Nicole Johnson explains that while women are gaining equality in the 21st century, the dating marketplace still places an unfair burden upon men.
In the 21st century, women’s equality continues to thrive, permeating all aspects of society and industry. However, there is one area where women consistently have more power over men: the dating marketplace.
In the dating marketplace, women have a distinct advantage over men because of gender. The demands women face are not commensurate to the extensive requirements placed upon men. Consequently, dating is not an equal playing field.
If you’re a woman in the dating marketplace, all you have to do is show up. That’s it ladies, that’s all you have to do; your presence is the prerequisite. Women are naturally alluring. The female mystique is intriguing and intoxicating. Regardless of beauty, bank account, dress size or shape, men love gazing at women while basking in their femininity. In fact, regardless of sexual orientation, women love looking at other women. Moreover, you could survey every woman in America and they would tell you the same thing: not only do they dress to impress men they dress to impress other women.
If you’re a man in the dating marketplace, the pressures and expectations are double that of a woman’s to make a first and lasting impression. The dating and relationship requirements placed upon men are staggering. Try placing yourself in a man’s mind and body for a moment. Take into account the demands he feels inside and outside of the dating marketplace.
If you dissect the evidence, men have greater difficulty than women forging through our dating society and should be given some latitude. For those of you who think I am being too lenient on men, I will provide you with substantial proof to support my theory.
There are pervasive stereotypes of American men. Here’s the short list: men are expected to be brave, men are expected to be confident, men are expected to succeed, men are expected to be dependable, men are expected to be proactive, and men are expected to be providers. Additionally, men are not allowed to flounder, men are not allowed to be vulnerable, men are not allowed to be weak, and men are not allowed to be overtly emotional.
Men also have to contend with these cultural clichés: “Grow a pair,” “Take your balls out of your purse,” and the ubiquitous, “Man Up.” Interestingly enough, the female equivalents to this vernacular are nonexistent. Imagine a woman saying to another woman, “Take your breasts out of your briefcase” or “Woman Up.” I didn’t think so.
Let’s take these expectations of men and add the demands of dating and relationships to the mix. In the dating marketplace, men are expected to be: bold, smart, funny, accomplished, charming, chivalrous, complimentary, and romantic. In conjunction with these attributes, men are expected to look stylish, have dynamic personalities, have great jobs and fabulous friends, pay for the check, read women’s minds, AND rock a woman’s world in bed. In fact, let’s add proficiency with post-coital cuddling to a man’s “good on paper” list while we’re at it.
To further emphasize the issue, here are supplementary stereotypical expectations of men: A man is expected to pay for the first date. A man is expected to initiate a conversation about asking for a second date (or several dates thereafter). A man is expected to hold the door open for a woman. A man is expected to “take the lead” by tipping the valet or checking coats. A man is expected to ask a woman’s father for her hand in marriage. A man is expected to propose marriage to a woman. A man is expected to be a family’s provider.
Can you see why the dating marketplace is more challenging for men? Can you imagine having to live up to these chivalrous standards? Can you see why women should be giving men a little leeway? I am not giving the men a free pass here; however, it is vital to highlight the incessant pressures they encounter.
Men obviously have expectations of women, and I’m extremely empathetic to the dating hurdles women have to overcome. However, they are not nearly as mandatory (or comparable) to what is required of men for dating and relationship success. Hence, let’s not delude ourselves. We all know certain men will never be given a chance if they do not live up to or meet the aforementioned criteria.
This is the 21st century, and yes, there is a shift in gender roles. Amen! Although, in romantic relationships, certain gender roles and expectations still exist and may always exist. By acknowledging the dating and relationship inequities between the sexes, along with the additional pressures men must combat, falling in love will become an easier process. So please, give the good men a break.
—Photo Dragunsk/Flickr
Tell me to man up all you want. I’ll beat your ass.
Reading this made me cry.
Its annoying. As a man. Im mostly just interested in sex. If I dont get sex frequent enough. I get sexually frustrated. Why cant women just be more sexually liberal?
This post had listed all the reasons MGTOW (men going their own way) is gaining the narrative
Sigh, women and their sense of reasoning.
