Today’s good comment is from a few weeks ago, but it was incisive enough for me to think of it when I read this piece by Jeremy Paul Gordon over at The Hairpin.
The comment was on a post I’d written about the purported “infidelity gene” and commenter Henry Vandenburgh brought up a really great subject:
I liked the article, above. What I don’t like is that the word “creepy” is getting a lot of play lately in taliking about fairly common forms of sexuality. (Obviously not incest, but many other things.) It’s usually used by women commenters.
As a woman writing for a men’s mag—a job that’s made me reevaluate my genderized tendencies more than I ever thought possible—this took me aback. It wasn’t even something that had ever crossed my mind. Was I playing too fast and loose with a word that Gordon dubbed “the worst thing a woman can call a man”?
Here’s his take:
Without a doubt, creepy is the worst casual insult that can be tossed at a guy. A guy can publicly scoff at something you say and be a “douchebag”; sleep with your best friend, never call her back and become an “asshole”; or cry while listening to Neutral Milk Hotel and forever be a “pussy.” But creepy is not that simple. It doesn’t relate to someone’s appearance, actions, or behavior. More accurately, creepy is a vibe. You can’t define it—you just know it. It’s when a guy looks at a girl for a little too long, when he friends her on Facebook a little too quickly, when he doesn’t understand that no actually means no, not “try harder.” It’s a tag that isn’t easily dispelled—after all, what are you supposed to say? “I’m not creepy! I’m NORMAL! I say normal things and act like a human being!”
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For me, “creepy” had always been a word from childhood. The rubber Halloween spider stuffed at the bottom of our toy box? Creepy. That goopy half-liquid, half-solid Gak stuff? Creepy. Kissing boys? Really, really creepy. (And from what I’ve heard from boys in elementary school, vice versa.)
It wasn’t until middle school that the adjective became ubiquitous and applicable to guys in a less innocent (read: truly derogatory) sense. But even then, the weight of the word was never heavier than any other insult I’d shoot back at the boys mocking my inability to jump over a hurdle in gym class.
But it seems I was wrong.
So thank you, Henry, for making me think twice about how I use my words and for speaking for good men as a whole. How about the rest of you, readers? What are your thoughts on the “creepy factor”? Have any stories?
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
“…when he doesn’t understand that no actually means no, not “try harder.” – WTF???
Yes rapey behavior is creepy! Its not just a vibe, its literally disgusting. No most certainly does just mean no, and yes it is creepy to interpret it as anything else! Also criminal, but who’s counting?
I’m shocked that the Author not only condones that, but cites it as an example of why she won’t call men creepy. Wow. Just blown away by the creepiness on both counts.
First rule GMP: DO NOT IGNORE WHEN WOMEN SAY NO. Pretty basic.
My name was prefixed with “Creepy” throughout all of high school, simply because I was typically sullen and moved very quietly (symptoms of random assaults at home). Because of the nickname (at least in part, obviously there were extenuating circumstances as well, both before and after high school) I am still unable to act on signals I may get from women in person, ten years later. And I think this article has finally made me realize something else to unravel.
Ms. Wakeman couldn’t have said it better: “It’s a really freaking dangerous idea to twist a woman’s open, honest communication about her boundaries/expectations into ‘creep shaming’ that victimizes men.” WOMEN NEED TO BE ABLE TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES AND WHEN THEY DON’T FEEL COMFORTABLE. Sometimes us men (not included children) take for granted the fact that we’re not usually the victims of sexual assault. But women are and it’s a sad reality in this world. To try to shut them up about a male in their lives or a male they came across who is potentially a real threat to them… Read more »
THANK YOU!
I get tired of reading articles and comments like some of the above. Here’s a clue – if two people connect with one another and want to have a relationship maybe people should just get over it. I’ll be nice to whomever I wish to be nice to, I’ll chat up any guy or girl I feel like. I don’t care if they’re older than me or younger. Makes no difference at all. I will say this though – If you judge me as being a certain way because of my age or think that there should be some kind… Read more »
David, if you are 36 (twice her age) and this girl is only 18 I think YES THERE IS something seriously wrong with you. She is still a TEENAGER and very much a kid. And 18yo has extremely limited life experience. You could be her father or her teacher. And if she were my daughter and you tried anything with her I would put the fear of God in you. I don’t understand what you would have in common with a high school girl (or who just recently got out of high school). The term CREEPY would apply to you… Read more »
You do realize he isn’t interested in dating/sleeping with her as he said? The term creepy would apply 100% for seeing the devil where it ain’t!
