Editor’s Note: Hugo Schwyzer’s piece “I May Have a Son, but I’ll Never Know for Sure,” a version of which was printed on Jezebel, and excerpted Hugo’s own blog, where he also answered some questions that were brought up: “Do I Have a 13-Year-Old Son?” The post touched off a firestorm of debate, with almost 500 people commenting as the discussion rolled out across the internet. The piece below first appeared on Hugo’s blog in response to some of those comments. We thought it worth reprinting Hugo’s reactions here.
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If many of the comments around my 13-year-old son piece seem hostile, you should see the ones that were deleted in the moderation queue. The Men’s Rights Activists (MRAs) have stirred themselves into quite the tizzy, with posts like this one representing some of the more moderate response.
Leaving aside the admittedly complex specifics of the Hugo/Jill/Ted/Alastair situation, what strikes me is the way in which so many of the MRAs have framed this as a cuckolding issue. The term “cuckold” is a very old term for a man who unknowingly raises another guy’s biological children, thanks to an unfaithful wife. (See the wiki.) It’s not an accurate term to use in my scenario, but the fact that this is such a profound fear for some men is worth exploring.
One classic theory of patriarchy assumes that men’s desire to control women is rooted in the fear of being cuckolded. A woman is never in doubt as to who the mother of her child is, but for reasons of basic physiology, men can never have that same reassurance. The need to control women’s sexuality (insisting on pre-marital virginity and post-marital fidelity; female genital mutilation; the insistence on modest dress) may well all be rooted in responses to this ancient, fundamental masculine anxiety. It’s a cruel calculus: the more I can control the women in my life (and the less sexual expression I permit them), the greater the likelihood that my offspring will in fact be “mine.”
I don’t think I’d realized how alive and well this fear is. See this comment from Amir, whose words I noted yesterday:
I have a beautiful son and if he was not mine my world would end. And
yes, I would no longer love him if he didn’t have my genes. My genes
makes him my son before all the environmental influences.
Another MRA commenter at GMP compared cuckolding to rape, only worse. Daniel writes:
This is horrifying.
Cuckolding is the worst thing that can happen to a man. If my son would have the genes of another man my life would end. This is much worse than a rape and is accepted unpunished by the justice system. Rape can last for several minutes but this is years and years of deceit and lies. I despise all the men and women supporting/understanding this.
If you read through the lengthy and often vile comment sections at GMP and Jezebel (or at the “Voice for Men” site), you’ll see that Amir and Daniel are, alas, far from unusual in their insistence that love depends upon shared DNA.
As a father, I have nothing but contempt for any man whose love is contingent as Amir’s and Daniel’s so clearly is. If I were to find out that Heloise was not my biological daughter, I’d be stunned (and shocked at my wife’s deception.) It might change my relationship with Eira — but it sure as hell wouldn’t change my relationship with Heloise. Coming from an extended family where half-siblings and adoptees and step-children abound, I know how absurd it is to link devotion and biology. What makes Heloise “mine” has damn all to do with my DNA — and everything to do with the energy and devotion and commitment I have put into my relationship with her since she was in her mama’s womb.
There is nothing wrong with expecting a partner who has promised to be faithful to keep that promise. (A reminder, Ted and Jill were not in an exclusive relationship when she last slept with me.) It’s perfectly reasonable to be devastated by betrayal. But there’s a world of difference between the hurt of infidelity and the fear of being cuckolded. Eira made me a promise when we were married that she wouldn’t sleep with other men. If she broke that promise, it would alter my relationship with her significantly. But Heloise made no such representations. The circumstances of her conception (and the sperm used to conceive her) have nothing — nothing — to do with my devotion to this remarkable little girl, whose sweetness would be no less delightful if she didn’t have my DNA.
It’s telling that the atavistic fear of cuckolding still runs so strong in the men’s rights activists. And given that so many of them are associated with the “father’s rights” movement, it’s telling as well that their definition of “father” is so fragile, so contingent, so limited, and so utterly narcissistic.
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Photo by fekaylius / Flickr
About Hugo Schwyzer
What would the reaction be if we took the deception one level deeper. Suppose that Ted is in the nursery after delivery and notices Alistair is dead of SIDS. The baby of a single unwed teenager that looks remarkably like Alistair is in the crib next to his. He switches the babies and now it Jill that is raising a baby that is not hers based on Ted’s deception.
I think the reaction here would be quite different. Who’s the good man here now?
People become hung up over the DNA = my kid thing, but never remember the role of stepparents. My own father was never there–he left when I was 2, and reentered my life when I was 16, albeit only when it served his own purposes. My stepfather raised me, and is my dad, even though I don’t use that term with him. This situation is very common nowadays.
The real issue is the selfish deceit of a dishonest wife. It’s like women who think that getting pregnant is an 8-pound annuity to cling onto a successful man (which is in my opinion downright evil) if this child is not yours, you can raise it with love, but the woman has to be honest. If she can’t admit she cheated, and can’t be honest with her husband when the stakes are so high, she’s probably no kind of mother anyway. And that betrayal is far worse than any kind of rape, and I believe that it should be criminal.