Cant even begin to point out the logical fallacies in their arguments. So blinded by their own perspective
The traditional dating rules about men making the first approach aren’t only tough on men – they’re tough on both genders. If a woman has been conditioned by society (i.e. the media and comments by old folks) to feel that making the first approach makes her too pushy and manly or too easy, then it means that she doesn’t get to go after who she wants. It’s kind of like trying to look for a job without being allowed to contact any potential employers – for those of us who aren’t outstanding, it doesn’t work so well. So, the traditional… Read more »
This is so true… If would would reverse the roles and had to ask us men out and let us men have all the “requirements” they would feel the pain men go through. On the other hand men would never hear the end of it and there would be more than the already constant bit*ching and complaining among women. But us men definitely deserve a break in the dating marketplace. Yes women give us an effin BREAK!! Espacially the ones with the never ending “requirements” list and the ones that think there is this “perfect” god of a man that… Read more »
I know woman who’ve had bad experiences with men and men who’ve had bad expriences with woman.
There are things that both genders wish they didn’t have to do to attract the opposite sex, but what’s the point in trying to attract the opposite sex if you’re not going to do the things that attract them ?
I suppose because some of us choose quality over quantity – we hope to find someone who’s different, who’s not attracted to the same things most men are, but wants something more substantial, in which case there are all sorts of things I’d be able and willing to do to attract him. I’m sure there are men who are the same way – who don’t want to kill themselves with a high pressure career just to make a lot of money so they can attract more women – in the hopes that some women will appreciate him for who he… Read more »
There are core things that both gender needs to have to attract the opposite sex, weather it’s to have a one night stand or have a relationship.
Having the ability to provide for himself, his wife and their children is one of those core things.
I have been single for over 2 years, ive been on many dates and met different types of men, but the one thing that these men all seem to have in common is wanting to get straight to the nitty gritty ‘sex’ thats all they seem to have on their minds. i know you’re thinking that obviously im just meeting the wrong kind of men? and that may be so… but they come across as genuinly wanting to get to know me and then its hands all over if they get the chance, and when i explain that i just… Read more »
I know right??? Men are quick to want to jump in the bed, but dont like to be stereotyped as horndogs. Hmmmm!! I haven’t dated seriously in years for this reason. Too many men dont have a concept of taking the time out to get to know someone. I think men have always *wanted* to hit the sack ASAP, but nowadays they just have less manners and less patience.
Maybe if they thought they were going to see you again without you deciding you didn’t want to have anything to do with them at the drop of a hat, it would be different. Although I am sure you are a very nice person, you can blame the rest of your gender for your issues with this.
For the record, the man with patience and manners loses, nearly every time
I guy knows within the first 5 seconds if he wants to have sex with you. Its much more straight forward for us guys… Now later as a date progresses we will either find them less attractive or more attractive on the date. Its really that simple. Guys place women into two catagories. Women they want to get to know and have meet there mom. And women they just want sex with. Unfortunately if you have fallen within the I just want sex then he probably isn’t attracted enough to you to pursue you. You can’t change that so just… Read more »
While some men may have a harder time dating than other men, it doesn’t make sense to think that all men have a harder time dating than all women. Men and women exist in more or less equal numbers and every time a woman has a successful date, a man has a successful date, so it’s mathematically impossible for women as a gender to have more success dating than men.
Unless you consider the fact that men and women often judge what is considered a “successful” date by very different standards.
right out of my mouth
I agree that the dating marketplace is often unfair to men unless men write their own rules while learning how the games are played. “your presence is the prerequisite. Women are naturally alluring. The female mystique is intriguing and intoxicating. Regardless of beauty, bank account, dress size or shape, men love gazing at women while basking in their femininity.” WTF? Modern westernized women are fast losing out the ‘female mystic’ earlier generations of women might have had. Are you suggesting that Rosie O’Donnel, Brittany, Andrea Dworkin, Hillary, etc have/had some kind of female mystic? Guess what? Men increasingly see society… Read more »
Brittany Spears??? I thought she was popular with the manfolk. With the other examples I understand, but with Brittany I don’t. I don’t understand why men speak badly of a woman but they know damned well she will give him a hard on. *shrug*
Perhaps the author was a bit over dramatic with the femininity part, but by and large men do seem like ogling at women
“Brittany Spears??? I thought she was popular with the manfolk.”
Not from what I recall. I recall that mid-90s or so, the height of her appeal, it was high school girls who were paying her bills.
