Originally appeared at Hypervocal
By now the controversy surrounding Daniel Tosh’s tiny little rape issue has hit a point where piling on adds very little — unless it’s an argument as jarring and eloquent as Austin comedian Curtis Luciani’s.
(If you’re not caught up, know this: Tosh, who hosts a show on Comedy Central, performed at the Laugh Factory in Hollywood and allegedly launched into a bit about how anything, no matter how offensive or taboo, can and should be turned into jokes. Anything, even rape. A woman in the audience stood up and said, “Rape jokes are never funny,” to which Tosh said something about how he’d like to see this woman “raped by five guys” right now. When the story was posted online, Twitter went nuts.)
The great thing about the Tosh debate is that what started out as Rape jokes good! Rape jokes bad! has turned into a nuanced breakdown and discussion of the technique behind a meaningful, effective, poignant, good rape joke. What makes some more effective than others? When your topic is as triggering as rape, and when a significant portion of your audience has likely experienced some form of sexual assault, how do you acknowledge them?
Thing is, this isn’t an issue of anyone being “censored” or “silenced” or not “allowed” to do anything. People love comedy, especially offensive, edgy comedy. The surprising consensus: People actually want more rape jokes. But we want them to be fucking smart. The takeaway from this whole thing, for comedians and anyone, really, should be a crash course in taking the craft of offensive-comedy writing to the next level (see Lindy West’s unbelievably hilarious and thorough “How to Make a Rape Joke.”)
Anyway, Curtis Luciani. Take it away.
Let’s imagine a world in which women cut men’s dicks off. Like, frequently. To the extent that one in five men has had his dick cut off by a woman or had a woman attempt to cut his dick off.
(I apologize immediately if it sounds like I’m being flip. I am not being flip. Imagine the pain and shame and humiliation of someone cutting your dick off. Imagine it in earnest.)
Sometimes it’s a clear-cut case where a woman attacks you in the street, out of nowhere, and cuts your dick off. But more often it’s a situation where you actually know the woman, maybe you trust her, maybe you think everything’s okay, and then one day she cuts your dick off.
Still with me? This is going to take a while. I’ll tell you when I’m done. (And if you think I’m being insufferably self-righteous: Good news, you don’t have to read this!)
Okay, now let’s also say that the shame and guilt around having your dick cut off is so strong that many dick-cuttings go completely unreported. After all, someone is likely to raise the question of whether or not you were “asking for it” in one way or another. And if you do accuse a woman of cutting your dick off, you can expect to see people (quite naturally) rally to her defense and slander your character in response.
You can expect to see her friends … who are maybe also friends or yours … shrug their shoulders and say “Well, I don’t know, it’s complicated … it sounds like something was just happening between the two of them and maybe it got out of hand. I dunno. But I know that Sarah’s not a bad gal. I know she would never, like, MALICIOUSLY cut a dude’s dick off.”
So, a shitty state of affairs for the men-folk of our imaginary world, yes?
Now imagine that in this world, something like 90 percent of professional performing comedians are women. And they’ve accepted that there are certain codes of behavior when it comes to comedy. Most people who “like comedy” generally accept the premise that there are no subject areas that cannot be somehow given a comic treatment, but it is also accepted, as a practical rule, that as the subject gets more troubling, more intense, more painful, a more skilled approach is necessary to find the humor in it.
However, it is also accepted that people are people and they are going to have authentic responses to things. It is accepted, for example, that you probably should not go in front of an audience that contains several black people and start tossing around the N-word unless you have an EXCEPTIONALLY sophisticated and road-tested routine built around it, one that you are confident will overcome the very significant risk you are incurring. If a comedian did this and did NOT overcome the risk, no one would be shocked if the audience shouted her down and stormed her out of the club, nor would anyone be particularly eager to defend her.
HOWEVER, there’s this ONE thing. Many of the comediennes of this world have this ONE little sticking point. One little thing. It just IRKS the hell out of them that they can’t seem to make jokes about cutting dicks off without some whiny pussy male in the audience throwing a shit fit about it!
You see where this is going. And it’s brilliant. Continue reading on CultureMap Austin.
About Cooper Fleishman
What a bunch of strange comments here. Seem I can’t even understand. Rape is indefensible and it doesn’t have to be the worst thing in the world to be horrible. Noting does. The author has used hyperbole to make a point and draw out a response from the readers. Looks like he got one. Let all the poisons that live in the mud bubble up I guess. Many of these responses tell us why rape is still such a problem. doesn’t look like we’ve made much progress since leaving the caves.
No, the analogy was deeply offensive for two reasons:
1) in the real examples of the supposed hypothetical (penises getting cut off) the reaction has been suck jokes, some from men but quite a few from women, not to mention outright celebration by some.
2) the analogy didn’t even need to be used because MEN ARE RAPED and invariably thus is seen as a subject of humor.
Exactly,
There’s a growing cadre of movies in which male rape is seen as funny.
