I woke this morning expecting to read reviews of the newest Batman movie. My 16-year-old son had been counting the days to the premier and was in attendance last night. I had seen that Tyler Segan, our local hockey star, had put out word that he was looking for a date and had gotten hundreds of responses. I was actually thinking about Heath Ledger, who is perhaps my favorite actor of all time for his roles in Brokeback Mountain and as the Joker just before dying of an overdose. The deep dark part of masculinity that Ledger showed in his Joker role seemed somehow connected to his tragic end only months later.
What I didn’t expect was to hear that a Colorado boy had sent tear gas into a packed theater before opening fire in a mass murder rampage. My wife informed me of this over my coffee as I worked furiously on a bunch of trivial fatherly duties.
Honestly, I tried to ignore what she had told me. I didn’t want to hear about another young, white male who had gone supernova, imploding in on himself to such an extent that his only solution was to kill himself and take as many people with him as he could in some cosmic scale cry for help gone horribly wrong. I kept coming back to Heath Ledger as the Joker in my mind’s eye.
Then I began to think about the list–the horrible long list–of similar incidents in the last decade of young people being massacred at the hands of an insane murderer. I tried to come up with one female involved in one of these mass killings. And I couldn’t think of a single one.
So I am left with the question of what is going on with our boys that they exclusively are prone to the strike to such powerful, insane, derranged, and hurtful forces that would cause some tiny fraction to come up with a plan to go into a school or a movie theater or an isolated island to kill as many innocent children as possible?
At its most basic core, the Good Men Project was founded to explore the answer to that question. Unfortunately, as last night demonstrates, we have an awful long way to go.
It appears the guy was schizophrenic. The school shrink–which means he was seeing someone for his problem–sent a warning to the school authorities. What happened to that warning is not yet known. But perhaps his dropping out interrupted the communication line to….whoever was supposed to get it next. (Wonder if there’s a procedure for passing on the information to non-school authorities). All of which invalidates 90% of the we-have-a-terrible-society-especially-regarding-men speculation. Better to wait for the facts, unless unloading the aforementioned speculation is an end in itself. As to sweltering; do we know if he was doing without air conditioning? I… Read more »
I don’t think a lot of generalizations can be taken from a mass murder. The drivers in this case that have to be studied are much more specific to this one person. There is an adage that bad law and policies, typically come from extreme cases.
I think there is less to learn here than most people think, except maybe how easy it is for another person to randomly end your life.
All about the ego, or rather lack of. Men have a lot of latent aggression. You need self esteem (ego) to channel it into something constructive. If not… You know the rest
He didn’t kill himself.
That is like saying suicide by cop is not real.
I think Jill’s point was that he’s still alive. More like attempted suicide by cop. Except he also surrendered without a fight.
12 dead in a mass shooting, endless medial coverage but we also have the following which in not recognized nearly on the same scale … how come?
Jun 17, 2012 – Another sweltering weekend brought more violence to Chicago’s streets – with eight people killed and 37 others wounded in shootings
July 18, 2012 at 12:00 a.m. … Meanwhile, more people have been stabbed to death in Chicago so far this year than in all of 2011
I would venture to say that many of the above involve teens.
Tom, you make a good point. As we look at the various risk factors for increased violence, we have to look beyond the individual. You point to other factors that we need to address such as our practices that increasingly heat up the planet. When people are sweltering, it contributes to increased risk. Also as we have more young men who don’t have mentoring, don’t have jobs, and don’t feel connected to the community, violence is more prevalent. There is no one cause that will explain what happened in Colorado, but multiple risk factors can be addressed and changed to… Read more »
Jed, as I said before. Helplessness and hopelessness, two words that sum up many of the kids that I work with. It breaks my heart when a young man is sitting in front of me and seriously says that he doesn’t expect to live to see the age of 21 and accordingly, why should he bother with treatment much less a plan to go to school and finish. I’d also like to ask this. Why is the wrap/pop music industry off limits as to regulating what they produce? This has been a thorn in big toe for many years. I’d… Read more »
Tom,
As you may know I’ve been working to help men and the women who love them for more than 40 years. I just launched a program with a number of colleagues to Save a Million Males over the next 3 years. You can check it out at my website, http://www.MenAlive.com. Sounds like we are on a similar path.