And that’s a whole separate problem, a very sad one. I remember practically getting cheers from girl students when I would accidentally on purpose call her “Brittany Spaniel”. They were sick to death of the hype around her form other girls. The boys were pretty oblivious, not much reaction form them.
If you’re a woman in the dating marketplace, all you have to do is show up.
I think you can make the case for why men deserve a break in the dating marketplace without making ignorant and ridiculous statements like this. And I think you should have.
“If you’re a woman in the dating marketplace, all you have to do is show up. That’s it ladies, that’s all you have to do; your presence is the prerequisite. Women are naturally alluring.”
Yeah, after around 10 hours of hair and makeup.
Otherwise perfect 🙂
Yeah, I tried to make this point earlier in the comments, and got all sorts of grief about it. 😀
Tis true. She did.
This is a joke right?
Over obsessing on your own make-up is equivalent to the male partner leading you through most of the date physically and financially?
If I had to sum up my thoughts on this thread so far:
1) Women don’t know what they want, so they throw everything at the board and hope that somewhere out of it a man will emerge whom they find attractive enough to want to date over the long term.
2) Men do know what they want, but in many cases they’ll never get it. Not because they can’t articulate it, but because the women they’re talking to simply don’t believe them.
Not following you. I do know what I want, for one thing. I won’t try to speak for anyone else.
As for whether I believe men when they say they know what they want, I take that on an individual basis… but there are a lot of individuals that I don’t believe simply because their actions don’t reflect what they say.
I suspect the women that complaining about the costs are chasing money and competing with a pool of women for a smaller pool of men and that’s why they feel like they have to give all that money to designers, its an effort to appear as wealthy as the men they are attracted to and stand out from the competition. Were they aiming equal or lower, or not just aiming up, the self imposed pressure wouldn’t be there.
I don’t doubt there are women like that, but I’m certainly not one of them. I don’t even like wealthy guys – most of them make me uncomfortable. I’m much more likely to date a broke artist or professor. The reason I complain about the cost of clothes and so forth is because I’m a sensible, frugal person with money and I think the women’s fashion industry is an insane ripoff. Either you buy cheap stuff that will wear out in a year and doesn’t fit properly, or you pay (in my opinion) way too much. Only other options are… Read more »
Why is it that every woman thinks she is the exception to the rule, and then tries to insist that most women are exceptions to the rule?
Huh? Where do I insist that anyone else is the exception to the rule? I said I believe men when they say that women chase after men with money or status, even though I don’t do that myself.
Part of it is that if LF (or me) finds themselves as an exception, they may also be surrounded by other community members who are like them. So….it doesn’t seem like an exception to us. Also, it might be that simply the people who choose to read and then those readers that choose to comment are the ones with the experience not like yours? Perhaps the women who are out for money and status while they date are not reading GMP? 😉 I have no doubt that you are expressing here honestly. You and I have talked a lot, and… Read more »
Yeah, I think you’re probably spot on about the more superficial people not being the ones who are likely to read GMP. And also that people tend to attract friends with similar values – I don’t have any female friends who are gold diggers because I’m not one. But it’s not like I don’t believe they exist. And Collin, you’ve done your share of generalizing yourself by saying things like “the vast majority of men don’t care whether you wear designer clothes.” Perhaps you mean that YOU don’t, and the men in your social circle. But for a woman who… Read more »
Well, I don’t know who is reading….it was a guess of course and an attempt at levity. Our commenters are very thoughtful people, I do know that.
After watching Millionaire Matchmaker i’m less surprised than normal to be reading what I do here from a dating coach. I’ve never dated a women who just ‘showed up’. They all tried very hard to connect to me, and I to them. But it is the chemistry that matters to men. If we truly are talking about dating, and not just a drunken hook-up at the bar. You seem to be confusing the two here. It’s insulting to be portrayed in such a light. That men are programmed and predictable to such an extent all we need is the presence… Read more »
Thank you… I agree. Dating is really stressful for both men and women, in probably the majority of cases. If you’re a wealthy guy or a supermodel-looking woman, it may be easier, but I don’t know that it’s any less difficult to find the right person among all those who are just projecting their fantasies onto you because of your looks and/or status.