The way in which male victimization and trauma sexual or otherwise is not the most sickening flaw here as this is not the standard “suppose it was your sister” type argument. What makes this hypothetical dystopia so offensive to me is that it is predicated on the maternalistic, manhating assumption that males are inherently incapable of empathy and that the only was to show us silly menfolk the error of our ways in a case such as this to shock us into enlightenment. And of course what better way to achieve that ends than to attack what is sexistly assumed to be most important component of our male selves.. our penises.
Grow up. Rape is not a fate worse than death. Rape doesn’t take something from you that can’t be gotten back. Rape isn’t a would that never heals – the people who made statements like that are clueless. Most people deal with bad things, and most people move on from them. We shouldn’t be giving people any more of an excuse than they already have to wallow in the worst things that ever happened to them. We should be helping them move on.
THAT is why bullshit like this is terrible. People will only heal if they let themselves heal. They won’t do that if people keep up with this histrionic bullshit, where they’ve suffered the most terrible thing that they could ever suffer, and now they are somehow forever less than they were before. Being raped isn’t being blinded. Being raped isn’t being paralyzed. It isn’t having your limbs cut off. It isn’t having your entire gender stolen from you. It isn’t on par with any of those things. If you let yourself, you will get better from being raped. The damage isn’t forever unless cling to that pain like a baby clings to its blankie.
@ John
“The author has used hyperbole to make a point and draw out a response from the readers. Looks like he got one.”
Tosh wanted to shut down a heckler and did. Does that make him immune to criticism because he succeeded at what he wanted to do? Why then is this author critical of Tosh? The author may have sought a reaction and received it, but that doesn’t make him immune to criticism.
I don’t think rape jokes are particularly funny, but then I don’t think a lot of what passes for comedy is funny. Lest you think I have no sense of humor, there are South Park episodes that had me laughing so hard that my stomach hurt. Crude comedy, done well, can be hilarious. The problem is that most comics just stop at crude and never get to funny. The South Park episode where terrorists put a nuclear bomb in Hillary Clinton’s vagina was funny because it wasn’t merely mocking Hillary in a crude, silly, misogynistic way, it was brutally mocking our terror of a powerful political woman. Talk about a vagina dentata! It was so over-the-top offensive that eventually you had to realize that it was not misogyny, it was a parody of misogyny. Obviously this is a fine line and I am sure there are people who can watch that episode and not see the satire at all. But I thought it was very, very clever. So I am not going to say that a rape joke could never ever be funny but 99% of the time it won’t be funny because it takes a master comedian to pull that off that kind of humor. Unfortunately, most stand-up comedians will just be like “har har, rape joke, what, you don’t like it? Free speech, b!tch!” and that is not funny, it’s just lame.
You rationalized to make yourself be OK with such humor. This episode is more a tribute to 24 and a fascination with suit case nukes and the word snizz than anything else.
I’m guessing you, like most people here, aren’t aware of Dave Chappelle’s rape joke routine. I won’t retell it, because I don’t tend to be good at retelling jokes. YouTube.
You rationalized to make yourself be OK with such humor. This episode is more a tribute to 24 and a fascination with suit case nukes and the word snizz than anything else.
South Park works on many levels. That’s why it’s so great.
Yeah, but you mentioned the specifics of a single episode which doesn’t support speculation over intention because there is a commentary.
Well whatev. I think it’s a funny episode because it works on many levels. You are free to disagree and laugh because you like the fart jokes. That’s kind of my point. Salud!
And you are free to rationalize away fart jokes…even when Trey Parker tells you it’s just a fart joke with no deeper meaning. Snizz isn’t satire on how powerful women are viewed.
Well gosh thank you for disabusing me of my silly notion that that the humor in South Park can be quite intelligent amid all the stupidity. Guess I will stop watching it now because it is just mindless crude drivel about farting. Thank you, really!
P.s. I KNOW that Parker and Stone may or may not consciously intend to parody views of powerful women because they are artists and they just “create” but in doing that, I will repeat, they create stuff that works on many levels, which we can all discuss and argue about and agree or disagree with each other about. That’s what people have done with art since time immemorial.
Caveman Urg. “Cave painting of horse is pretty. Makes me think of freedom and power of horse running across plains.”
Caveman Brrgh. “No, you stupid. Painter was not thinking of freedom of horse. He was thinking that horse is tasty to eat. Horse is just running away from hunter. Doesn’t mean anything.”
Anyway, as I said, you are free to disagree with me and defend the empty stupidity of South Park against all claims to the contrary!
Cheers!
LMAO …and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar…
You wouldn’t happen to own a women’s bookstore in Portland would you?
And really? This ain’t about every South Park joke. Your comment was about the snuke, not ALL of South Park. And you were wrong! Try to keep on track.
Oh shit, you were right! On the internet, too!
Did they say, by any chance, that it definitely had nothing at all to do with anything Sarah said, about powerful women and the like? I’m afraid I have to agree with Sarah, on the point made regarding interpretation. Who gives a fuck what the person who made it says, what’s important is how I perceive it. That’s the difference at times between art and petty vandalism.
