this ritualization almost all the time.
I remember my significant other once said to me that after a meeting with some clients, we had dinner, and she said it seemed tense and troubled. And yet, the rest of us, all men, were more than fine – we were just relaxed. She said she just couldn’t understand how we could be so casually aggressive with each other (verbally), and yet without the slightest indication among us that we’d been that way.
What *was* missing was the constant back-scratching that many women in groups engage in, qith qualifying statements and empathetic utterances. Those were lacking. And for all that, the “aggression” she saw was wholly ritualized, almost pro-forma.
As much as I may not “get” female social grooming, on an instinctive level, I know its effects in groups of men: It’s often disruptive. Either women push men to actual aggression, when it could have been avoided, or they’re even more aggressive, to compensate, not picking up on the posturing nature of it.
of course, in actual intimate relationships, all this comes into play plus the normal power tripping each partner gets into.
Trying to sort that mess out is a nightmare. This article does make a good go at it.
what shocks from reading it is this:
Almost never is this written about from a male perspective. I felt almost ashamed to read it, but this is because it’s almost always, always, women complaining about men – never men complaining about how women interpret things.
I, at least, have internalized the tendency to view the “Female” as “right” in social situations, and the male as inherently suspect or wrong.
If so many numerous people have told you to stop yelling, maybe YOU ARE YELLING.
By the way, the definition of yelling is to “speak in a very loud voice”
so when you say… “as soon as I start raising my voice to be heard” to you doesn’t mean yelling even if the actual definition of yelling is what you yourself described.
Sounds like you’re in denial.
Well I tend to speak very quietly and people tell me to speak up a lot, so I don’t have that problem, however, I do get a lot of people telling me that I am angry when I am talking on-line when I am not. I suppose that’s much more subjective than the volume of a sound. Still I tend to take it at face value. I know my own emotional state but I tend to believe that they thought I was angry for some reason.
I don’t know why this happens, and when it does happen I am not usually in a place to ask about it. I wonder if I behave outside of people’s expectations so they tend to throw around at an explanation and perhaps they think, “If i was behaving that sort of way then I think it would be because I was angry“. Well how else would anyone go about making a guess at someone’s emotional state except by such a calculation? But I don’t really know.
My wife yells. Not badly, but I sometimes tell her to stop shouting. She really hates that but I hate getting shouted at. Maybe that’s because I associate shouting with anger — if I was shouting I’d have to be really mad about something. But she just doesn’t seem to realise she’s shouting at all. I guess it’s just not a big deal to her. Not significant because it doesn’t mean anything?
@Zek
A funny one from many years back. I was taking my nephews out for a day trip and when we got in the car I looked at them and said, “who’s the boss”, they say “Uncle John”. I say it slightly firmer and they reply again “Uncle John”. I repeat myself one last time and they both scream out “Uncle John”. Good, now lets go have fun! A few weeks later Grandma is in the car and asking the boys, “Who is the boss here” when both of them yell out “Uncle John, he`s the boss`!
Nobody ever taught me that men were just fcuking around when they got angry. I almost had my face redecorated once or twice as a kid when I turned my back on other boys’ angry words.
Hey, I have an idea Zek might approve of. David Brooks is saying boys need military values and boot camp ethos in the schools. How about if teachers had to learn to chew ass like drill instructors? If parents complain, send in R. Lee Ermey or somebody to tell them what pieces of sh!t they are.
It’s called tone policing. It’s quite common – google it. Real friends will not tone police. If someone is tone policing you, simply point it out and tell them to stop.
So, upon reading comments from women on this and the ‘Gaslighting’ articles, I get the following message:
When a woman is upset and yelling, it is not okay for a man to tell her to calm down and stop overreacting because that would invalidate her feelings and make her uncomfortable.
When a man is upset and yelling, it is okay for a woman to tell him to calm down and stop overreacting because he isn’t being sensitive to her feelings and is making her uncomfortable.
Got it.
Even after all the comments and opinions about yelling, I think the most important thing to remember is that everyone involved wants, and should expect, to be respected. If someone’s raised voice is done in a way that they are being disrespectful, then it’s not right. If someone is upset and just blowing off some steam, determine if it’s a concern (continually happens) or if it’s a once in a while event. Loved ones are not perfect; some are passionate…even over-passionate…about different topics. It’s knowing who is standing in front of you that gives you the answer.
In reply to the comment by Ginkgo…
“It’s part of being an equal partner in a relationship, as opposed to being the fragile damsel who has to be coddled and made to feel like a lady.”
Women should always be treated well. God made women to be more sensitive and emotional…at least most of us. It takes a real man to know when to coddle and when to treat her like one of his buds. Just because a woman is more sensitive or emotional does NOT make her unequal to her male counterpart. It makes her a woman.
The next time you watch children play, pay attention to the difference in how they play, talk, even draw. I’ve recognized the vast difference most recently with my grandchildren. One scribbles over the entire page, while the other confines to a small spot. One is calm, less roudy, while the other is banging this and that.
I know that females and males have different personalities, and that stereotyping is not the complete answer, but I had to address the lady and fragile damsel comment. It hit home to what I’m passionate about….Loving with Purpose.
Thanks
Kim
I have never been accused of yelling encouragement & or agreement…..
Me, man and boy, I’ve made a living in noisy environments- projection is second nature.
Oh and what makes it worse- I have a deep voice.
This has happened to me on many occasions, and I’m female. If I should happen to say something that’s disliked, a disagreement with what’s been said, a correction of a misinterpretation, a reiteration of a fact that’s being twisted or omitted, I get back: “Stop yelling”. (This alternates with, “That’s not what I asked you.” though I am certain when interrupted with this that I was, in fact, answering the question that was, in fact, asked of me.) Half the time I stop, and consider, and am convinced I wasn’t yelling at all. Yet I have to modulate my voice somehow, or the interruptions keep coming with that same assertion that I am, in fact, yelling. By that point I’m often so frustrated with the constant interruptions and untrue assertions that I do begin yelling. Then I feel ashamed for losing my cool, and angry that I was so easily manipulated out of saying my piece… again. It’s maddening.