I disagree LF. While I cannot say the level of stress women feel in dates, I can look at the objective world and see what the rules are for men and women. In my experience the party responsible for building chemistry (or what I would term: HEAT) is the man. Don’t get me wrong, there is some emphasis on the woman being engaged and pleasant, but women put a premium on men knowing how to have strong social skills in reading facial cues (even if hers are poor), know how to flirt and build sexual tension, break tension with humor… Read more »
If you’re a woman in the dating marketplace, all you have to do is show up. That’s it ladies, that’s all you have to do; your presence is the prerequisite. Women are naturally alluring. The female mystique is intriguing and intoxicating. Regardless of beauty, bank account, dress size or shape, men love gazing at women while basking in their femininity. In fact, regardless of sexual orientation, women love looking at other women. Moreover, you could survey every woman in America and they would tell you the same thing: not only do they dress to impress men they dress to impress… Read more »
Oh please. More lame excuses. Bummy cutoff jean shorts and flip flops are enough to get you noticed.
Manis and Pedis are female bonding, not aphrodisiac. The whole “ladies have to spend all our money so men will notice us” cliche is both false AND dismissive of the male burden.
You wanna guarantee men notice you? Initiate a conversation!
There, I just saved you half your paycheck.
I love this because it is so true!
It may get you noticed, but perhaps not in the way you want to be. I agree wholeheartedly that men do have it worse off than women in the dating world, but to dismiss female experience down to “all you have to do is show up” is incorrect. Well, perhaps if you’re just looking to be eyed up, get laid, or something hinging on your appearance…but otherwise, no. I often ‘work’ on dates. I work to see if we have things in common, I work to find out about his likes/dislikes, or keep the conversation flowing, or choose places/activities that… Read more »
Sorry, but the focus of this post is on expectations, not on your personal dating style (which I commend you for). On a first date, women simply need to “show up”. That’s it. You’re not even expected to spend any money. There’s a specific reason Nicole chose the word “mandatory”.
LOL… WOW have you packed a ton of assumptions into this post! 😀 Sorry, but what I said is true. I am *more* than willing to start conversations – I do it all the time and I’m very good at it. The result? I have tons of male *friends*. They all go home with someone who does all the things I mentioned (although they may not know it). Some of them have complained to me about their girlfriends or wives “insecurity” because they spend so much time in the bathroom doing their makeup and hair and clothes… they say “I… Read more »
Why are you referencing what girlfriends and wives do? This is about the dating marketplace expectations.. i.e. singe women and single men.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear: I have a lot of longtime male friends who are married or in a relationship now but were not when I met them. In a few of those cases I wanted to date them, and sometimes did the initiating, but it always ended up that they chose instead to date someone who does the “girly girl” thing in some way, and that’s who they ended up with. Yet they still wanted to be friends with me because I do have a lot of qualities they like (being a great conversationalist being one of them). I like… Read more »
If you initiate, whether you are man or woman, you will be rejected more often than not. That’s just the way it works. Most of the people in the world aren’t going to be interested in you(or any other individual).
A lot of women seem to think that they should hit the jack-pot the first time they approach a guy, and when they don’t, they claim that men “don’t really like to be approached by women”.
Yeah, that is a good point, and it hasn’t stopped me from ever initiating. I do have male friends who claim they don’t like it when a woman comes on to them, though, so not all guys like it.
I should add – I have male friends who claim they don’t like it when a woman comes on to them, and they back up their claims by their actions. That is, if we’re out somewhere and a woman tries to start something, the woman always gets rebuffed.
For whatever reason it’s not attractive. Plus in my case I would distrust the whole scenario and the motive of the woman. Here’s a tip. Don’t try to make your badass boyfriend jealous with the wrong guy. It could end up your guy going to the hospital.
Depends what kind of guy you approach. Your problem is you noticed a guy who was above your league. And shot for it. A guy usually has to do things financially for himself to get noticed, while a girl can be a high school drop out and still get noticed. Dont shoot for someone who obviously has the financial means to choose trophy wives.
“There, I just saved you half your paycheck.”
🙂 Bill her for your sound advice and don’t let her take advantage of you as a man.
LOL… too bad his “sound advice” was based on a whole bunch of completely faulty assumptions, as you apparently haven’t read.
