Editor’s Note: Hugo Schwyzer’s piece “I May Have a Son, but I’ll Never Know for Sure,” a version of which was printed on Jezebel, and excerpted Hugo’s own blog, where he also answered some questions that were brought up: “Do I Have a 13-Year-Old Son?” The post touched off a firestorm of debate, with almost 500 people commenting as the discussion rolled out across the internet. The piece below first appeared on Hugo’s blog in response to some of those comments. We thought it worth reprinting Hugo’s reactions here.
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If many of the comments around my 13-year-old son piece seem hostile, you should see the ones that were deleted in the moderation queue. The Men’s Rights Activists (MRAs) have stirred themselves into quite the tizzy, with posts like this one representing some of the more moderate response.
Leaving aside the admittedly complex specifics of the Hugo/Jill/Ted/Alastair situation, what strikes me is the way in which so many of the MRAs have framed this as a cuckolding issue. The term “cuckold” is a very old term for a man who unknowingly raises another guy’s biological children, thanks to an unfaithful wife. (See the wiki.) It’s not an accurate term to use in my scenario, but the fact that this is such a profound fear for some men is worth exploring.
One classic theory of patriarchy assumes that men’s desire to control women is rooted in the fear of being cuckolded. A woman is never in doubt as to who the mother of her child is, but for reasons of basic physiology, men can never have that same reassurance. The need to control women’s sexuality (insisting on pre-marital virginity and post-marital fidelity; female genital mutilation; the insistence on modest dress) may well all be rooted in responses to this ancient, fundamental masculine anxiety. It’s a cruel calculus: the more I can control the women in my life (and the less sexual expression I permit them), the greater the likelihood that my offspring will in fact be “mine.”
I don’t think I’d realized how alive and well this fear is. See this comment from Amir, whose words I noted yesterday:
I have a beautiful son and if he was not mine my world would end. And
yes, I would no longer love him if he didn’t have my genes. My genes
makes him my son before all the environmental influences.
Another MRA commenter at GMP compared cuckolding to rape, only worse. Daniel writes:
This is horrifying.
Cuckolding is the worst thing that can happen to a man. If my son would have the genes of another man my life would end. This is much worse than a rape and is accepted unpunished by the justice system. Rape can last for several minutes but this is years and years of deceit and lies. I despise all the men and women supporting/understanding this.
If you read through the lengthy and often vile comment sections at GMP and Jezebel (or at the “Voice for Men” site), you’ll see that Amir and Daniel are, alas, far from unusual in their insistence that love depends upon shared DNA.
As a father, I have nothing but contempt for any man whose love is contingent as Amir’s and Daniel’s so clearly is. If I were to find out that Heloise was not my biological daughter, I’d be stunned (and shocked at my wife’s deception.) It might change my relationship with Eira — but it sure as hell wouldn’t change my relationship with Heloise. Coming from an extended family where half-siblings and adoptees and step-children abound, I know how absurd it is to link devotion and biology. What makes Heloise “mine” has damn all to do with my DNA — and everything to do with the energy and devotion and commitment I have put into my relationship with her since she was in her mama’s womb.
There is nothing wrong with expecting a partner who has promised to be faithful to keep that promise. (A reminder, Ted and Jill were not in an exclusive relationship when she last slept with me.) It’s perfectly reasonable to be devastated by betrayal. But there’s a world of difference between the hurt of infidelity and the fear of being cuckolded. Eira made me a promise when we were married that she wouldn’t sleep with other men. If she broke that promise, it would alter my relationship with her significantly. But Heloise made no such representations. The circumstances of her conception (and the sperm used to conceive her) have nothing — nothing — to do with my devotion to this remarkable little girl, whose sweetness would be no less delightful if she didn’t have my DNA.
It’s telling that the atavistic fear of cuckolding still runs so strong in the men’s rights activists. And given that so many of them are associated with the “father’s rights” movement, it’s telling as well that their definition of “father” is so fragile, so contingent, so limited, and so utterly narcissistic.
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Photo by fekaylius / Flickr
You truly need therapy and need to be put in your place just as a child does. Do you hate yourself and everyone around you so much as to promote this? This is part of the problem of people not valuing life. Yes you should value life that is not genetically your own as well, but that doesn’t mean you are suddenly responsible for the vile behavior of others and that these horrendous acts shouldn’t go unpunished. Here is the thing, the crime in itself won’t go unpunished. Eventually this will come back to haunt you in your own life… Read more »
I was hoping you would have explored the fear more, as that is what I came here to learn about. Instead you attack the MRA.. For me, it is the knowing waste of resources in raising another mans DNA. It means that it was not my DNA getting passed on and a chance to propagate into the future. It means this dude, managed to con me into spending my resources on his dna propagation then his own.. It really boils down to a fear of our dna not being passed on. I know it is with me. If I found… Read more »
Wtf is wrong with you hugo? A woman lies and cheats a man and he finds his kid isn’t really his, and he’s a narcissist for it?