I was talking to 50 year olds when I was 16, and had stuff in common. You know like hobbies? I didn’t have the same life experience but I still had some, you don’t need to have a matching IQ and life experience to chat with someone.
I would be somewhat okay PROVIDED her NEVER did anything with a sexual overtone or innuendo to make the young lady feel uncomfortable.
I had a male friend who did not understand plain English in that I was not interested in him and he kept up with the innuendos until one day I lost my mind and let him have it. He was and possibly still is a complete creep. Why? He did not respect a woman’s boundaries and he thought by pushing he would get somewhere. Oh he got somewhere all right…out the door on his ass.
Sorry dude but it says it all when you said local community college and hanging with an 18 year old…it is only a matter of time before you put the hard word on her..hope she spits in your face.
Creepy is definitely a word I only use to refer to a very specifically deviant aura filled man. Some idiot (the most disgusting thing any man has ever said to me) had the a completely serious look on his face, and thought it was a compliment as he looked at me in a sundress and said “you look really fertile tonight”: ladies & gentleman THAT IS A CREEPY MAN. And yes, I knew this person. He had NO idea what he had done wrong when I asked him if he was serious…which made the whole experience even creepier. He said… Read more »
I think a project titled The Good Men Project inherently requires stereotypes (generalizations) in order to make progress towards something the majority of men (and the poles within poles 🙂 can be that is good for the majority of women. Or at least the majority of women that you like. You have to develop a ‘good’ stereotype (good man, good behavior, good woman to you, etc.) and then strive to meet it. In my opinion. Women (older women) tend to be more experienced, able to be more generous, stronger, and more sophisticated. I know many single moms that are awesome… Read more »
A ‘girl’ is a desirable woman in this context. This term probably comes from the transition from Miss to Mrs. or Ms. In a traditional no-divorce/no coveting neighbor’s wife setup it is only okay to desire the girls. Note that 12/13/14 year old girls were the norm to be the subject of this desire in this time frame. Particularly if you’re dead at 40. Fast forward a few hundred (few thousand) years, and men still need a one syllable word to grunt that means ‘desirable woman.’ Women should at least finish high school, so lets make the age… Read more »
As a woman who got into the relationship that led to marriage in my twenties (which, by the way, I am still happily in), it bothers me deeply that so many men would lump in so many negative associations with the word “woman” as though it is practically a bad word! No wonder there is still so much lingering negativity and severe division between “desirable girls” who are acceptable and desirable due to fitting the male desire and being far more willing to do as instructed by said older male, and “women” who are jaded, ugly and otherwise full of… Read more »
If you want men to stop using the word girls, stop referring to men/a man as guys/a guy.
Well then I can always use the term “boy” for a grown man. Guy does not indicate age or perceived maturity level
I find it humorous that quite a few people refer to women as “girls” in the comments. Honestly, I think that the main reason why most women use the word “creepy” is because they don’t have an advanced vocabulary, and may have little to no experience interacting with people who may have social anxiety or other problems. When I first met my husband, he was the quiet shy guy wearing all black and a trenchcoat in the back of the class. The people (both male and female) around me thought he was “creepy” but his body language, turns of speech… Read more »
“I find it humorous that quite a few people refer to women as “girls” in the comments.” You called your husband a guy, “girls” is a noun with a double meaning, 1 of being a young female, the other of being a female. Guys n girls is often used referring to males n females. “The point is, most guys feel justified in having this level of honesty but don’t like when it’s turned back upon them in the “creepy” comment.” I’d say most guys don’t like it because it relies solely on her instincts, which can be completely different to… Read more »
I’m happily married to a woman that can pass as 12 years old with a little makeup. All her clothes are size 12 or smaller from the childrens section. She is over 30. So I’m the creepy old guy waiting patiently in the girls clothing area because the XS women’s are still too big for her. I’m comfortable with this because my wife is awesome. (And I’m already married, so what do I care if some little girl or her mom think I’m creepy?) I believe that God made me to take care of her. And I’m happy to say… Read more »
I think it is some what of a contradiction to post unflattering articles about men’s sexuality and on the same page advertise hosiery with images of half-naked women.