The vast majority of men don’t care about you being in designer clothes. You can pick up a nice pair of jeans for $50. Shirts really aren’t that expensive either. We’re not staring at your nails, so you’re not doing it for us. Most of the stuff that you claim “women do for men” women do for themselves. That’s like me saying I go drink beer with my buddies for women. Oh the sacrifices and money I spend on beer, burgers, wings, and miscellaneous bar food so I can get attention from women. You don’t believe it and we don’t… Read more »
You’re making all sorts of assumptions here that simply are not true. I don’t, personally, do any of those things. You say that women do these things for themselves and not to impress men, because men don’t care. But they do. I couldn’t care less about any of those things but if I go out with a female friend who does, she is going to be the one who gets noticed. On the rare occasions when I’ve tried it, as an experiment, all of a sudden I have 20 guys all over me. I think there are 2 things going… Read more »
Two things here: 1) Preferences differ, but in my experience Collin is much closer to the truth about how men really feel than you are. I’ve seen plenty of girls without their make-up on, and I can tell you that the ones I found attractive remained attractive in my eyes when all of the make-up came off. This isn’t a universal… I can think of maybe three girls who look considerably better with all the make-up than they did without, but I can think of many more who I actually preferred without make-up on. In fact, my current and previous… Read more »
Yes, I understand all this, and that’s why I don’t get all “dolled up” like that – I don’t like the kind of attention I get for doing it, I don’t like that I’m getting objectified OR that the men are getting manipulated. The whole game turns my stomach. But, again, I’m not talking about heavy makeup and trying to look like a Lolita, or anything close. That’s something I’d just never do. But there are plenty of women who are tasteful in their style and not excessive about it, and yet they’re still spending a lot more time thinking… Read more »
Let alone SHOPPING for all those clothes. Gahhhhh.
All you’re really saying here then is that you do want to find a quality guy, but that you don’t think it’s worth putting in the time that’s required to land him. Again, I think we both agree that finding a man is easy, if you’re attractive. Where we part ways is in deciding what’s attractive and how much effort it requires. Personally, I do all of the things you’ve described and then some. Fashion was something that took a while for me to pick up, but now picking out a nice outfit in a store comes second-nature to me.… Read more »
Okay, all things except the make-up. But I do attention to my hair and grooming, and always do a walkthrough of my place and make sure everything is damn near spotless. Preparing to go out for me is as much a multi-hour affair as it is for any girl I know, and that seems to be true of nearly every guy I know who has consistent success with women.
LOL… you know, pretty much every comment I’ve made in this thread, someone has turned around into a negative thing, even if it goes around in circles, and no matter how many wrong assumptions you’re making in the process. 😀 First I point out that most women spend a lot of time on their appearance and people rush in and say “But you don’t need to do that! Guys don’t really care! That stuff is all for your own benefit or to impress other women!” Then I say I don’t actually do that stuff, and now I’m “not willing to… Read more »
It is funny that no matter what you’ve said, you’ve been disagreed with. Funny might not be the right word, but you know what I mean.
Yeah, exactly. It IS funny. But it’s not. 😀
Now about those $50 jeans. Since jeans are mostly what I wear, I can tell you a few things about them. It’s very rare that I can find an inexpensive pair of jeans that fit me properly (i.e. show off my figure in a flattering way). Women’s fashion is the biggest ripoff in the universe. Cheaper clothes are mostly made to fit either 90 pound teenagers (which I was at one time, and in fact for all of my 20s too, so it was easy to find cheap jeans then) or they’re baggy stuff for “plus sized” women. If you’re… Read more »
Ahhh… with a comment thread that is so adversarial in the men vs. women aspect, is it any surprise that our dating lives would follow? @LF: I agree with you on the whole fashion being a ripoff thing. I used to work retail years ago at a relatively upscale clothing store (our jeans topped out at around $160), and what you say was definitely true then as I’m sure it is now. But here’s the thing… you don’t really need that many pairs of jeans (I get comments on my dress all the time, and I wear the same three… Read more »
Totally agree with you on the great majority of this, actually.
LF says:
“Because if we don’t do this, no one is going to notice us.”
Women who don’t measure up in the beauty race (either because they’re not genetic superstars, or don’t want to dress up) are faced with the joys of being alone (i.e. forced celibacy) or having to initiate.
How sad it must be for these women that they are put into exactly the same boat as 90% of men. In other words, if they want a relationship they will have to grow a thick skin and initiate.
