Jamie Reidy comments on the outcry resulting from the Vanderbilt football coach’s recent insult to unattractive women everywhere.
USA Today’s Jeff Lockridge reports that James Franklin’s mouth has created a firestorm:
James Franklin‘s comments regarding the need for his assistants to have attractive wives went viral Thursday, prompting an outcry from some fans and a Twitter apology from Vanderbilt’s second-year football coach. The remarks also garnered the attention of Vanderbilt Vice Chancellor of Athletics David Williams, who addressed his coach on Thursday about how “inappropriate” the message was.
Here’s the thing lost in the uproar: Coach Franklin’s comments reflect the fundamental truth that people are impressed when a man has a wife or girlfriend above his level.
I can think of no better compliment than, “Dude, what is she doing with you?” (The same may hold true for women who have a more attractive husband or boyfriend, but nobody would ever dare say “What’s he doing with you?” to a woman.)
Of course, then there’s my friend Pete, who does not appreciate such commentary regarding his considerably more attractive and much nicer wife, Kim. “What, I can’t land someone like that?! I don’t deserve someone like that?!” Three of us paused for a second, before responding in unison, “No.”
In the recent Brad Pitt movie MONEYBALL, a scout mentions that a possible draftee has an ugly girlfriend. One grizzled vet responds, “That means he has bad eyesight.” Everyone in the room nods in agreement, as the player’s name is crossed off the list.
But that’s not what Michael Lewis wrote in his book of the same name. In real life, the veteran scout responded, “Means he lacks confidence.” And the player’s name was crossed off the list of potential draftees.
And that’s what Coach Franklin said during the controversial radio interview:
“There’s a very strong correlation between having the confidence, going up and talking to a woman, and being quick on your feet and having some personality and confidence and being fun and articulate, than it is walking into a high school and recruiting a kid and selling him.”
I agree with that assessment, whether a guy is selling a college football program, pharmaceuticals or ad space. A guy who “married up” can flat out sell.
Do you think Coach James Franklin should be disciplined for his remarks?
Photo by: oddsock
About Jamie Reidy
And if your assistant coach has an attractive boyfriend? What’s the rule there?
Good job interview tip here. If you’re a man in the get-to-know-you part of the job interview process, be sure to bring a photo of a very attractive woman and tell the head coach she’s your wife. You can then conveniently go through a “messy divorce” once you’re hired and the head coach wants to have you over for dinner. I can’t be the only one thinking like this. This has sitcom script written all over it.
P.S. Besides, I would think the most impressive indicator of a no-substitute-for-victory, I-get-what-I-want-no-matter-what mindset would be a wealthy wife and a beautiful girlfriend…..
“The same may hold true for women who have a more attractive husband or boyfriend, but nobody would ever dare say “What’s he doing with you?” to a woman.)”
Really ? Of course it holds true for woman also.
With Men it’s great to be with an attractive female, with Woman it’s great to be with an attractive/high status male.
The problem comes when people want to believe a man is dating an attractive woman simply to gain the acceptance of his friends.
I’ve struggled with self esteem issues most of my life, and never having been much of a “hottie,” one of my greatest fears is that guys were “settling” for me because they were desperate and didn’t think they could get someone hotter. Unfortunately, sometimes that was true. I dated a guy in college for awhile who didn’t want me to meet his friends because he didn’t think I was attractive enough to impress them. Another boyfriend described me (as I found out later) by saying “she’s just attractive enough that she won’t embarass me”. Which I guess was an improvement? On the other side, many of my geeky guy friends developed hopeless crushes on me because I was the ONLY woman in their lives who had ever been friendly to them. I never wanted to date any of those guys because I felt they were simply desperate and it really didn’t matter if I’d had three eyes and snuggle teeth, I was a woman who was willing to talk to them, so that was good enough.
Let me be clear, I don’t think I’m hideous looking. Like most women, I’ve endured catcalls and had men hit on me. But I’m pretty average looking, basically. And many men haven’t been afraid to tell me that.
So basically then I went through a period of several years in my 30′s when I stopped dating entirely. I decided it was better to remain single than to always been seen as the woman who is “just attractive enough not to embarass me.” Who wants that?
As I’ve gotten older, it hasn’t really gotten better, but I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I will probably never be the “why is she with you?” kind of woman.
So these kinds of articles really depress me. What’s an average or below average or God forbid “ugly” person supposed to do (male or female)?
The geeky men might have gone more than the “she talks to me and is friendly”, but if you met them at all, you probably had some common interests. I dunno, but it sure helps me. Common interests being good about helping couples bond and have less conflict than others.
