Jake DiMare wonders why there seems to be so many ways to rationalize cowardice.
Since I started writing for the Good Man Project I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about what it means to be a good man. Like, what are the qualities of goodness and masculinity which are important? I’ve yet to come out and create any kind of a list but today I am adding the first word: “Brave”.
Brave…As in, having or showing courage. Brave isn’t easy. Brave guys don’t stand by and watch, while a child is assaulted in the street. Brave also doesn’t mean ‘hero’. Brave is just brave and brave is the opposite of coward.
>There’s been a terrible fuss the last few days in the comment section of Mark Radcliffe’s article ‘Providence Girl Beaten While Neighbor Videotapes‘. I’ve been trying, unsuccessfully I might add, to get a fairly entrenched group of individuals in the comment section to understand my perspective. Essentially, my argument is it doesn’t really matter what it is you are afraid of. If the fear prohibits you from coming to the aid of someone who is being held down and assaulted, you are simply afraid.
“No, no, no…” they tell me. “You don’t understand…I wouldn’t interfere with a child being beaten in the street because I might be accused of rape (fear) or assault (fear). I might be physically harmed (fear) or suffer a financial setback (fear).”
Men (and women): Fear is fear. And a synonym for fear is cowardice. If you are afraid, fine. Own it. Most people are. But don’t try to pretend that if it was your kid, your brother, or your mother there on the ground, getting their ass kicked, you wouldn’t want someone to take action and come to their aid. Being afraid is human. It takes strength of character to overcome fear. It takes bravery to come to someone’s aid.
Good Men (and Women) are brave.
Photo courtesy of eatyourchildren
I wonder if the word ‘coward’ would be used in any feminist-friendly publication, if the bystander is a woman and the wild group are 4 boys 12 years old beating up another boy of same age. So why is this word used in a man-friendly publication for a male bystander facing 4 wild girls 12 years old beating up another girl of same age? I smell here truly a double standard. The decision to intervene or not is solely with the bystander. If the bystander decides to intervene, he/she should be aware, that such voluntary action is not without risk.… Read more »
Sorry, but this is bollocks. People have the right to make an asessment as to whether it’s prudent to intervene in a situation without being shamed as cowards. I say people because the OP made it clear that he was being gender neutral, but, to be perfectly honest, we may as well just come out in the open and say it: this is about men. Women are rarely chastised for not having leaped to someone else’s defence. The assumption is that they aren’t able to, or even if they are, that it’s not their duty to. The opposite assumptions are… Read more »
It seems like calling what happened here “fear” is potentially a mischaracterization on the part of Mr. DiMare. (I say potentially only because I have not spoken to the person involved, I doubt any here have, and I usually believe individuals have a right to speak to their own motivations) As humans, we all respond to incentives. We can see this when we notice that a Snicker’s bar that sells for $0.50 won’t sell for $2.00. The additional $1.50 is worth more to the average consumer than the joy of eating a chocolate product. This same basic principal easily applies… Read more »
Actually, I don’t eat Snicker’s bars because of fear…fear of diabetes, obesity and heart disease.
“I don’t eat Snicker’s bars because of fear”
wuss
It’s great when people successfully risk their lives for others. It’s also something that can’t be demanded by the rest of society as a right. It doesn’t fall under life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness anymore than free healthcare does. So there you have it. Time to move along.
Talk is cheap Jake, and even though I may be instinctively and emotionally moved to help someone in trouble – not considering the risk, our society expecting men to continue in selfless acts of chivalry is thoughtless at best, obnoxious and self serving being more likely.
Are we really only talking about men here? I’m talking about people and I assume Jake is.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all if some of the folks here were only talking about men and how we are expected to be protectors simply because we are men.