Karen: Not only does your post scream of contradictory statements, along with many absolute ridiculous statements, but you ALSO go on to prove my point. You said if a women feels a guy is creepy, that’s how she feels, AS LONG AS SHE ISN’T JUST MAKING IT UP TO HURT HIS FEELINGS. That’s my exact point. Most women DO just make it up and accuse a guy of being creepy, JUST TO HURT HIS FEELINGS and make him look down upon in front of others. That was the entire purpose of my post. That women take the word for granted,… Read more »
CMBC We, women, call you creepy and yes will do it purposefully to embarrass you with the hope st at your creepy behaviour will stop! Creepy is a feeling that women can get when approached by a man we don’t want near us. We might not find you attractive so we deem you to be creepy, but we can also find you sweet and feel bad in rejecting you…it all depends on how you present yourself and how the woman in question perceives you, even if you don’t mean to be creepy! I’ll bet if some unattractive girl approached you… Read more »
Pssst! You’re responding to a comment that’s going on 6 months old. Also, as many men have noted in other discussions about “creep” and “creepy”, one of the big problems about those words is that they often get used when the only thing a guy has “done” is be unattractive to a woman. No approach or awkward attempt at a pick-up is even necessary. Can you think of any insults men apply to unattractive women who have not even interacted with them, that you would tell women to just simmer down and nurse the wounds the deserved to receive for… Read more »
This is something I have been thinking for years. Women and girls throw out the term “creepy” to a guy like it’s some one-size-fits-all insult. The word has essentially no basis a lot of the time when girls call a guy that word because they throw it out like candy. You say one thing a girl doesn’t like, “you’re creepy”. You don’t talk to some girl “you’re creepy”. You’re nice, good intentioned, sociable, “you’re creepy”. You go and say hi as a nice gesture, perhaps at a party, “you’re creepy”. You sit beside some girl in class, “you’re creepy”. It’s… Read more »
No woman or girl would call a guy creepy unless something he did either intentionalluy or unintentionally made her feel that way. If a girl calls you creepy. Dont get mad like you are above and scream about how she should still be giving herself to you like a meaningless object which is the real reason you are angry .. ( see the end of paragraph 3 lol ) but leave the poor girl alone, or the cops will come and arrest your harrassing ass for not listening to this woman who apparently feels you are creepy! I mean come… Read more »
“No woman or girl would call a guy creepy unless something he did either intentionalluy or unintentionally made her feel that way. ” No man or boy would call a woman a slut unless something she did intentionally or unintentionally made him feel that way. Or…you know, you could realize that not all women are like you? That some women do use the word to shame men. I have heard women call a guy creepy because he LOOKED creepy, a guy minding his own business doing NOTHING even remotely related to her, not looking at her. Male preschool and primary… Read more »
Also if a woman or girl feels something is creepy that is valid if this is genuinely how she feels. You see, feelings are neither right or wrong, they just are. If the person is making it up to hurt someone than that would be unkind. but if they genuinely feel it but cannot explain it, that is equally valid! It doesnt necessarily mean the guy did something wrong, it just means that for the girl or woman, they need to listen to their own boundaries as individual human being. Thats all, nothing more! Just try to understand them and… Read more »
Problem is she says it to others, they believe it and this guy’s reputation is fucked because of HER instinct which CAN be wrong. How many guys have said a woman is a slut to their friends, their friend believes it, and that woman has a more difficult time over it? If a man feels a woman is a gold digger, tells his friends, is it fair her reputation gets damaged? Feelings are one thing, but communicating them to others can cause serious problems. Imagine having a husband at the playground with HIS/your children, and another mother says he is… Read more »
I am 46 and have no problem “partying” with young huge breasted girls that like to tweak, and get their titties sucked
I am 46 and have no problem “partying with young huge breasted girls that like to tweak.