If DNA doesn’t make for fatherhood then it doesn’t really make for motherhood either. Lets just switch babies around in the hospital nurseries. After all you don’t need to share DNA to be a parent.
Sorry having a hard time typing. On my phone
I can see both sides of this story. I think any interruption in teds familys lives right now would be completely wrong. I do think that both jill and hugo acted selfishley at the time. But my question is if Ted. Ted is now the father in everyones mind,why is Jill still keeping in contact with hugo? If ted has been deceived all these years, if Jill does feel like ted has somewhat been possibly. Been misled. Why would she risk communication. With him? Does she still have some emotional bond with hugo? I find this very dangerous
And it costs a lot when a woman cheats, especially if it’s a male prostitute, or gigolo, or stripper. You need to write an article telling women the high cost of cheating on their husbands of boyfriends as far as getting pregnant by the manstress (male mistress) goes as well as the dangers such as verbal and physical abuse, rape, kidnapping, murder, etc. Women who cheat typically face those dangers, especially from their manstresses. And manstresses can be violent as well, sometimes robbing or killing the woman’s husband or boyfriend, molesting, and kidnapping their children as well. But women cheat… Read more »
No one here talks about the kids right to know where he comes from.
Most of the scenarios here involve a wife deceiving a husband. What about cases when a husband wants his wife to have another man’s baby? For example, a white man who would love to raise a black baby from his white wife?
Cuckolding doesn’t have to be deceptive. I would love to have a sweet white wife who would bless me with beautiful black babies to love and raise. The cuckold doesn’t always have to be a victim, sometimes he can be an excellent parent and an understanding, loving husband.
Get therapy.
I think this subject is too complex to be discussed in a short essay. Yes, finding out the child you raise does not change how you feel for them. But that doesn´t mean the situation shouldn´t be open. My father in law was raised by his stepfather but was told he was his real dad and that was a decision his stepfather and his mother made together (she was pregnant when they met). Yet he FELT he was not his son and that he couldn´t be his dad. He was different from his two brothers and they explained that by… Read more »
These days the world cuckolding means a whole lot more than just raising another man’s kids. In fact, what these these guys in the MRA article comments misunderstand is that the world cuckolding comes from the cuckoo bird where the male bird understands the eggs may or may not be his. These men act like they don’t know the women are out running around. And please, with comments like that who would even want them as fathers anyway? I can see their point of not wanting their wives to sleep around, but to take it out on the poor kids… Read more »
I think the fear some men have of being cuckolded is based upon false demands for spousal support. The magistrates make a big deal of fathers acting in a responsible manner and paying spousal support to assist in the care of their children, often when they get little or no access. When courts enforce payment but do not enforce binding agreements of access, it is easy to see why paternity becomes important. I have helped raise and educate another man’s child when I was in a relationship with a single mother; I knew what I was getting into and I… Read more »
Wake up TRANShuman, those who think they can be above their human condition are destined for failure and pain. Wake up. You can’t overcome your humanity. What you can do is accept it and do the best you can. Men should have the right to know if it’s their child or not, whether women can kill their unborn child legally or illegally. They are not mutually exclusive.
Two main points:
1) If we’re being honest…. we have to say that for the average man, fatherhood is fragile and narcissistic. Often – it doesn’t take much for a man to abandon his kid(s).
2) Cuckholding? Deliberately deciving someone in this way is morally wrong. We all know this.
“Fathering has everything to do with being present after conception and after birth, and very little with providing the sperm to fertilize an egg” That’s true, but why should the mother be the one who decides who is present after conception ? The reason mandatory paternal dna testing should be done is mother, father and child all have rights…..not just mom. I hope someday Alistair shows up at your doorstep and asks why your refused to be his father. I guess the honest answer that his mom decided would be too much to ask for, not to mention that if… Read more »
Best comment!
I’m probably one of the more sympathetic to Hugo’s intentions here, but I still must take issue. I completely agree that “fatherhood” doesn’t depend on a biological connection. But the deception denies the man the choice. Ideally Ted would be aware that Jill was not sexually exclusive at the time of conception so he can process that and determine how that knowledge affects his own value set. I believe were he told even now, a good man, like Hugo says, would not let the revelation affect his decisions with regard to the child, though they might with the mother/wife. But… Read more »
I believe were he told even now, a good man, like Hugo says, would not let the revelation affect his decisions with regard to the child, though they might with the mother/wife. But that’s the trick. Its real easy to talk about Ted being told now, over ten years later, and then morally grandstand over Ted and insult him if he doesn’t make “the right” choice (its pretty clear that people think that Ted leaving would be wrong to the point that they won’t even consider Jill’s part in it). So I agree with Hugo’s general point that the cuckolding… Read more »
Hugo, your little response piece about DNA vs. nurture parenthood is an obvious attempt to deflect from your outrageous and egregious participation in the deception of another person. Picking and choosing comments in an attempt to discredit the MRA does nothing to take away from the fact that you made a choice that reeks of selfishness and brings into question both your morality and manhood. Shame on you.