Well I’m not
I think it’s safe to say that the story of the guy shooting video of girls bullying another girl was what precipitated Jake’s essay. There were plenty of sexist assumptions – lots of objectifying male utility as disposable protector- in the commentary following that article. Of course, Jake’s own words ought to settle the question “who are we talking about here?” “Since I started writing for the Good Man Project I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about what it means to be a good man. Like, what are the qualities of goodness and masculinity which are important? I’ve yet… Read more »
His article was gender neutral, but he’s discussing a social phenomenon that targets men so, yes, men’s gender rights is relevant to the discussion.
If someone had posted an article about how people should try more when it came to working out, would it be completely irrelevant to bring up the pressure many women come under to look like a size 0 model.
I’m sure I’m paraphrasing someone famous, but bravery is not the absence of fear but being able to do what’s right despite your fear. If you don’t feel fear, then you’re not *brave*, exactly, you’re just fearless, which is not nearly as heroic. By the same token, being shamed into doing something because you don’t want to look or feel like a coward is not the same thing as bravery, either. The article and comments seem to be setting up a conflict between being smart and being brave. This is where a lot of the gendering of men and masculinity… Read more »
Okay. Now that I read the CNN story a little more closely, I notice some very important details. First, the fight was in his neighbor’s garden, not out on the street. It was on private property. (Personally, I think this makes the filming even more voyeuristic and even less justified, if that were possible.) Immediately physically intervening would have meant going next door into the neighbor’s garden. This actually makes me wonder why he didn’t at least go next door and knock on the front door. Maybe the parents were home but didn’t know the fight was going on, so… Read more »
You know what? Unless somebody has been in an actual emergency situation, they have no right to talk about what they “would” do, because they haven’t a clue what would actually happen. And to be perfectly frank about it? They’re probably wrong. The bystander effect isn’t a myth after all.
Call me a cynic if you want, but I’ve seen the aftermath of the situations most of you only read about in the papers. Most people aren’t John Wayne, and even fewer should try to be.
As little regard as I have for what somebody who lurks websites and spews rhetoric under the handle ‘8ball’ thinks…I’ve been in emergencies and fights so I’m going to go ahead and claim my right to talk about it.
Huh. Back when the internet first started taking off, the rule was “never use you name on the internet.” Apparently nowadays it’s “I’m not going to listen to a word you say until I get your social security number.”
Whatever. That’s your choice Sparky. i hope all your heroic posturing works out for you.
Signed
An anonymous “coward”
Bravery is not the absence of fear. Bravery is choosing to do what you believe is right in spite of fear. With that definition lets return to the scene I have seen bandied about: An unknown assailant is attacking a person who, for whatever reason, is not able to adequately defend themselves and you are a bystander. At this point you have to make several choices with the first choice being between bravery and cowardice; you can choose to walk away (cowardice), call 911 and keep an eye on things until help arrives (bravery), remain a silent and “neutral” observer… Read more »
Very well put
” I would try to distract the attacker so as to give the victim time to either escape or for help to arrive. The risk to myself with those actions is minimal, sure the attacker could turn on me instead but that is unlikely and police are already on their way” Uh no. This is actually the stupidest thing you can do. By all means call 911, but unless you have some actual training in diffusing a hostile situation, or are legally responsible for doing so (security personell, or teachers in the case of a student fight) STAY THE HELL… Read more »
I have training in both mediation and self defense, my choices in life and my choices in metaphorical situations represent my knowledge of myself and my skills. One of my skills is knowing the difference between fiction and reality, meaning I know that “real life isn’t a frigging movie” and so I do not base my choices or statements off of that illusion.
There’s no such thing as a coward. Self-preservation is human nature’s first rule for survival. We need to stop shaming men (that is not politically correct) …this is the 21st century and men and women don’t live in la la land anymore. There are no fairy tales in this reality. The only knights in shining armor…we got those…call 911 for them. It’s not everyone’s job to rescue people from doom and gloom…or from harm. What if I get killed, get harmed or get sued??? Now, who’s going to come to my assistance? The victim? Get real! In this day and… Read more »
Michelle, I’m not sure of your point, but I am sure you are being provocative for the sole purpose of stirring the pot. Consider this a moderation warning.