As outrageous as his jokes were, how many thousands more John Bobbitt and Catherine Kieu Becker penis chopping off jokes have there been than his – and these were about things that actually happened.
Why so much more outrage over Tosh’s than the penis chopping off jokes?
That’s depressingly easy to answer, Eric–indeed, I think you already know the answer.
Jokes at men’s expense are always OK. Jokes that offend women are hate crimes.
I don’t take the concern over Tosh’s or any other rape jokes seriously. Their indignation is not at all righteous. It’s just another excuse for gender warriors to attack.
I will take their concerns seriously when they have the same level of indigation over the Catherine Kieu Becker or Bobbitt type okes, which they didn’t/don’t voice any objection to. At all. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.
May I ask who “they” may be?
We don’t have to imagine. We already live in a world where women cut men’s dicks off and surpisingly, women seem to find it hilarious. Chalk it up to ‘rape culture’ if you will. However, I watch TV and it seems to okay for women to be violent towards men and find humour in it, but the reverse is unacceptable. Yes, even female-on-male rape is acceptable…especially in soap operas. Instead, let’s imagine a world where violence is funny against both sexes or not funny towards both. Choose either/or. That would actually be progressive instead of…It’s okay for women on The Talk to laugh at a dude getting his penis cut off, but it’s unacceptable for a man to toss around a few rape jokes. At least in the rape joke, no female was harmed in the process no?
Moderators,
Why where my comments in response to dahlingdarling’s statements about feminism removed?
Luckey,
If you have a question about comment moderation you can view our comment policy. If you still have more questions feel free to e-mail the publisher, Lisa Hickey at lisa@goodmenproject.com.
Just in case this hasn’t been said enough. The response posted in this article is sexist, inappropriate, and does absolutely nothing but make those support it into d-bags. Instead of imagining a world in which women who are raped to men who are castrated why not compare rape to… iunno, RAPE? But, I digress, because people who think sexist snark is an acceptable response to legitimate dialogue probably don’t deserve to be in the conversation.
Anhyoo, let me throw my two cents in that I’ve posted elsewhere:
Reading about the Tosh Laugh Factory Heckler Incident has gotten my ire up a little ’bout all the ignorant commentary from both sides who are looking for excuses to fuel their outrage or apathy.
1. Not all rape victims are women, nor are all rapists men. So let’s get out of that ignorant victim meta-narrative. Thank you very much!
2. Most rape victims in America are actually men! Specifically men in prison. (See Christopher Glazek’s article in n+1 magazine.)
3. Comedy is an art-form specifically made for tackling the obscene, taboo, and questionable subjects of the day. This doesn’t mean comedians can joke about anything without respect, but rather that comedy is uniquely designed to make us laugh and think about things we normally don’t.
4. I have never seen this level of outrage regarding prison rape jokes. In fact, nobody bats an eye when someone says, “don’t drop the soap, yuk yuk yuk!” But I digress: if rape jokes are off-limits for comedy, then let’s be consistent.
5. It is NEVER okay to purport that someone getting raped is funny. Rape victims are slammed enough in society without making a joke of it. Maybe someday that’ll be different and we can talk about someone getting raped like we talk about killing someone (with tongue obviously in cheek) but until then, just stop. Those who keep defending the joke itself pretty much fail at showing their humanity.
6. Hecklers suck. Any comedian will tell you that hecklers are pretty much the bottom barrel of humanity. If you heckle, you are asking to be publicly attacked and humiliated by the comedian on stage.
7. This doesn’t mean the heckler in this incident deserves to be raped, or that it would be funny if she was raped. (See #4.) But rather that her initial heckle — y’know, what she actually said, about rape jokes not being funny — was essentially her waiving her right not to be publicly scorned by the comedian. (See #3.)
8. The way Tosh handled this heckler was not comedic. It was just angry and inappropriate. If it had been funny that might’ve changed things — but it wasn’t. Any other time, his joke would’ve been funny: “I think Gatorade is lame [gets washed over in gatorade].” But rape? Nope, not funny.
9. Tosh is a trashy comedian. Why is anyone surprised? In fact, lots of mainstream comics make questionable jokes like this ALL. THE. TIME. See: Lenny Bruce, Georgie Carlin, Dane Cook, and every Adam Sandler movie ever made. The people outraged about Tosh don’t seem to care about these other instances, making me suspicious of their intentions.
10. The hypocrisy coming from both sides totally makes me not care about what either is saying.
Anyhoo, that is all.
I agree with alot of this, I was just wondering about number 5 though. I don’t think someone actually getting raped (or mutilated or beaten up or killed or whatever) is funny, but I can see how jokes about hypothetical crimes happening to hypothetical people can be funny. Do you think rape is an exception to this?
Here’s more proof that there’s no need to imagine the world suggested by the author of this article, since it already exists: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/fei-lin-penis_n_1699017.html . Pay attention to the comments, and what the ratio is of this-is-serious to this-is-hilarious types of comments.