But if raising a child is what makes you the parent, why do you refer to the other boy as your son? I agree that love is what makes you a parent and that shouldn’t disappear if you discover they don’t share your genes, but I think it would be a terrible blow. The other guy deserved to know that he was going into a situation where the child might not be his biologically. He could have made a choice then. Your friend cheated him by hiding this. What really bothered me about the article was that you promised not… Read more »
Red, you *choose* to be a step-parent. Those who are cuckolded are deceived into raising another’s child as their own. If it’s no big deal, why hide it? Why marry a man letting him think a child is his, if it’s ‘no big deal’? The child is conceived through deceit. It’s not a good start for a marriage, it’s lying.
Hugo’s fine with all of this, but how does Ted feel? That’s the problem, Hugo. You excoriate MRAs who say being cuckolded is an awful thing, and then write this article, the gist of which is ‘I might be a Dad and i might not, but I’m not going to find out because’ , and you state that the women you possibly got pregnant told the other guy it was his ‘because she needed to’ be Ted’s baby’. Used (possibly)your baby to grab the brass ring she was reaching for. He seems like a nice man, he married her. Would… Read more »
Narcissism to me, would be walking away from your own child because you’re ‘not ready’. I suppose this piece as to show how liberal and open-minded you are, a nice warm pro-feminist piece but it just comes off as shallow. You really feel you (either of you) have no moral obligation to the man who has been possibly deceived for 14 years!? That’s a good point. As much as people like to go on and on about men walking out on their children I get the feeling this instance was given a free pass was simply because Ted was in… Read more »
oops hit submit too soon.
Also. Does this mean that a “real man takes responsibility for his actions…..unless he can pawn them off on another man”?
People become hung up over the DNA = my kid thing, but never remember the role of stepparents. My own father was never there–he left when I was 2, and reentered my life when I was 16, albeit only when it served his own purposes. My stepfather raised me, and is my dad, even though I don’t use that term with him. This situation is very common nowadays. The real issue is the selfish deceit of a dishonest wife. It’s like women who think that getting pregnant is an 8-pound annuity to cling onto a successful man (which is in… Read more »
What would the reaction be if we took the deception one level deeper. Suppose that Ted is in the nursery after delivery and notices Alistair is dead of SIDS. The baby of a single unwed teenager that looks remarkably like Alistair is in the crib next to his. He switches the babies and now it Jill that is raising a baby that is not hers based on Ted’s deception.
I think the reaction here would be quite different. Who’s the good man here now?
An analogy: My friend Karim is a practicing Muslim. Sometimes I invite him over for dinner. Karim doesn’t eat pork and I respect that. When I cook for us I avoid using any ingredients made of pork. But I could easily disrespect his wish. I mean, a bit of bacon in the soup, sausages with pork in it, lard, etc. he would never know. It’s pretty easy actually to trick a Muslim into eating pork and for me as an atheist his rule makes no sense. He eats beef, turkey, chicken, lamb why not pork? But it’s not my decision… Read more »
Sad but true. And to continue you analogy if the Muslim did find you he was being fed pork and raised hell all of a sudden that Muslim is the bad guy. Why reject a meal that someone else cooked just because he doesn’t eat pork? How dare he call out the cook’s dishonesty.
A “real Muslim” would just stay quiet and eat the pork I guess.
People are just going on the story they were given by Hugo. Ted decided to commit to her on the basis that he had a child on the way. Were the father told years down the track that the marriage and his perception of his relationships with his was based on a deception as you say, it would be worse for him than not knowing. Perhaps she didn’t tell him, and continued the pattern of deception and emotional and financial abuse throughout the marriage… perhaps she divorced him for another wallet, financially ruined him, denied custody and told him to… Read more »
Above response Anon says:
July 15, 2011 at 11:03 pm
“She could’ve already told him… we don’t have those facts. Hugo hasn’t seen in her years. You are getting all worked up over something that might not even be an issue.
It is also a 50% that Ted’s kid is Ted’s kid. Maybe the kid is a dead ringer and she never felt the need to call up her old fling ever again after breathing a sigh of relief that the kid has the same unibrow as his dad (Ted.)”
The lengths these feminists are going to avoid conceding that paternity fraud is not a good thing almost defies belief.
Its my theory is that because they have absorbed so much dehumanising anti-male propaganda, that they can’t see the male in question as a feeling human with a right to have been told the truth.
It’s a sad day when a self-admitted rapist claims to have the moral high ground over men who don’t want to be tricked into raising his children.
Fairly predictable “argument” from Figleaf and a feminist further up. Avoid the real issue, attack a strawman instead and make the small penis and not a “real man” charge.
Proving yet again that feminists generally don’t intellectual integrity.
All that would have to be conceded is that deceiving the man was morally wrong and everyone would be in agreement.
You know, I thought feminists would understand that calling an action “immoral” does not take away a person’s right to do it.
You think it would be wrong for Ted not to adopt your baby? So what, it’s his right. Hold all the “contempt” you want for Ted, just don’t away his rights.
IMO they understand it, but use being willfully obtuse to try and defend their weak positions.