Chances are in this case, this guy will more then likely have some mental health issues which in this case AGAIN shows how men/boys are being ignored as to their needs. Two words, “hopelessness” and “helplessness “ After skimming through the various responses, I hope this doesn’t turn into a gun rights thread, or a feminists are the reason thread. It’s not getting us anywhere fast. We, as a society, needs to start to pay attention to what’s going on with men/boys and start to think about solutions. Mental illness (which in my eyes includes addictions) is poorly funded. When… Read more »
“So I am left with the question of what is going on with our boys that they exclusively are prone to the strike to such powerful, insane, derranged, and hurtful forces that would cause some tiny fraction to come up with a plan to go into a school or a movie theater or an isolated island to kill as many innocent children as possible?” If the “exclusively” were true, than this would be a statement about girls and we should ask why aren’t they doing such things. As only “some tiny fraction” of the boys engages in such appalling behaviour,… Read more »
When I read about the shooting the first thing I thought of was men commit suicide four times as often as women. Could this be another manifestation of that? The shooter like most of them had to recognize that this was going to be the end for him, whether he rots in prison or is killed. He supposedly even booby trapped his residence. I suspect that the difference is that in these cases the young men decide to go out with a bang to either gain notoriety or give society, who they may have seen as wronging them, the finger… Read more »
James Holmes is a 24-year-old man, not a boy. We do not know anything about him other than his name, what college he graduated from, and that he was methodical in his attack on the people in the theater. We should not jump to conclusions about why Holmes did what he did, let alone speculate about how this is somehow connected to masculinity.
I think each mass shooting has to be viewed on a case-by-case basis. In cases like Columbine and Virginia Tech, it’s easy to see that they were psychopaths or had a history of mental illness. In this particular case, this Aurora man appears to have been extremely intelligent and possibly so intelligent that at some point he went mad. There is a fine line between intelligence and insanity. Murder is suicide turned outward. Most troubled females are more likely to committ suicide privately through overdosing on pills, slitting their wrists, or through asphyxiation. Most males will likely committ suicide privately… Read more »
Do you take the same laisse faire attitude when women do bad things, OR have bad things done to them, you must be a wizz when people disguss trying to cut down on rapes…”Oh well, people will just rape other people , no big deal”
Janet – I was just throwing my opinion out there and I certainly don’t have the answers. While I may not be a ‘wizz’ at least I can address other adults with a certain amount of respect. I’m not one who gets off on long posts and I expect most people can connect the dots on their own. Rape obviously happens more often than mass murder and the motivation is quite different.
@ Leyla I agree with much of what you said, but there are minor points. “Murder is suicide turned outward. Most troubled females are more likely to committ suicide privately through overdosing on pills, slitting their wrists, or through asphyxiation.” I think most murders are just murders, not suicides turned outward. I think you’re right in this case because it seems as if he knew this was it for him as with many of the other mass murderers. It’s probably worth noting that this wasn’t the case with Timothy McVeigh. His choice of weapon, car bomb, indicated thoughts of escape.… Read more »
@John Gottman, I suppose I should have been more clear in regard to ‘murder is suicide turned outward’ in regard to mass murder. This is from a NY Times article ‘The Unknown Why in the Aurora Killings’, ‘Psychologists describe depression as anger turned inward. When that anger is somehow turned around, and projected outward, watch out.’ And I completely agree with you that women who attempt suicide are often times crying for help and they aren’t completely convinced so they are less likely to turn it outward onto others. Another possible contributing factor; society tends to support a man’s right… Read more »
@John Gottman,
I suppose I should have clarified; I meant the ‘murder is suicide turned outward’ in regard to mass murders.
The other thing I wonder about is, as a society, are we more supportive of a man’s right to anger than we are if he had depression, or sought help through a psychiatrist or therapist. We say things like ‘man-up’ because men aren’t supposed to have feelings. Are we giving boys and men an outlet to express themselves without attacking their masculinity?
“We say things like ‘man-up’ because men aren’t supposed to have feelings.”
Is that the case? Or is it not possible man up is said because a man is supposed to be in control of his feelings, not ruled by them?
I think we all know the connotation of ‘man-up’ in today’s society. Every person should be able to control their feelings but expressing ones feelings does not mean they are ruled by them.