Slut.
You were talking about within-sex criticism aimed at people who are failing to live up to the gender role. It *is* mostly man on man stuff but when women want to shame another woman to be more feminine or perform the women’s role better they can go for “slut”.
Or call the other woman a bad mother, but there’s no real short phrase for that.
I don’t see how this compares at all.
Telling a guy to “Man up” or “Grow a pair” is asking him to engage in an active process. You’re telling him to go out into the world and do something with his given talents and abilities.
Slut-shaming is completely different. The only thing a girl has to do in this situation is not sleep around. It’s completely passive.
When I was single dating was a time of work and effort. The competition was strong and those ready to fight were successful in finding and building lasting relationships. The problem with dating today is lack of responsible commitment to finding lasting relationships.
Bingo!!! And of course lack of responsible commitment to MAINTAINING lasting relationships. Relationships shouldn’t be all work, but we do need to acknowledge tht some maintenance is necessary. We all know people (parents, grandparents, misc. relatives) that were married from youth to death. How did they do it? What was the day-to-day like? A fairytale? I doubt it. I think I’ve said it on this site before and I’ll say it again…I was raised in a family of true “til death do you part” relationships…and they all grew and struggled and fought, and reconciled, and showed love, support and humility,… Read more »
Yeah, I think that’s it. The dating game seems to have shifted from focusing on qualities that will lead to lasting relationships, and show the ability to maintain them, to much more shallow concerns. This puts me personally at quite a disadvantage, because I’m good at being a good partner and maintaining lasting relationships, but I’m not good at being a peacock and puffing myself up to attract someone.
Because they arent looking for “lasting” relationships. They are looking for money! lol
Its the 21st century. People need to stop looking for these so called lasting relationships. Even in the past. They didnt last. “responsible” guys had wives, mistresses, and concubines. You want to go back to 100 yrs ago. And guess what, people back then were promiscuous in their marriage.
Hey, how about an article on guys making female friends. That seems to be as difficult as dating. Somehow there is always some sexual element that can’t be removed. Now why is that so hard?
I dunno. Most of my friends are men so it’s never seemed that hard to me. Yes, there’s a sexual element there, but we’re adults. We deal with it.
A woman wrote this? Somebody wake me up. I think I’m dreaming.
You are dreaming. Now go back to sleep.
I agree with Nicole–that REAL men do have a lot of responsibility when it comes down to taking the lead and making their worth known to a woman. However, it is primarily a woman’s job to figure out on her own if these men we date fit the proper model to engage in a LTR. A lot of times, I find that men decide to put on this front of wealth, strength, and social prowess when all they want to do is shrink away from everything they’ve presented in the long run after only a few months into a relationship.… Read more »
You mean, we’re not always as amazing as we project ourselves to be on the first few dates? Someone alert the media, this is earth shattering news! Basically, you’re looking for your storybook prince charming who is almost as perfect a man as can possibly exist. Chances are, he is not and will never be interested in you because you simply aren’t up to his level. Every woman believes she deserves JFK Jr. and you all sit there waiting and waiting and waiting for JFK Jr. to come sweep you off your feet. I got new for you. He’s not… Read more »
Collin,
That was a great reply to her! I loved it. It’s often easy to determine if a woman is potentially worth a man’s future time and effort with their princess entitlement attitudes and narcissism. Women can try and put up the front yet most men are increasingly aware of how women play their games.
Colin, I don’t know you, but I wish I could shake your hand right now
You think a man’s job is to prove his worth to you. And then you think its your job to make sure he is prone to do so for all time. Hmmm. That makes you your own best “red flag”.
Entitled, spoiled and superficial… meet fake, comfortable and lazy.
I take it by emphasizing “Real Men” you mean socially and commercially attractive Males abound by eminent Prosperity.
Good luck on your search.