I don’t understand. I am supporting men here. I don’t think the men on here have a problem with my post? I am trying to put myself into the shoes…and I can see where they are coming from…why is there a problem with me agreeing with their stance???
We are aware of your IP address, though your email address bounces back and know that you are the same person as Michelle G. I’ve sent you an email and if you’d like to provide me with an address that works, I’d be happy to discuss the matter.
My god I’m agreeing with Michelle G.
Greed has been considered a virtue in America for a while now, so it shouldn’t surprise us that cowardice is starting to be considered one.
So true…
SO true!
Please define the word “good”? Bwahahahaha
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/good
Risking my life for strangers is not brave, unless it’s my paid job to do so. It’s stupid.
And it buys into the sick notion that men’s lives are less valuable than women’s and children’s. We’re done with that sucker’s game, thank you. Men have RESIGNED from the self-sacrificing defender role.
Want to help a stranger? Goody for you. Expect a man to intervene every time something violent goes down, regardless of the risk to himself? Hello, entitlement.
We aren’t talking gender here, or at least I’m not. The woman in the case listed in my comment was helping a MAN in the car. She was a woman. There were also female EMTs and other people who stopped, and while I don’t know the gender of everyone who asked, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t all men.
We aren’t talking about men stepping in to help women and children, we are (I am) talking about people helping people. I don’t expect it to be a man. I expect it to be a human being. And I’d do the same.
And good on them, but the trouble is that all this happens against a background of men labouring under the sexist assumption that their place is to put themselves in danger for other people.
“And it buys into the sick notion that men’s lives are less valuable than women’s and children’s. We’re done with that sucker’s game…”
I’ve made no situation specific claims…the assailant(s) or victim(s) could be men, women, or transgender and the definition of courage or coward doesn’t change.
Yes, but women and transpeople aren’t constructed by society as sacraficial goats (in terms of physical bodily harm anyway). While I agree people should try to help each other (in accordance with their ability to do so including respect for personal safety) shaming tactics about supposed cowardice heavily play into anti-male sexist presumptions.
Two problems: 1) “Good Men (and Women) are brave.” You don’t have to be brave, to be good. I do not condemn a man or a woman if his or her courage does not measure up on any given day. Exalt those who step forward, but do not condemn those step back. 2) “I wouldn’t interfere with a child being beaten in the street because I might be accused of rape (fear) or assault (fear).” There is an unsaid “half of the truth” for many of the (mostly men) who claim they might hesitate to intervene against a female assailant… Read more »
It seems to me that’s like saying paying taxes can be a form of tax protest, or enlistment can be a form of war protest.. If you don’t intervene in a case of female violence, aren’t you just as complicit as the government?
So Soulite, you’d be absolutely fine then, if you had a child or friend or relative being beaten senseless, or hit by a car or some such, and the passers by were all, “I might get myself killed or sent to prison..that would be stupid.” and walked on by instead of making a difference in some way? I’ll share a story. A long while ago, my son (at the time about 4) was in a car accident while driving with a friend’s family. It was a very very bad accident and in fact the car that was hit (which held… Read more »
Your story (the entire, “would you help?” question that’s been going on the last few days here) reminds of something that happened to me during my second year of college. I was catching a ride home with a high school class mate from the same area (he was one year ahead of me) but before leaving town we went by his aunt’s house. She’s got a husband and two young boys. While we are there he husband has a heart attack. His aunt went into a serious panic (which is totally understandeble when her husband is laying there dying). The… Read more »
Danny, I think you did the absolute best thing you could’ve done. You spared those kids serious trauma.
I’m certain you would almost always do what is right.
Freezing up because you’re afraid is a totally different reaction from, “You know what? Our system is fucked, so I’m just going to watch this child get beaten.”
