Damon Young insists that before you criticize Jamie Rohrs, realize that unless you’ve been in a life-or-death situation, you don’t have a f*cking clue what you would do if you were him.
Originally appeared at Very Smart Brothas
With the exception of both “Kill Bill” movies, “The Dark Knight,” and that time my parents rented “Ghostbusters” and I got so excited that I broke out in hives (Apparently, randomly strange six year olds do turn out to be randomly strange adults), I can’t think of another movie I’ve anticipated more than Quentin Tarantino’s upcoming “Django Unchained.”
I mentioned this fact to a friend (“John”) a week or so ago, and after a passive-aggressively condescending debate about whether Tarantino is overrated, the subject shifted to slavery.
“Man, I would have escaped, or they would have had to kill me,” he stated. “I barely tolerate taking orders from the executive VP at work. How the hell would I be another man’s slave?”
“You just bought a juicer,” I jokingly reminded him. “No way your post-racial ass would have navigated the Underground Railroad.”
The conversation shifted again soon after that, but the quickness and sheer certainty of John’s reply when stating that he’d never allow anyone to enslave him stayed with me. It reminded me of the time I used Maus in an 12th grade English class I taught, and how many of the students remarked that they either would have escaped the concentration camps or died trying. It also harkened back to the time shortly after 9/11 when people started to question how planes full of dozens of people allowed a couple guys with beards and box cutters to hijack, kidnap, and eventually murder everyone on board.
And, whenever I hear people making those types of statements, the same thought goes through my head:
“You have no fucking idea what you would have done”
Not wanting to start an argument about something that can never actually be proven, I usually keep that thought to myself. But, the fact remains that unless you’ve actually been in a life or death situation before, you really have no idea how you’d react. You think you know and you want to believe your fight instinct would override your flight, but unless they’ve felt actual pressure, none of us know exactly how strong our pipes actually are.
So, while the rest of the country has gone in on Jamie Rohrs, the guy who left his girlfriend, her four year old daughter, and their infant son behind while he escaped the shooting at the “Dark Knight Rises” premiere in Aurora, Colorado, I’m (somewhat) sympathetic towards him.
Don’t get me wrong. I do believe that we have every right to criticize his actions. Leaving your girl, your girl’s kid, and your own freakin infant to somehow protect themselves from a crazed gunman is about as bitch-ass as a person can get.
But, I wonder how many of us would have responded in the same way, and my sympathy comes from the fact that he has to live the rest of his life knowing that when life gave him a lemon, he truly did say “Fuck the lemons” and bailed.
Obviously — as the men who died in that theater while shielding loved ones proves — there are many of us who’d do the noble thing, the heroic thing if placed in that situation. I believe that I would have too. I believe that I’d sacrifice my own life to save a loved one. I believe that I would have attempted to stop the 9/11 hijackers, that I would have somehow thwarted slavery, and that if I were in Joe Paterno’s shoes in 1998, I wouldn’t have hesitated in alerting the police to my pedophile colleague and close friend.
But, do I know, with 100% certainty, how I would have reacted if placed in any of those situations? No, and I hope to never find out.
Mixing up a bunch of separate questions. 1. What would I do? 2. What do I hope I would do? 3. What should someone do in that situation? 4. What did I do in a similar situation, if I’ve been in a similar situation? 5. Would the answer to the above predict what I’d do next time? 6. If I fail, what do I think of myself? 7. If I haven’t been in that situation, do I have the right to suggest the proper thing?\ 7a. If only those who’ve been in that situation have the right to suggest the… Read more »
You’re right, I don’t know how I would react if I was in that situation, but you know what? That doesn’t matter.
What we DO know, is how this cowardly little turd reacted, and it was the most cowardly possible course of action he could have possibly taken, short of using his family as human shields.
He deserves every bit of criticism he gets, and then some.
If I was in such a situation, and reacted in a similarly cowardly way, I would expect and accept every bit of the well justified hatred it would garner.
During emergency situations there can be a tendency to hyper-focus as an attempt to deal with something your brain is unable to process using its usual responses. Just speculation on my part, but if his stress response to this was “get the police” then this response was consistent with the circumstances. In this sort of panic mode, literally all the rest of the world leaves your mind as you focus on the “task” as a coping mechanism for a situation that your brain can’t comprehend. I prefer to not assign right or wrong to these sorts of events. Obviously protecting… Read more »
I hope he can forgive himself if he believes he did wrong. That’s a big rock of regret to carry around otherwise. It could crush him literally. Or possibly he just won the lottery, missing that earthquake of bad-luck that rolled over the lives of all those that did not make it out alive. I really hope that he and his wife, and two little dumplings do well.