Is that the case? Or is it not possible man up is said because a man is supposed to be in control of his feelings, not ruled by them? Possible, just not very likely. It’s not that a man is supposed to be in control of his feelings in fact I’d say it’s quite the opposite in a lot of cases. Telling a guy to “man up” usually more “You are doing something with your feelings that neither I nor society approve of. You should be doing it the way we say you should” than “You should keep your feelings… Read more »
“you should be doing it the way we say you should in no way denies the existence of feelings, which is what my initial objection was. Don’t get me wrong, I dislike the term man up, but I do not agree it is a denial of the existence of male feelings or even a denial of the acceptance that emotions exist within men (as per Leyla’s assertion), only a denial of the opportunity to express them however one desires. At least, when men say it to other men. When men tell other men to man up, it is usually accompanied… Read more »
(Thinking about this a bit I may be about to go against what I said above.) but I do not agree it is a denial of the existence of male feelings or even a denial of the acceptance that emotions exist within men (as per Leyla’s assertion) I think, at least in some cases, it is exactly that that is going on. With your example of sadness yes there times where the use of “man up” is what you say but also it is used in the form of denying men their feelings, no acknowledgement included. When men tell other… Read more »
” But that ain’t the only way it is used.”
Never claimed it was.
That was at your disagreement that it is a denial of male feelings.
Sorry Danny, but I asked if it was possible it was something else. You have since agreed it could be. At no point did I say it wasn’t a denial, only questioned if denial was “the” explanation.
No need to apologize.
When you replied to my first response here you said you don’t agree that it is a denial of male feelings which prompted me to continue.
So just to be clear are we by chance both agreeing that sometimes it’s a denial of male feelings, sometimes an attempt to get a guy to reign in his feelings, etc…
Then I began to think about the list–the horrible long list–of similar incidents in the last decade of young people being massacred at the hands of an insane murderer. I tried to come up with one female involved in one of these mass killings. And I couldn’t think of a single one. Jennifer San Marco; shot and killed 6 people on the 30th of January 2006 in Goleta, California. Earlier than a decade ago: Sylvia Seegrist: Shot and killed 3 people and wounded 7 on 30th of October 1985. Laurie Wasserman Dann entered a Elementary school in Illinois om May… Read more »
Thanks for the correction on women murderers, Tamen. I wasn’t trying to make this post a research piece since I know very little on this topic just my reactions to today’s news. I don’t think I said that it never happened before. I do feel that it is happening more often.
No, you didn’t say it categorically and I should’ve used the word “imply” rather than “claim”.
You are of course right that men are more often than women perpetrators of crimes like this. This suggest to me that it’s not something inherent in men (if only men did commit such crimes it could suggest such a thing). Hence I felt it was important to point out that there indeed has been female perpetrators of this type of crime.
Oh, please, get real. 99% of mass murderers and serial killers are male. And funny how you use a case from 1979 to “prove” that the number of mass murders by women is increasing. Your “proof” seems to come in the form of anecdotal evidence rather than statistics.
It was not my intention to prove that the frequency of mass murders with female perpetrators have been increasing. It seems there has been a misunderstanding regarding my statement: Although the frequency seem to be increasing (I haven’t researced by how much) and the majority of perpetrators are men I find it a bit myopic to claim that it never happened before and that it’s only men who commit mass murder. By this I meant to refer to the superset of mass murders regardless of the gender of the perpetrators. In short; even though school massacres have been recorded as… Read more »
Here are some more:
http://hunteremkay.com/2011/11/famous-women-mass-murderers-in-recent-history/
I’m breaking my rule of not posting to say this… It is a combination of factors. It is the fact that society insists men cannot be victims. We are not allowed to take the role of victim even if we are victimized. We are shamed and isolated if we choose to show emotion publicly that isn’t bravado or anger. It is a society that stigmatizes mental health issues for all and doubly so for men. Men who are suffering are told not to speak up. We can’t ask for help because we aren’t supposed to need it. We retreat to… Read more »
Well said Collin. Makes me think of the men I have interviewed who have come home from war with PTSD. So hard to get them to admit they even have a problem because they have been told for so long that to show weakness is not manly. Obviously in the end it is the weakness, the failure, the admission of pain that sets us free as men. Or at least it did me. I held it all in until one day my world blew up. I had to admit complete defeat. Then everything changed and my view of manhood with… Read more »
Collin, This is all good, but you missed the final point: You will see, you will ALL see, and you will care, but it will be too late, because I can buy a gun, and no-one will ask me why. I can buy another and another and the only concern will be how much ammunition. It has always stuck me as a bit ingenuous that we don’t ask ‘What are you planning to use the gun for’ questions. If I want to buy a hammer, the sales person will ask all sorts of questions about how I intend to use… Read more »
I wonder if there’s any way to provide an incentive for those questions to be regularly asked at gun sales. Like maybe a bounty on reporting suspicious people if it turns out they in fact had something disqualifying them from buying a firearm.