Freezing up because you’re afraid is a totally different reaction from, “You know what? Our system is fucked, so I’m just going to watch this child get beaten.” Joanna I think what’s getting people riled up here is that it sounds like they are being told that regardless of why they froze up from fear they are a terrible person for not doing something. It’s like people are saying, “I want to act but what if (insert fear)?” is being treated the same as your, “You know what? Our system is fucked, so I’m just going to watch this child… Read more »
“Joanna I think what’s getting people riled up here is that it sounds like they are being told that regardless of why they froze up from fear they are a terrible person for not doing something.” Thoughtfully put. Thanks for pointing this out. As I said in the original blog entry: “If you are afraid, fine. Own it. Most people are. But don’t try to pretend that if it was your kid, your brother, or your mother there on the ground, getting their ass kicked, you wouldn’t want someone to take action and come to their aid. Being afraid is… Read more »
“If you are afraid, fine. Own it. Most people are. But don’t try to pretend that if it was your kid, your brother, or your mother there on the ground, getting their ass kicked, you wouldn’t want someone to take action and come to their aid. Being afraid is human. It takes strength of character to overcome fear. It takes bravery to come to someone’s aid.” And even that comes off sounding like you’re saying that such people are limited by their fear but would automatically disregard someone else’s fear if it was their loved one in danger. I’ll use… Read more »
You’re idea of ‘bravery’ is a child’s idea of bravery; the kind of thing most people get over as they grow up.
Bravery is standing up when it can make a difference, it is not standing up when you’ll only get yourself killed or sent to prison. That is just plain, old-fashioned stupidity.
So I just want to be sure I understand you correctly, because you mixed terms there. On the one hand you reference bravery is standing up when you can make a difference, which I would say we agree on.
On the other hand you it sounds like you would only stand up when there is no personal risk.
In other words, your concept of braver is:
“I’m willing to help someone, as long as there is no risk to me in doing so”
That about right?
Yes actually. I used to work as an EMT and rule #1 was ensure that the area was safe before doing ANYTHING else. You know what happens when people stupidly rush into a situation trying to be some kind of comic book hero? You get two victims instead of one.
8Ball, you’re confusing tactics with courage. Once someone has made the courageous decision to help, I completely agree with taking care not to get hurt if it can be avoided.
in other words “I’m willing to help someone as long as there is no risk to me in doing so.”
I’m really haveing an hard time distinguishing between “tactics” and your definition of cowardice.
After initially observing this situation the bystander makes an initial decision on how to respond, which has some motivating factor. Some might make the decision to observe passively because they like to watch children kick each other’s ass. (Sadism) Some might make the decision to observe passively because they fear repercussions (Cowardice) Others might act in some way to intervene in order to protect the victim. (Courage) Others might intervene to purely to protect their own property. (Selfish) Ironically, with the obsessive way some guys on this board have reacted to this story, I will now add a fourth option,… Read more »
“Yes actually. I used to work as an EMT and rule #1 was ensure that the area was safe before doing ANYTHING else. You know what happens when people stupidly rush into a situation trying to be some kind of comic book hero? You get two victims instead of one.” “8Ball, you’re confusing tactics with courage. Once someone has made the courageous decision to help, I completely agree with taking care not to get hurt if it can be avoided.” “Some might make the decision to observe passively because they fear repercussions (Cowardice)” So if a paramed decides its unsafe… Read more »
That’s the problem with the media though. What will make the most headlines, hits, pageviews. It isn’t even journalism. I think no matter the gender of the video taper, they’d have come up with something negative… Lonely neighbor woman gets kicks watching girlfight (Ms. sonso never had children…is this the case?) Also, the civilian could have helped by calling 911 and not getting involved physically. We don’t know that he did in the past or not because why? Piss poor excuses for journalism and instead attention getting headlines. Everyone does it. Every online mag around. I think it’s a sure… Read more »