I SO agree with the above comments about women not being expected to (and thus shamed if they don’t) rescue other adults (“their” men… anyone else other than their own children, etc….). AND: as a trauma therapist, I can say that we’d LIKE to have control over how our nervous system reacts in a situation like this, but in the moment, we simply DON’T. Some people’s wiring creates more of a “fight” response, some have more of a “freeze” response, and some’s default is the “flight” version… the only variables that can often have influence is whether the person has… Read more »
I feel the same as the author of this article. And to sadly add some insight into the “What if” argument, here is a comment on another site about the men that shielded others: ” (As for the men who dived in front of others to “save” them? Oh please. Men are nothing but cowards and bullies. They weren’t diving to save others. They were diving to save themselves. What else is new with men? Now stop trying to pretend cowards are heroes.) The contempt and venom is this comment is shocking. From this men are damn if we do,… Read more »
Wait, who’s to say the mother didn’t stay (not run) in order to protect her kids? Doesn’t that make her a hero?
Yes, that would be heroic. Now flip it. If he’d not run, and was credited with staying to protect his kids while she ran out the door as fast as she could, would that make her a coward? How about any of the other women who ran, or didn’t try to use themselves as human shields. Were they cowards? Should they be ashamed?
A woman who didn’t protect her kids would absolutely be considered a coward by society. Think about it. When a mother is pictured out drinking or doing too many things for herself, people rush to shame her for being a terrible mother. Running out and leaving your kids (especially ones so young) to die would be considered a despicable action by a mother by most people.
I wouldn’t blame this man for panicking; wouldn’t blame him for freezing; wouldn’t blame him for hiding his baby believing that’s giving the child the best chances of surviving; I sure as hell don’t expect him to “throw donw his life” because he is a man and don’t even necessarily expect him to do so because he is a father, and I’m not assuming I know that I’d be a hero in this situation. However, it seems that not did he simply panick and leave his family, he set his baby down, took off out of the theater… and then… Read more »
As far as I know he went outside, drove away to call the police. Maybe in his mind it was more important to get police there ASAP, even more important than protecting your own kids (greater good n all that). I heard he also had to climb down a balcony, which is extremely dangerous for a small child to be in his arms whilst doing. Getting police to the scene is the number 1 priority when you have a mad gunmen with lots n ammo n body protection, no one in the audience really has a chance against that unless… Read more »
Why would he need to drive off in order to contact police? It’s dangerous to climb down with a baby? You do realize they’re already in a threater being shot up, correct? You’re offering a tortured narrative that explains away everything negative as part of “great good’ that just doesn’t add up.
Because a 5.56mm assault rifle will probably penetrate to where he was, and a stray bullet can go quite a way. Given the same situation for me, I’d try to keep the baby n family with me but I would be thinking the priority is to get the police contacted considering the guy is armed heavily and has body armor, I’d be dialing n running/driving/getting at least 1000yards away before I felt safe. Depending on what the balcony was, if there are no ladders then you can take the risk n jump off with baby in your arms, try climb… Read more »
“Because a 5.56mm assault rifle will probably penetrate to where he was, and a stray bullet can go quite a way” If that is supposed to explain away getting into his truck to drive off and (supposedly) get help then he’d have been too concerned about his baby’s safety than to set the child down in the room where the shooting takes place and run off. “It’s the same system involved where some rape victims say they couldn’t move, they tried to move but they couldn’t.” Except he did move. He moved a lot, he moved far, far away from… Read more »
I’m trying to give reasons why he may have done it, and suggesting those reasons can be outside of his control. Fight, flight, freeze. People don’t always think rationally when in danger. It’s a very easy concept to understand, you’re simply trying to ignore nature to paint this guy as some terrible father when the reality of the situation is that he may have had zero control over his actions and was running on pure adrenaline + basic survival instinct. It’s not a universal instinct to protect your kids with your own life, throwing yourself in harms way etc. Not… Read more »
“I’m trying to give reasons why he may have done it, and suggesting those reasons can be outside of his control. Fight, flight, freeze. People don’t always think rationally when in danger.” So you’re trying to explain it away by constructing a narrative flowing forth from Fight or Flight Response. Are you admitting, then, that his actions had zero to do with concern for his child? Because before, you implied that it was all for the greater good that he got away from the theater in order to get help. So was he thinking of his kid or not? Are… Read more »
As I said, it can be a multitude of reasons. Did he make a good choice? No, but I can understand that he may have made them without truly thinking it through. I don’t know how long it took to get down from the balcony, how long the entire process was. It may have been only a few seconds before he was on the groundfloor n realized. To me, I feel he could have been running purely on instinct, or at least partially and that can make him act in a completely selfish manner. How exactly am I explaining it… Read more »
It seems to me that people lump to distinct things together, 1.This guy didn’t take care of his girlfriend 2.This guy didn’t take care of the (very small) kids If the first behaviour should be criticised is up for debate and might depend on gendered expectations. For example let us rephrase it (in the spirit of gender equality), what if a woman has escaped the theater and left her boyfriend behind? She might have even done him a favour, as then he wouldn’t have to worry about her, but only about himself. The second behaviour on the other hand must… Read more »
I remember when the event was being televised and I remember this guy being interviewed. Face was fogged so he wouldn’t be recognized. He stated that they police wouldn’t allow him to go to the hospital because they were questioning him about his possible involvement because his family was left behind and he had made it out. So from the get go, he was already tagged in a negative light.