Kristen, I’m not sure if this relates well to Nicole’s argument, but my main criticism reading your comment (well other than the REAL men comment) is that women and men have been becoming very narcissistic in their choices of men and women. It seems that both sexes (absent solid foundations for marriage, and the prolonging of the dating market into later years of life) are putting the qualities that fire their attraction markers as “first, second, third, fourth”. In other words: for men, rather than accepting a woman of 8 beauty with sterling character traits, men are shooting for 10’s… Read more »
“… rather than accepting a woman of 8 beauty with sterling character traits, men are shooting for 10′s who are awful long-term mates (think very pretty b1tch).” Seriously, is dating women that are 8s instead of 10s really all that accpeting of women in general? Women that men consider “8s” are still rather beautiful. I don’t see the big difference between dating an 8 and a 10. How about a 5 with a sterling character? On a side note, I hate the whole rating people on a scale from 1-10. Its become a popular thing to do but I think… Read more »
I dislike it as well because is there really a standard? Does it depend culturally? Do the men who actually find a “5” attractive find it hard to justify if their peers ding them for not wanting a 10? Maybe he thinks that 5 is a 10. It’s redonkulous.
Yeah, I’ve noticed an awful lot of people on this site (both men and women) treat relationships as a math problem or a science project. They don’t seem capable of talking about it in emotional terms at all (except when getting pissed off and defensive). Its all about justifying one’s feelings with statistics or studies or rating systems. Even though I’m quite the science geek and have studied a lot of anthropology, this is like bizarro world to me.
When you are IN a relationship, it’s fine to look at it in emotional terms. When you are LOOKING FOR a relationship, it’s rather natural to think about it in terms of one’s chances of meeting someone.
I was referring to things like having rating systems, and some other GMPers’ tendency to buttress their own values with scientific studies that “prove” we evolved to behave like .
A single number rating for potential dates actually changes the way you view women… in a good way. Looking for 8’s (which are extremely diverse in terms of weight, age, height etc) is better than the typical “Barbie” mindset as it allows for more subjectivity and opportunity.
Ever play the the hot or not game? I betcha you’ll learn something about yourself.
Maybe this is just something I don’t have a problem with in the first place. I see a wide variety of guys as being hot, and I might see another guy with a lot of the same characteristics as one that I think is hot, and not think he’s hot. I can’t really imagine having a rating system.
In response to Erin:
Actually meant to say 8’s and lowers. Since this seems to be your only pet peeve, I’m assuming you agree with the rest of my point?
I agree in spirit with your argument of the rating system. But I don’t think there is anything wrong with mentioning the ratings in a conversation about generalities. It’s when you rate Specific people where I would agree with you. I do not do that, either in private or behind their back.
Real men like who? Even Jefferson cheated on his wife like hundreds of time. And they put his stupid face on a currency
I have wondered for a long time if the Pickup Artist Scene is an attempt at levelling the playing field of the dating scene. It essentially uses all the insecurites of women against them, in essence the way the women use a man insecurities against him. I wonder if this is why so many feminists are writing against it.
The PUA scene isn’t trying to level the playing field. They’re either trying to teach men how to actually be better at doing all the things Nicole described or how to act like they’re doing so. But even the best PUAs buy into the whole, we do this primarily because this is what women find attractive. The only group of men trying to level the playing field are the MGTOW groups. They’re saying to women, “The game is rigged. Either lower your expectations for us or raise them for yourselves. Until you do that, we’re not going to play.” Personally,… Read more »
Naw you have the PUA scene wrong. Ever heard of the phrase “careful what you wish for” or “reap what you sow”? Apply that to women’s dating choices. Like MGTOW, PUA’s put ALSO pressure for women to change… only the former is via ostracism and the other is through broken hearts.
If so, then I applaud both groups for taking action to correct the imbalance.
I think Nicole you have very bad experience with dating. Don’t worry things will change.
@ znakomstva – What an absurd comment, you don’t even know the author.
I agree with this article. I have seen my brothers and male friends struggle for years trying to date.
Yes, there is a distinct disadvantage to being a man in the dating market. So what can be done about it? The current situation favors women, so it’s not likely they’re interested in changing it to be more equitable. Men have no power in this situation, so we’re not ABLE to change it–at least, not directly. So what’s the solution? Either women need to recognize the injustice and change how they operate, or men need to raise the costs of accepting the status quo. MGTOW have pointed out the many advantages of the latter approach: “If dating is a sucker’s… Read more »
> “Grow a pair,” “Take your balls out of your purse,” and the ubiquitous, “Man Up.” Interestingly enough, the female equivalents to this vernacular are nonexistent.
The closest analogue I can think of is “put on your big girl panties”, but it’s still not quite the same meaning.