Hugo’s fine with all of this, but how does Ted feel? That’s the problem, Hugo. You excoriate MRAs who say being cuckolded is an awful thing, and then write this article, the gist of which is ‘I might be a Dad and i might not, but I’m not going to find out because’ , and you state that the women you possibly got pregnant told the other guy it was his ‘because she needed to’ be Ted’s baby’. Used (possibly)your baby to grab the brass ring she was reaching for. He seems like a nice man, he married her. Would be have had she not been pregnant?We’ll never know. The baby was the final push she needed to make it happen.
You are not against cuckolding simply because you aided and abetted such an act, you are the cuckolder, you can’t admit that it’s wrong. If if is your child, you’ve abandoned your own progeny and deceived a fellow man. Someone this morally bankrupt has no business telling others they are wrong. You and the woman are the cuckolders, it’s a bit rich to be on that end of the stick and pontificating about how it’s not such a bad thing. You can’ t know how you would feel until it actually happens to you. You’re sure your feelings towards your daughter would not change, but until you’ve walked the walk you have no right to talk the talk Hugo.
Narcissism to me, would be walking away from your own child because you’re ‘not ready’. I suppose this piece as to show how liberal and open-minded you are, a nice warm pro-feminist piece but it just comes off as shallow. You really feel you (either of you) have no moral obligation to the man who has been possibly deceived for 14 years!?
Narcissism to me, would be walking away from your own child because you’re ‘not ready’. I suppose this piece as to show how liberal and open-minded you are, a nice warm pro-feminist piece but it just comes off as shallow. You really feel you (either of you) have no moral obligation to the man who has been possibly deceived for 14 years!?
That’s a good point. As much as people like to go on and on about men walking out on their children I get the feeling this instance was given a free pass was simply because Ted was in the picture. Otherwise Hugo would probably be painted up as a “dead beat dad”.
oops hit submit too soon.
Also. Does this mean that a “real man takes responsibility for his actions…..unless he can pawn them off on another man”?
Red, you *choose* to be a step-parent. Those who are cuckolded are deceived into raising another’s child as their own. If it’s no big deal, why hide it? Why marry a man letting him think a child is his, if it’s ‘no big deal’? The child is conceived through deceit. It’s not a good start for a marriage, it’s lying.
But if raising a child is what makes you the parent, why do you refer to the other boy as your son?
I agree that love is what makes you a parent and that shouldn’t disappear if you discover they don’t share your genes, but I think it would be a terrible blow. The other guy deserved to know that he was going into a situation where the child might not be his biologically. He could have made a choice then. Your friend cheated him by hiding this.
What really bothered me about the article was that you promised not to ever reveal this, but now you are writing about it. What if this guy figures it out? What will that do to the kid?
(The unprotected sex also bothered me, but I’m going to assume you know better now.)
Hugo, your little response piece about DNA vs. nurture parenthood is an obvious attempt to deflect from your outrageous and egregious participation in the deception of another person. Picking and choosing comments in an attempt to discredit the MRA does nothing to take away from the fact that you made a choice that reeks of selfishness and brings into question both your morality and manhood. Shame on you.
I’m probably one of the more sympathetic to Hugo’s intentions here, but I still must take issue.
I completely agree that “fatherhood” doesn’t depend on a biological connection.
But the deception denies the man the choice. Ideally Ted would be aware that Jill was not sexually exclusive at the time of conception so he can process that and determine how that knowledge affects his own value set. I believe were he told even now, a good man, like Hugo says, would not let the revelation affect his decisions with regard to the child, though they might with the mother/wife.
But a more important reason the deception could be a problem is in medical histories. Adopted children don’t carry with them a medical history, and I’ve seen how this can effect them in minor and major ways. Minor ways, such as not being able to fill out certain forms accurately; and major ways, such as predicting risk for heart disease, cancer, or other genetic ailments. In the case of a non-biological child deception could be potentially damaging to the child’s health.
So I agree with Hugo’s general point that the cuckolding should ideally not make a difference in the father/child relationship. But the deception is the more significantly damaging aspect of the act, and should be the focus of the discussion.
I believe were he told even now, a good man, like Hugo says, would not let the revelation affect his decisions with regard to the child, though they might with the mother/wife.
But that’s the trick. Its real easy to talk about Ted being told now, over ten years later, and then morally grandstand over Ted and insult him if he doesn’t make “the right” choice (its pretty clear that people think that Ted leaving would be wrong to the point that they won’t even consider Jill’s part in it).
So I agree with Hugo’s general point that the cuckolding should ideally not make a difference in the father/child relationship. But the deception is the more significantly damaging aspect of the act, and should be the focus of the discussion.
I think the problem is people are trying to separate the two so they can go on their preprogrammed arguments. I don’t think its that simple. Its bascially a relationship built on a secret that, according to the “its not about the DNA” crowd going on and on about how genetics don’t matter its the parenting that matters, didn’t need to be kept in the first place.