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Use of the word “creepy” as a derogatory term is only effective on men who seek the approval of women.
amen bro
You know, I once had a coworker who I thought I got along with reasonably well. We weren’t friends, but we were friendly when we shared a shift. I thought nothing of it. Then I learned that when I was around she went around talking about how “creepy” I was to everyone else. It was honestly the most hurtful thing anyone has ever said about me. I was shocked by how bad it made me feel. Had she called me an asshole or a dick or any other word, sure, I would have been upset, but not like that. Not… Read more »
“Creepy” is a word I apply when very specific nonverbal criteria are met… Or certain verbal ones. A man thirty years older than me starts catcalling from across the street, with every inch of body language screaming aggression? Creepy. A man stands too close and starts leering at my breasts and chatting me up while I’m desperately trying to nudge away from him in the grocery line? I shouldn’t even need to go further into his body language. Creepy. A married man thinking I am stupid enough to believe he’ll leave his wife so he can give me some “Monogamous… Read more »
Dr Raganork, You and morality itself lol agree with what you stated 110 percent. Bullshit to the people who just want to manipulate women and girls by making them feel sorry for them. Oh I lost my puppy the pervert says… please feel sorry for me little girl. All I need is your love, after all I am just an awkward person trying to victimize you because I am not comfortable with women in my age range! No those people who are creepy need to get therapy and if they work hard and are sincere they can indeed over come… Read more »
I don’t think most guys need to worry too much about being perceived as being “creepy”. “Creepy” (to me at least) is that sort of gut feeling you just can’t put a finger on, you couldn’t exaclty explain why, but something just doesn’t sit right. You avoid the “creepy” guy on the bus, you keep your kids away from the “creepy” guy at the park, you didn’t go on that second date because something was just “creepy”. Maybe you’re wrong, but you feel better trusting your gut and being wrong, than ignoring that feeling and being right.
The problem is that “creepy” guys don’t really want love. Sometimes they want blind admiration or total control. When I was young I definitely thought older guys hitting on me were creepy.
Now that I am a bit older than 18, I can discern the difference between a guy who is creepy and one who is just feeling inscecure or not confident in himself around women. I dont think being insecure makes a guy creepy, but sometimes, people for whatever reason just act in such a way that your gut warns you about them and tells you “this feels non respectful and creepy to me, and by God, I need to get the heck away from it.” Every person should trust and respond to thier gut instincts. If a guy doesnt want… Read more »
It’s good to see someone else noting the ubiquity and dehumanization element of this insult. I honestly think “creepy” and “creeper” are the closest thing to the n-word that can be hurled at a white male like myself. I used to be “creepy” because I went to an all-male high school and had no idea how to interact with women. Lack of social skill is the most common reason for a man to be called a “creeper”, but the word implies to my ears, “unloveable” and “potential rapist.” But the reality is, most men who are subject to this epithet… Read more »
Well said.
Defending someone as “creepy”, which I have never had the occasion to do, might seem to label the defender as “creepy”. No matter what the defender says, it’s not going to be taken as an explanation that the creepy label was incorrect. It will be taken as defending creepiness.
People just brushing the edge of Asperger’s could be acting “creepy”. Their ability to see boundaries and read others’ reactions is limited.
A cheerful, socially competent, good-looking guy can get away with some things a nerd or introvert might not.
BTW, the silhouette guy above looks like a douchebag, not a creep.
I agree with John—“crazy” or “psycho” is usually used to describe women who are deemed clingy, “creepy”, or give unwanted attention. And I think it’s also true what a lot of other commenters have pointed out—that there’s a reason the creepy label exists, and it’s because some dudes don’t understand/care about boundaries and have really outdated expectations about women and dating.
Honestly, it’s kind of pathetic that someone is going to whine that women accurately use the word “creepy.” Most words that women get called are much, much worse—cunt, bitch, feminazi, lesbo, psycho, slut, whore, etc.
Yes! I was thinking stalker but crazy/psycho is definitely the female equivalent for guys in my experience. It’s kind of weird because “creepy” can apply to both sexes/genders and still keep the same basic definition (something’s just “off”). Crazy/psycho though… As a female, I wouldn’t call anyone that unless I actually thought there was a mental imbalance that made me feel unsafe. Not uncomfortable, unsafe. I don’t think guys use them that way though. Crazy/psycho girls are the ones who don’t respect boundaries—unreasonably jealous, goes through wallet/drawers/computers, calls their moms ‘just because,’ etc. I think this needs to be left… Read more »
I don’t think “creepy” is a gendered term. I figure that men tend to have this label tacked onto them more than women is because men are more likely (as a group) to act creepy than women (as a group). Thus, you will find more women calling men creepy, than vice-versa. Yes, it can hurt somebody’s reputation. I don’t know a lot of people that use the term “creepy” lightly. They usually reserve the word for people that genuinely creep them out. To say that they’re “wrong” for doing so, or that there’s an “explanation” for that creepy behavior downplays… Read more »