I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but… if any feminists think that only men have privilege, here’s a concrete example to the contrary. Men are expected to willingly risk or give their lives to protect pretty much anyone, but especially women and children. When they do, they’re rightly considered heros, but if they don’t, they’re called cowards who should be ashamed of themselves. Women, on the other hand, would probably get called heros for taking a bullet while shielding a boyfriend/husband, but that boyfriend/husband would still be stuck with the coward label, and most likely feel very ashamed.… Read more »
THIS. We have the “mamma bear” archetype where a woman *fights* for her kids, but she’s not actually supposed to die, just rip the threat a new one and hug her kids after. For men, though? To be a hero you are expected to risk your own life, and, more often than not, lose that gamble. Why is no one complaining that the girlfriend didn’t shield *him*?
Thirded! All human life is valuable. A man’s life is not less so than a woman’s, any more than a black’s is less valuable than a white’s, or a gay’s than a heterosexual’s. It’s kind of disgusting that men are expected to be self-sacrificing heroes even today, while women Must Be Protected right along with the *genuinely* helpless children.
I think we are forgetting about this guy: http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/enews/cv/enews-20120726.html Women weren’t the only one’s saved in that theater. Now there’s alot of things we could talk about: A. Why didn’t any women try to save their men? B. How the vast majority of people in the theater weren’t esp. heroic. But I guess I really just wanted to make sure that guy was remembered, as well as to talk about the subject of this thread. I normally wouldn’t come down on a man for NOT being willing to sacrifice his life. Single man/Single woman – I owe her nothing, though… Read more »
You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
You won’t hear about any of the women who booked it out of the theater, but this man gets pilloried for fleeing for his life. It is truly, TRULY shameful. Yeah… running from a hail of bullets as opposed to hanging out and throwing your own life in the trash, what a coward. Maybe I’m crazy but I’ve heard of this crazy concept called self preservation where the subconscious takes over the body to KEEP YOU FROM DYING.
It’s allied save your four month old son. Don’t have kids if you can put them first
When the shit hits the fan, often people go PURE instinct. The first n foremost instinct for most animals is fight or flight, and considering the dude was packing heavy firepower the only real option was to flee. Problem is he forgot his family but I can’t blame him for that, the terror involved can easily override all of your rational thought, you act before you think basically and so he saved himself. I bet he felt like crap after but can you blame him really? It’s scary as hell and that can cloud your judgment. Would it be better… Read more »
I agree there’s not much anyone in that theater could do against a psycho w/ an arsenal and body full body armor. Yet it doesn’t change the fact that when his moment came for fight or flight, his first instinct was to flee. The man is a coward.
I’m fine with that conclusion… as long as we similarly condemn every single WOMAN in that theater who ran instead of trying to shield her husband or boyfriend.
But somehow, there don’t seem to be any news stories about them, are there?
Except there were women being courageous like this girl who tried to protect her 4 month old & 4 year old. I haven’t heard of any women protecting men at the theater but that might have to do with how deeply ingrained the concept of men are the protectors whether people like it or not. Regardless though, the girl and the kid who ended up helping her and her kids were the heroes. The boyfriend who decided to ditch his girl and the two kids and hop into his car waiting for everything to die down before going back is… Read more »
He left his child big difference. And his women shielded there kids.
what is your PROBLEM with women? The woman he left, not only was WOUNDED, but never abandoned her 4 year old and managed to locate the INFANT the MAN discarded while fleeing for his own singular life. Never mind he DROVE OFF, and never even bothered to stop and check if they LIVED. You look like a fool, defending a gender, who acted foolishly.
