Simon Doonan argues that all we have are our lives, and when we start forgiving people for taking them away we are leaving ourselves vulnerable.
Is forgiveness always the best option? Simon Doonan from Slate doesn’t seem to think so. He asserts that the belief in the “healing power of forgiveness,” or as he puts it, “the now-ubiquitous forgiveness movement,” has gone too far. He writes,
The basic idea seems to be that the only way to come to terms with the murder or rape of a loved one is to forgive the perp. This notion has gained serious traction. In days gone by it was only the Man Upstairs who could pardon and absolve. Now everybody is taking a crack at it.
It’s easy to blame Oprah for the hug-it-out quick fix, but I think the responsibility lies with ourselves. We have all gotten a little squishy and confused. I suggest that we take a breath and try to sort the forgivable from the unforgivable. Here’s a start: If some drunken jerk wants to pick a fight or insults your choice of shoe, then by all means turn the other cheek. But rape and murder? Not so much.
Do you think there are “unforgivable crimes?” And if so, what would you classify as unforgivable?
Do you think forgiveness is necessary for a person to truly heal and move on?
Read more about forgiveness:
When “Forgive” Is An Abuse Trigger
“Survivors will be angry for as long as is necessary. Telling them to forgive is pointless at best.”
Photo: sara biljana/Flickr
I believe that no one should do anything that seems unnatural for them. But sooner or later, everyone sees the uselessness of “antiseptic hate”. The hate of the Bible that kills people for what they did as an eye for an eye. It does “remove” the problem. And maybe, there are people who “need” to die. But between that and whatever it is you are going through, sooner or later you are going to come to terms that this person is still alive. Forgiveness is for you more than them. Whatever they did, they will eventually forgive themselves enough so… Read more »
Hi Mediahound
Thank you for the links!
On a test for facial recognition I score 18 out of 20. The average for women is 11,6
Was I born this way? I don’t think so.
Iben – in the studies I reference facial recognition is not the issue – it’s recognition of facial expression. They are not the same thing. An individual can be 100% perfect on facial recognition and yet still have zero capacity at recognising facial expression and what it means… what is being communicated. Think of it as the difference between seeing a face in Colour and Black and White. So many grab at big noticeable differences and can’t be bothered with the smaller and subtle one’s. A great deal of communication through facial expression is very subtle, so when the ability… Read more »
Hi Mediahound
“Recognition of facial expression” is what I tried to tell about. I have a language problem so forgive me.
And I did not know that a person diagnosed with PTSD had this problem. It is totally new to me.
Iben – there is so much about PTSD which after 30 years of study and research so many remain totally ignorant about. I find it frustrating because the issue is also seen a gendered and so men have PTSD and Women Don’t unless it’s caused by big bad men and Domestic Violence. Actually the number one cause of PTSD in women is incorrect management during medicalised child birth, but why let reality and other facts get in the way of gendered Dogma and all the things it can damage. Us Good Guys are beyond Tired of the Status Quo and… Read more »
Hi Media hound!
What you wrote here is great:”It’s even worse when people are damaged by it because of conditions such as PTSD, where being encouraged to think about a person who has caused that PTSD simply acts to re-traumatise. being abused for not Forgiving when your damaged Brain structures simply will not allow it is by definition Torture – and I don’t tolerate that behaviour from anyone…. no matter the levels of the Ignorance.”
Iben – you may also find these threads and dialogues useful too. 1) Why Forgiving Others Makes Life Better For You – and why being thrown out the back of a plane at 48,000 feet and told to think positive and flap your arms harder just don’t work. 2) Oh The Abuses Of Science – And the Peddling of Snake Oil 3) Sometimes a Train-Wreck is Just a Train-Wreck – and why being peddled the latest brand of Survivo™, Celebrate Recovery™, or What ever your Snake Oil is Branded as, all too often causes damage as you run to the… Read more »
Hi Leia
Nobody has a right to invalidate you,your feelings or your story.
I am thankful you share your it with us.
@Iben: Thank you for your support… This space feels a lot safer …. Interesting comments above about Judeo-Christian and Buddhist ideas about forgiveness and what it means “to move on” with your life… My ex- abuser was brought up a strict Jesuit (Northern European ethnic origin: Danish and Dutch to be more specific)…. Perhaps his feelings about guilt and shame and dogma and sex had to do with this particular religious flavor of upbringing….he would try to control me by being very threatening and punitive as if his word was the law, when in truth it violated all moral, social,… Read more »
Hi Leia
Yes you are right. Northern Europeans attitudes and values around sex and shame is so different from the one I see here on this web page. I feel we live in totally different planets!