Side note: Colorado requires background checks for all gun sales.
The issue with the gun is that it makes one an efficient mass murderer. A person armed with a knife is less like to attack a packed movie theater so the presence of the gun expands the number of potential targets. There was a reason the terrorist used five guys per plane on 9/11. They only had box cutters and needed the numbers to intimidate the passengers. I don’t have a problem with restricting or banning the sale of guns, but right now, I have little fear of walking the streets at night. That might change in 10 or 20… Read more »
“I don’t have a problem with restricting or banning the sale of guns, but right now, I have little fear of walking the streets at night.” Agreed. My problem with the whole gun control aspect is threefold. 1:Banning guns isn’t going to do anything to address the cause of these events, it will only change the tools used. And last thing I want is more suicide bombers because guns became harder to get. 2: Most of the problems revolving around guns (IE gang activity and armed robbery) involve illegally possessed guns. Meaning gun control will have very little impact on… Read more »
It’s easier to kill a lot of people with a gun, but you can still wreak a lot of havoc with just a knife and a truck.
Thank you for hitting the nail on the head. In a society that hammers into mens heads that if they talk to women about how they feel, it is a major turn off. Where women are taught that men are “easy to figure out” and where when asked what is on your mind, most men prefer to default to “nothing” rather then explain the long chain of events that is going on inside their heads (I still do this unfortunately) It practically becomes instinctual to not say anything for fear of what someone else might think. It is not uncommon… Read more »
But lets ignore the fact that the primary reason women don’t go on shooting sprees, is because they don’t invest in the firepower as a hobby for the purpose of distracting them from how miserable their life is,…. I dare say a reason more primary than this is that women are not only not getting “violence is the answer, violence is the way to prove you’re a man, violence is a major part of your gender identity” drilled into their heads but they are for the most part actively turned away from it in the form of getting “violence is… Read more »
I agree with you, i would also add (though this is just my personal opinion) I think the reason men choose more violent means is because when you (men) are basically told to bottle everything up inside, and men are also told they have to be assertive, then any decision you (men) make, is final. When your decision is final, you don’t fuck around. This is very common, it is not all that different from when men break up a relationship and just cut it off (as apposed to talking it out) conversely you can look at the behavior in… Read more »
I suspect it is one part stripping down of boys self esteem, tearing boys down so that girls can shine (examples, see zero tolerance policies and the current Title IX plans for STEMFields). One part denying boys support and empathy, men are expected to be tough and stoic, are ridiculed when they are not, but furthermore, they are even denied the right to be a victim (see VAWA and Verizon’s monster PSA). Lastly is one part self fulfilling prophesy, as we have been telling society that boys and men are toxic, dangerous and violent. It’s been said before (I think… Read more »
Some truth there Mark. Obviously I have spent a lot of time looking for men who are inspiring (to me anyhow) in hopes that we can change the view of manhood.
Tom, I’ve been working with violent men for more than 40 years and its clear to me that the causes of violence are multi-dimensional and reducing violence will require that we make changes on the personal level, the inter-personal level, and on the societal level. The World Health Organization published a report on Violence and health: In the introduction Nelson Mandela said, “Many who live with violence day in and day out assume that it is an intrinsic part of the human condition. But this is not so. Violence can be prevented. Violent cultures can be turned around. In my… Read more »
I usually say “Treat men like animals and don’t be surprised when they become them”. Mostly in regards to prison but it does apply elsewhere.
Uneducated right-wing people always want to blame feminism for everything bad that happens to men or boys. They project their hatred of feminists onto events like this which is just ludicrous because 99.99 percent of men and boys will never commit a mass murder
Funny, I didn’t mention feminism in my post. I mentioned a number of ways men are harmed, and a number of policies and tendencies that have a hugely negative impact on men. You’re the one that connected the dots to feminism. As to your second paragraph, is it not a feminist who is here writing an article of how evil men are for being all the mass murderers, despite the fact, by your own words, 99.99 percent of men and boys will never commit mass murder (or any murder for that matter, mass or otherwise)? Is it not a feminist… Read more »
I must apologize to Tom. I got this article and the other one on this topic mixed up, this article is not the one I feel is “a feminist projecting their hatred of men” within their article.