So what are we criticizing him for? Shielding someone is just like jumping on a hand grenade. It’s the last thing you do before you are dead. This guy was in the balcony with three other dependents. First of all who is he going to shield? All three of them at once? Or maybe since he’s at a distance he might try to get them out of there in the crowd? And how many shooters are there coming from what direction? This is a guy with little or no tactical training, no intel on the threat, and three other people… Read more »
Yep, we have no idea of knowing if he truly even failed to protect his family or if he simply had no way to protect his family. And yes I agree American society, at least American society, seems to have a problem with feeling certain about opinions that don’t have foundations in fact.
I think the point here is that he didn’t even try. He didn’t pick one person to shield, pick up and run with, or anything else. I don’t think anybody would have criticized him for taking care of one child over the other. It’s the fact that he ran, which doesn’t show any thought of those he left behind. He left his woman as encumbered as she could possibly be with a very dependent child and a helpless baby, in harm’s way. Then he goes on tv and makes it all about himself and his fear. Disgusting.
Celeste: So let me get this straight… You’re mad at him for panicking and running. Even though he’s a victim in this and was facing down a masked, armed lunatic in the most unlikely of places. And I agree leaving his kids seems pretty shitty. But as Damon said, you don’t know what that’s like til you’ve been in it. I’d like to think I would’ve reacted differently and I truly believe that to be the case, but none of us know for sure. But then you criticize him after the fact for going on TV where he “makes it… Read more »
He had his son in his hand. Dropped him and ran for his life. I’m sorry when you have children you live for them and do anything to protect them. You don’t drop your four month old and run. If he would have left his girl it would make this situation a little better. But he left his seed to die. No execute. Then he goes on tv and act like he accidentally dropped his son then couldn’t find him etc. be real he left his son to die while some black stranger saved his seed and his women and… Read more »
I have been in a tornado/severe weather situation and, instead of diving for cover I helped to get my grandfather, who suffered from dementia, into shelter before I sought it for myself. When shots broke out at my high school’s homecoming game, the year after I graduated, I threw my then girlfriend down and covered her until the situation was over–thank God or the gods or whatever no one was hurt in that situation. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and do what’s right even if it puts you in personal danger or discomfort. Never know how you’ll… Read more »
This…one of the many things that should be covered in the K-12 range.
I think we may do better to talk about what is the best thing to do in these instances. We did a story not long ago on the Good Feed Blog about this woman who crashed her car at a toll booth and was stuck inside it. No one was helping her and I think the car was on fire… Maybe about to set on fire? People video taped it and stood around, finally this guy whom I think was in the National Guard or the Army just ran up with a fire extinguisher, broke through the glass and another… Read more »
It’s not just about freezing and running away. It’s also about assuming that someone else (who knows more than me) will handle the situation. One morning when I took the train to work the man sitting next to me fidgedet and then he very lowly said “Sorry, I am not feeling well”, he held his glasses in his hand and he then closed his hand and crushed the glasses (I’ll always remember that detail) and subsequently lost consciousness. It was rush hour and the train was packed and had a lot of standing passenger and no open floor space. As… Read more »
That’s a good example of how to get around the “Bystander Effect”, and I’ve seen it included in emergency training classes, teaching to single someone out to summon help, rather than making it a blanket request to an onlooking crowd. I don’t think it has much use in this scenario while the shooting is going on, but it’s still a good piece of info to have in your brain.
Yeah, I was more thinking of the situation Joanna described about the burning car with a crowd standing around doing nothing. As a sidenote which is a digression from this discussion I can tell that a short while after (I still were trying to establish whether he had a pulse and were complentating how I woiuld create enough space on the floor on the train to lay him down for CPR) when the train arrived at the station the man regained some consciousness. He was still very groggy and spoke with a slurred speech. When we told him that an… Read more »
Seems as if we’re moving toward an excuse. “I was never in the military so I shouldn’t be expected to do anything.”
Why not? Our society already has an accepted excuse of “I don’t have a Y chromosome so I shouldn’t be expected to do anything.” And nobody’s challenging that one.
I do.
I stood in front of her and took the blow because she was my daughter and that’s what you do.
That’s all.
I agree. We can go over these “what if” situations in our heads again and again, but no one knows for sure.