Forgiveness is something that I’ve admittedly struggled for the longest. Deep within my spirit, I wholeheartedly understand the need to forgive others in order to emotionally move forward and continue along with my journey and purpose in life. And for the most part, yes, I am a very forgiving human being. Yet, there are some “crimes” that I doubt if I’d ever be able to forgive the perpetrators – no matter how hard I tried.
Forgiveness is something you do for yourself, not for the other.
Interesting point you’ve made.
Agreed. Yes.
What my ex-abuser did to me was inexcusable…it went on for 7 years…and certain people did see what was going on and tried to intervene… When he stalked me a few years ago after I ended it all 20 years ago, I didn’t know what to do…I couldn’t deal with him one on one….he would always talk over me and argue with me and convince me that my way of thinking was wrong….but I knew he was afraid of the police and of being found out…so I went to the police and I went to his co-workers (via an intermediary)….If… Read more »
This. This is beautiful. Amen sister.
When I read “inexcusable” at first I heard “unforgivable” but in the end you forgave and were able to see clearly and even appraise yourself honestly.
@Ben Berlin: Thank you for your support… That means a lot to me… sometimes I feel attacked and blamed for what happened a long time ago… Perhaps only in a place where other survivors congregate I can feel safe to share my story in full ( with all of the ugly details… How do abusers get you to comply with their evil secrets?)…. Sometimes it feels like no one else understands… We are constantly told to shut up and just get over it as if wallpapering over a huge hole in the wall will do the trick…. Thanks for listening…… Read more »
No, no, Leia. Thank you. I think you just showed us all an incredible example of how to go about reclaiming power in our lives without wasting our energy in the wrong places, because it sure seems like that is exactly what you have done. I see the story of a human refusing to be a victim–in my own life I’ve often found that word to be limiting, you know?–and I find inspiration in that I can’t fully articulate. It’s really powerful.
I’ve never been one for Instant pancake mix psycho babble and even Trademark Survivo. I really do wish that there was a federal law banning all pulp pscho books being sold at the checkouts of supermarkets – and for all Oprahesq productions on all media channels to come with a Trigger warning – may cause you to be offensive to others under the belief that your are a qualified Psycho Schmuck. The shamming tactics and abuse that goes on around you must forgive is so abusive as to be beyond domestic or physical – and as anyone in the field… Read more »
What? I have no idea what i just read.
Hi Kathryn
We do not have to forgive those that never ask for forgiveness.
Sometimes we forgive,and it makes it easier to go on.
Some crimes can destroyed a persons ability to love and have close relationships for the rest of her or his life. Childhood sexual abuse can have this effect.
Is forgiveness simply a choice like some say? I don’t think so. Maybe it is for some.
If I can not feel tenderness for the person later on,then I have not forgiven.
Times does not heal all wounds.
To forgive is not a choice, but a process. And it doesn’t mean we heal. To heal and to forgive, at least in my experience, don’t have to be connected. A man who looses his legs in war will never heal, never be made whole, but he can forgive those who harmed him.
Hi Ben I don’t think I know what forgiveness is all about. Imagine a person say or does something that hurts or partly destroys you deepest core of self. You realize this person does not love you or have the faintest idea who you are. And you feel this is not a friend any longer. So you choose to set up boundaries for yourself, and find some new friends instead because that person really hurts you. Does forgiving means I have to go on being a friend,or like the person? I just don’t get get it! For me that is emotionally… Read more »
Hi Iben, I write as a Buddhist. I need to get that out of the way right off, because I am inherently distrustful when any man or woman of the cloth claims to know the failings of another faith tradition, particularly when dealing with religions of the book–Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. I wonder, for example, if this priest talked about Islam’s recognition of Jesus as a messenger of God, or whether he acknowledges the Sufi mystic poets as Muslim. Forgiveness runs through the work of Kabir and Rumi like wide rivers. As a Buddhist, I believe the deepest human core… Read more »
As a Buddhist, I believe the deepest human core to be indestructible and purely good in every human being,… Well of course you are at liberty to believe what you wish, but the ideas you are pushing are not part of Buddhist teachings. It’s a Judeo Christian construct grafted onto Buddhism. But then again after decades of study as a Practising Buddhist – A votary without robe – I do wonder why constructs are being passed about rather than actual teachings. It is comical how so many will pick up a few grains of Buddhism and then claim to have… Read more »
Dude,
You have no idea what you are talking about. What school of Buddhist teachings do you practice? Specifically. The Judeo-Christian odor in the house ain’t me, brotherman.