No amount of gun control can heal a broken spirit. Hurt people hurt people. To blame this on the method is part of the problem that ignores mental illness. We need to create a culture that encourages people in pain to seek help. Blaming the method also spits in the face of the way we allow children to grow up with inefficient coping skills for the reality of life. Sometimes life hurts. Sometimes it doesn’t. And if you grow up insulated from any painful consequence, how can you ever expect to feel real joy? When our culture glorifies things that… Read more »
@Joss … yup
Seriously? You’re going to lump every bit of fantasy entertainment in? Maybe it’s the fact that men in particular aren’t encouraged to open up n seek support for their pain. Maybe it’s just some people crack and want to kill a lot of people…
“Blaming the method also spits in the face of the way we allow children to grow up with inefficient coping skills for the reality of life”
99.9% of kids will never commit a mass murder, regardless of their “coping skills.”
I think it’s pretty simple really. Men grow up being told that, in order to be a man, they have to be either this:
http://www.writerscafe.org/uploads/stories/f411652dd746b72284ad28620e434892.jpg
Or this:
http://www.lasikdenver.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/doctor.jpg
A man is either a master of the physical world or the financial one, ideally both. Some men who fail at the latter take out some of their pain and frustration by becoming a twisted version of the former.
No, no, respectfully, no. I’m so tired of listening to people regurgitate left-over 1960’s crack-pot sociology wishful thinking that we humans are what we are only because ‘society’ has told us how to be, or that we “grow up being told” to do something. You really think this shooter was actually raised to go in and take out a theater of people? Don’t you think there is likely that something lay very deep within his psyche that no matter what, it was waiting to seep out? Yes, we do have cultural influences that shape and form our behaviors in some… Read more »
@JC ….How does this address the fact that women have done similar, as was pointed out in another response?
Oh, please, men are far more likely to kill than women and statistics prove it.
So it’s less about being a man, more about being human?
Men are more likely to get caught. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/04/02/10987663-nurse-sentenced-to-life-for-killing-patients-by-injecting-them-with-bleach?lite This article has more nurse mass murderers. http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/angels/female_nurses/index.html “An average of 195,000 people in the USA died due to potentially preventable, in-hospital medical errors in each of the years 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to a new study of 37 million patient records that was released today by HealthGrades, the healthcare quality company.” http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/11856.php 95% of nurses are women. We know nurses have killed before and with almost 200,000 people dying from preventable medical error, it makes you wonder. Women are also the primary caretakers of children and that doesn’t count deaths… Read more »
Yes this is all very chicken little-ish. Mass Murder is much less common than mommy infanticide.
Can’t follow the 2nd part though.
This article is disappointing and frankly sickening. Less than 24 hours ago a young man committed a horrible, tragic act. Twelve people are dead and around 60 are injured. It is tragic. The man who did this was pretty obviously mentally disturbed. We don’t know why he did what he did, or even if he had a reason. At the moment it is a senseless tragedy. I have yet to see a politician come on and try to insert a firearm agenda into this discussion, which is more than I can say for you, Tom. How dare you turn this… Read more »
What she said.
.
Oh come on, save the indignation. Tom doesn’t mention firearm agenda in his post or any comments up until now. You’re confusing commenters with posters. What’s wrong with talking about your personal reaction to a tragedy? Tom isn’t saying that his reaction is some how more important than those actually close to the victims. He’s not going to the victims family and saying, “excuse me, I know you’re grieving and its kind of raw, but what is it with boys these days?” Trying to make sense of a senseless act is what we do as humans. Wanting to know the… Read more »
Heather I actually didn’t say much about the what or the why. I just don’t know. I was just reflecting on the tragedy. If you find that disappointing than don’t read it. I was trying to create space for people to talk about how they felt and also connect it to the mission of GMP. At least from the comments most people got that and appreciated it.
