When it comes to idealizing one body type over another, Danny says, “Screw swinging the pendulum to the other side! It’s time to tear that damn pendulum down!”
This picture (above) has been making its rounds on the internet for several months now and I have say that this is a sign that some people may be taking the idea of being fat doesn’t make you unattractive a bit too far. On top of that, there seems to be a bit of a thing going on around here the last few days where everyone is chiming in on what they find attractive. All of this makes me feel a need to talk about what makes a woman attractive.
As a person that finds women attractive, I don’t like the idea that something is wrong with finding skinny women attractive any more than the idea that something is wrong with finding fat women attractive. If you look throughout the ages the ideas of what body type of women is the established norm of what is attractive have changed. And just like any established norm those who do not match that ideal are ostracized and left on the fringes.
That’s not a good place to be and takes me to what I find a bit wrong with the photo up above.
The photo asks, “When did this (images of skinny women) become hotter than this (images of not so skinny women)?”. I get a tone from that that seems to say that not so skinny women should be the norm of attractiveness over skinny women. This thought only pushes the pendulum to the other direction.
The problem with thinking that skinny women are the established norm for attractiveness isn’t that women who are not skinny are left on the out of being considered attractive. The problem is that there is an established norm for attractiveness.
When I look at women I’m not thinking, “Oh this woman is _____ so she can’t be attractive.” Yes there are times when I think that a women is not attractive in my own opinion but that doesn’t mean that that woman is objectively unattractive. Over the years I’ve found a wide variety of women to be attractive ranging from what others would say, “Put the fork down and back away from the table!” to “You need some beans and cornbread!” (that being a Southern way of saying, “you need some meat on your bones”).
But at the end of the day they are just my opinions. I have my opinion of what is attractive just like anyone else but when dealing with established norms it becomes bigger than just what an individual person finds attractive.
When something becomes the established norm you will have a division where people are either part of the “in group” or “out group”. What happens is that the opinions of the in group become the truth rather than just their truth. In other words its cool because the cool kids said it is.
The solution to this is not to just replace one body type with another as the norm but to get rid of the very idea that there should be, or needs to be, a norm in the first place.
What do you think? Is there such a thing as an objectively attractive person? Or should we try to get rid of the society norms that tell us what makes a person hot?
For more on the debate about whether one “type” is hotter than another, read these articles and join in on the conversation:
How We Talk About What Turns Us On by Justin Cascio
In Praise of Small Breasted Women by Mark Radcliffe
In Praise of Large Breasted Women by Josh Bowman
In Praise and Appreciation of Women by Collin Slattery
In Praise of Jewish Men by Laura Bailey
About Danny
Oh FFS. Those women in the picture are ALL thin. And ALL beautiful.
I quite like the general idea of this text and can only agree that attractiveness is much more then only one specific bodytype. Or hair color, size of breats or whatever.
But as nice as it would be to have no “norms” at all, it also is a naive idea. There always will be some kind of “ideal XYZ” or bodytype. And it will change. I think there are 2 more “realistic” approaches to the topic: 1. While there always might be some kind of norm, it is important to stretch the point that no norm is ever the ONLY acceptabel thing, or the ONE thing everyone shoudl try to be like. Let there be diversity…
2. Let’s be careful what norm we support. While attractiveness is a very personal thing, it is a fact that young girls (and boys!) tend to try hard to reach these norms. So let’s not support unhealthy norms. And I think this is what the above picture is trying to do… Not just replacing one norm by another. But trying to find a more healthy one…
Who’s says the 4 woman at the top of photo aren’t healthy ?
The only one who’s had possible problems with her weight is Nicole Richie.
”Pretty power” is not a power possessed…. it is a power given
So is a lot of so called male privilege that people go on about. But that doesn’t stop people from condemning the use of it and condemning the people who use it.
This post is brilliant. Totally on the money.
For the record, out of that picture, I find Keira and Elizabeth to be the most attractive physically. That’s just my own personal opinion and all others are just as valid.
Matt
Keira and Bettie got it going on in that pic. That’s my word.
So, I think I know who Keira is (I mean, I don’t know if I’ve seen any of her movies, but I recognize the name – misspelled as it is) but who are the other three in the top row? And who is “Shirley” in the bottom row?
I think these are right…
Left to right,top: Heidi Klum, Nicole Richie, Keira Knightly, Kirsten Dunst
Left to right, bottom: Bettie Page, Shirley Temple, Elizabeth Taylor, and Marilyn Monroe
I like the idea of getting rid of an established norm as to physical attractiveness, but I think that notion has some major roadblocks. One of the biggest is the dirty, little secret that not all romantic relationships are based on agape-type love, or a deep, intimate connection with one’s partner’s true, inner self.
No, a heck of a lot of attraction is predicated on social factors. Namely, we humans tend to want to establish our social status by being seen to possess something that everybody else wants. Conversely, we tend to want what we see that other people want. What we find physically attractive in a partner is influenced, more or less depending on the individual, by what our society finds attractive.
The scientific research shows that there are some universal determinants of physical attractiveness, but much of it is culturally-determined. The ideal changes over time with the fashion of the day, of course, but with this human tendency to jump on the bandwagon with what other humans deem desirable, I doubt that having an ideal will ever go away.
Even as a woman, I find most of the bottom row women too heavy. Keira has a lot of muscle on that small frame! I think being lean and strong is a lot more attractive than having curves due to excess body fat.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We are all attracted to different people. Some women are petite and naturally thin. Other women are either very curvy or have a large frame. All body types should be considered attractive.
Hi Danny, thanks for the article.
By listening to others and others telling us what is hot does a disservice to both men and women, whether gay, straight, transgender et al. It’s a challenging one because media is always giving us these stories on who’s hot and who’s not.
I know when someone is “hot” for me and I don’t need anyone to tell me. My body reacts in a very simple way, it gets “turned on”.
Of course, you know what the problem with all this is, right? It has little to do with what, specifically, men find attractive. We all have varying interests.
The primary problem, which floats around beneath the radar, is that we attach so much of our respect for women to their attractiveness. No one would dispute the importance of Bill Gates, despite his relative unattractiveness. Same with almost any member of congress.
But the moment a woman is in such a position, everyone goes nuts about her being “too big” or not attractive enough in some way. Umm…who cares??
I still see jokes about Michelle Obama’s appearance. “She’s too fat”, “She has an awkward face”.
Even if these were true, I can guarantee there are far less attractive men in congress, and we really don’t care. Why? Because we shouldn’t. The physical attractiveness of a woman is only relevant to the dating world. We should keep it that way, and then maybe people won’t get so uptight about what guys find attractive or unattractive.
I completely agree. I was very annoyed when I saw this thing going around. Men have a variety of interests and tastes when it comes to what is attractive, and this obsession with “redefining the ideal” seems to be set on insisting that thin women are unattractive and that men who are interested in thin women are inherently shallow. Let’s break the pendulum.
Also, Web, you are absolutely right!