“ – A votary without robe – I think I made that one clear. Do you nor know of the translation of a monk stroke vassal into English? Free of robe means free of Dogma, a student of all teachings and sutra … and not one for other people’s commentary on teachings and surtra. A few Questions to test some knowledge: 1) In which sutra does does a sex change feature, as an act of enlightenment in one’s present bodily form? 2) In which sutra does a being attain enlightenment? 3) When the being attains enlightenment are they human? 4)… Read more »
Simple question man. To what school of Buddhist thought do you adhere? Hint: Tibetan Buddhism has four.
For the third time – “ – A votary without robe – “. Hint – Votary means a vessel that carries, and in Buddhist tradition means a teacher, monk or nun … it’s old archaic English. A Robe is used to show affiliation to a group or sect – so a Votary without Robe is a teacher free from such limits and free of Dogmas. A robe does not make you a member of any Sangha, living the Dharma does. Take refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. It don’t mention refuge in robes. People who like robes are of… Read more »
Many roads indeed. I ask you to name four small ones. You reply with many words, but none of the four simple words I ask for. Nothing. I’m done here.
Dear Ben – Votary also means bottle and you left your empty one behind. I would recommend you take it with you. It’s full of Zen and may come in handy someday!
Hi Ben I don’t know how much this priest knew about Islam. I guess he was thinking of “the Christian God”as one that is forgiving if you believe in him and when you go to communion you are told you are forgiven.( he is a Protestant) And I lack knowledge about how church people think and about Islam as well. To be able to forgive is a fantastic quality. To let others walk all over you is not! Some personalties are unforgiving. And as a woman I feel men for example seldom forgive infidelity ( sexual) but women often… Read more »
But in this case you don’t need more than that, Iben. You have no responsibility to maintain a relationship with a tyrant. Period. But let me ask you about the cat. What if you were to learn the torturer was him or herself subject to years of systemic sexual torture by parents or siblings or clergy? Would that change your feelings?
Hi Ben You ask me: “But let me ask you about the cat. What if you were to learn the torturer was him or herself subject to years of systemic sexual torture by parents or siblings or clergy? Would that change your feelings?”. And here is how I think: I have never given any thought to persons that are sexually into animals or sadism. And I am not a psychologist. As far as I know only a psychotic person can do a thing like that without being able to stop him or herself. And this kind of cruelty is seldom… Read more »
And what I ask is this: could you forgive the child of systemic abuse who had no-one step in to rescue him, for perpetuating that same abuse on others, if, for example he were to be treated and repent in adulthood?
Hi Ben English is not my first language and sometimes I struggle to understand what I read. Do you ask me if I can forgive a person that has undergone treatment and served time for his or her crime? I have never been in that situation so it is hard to tell in advance is it not ? But for a short time I worked in prison,and the men there told me what they had done. We talked all day,I think they felt my humility. I had seen their documents, read about all their different foster care homes. I had… Read more »
And I respect anyone who goes into prisons and does work most people wouldn’t do. Bless you, Iben. It sounds like you live your gospel in a very true way that helps others. I think that is all that matters. By the way, it might not be your first language, but your English is very good. 🙂
I don’t want to argue though. I just want to celebrate a very courageous and powerful story told by Leia.
Seems to me the author has a narrow and very Western view of forgiveness. Forgiveness has nothing to do with the perpetrator of the crime. Forgiveness is about freeing ourselves from the self-imposed bonds of victimhood–as a personal matter, not a societal matter.
Betrayal is unforgivable. But you have to move forward from it and know that, like Judas, the betrayer ultimately has a rope around his neck. His problem now; not yours. That is the closest to forgiveness you can come in serious betrayal, I think, and the recognition that it is frequently a product of sociopathy or some other pathology.
Forgiveness does not mean you can’t work to change the situation so people are less likely to hurt others in the future.
All violence is a call for help or love. You can extend love by forgiving. Then, working to change the situation will become easier.