Oh so it’s wrong to bring gender into it now? I suppose a good time to bring it up will be the next time someone wants to show how women aren’t as violent as men and throw around some number about how most violent crimes are committed by men right? Its only fine to talk about the violence that men and boys commit when its used as a silencing tool against men and boys or something? But no that can’t be it because when we stay silent about it people then turn around and want to know why we are… Read more »
I’ve been saying for years that the pattern of mass shootings, and violent crime in general, in constantly overlooked. The strong pattern that it is boys and men should incite us all to interrogate what it means to be a man, and contemporary expectations of masculinity. Surely, media-driven masculinity and the social pressure to be manly has something to do with it. That much should be obvious, yet we constantly explain such shootings as the behaviour of thugs or people who have gone mad or have ‘snapped.’ (I can only think of one open-fire incident where a girl or woman… Read more »
Wow. What a bunch of self loathing man hate!
And black people are more violent too rigghtt??? Nope .Who gets arrested. What’s deemed a crime. Who goes to jail and who gets put on TV is all political. My grandmother was a foster kid for tens of abused kids. None of these singe moms ever spent a day in jail
.
I think you are too steeped in your own task to shed some objective light on this topic. “Our boys” are not doing this. A better question would be to ask what is the tipping point of people going mad and committing atrocities and how can we prevent it? Creating a gender divide obfuscates the topic. There have been notorious mothers who have killed all their children. Men commit more violent crimes because we live in a patriarchy, not because they are men. And most people in society don’t come anywhere near committing crimes like this. These cases represent the… Read more »
Is this directed at Tom, or people in general or towards some1 else?
John D: Was that comment a reply to mine above?
The first part is directed at Tom (I also forgot to mention Amy Bishop who in 2010 shot and killed 3 and wounded 3) as he couldn’t recall any women being involved in any mass shootings in the last decade.
The second part is directed at several people who said that these things never happened before.
Why is it that these kinds of mass shootings have only happened in the last thirty years or so? Can anyone think of a similar incident prior to 1970?
Non-soldiers didn’t use to have access to automatic weapons. Without the ability to fire many shots very quickly, you can’t have mass killing.
And I’d like to know what valid reason any civilian has for owning a machine gun. Hunting? You use a rifle. Self-defense? A handgun. Why is anyone allowed to buy weapons that can kill this many people??
Agree wholeheartedly. I am fine with the right to bear arms. But I see no reason for a civilian to have military-grade weapons with the potential to do so much harm. My brother-in-law is a bit of a gun nut. I’m not sure of his entire arsenal but I know he does have an AK-47. I mean, if you like guns and collect them, that’s fine… but keep them locked and stored on display or something. For fuck’s sake don’t USE them. That’s just my personal opinion, by the way. I don’t know enough about gun control laws or anything… Read more »
A militia not being able to arm themselves with military weaponry is a pretty useless militia.
Not true.
Fully automatic weapons have been strictly controlled in the US since 1934. Semiautomatic weapons have been available since the early 1900’s, so I don’t believe availability of certain kinds of guns is the cause of the increase in mass shootings in the last 30-40 years.
I have always found that ‘anger’ and ‘sadness’ are two different expressions of the same emotion, and that it’s very easy to turn one into the other. However, I think that boys are more likely to be told that crying and sadness denotes weakness. Rather, I think that girls are more likely to be encouraged to express the emotion as sadness, and boys as anger. I personally find that expressing it as anger is usually more productive and less harmful. However, when the emotion is extreme, sadness manifests itself as self-harm, while anger is more easily manifested as harm to… Read more »
I would argue that men aren’t allowed to express their anger as much as society pretends. Male anger is viewed as a no no.
Excerpt:
“I didn’t want to hear about another young, white male who had gone supernova, imploding in on himself to such an extent that his only solution was to kill himself and take as many people with him”
The DC sniper was black and I believe the Virginia Tech shooter was asian.