If the genetics don’t matter then why lie about it or withold secrets about it?
If a woman is willing to lie about/withold information that supposedly doesn’t matter then how can said woman be trusted to tell the truth if it comes down to something that matters? And that question is going to create enough doubt and mistrust that it will be next to impossible for the father/child bond to no be effected. So when people say that a man shouldn’t leave if were to find out they are really hoping that he will just “man up” and act like it doesn’t bother him.
Oh and for an extra bit of irony Hugo just did another post in which he says that men owe it to women to be honest about their porn use. How in the world can you defend lying/secret holding one week then literally turn around the next week and condemn lying/secret holding?
Two main points:
1) If we’re being honest…. we have to say that for the average man, fatherhood is fragile and narcissistic. Often – it doesn’t take much for a man to abandon his kid(s).
2) Cuckholding? Deliberately deciving someone in this way is morally wrong. We all know this.
“Fathering has everything to do with being present after conception and after birth, and very little with providing the sperm to fertilize an egg” That’s true, but why should the mother be the one who decides who is present after conception ? The reason mandatory paternal dna testing should be done is mother, father and child all have rights…..not just mom. I hope someday Alistair shows up at your doorstep and asks why your refused to be his father. I guess the honest answer that his mom decided would be too much to ask for, not to mention that if you impregnated a woman….it was YOUR responsibility to raise, take care of, educate and protect that child…..not whoever mom is sleeping with now. To pretend that wondering who you are and where you came from is not part of the human experience has the distinct odor of someone running from his past.
I think the fear some men have of being cuckolded is based upon false demands for spousal support. The magistrates make a big deal of fathers acting in a responsible manner and paying spousal support to assist in the care of their children, often when they get little or no access. When courts enforce payment but do not enforce binding agreements of access, it is easy to see why paternity becomes important.
I have helped raise and educate another man’s child when I was in a relationship with a single mother; I knew what I was getting into and I am and was comfortable with the situation. The key aspect for me though was it was my choice. if women can choose whether to keep or abort their children shouldn’t fathers be able to know whether the child they are raising is actually theirs?
These days the world cuckolding means a whole lot more than just raising another man’s kids. In fact, what these these guys in the MRA article comments misunderstand is that the world cuckolding comes from the cuckoo bird where the male bird understands the eggs may or may not be his. These men act like they don’t know the women are out running around.
And please, with comments like that who would even want them as fathers anyway? I can see their point of not wanting their wives to sleep around, but to take it out on the poor kids is just rude.
Cuckolding Princess
I think this subject is too complex to be discussed in a short essay. Yes, finding out the child you raise does not change how you feel for them. But that doesn´t mean the situation shouldn´t be open. My father in law was raised by his stepfather but was told he was his real dad and that was a decision his stepfather and his mother made together (she was pregnant when they met). Yet he FELT he was not his son and that he couldn´t be his dad. He was different from his two brothers and they explained that by the fact that he looked just like his mother but he didn´t buy that story. When he was 59 years old he finally found his biological father (he never gave up looking for him). My point is, families are built on trust. And though love has all to do with time and commitment, all of those things cannot fill in the gaps for trust and honesty. If Jill had been open to Ted and her son about the situation, there would be nothing wrong. But hiding it from both of them is very wrong indeed and the uncertainty may ruin their lives.
Most of the scenarios here involve a wife deceiving a husband. What about cases when a husband wants his wife to have another man’s baby? For example, a white man who would love to raise a black baby from his white wife?
Cuckolding doesn’t have to be deceptive. I would love to have a sweet white wife who would bless me with beautiful black babies to love and raise. The cuckold doesn’t always have to be a victim, sometimes he can be an excellent parent and an understanding, loving husband.
No one here talks about the kids right to know where he comes from.
And it costs a lot when a woman cheats, especially if it’s a male prostitute, or gigolo, or stripper. You need to write an article telling women the high cost of cheating on their husbands of boyfriends as far as getting pregnant by the manstress (male mistress) goes as well as the dangers such as verbal and physical abuse, rape, kidnapping, murder, etc. Women who cheat typically face those dangers, especially from their manstresses. And manstresses can be violent as well, sometimes robbing or killing the woman’s husband or boyfriend, molesting, and kidnapping their children as well. But women cheat anyway because they are taught to make their husband or boyfriend get jealous and try to possess them, which can lead to a lot of dangerous consequences.
I can see both sides of this story. I think any interruption in teds familys lives right now would be completely wrong. I do think that both jill and hugo acted selfishley at the time. But my question is if Ted. Ted is now the father in everyones mind,why is Jill still keeping in contact with hugo? If ted has been deceived all these years, if Jill does feel like ted has somewhat been possibly. Been misled. Why would she risk communication. With him? Does she still have some emotional bond with hugo? I find this very dangerous
Sorry having a hard time typing. On my phone
If DNA doesn’t make for fatherhood then it doesn’t really make for motherhood either. Lets just switch babies around in the hospital nurseries. After all you don’t need to share DNA to be a parent.