Because there are still forces out there that tell a man that his problems are his own and nobody cares what they are, leaving the ones who need lots of help to possibly conclude “no one cares about my life therefore i care little about theirs.” Or that they shouldn’t burden others with their problems because men are disposable. The inherent societal support for women, which sometimes gets on women’s nerves (“this is how you do this” type of stuff), is not extended to all people, leaving some men to self medicate or brood in dark places. In the end… Read more »
So many lives! Yes, we should examine this case and previous cases (such as the ones you mentioned)…. What are the factors? The causes? (1) Genetics? Is there something in their genes? Violent or psychotic or homicidal tendencies passed along in their DNA? Is something lurking in their family DNA? Do we all have violent tendencies that have perhaps served previous generations well during war or colonial times, but have now become too much to handle in our now genteel lives? (2) Hormones? Biology or physiology? Louise Brizendine’s book, “The Female Brain”, makes a lot of interesting observations between the… Read more »
Oh dear… (1)Genetics? No, if it was genetics this would have manifested more in previous generations. Evolution isn’t that fast. (2)Hormones? See above, not to mention that arguments that gender is fundamentally biological doesn’t exactly allow for the possibility of women’s lib. After all, didn’t you know that women are genetically/hormonally unsuited to men’s roles such as intellectual discussion and decision-making etc. (3)Environment?Yep. This is the only possible reason that this kind of occurance could spring up over the course of a generation. This doesn’t excuse painting church as some kind of psycopath factory though. (4)Mental Illness? Doesn’t explain why… Read more »
Peter, I’m sorry, but mental illness absolutely CAN explain why men mostly do the shooting: depending on the study men are somewhere between three and ten times more likely than women to develop mental illness in the first place. This is most likely the best explanation as school shootings are hardly anything new (see Noah’s comment with links up thread, school shootings date to the 1960s, some possibly older). Because we see this behavior in kids today, as well as kids from previous generations, it is actually difficult to blame the environment: it has changed so much yet the behavior… Read more »
“it is actually difficult to blame the environment: it has changed so much yet the behavior remains.”
Its to general, we need some specifics. What do thise people have in common? what connects them? what happen in their life? is there some similarity? point of convergence? were they raped? bullied or what? threaten as outcasts maybe, if yes why? what was the episode in their life that made them go kaboom? can we identify this, then we already have half of the solution.
@john hall: Ok, but I would still expect between 1 in 4 and 1 in 11 shooters to be female in that case. I’m not excluding mental health as a factor (someone who kills that many innocent people is, defacto, mentally unwell) what I’m saying is that it doesn’t fully explaing why this seems to be a man only thing.
@Ken: All very good questions.
Peter, First there have been female shooters, Brenda Spencer and Laurie Dann both come to mind. This means that if ratios of mental illness really are something like 1:10, then mental illness could potentially explain the entire phenomenon. Second, on virtually all standardized measurements, men show greater variance than women, and this has always been the case. Men are more likely to be successful, but also more likely to be imprisoned. More likely to be the top student, but also more likely to fail out, etc. There is no reason to think this is not just te tail-end of the… Read more »
“More likely to be the top student, but also more likely to fail out, etc” This may have been the case, but I would argue it is not anymore. The education system has been tweaked to raise girls scores up and bring boys scores down, resulting in girls doing as well as boys … at the top. But those boys who were at the bottom are even further bellow, and the boys who were in the middle are now at the bottom, with virtually all the girls above them and only a small handful of other boys even able to… Read more »
Mark,
I’m not saying that the education system is fair, but the fact remains that the variance for boys is still greater than the variance for girls. This is true across cultures and countries:
“Higher variability among boys is a salient feature of
reading and maths test performance across the world.
This difference in variance is higher in countries that have
higher levels of test score performance.”
From: http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/cp288.pdf
The *mean* girl’s score has shifted, but this is about variance.
I’m fully aware of the variance, and if you do not understand how the mean shifting in favour of girls relates with that variance, then you allow the harm this all causes to boys. I’m not aware of the precise numbers, so I’ll use some chosen at random to demonstrate my point.. Lets say boys variance tends to fall between 35-115 (for a variance of 80 points) with the average at 75. Lets say girls tend to fall between 55-95 (for a variance of 40 points), again, with an average of 75. Girls have a much smaller variance, but still… Read more »
” it is actually difficult to blame the environment: it has changed so much yet the behavior remains.”
Has it really? for men at least? Because the while we have more technology and gadgets, and women’s roles have changed considerably, men still seem to be restricted as much or more by their environment as they ever were.
@ Lela “(2) Hormones? Biology or physiology?” When I was younger, I was on the juice. I know a bunch of other guys who used different “dietary supplements”. There were days that I was just pissed off. Not at anything or anyone in particular, but just wanted to fight. A friend of mine told me that when he was on the stuff, he always wanted to either fight or f*ck. I didn’t feel the cold. I’d go out in the dead of winter with a jacket on and didn’t feel a thing. I could also absorb being hit better and… Read more »