Want me to name couples that have troubles because either of them is a “social butterfly”, while the other prefers to stay home most of the time? Better to have people who actually agree on the meat, and who don’t think “You’re sooo immature playing videogames…come watch Dancing with the Stars with me!”
“So these kinds of articles really depress me. What’s an average or below average or God forbid “ugly” person supposed to do (male or female)?”
There are two reason to date someone 1) because of how you feel when your with them 2) because of what other people will think of you dating them. A lot of guys feel great with women who are average looking or even less than average.
Hot girlfriend does not equal happiness. A guy dating a not so hot girlfriend is also not necessarily lacking in confidence or settling. He may just be happy being with her. I know a lot of guys who only want hot women. They are some of the most unhappy, insecure people I know.
As Feynman’s wife said: Why do you care what other people think?
“On the other side, many of my geeky guy friends developed hopeless crushes on me because I was the ONLY woman in their lives who had ever been friendly to them. I never wanted to date any of those guys because I felt they were simply desperate and it really didn’t matter if I’d had three eyes and snuggle teeth, I was a woman who was willing to talk to them, so that was good enough.”
Can you prove that though? Were you 100% sure? Because there is the possibility that you judged them wrongly and missed out on guys that truly liked you for you, and not because they were desperate. Even lonely geeks fall in love and can genuinely like a woman even if they rarely ever get attention from women. It’s pretty insulting to them that you judged them like that, why not take a shot with one and see if love blossomed?
“What’s an average or below average or God forbid “ugly” person supposed to do (male or female)?”
Depends, if you’re with people that see you as desperate then you might get cast aside like you did with the geeks. What are you to do? I dunno, Give it a chance with the geeky guys would be a start? If it didn’t work then so be it. We don’t usually become someone’s everything overnight, the women I have most cared about took time and had to earn their place in my heart.
Becareful with your insecurity, it could be killing off potential relationships. By what you said about the geeky guys I have a feeling you felt like you weren’t anything special and that these guys would be interested in anything, including you, when really you might have some amazing traits that they saw and were falling for.
I should have clarified that when I look back on it, I probably should have given my geeky guy friends a chance. At the time (early 20′s) I felt like they were so desperate that they had no standards. I knew they wanted the “hot” girls as much as the next guy, but couldn’t get one. So they were willing to settle for me because I was available. Being the one someone is settling for is an awful feeling.
As I’ve gotten older, I only date certain kinds of men, i.e. those who care deeply about a woman’s character. Though of course ALL men want to be with attractive women, some also care about other qualities. I would probably have little in common with a football coach so no big loss there.
It would still be nice to be considered beautiful but will probably not happen, oh well.
Attraction varies though. I personally favor thin to medium women, small to medium breasts, long hair, and there are certain faces that I absolutely love (just talking physical attributes here. Now the women I’ve found attractive, other guys have not so I think it’s pretty random really, there is no universal attraction but that can be popular attractions. Now whilst I may favour women like that, it doesn’t mean I’m not attracted to women who don’t fit that mold but simply for some reason and I have no idea why but that’s just what I find the most attractive. There are women my friends like that I don’t like, and I’ve seen the same variance amongst women with who they like as well, guess we just have to find the person who is attracted to US.
The geeky guys may have wanted hot girls, but it doesn’t mean they wouldn’t value other women, doesn’t mean other women are simply settled upon. What people SAY they want, and what people go for can be 2 very different things, the whole “nice guy/girl” and bad boy/girl” dynamic is riddled with experiences where someone has wanted X and then dated Y.
Those guys that liked you, chances are they found you beautiful. I’ve been extremely attracted to someone before who’s told me over n over that she was ugly, nothing I could do or say could change her mind. If I could I’d let her see herself with my eyes and my heart, she’d notice how her body turns me on both sexually and in other ways, how I find it so visually beautiful, etc. She has a low self-esteem and nothing I could say on her physical or personality could change her mind. Whilst I’m only talking bout physical looks I also value personality a lot, it’s what makes someone a whole new level of beautiful n special, great companionship, nice nature, stands up for themselves, cares about more than just herself, intelligence, and other qualities are what I really love. But there is attraction I can’t even explain, I know what I like but that doesn’t mean I’ll only like that, sometimes we can’t explain our attraction, our feelings for someone, it’s just there.
So don’t sell yourself to a life of not being thought of as beautiful, LISTEN to your partners and those that show interest, you will be someones supermodel. Most humans want to be with someone they’re attracted to, but not everyone has the same attraction so “ALL men want to be with attractive women” doesn’t work in the way you think it does, not all men want the person who is seen is very attractive by others unless they find them attractive themselves. No one can define attraction for someone else.
You are right, Archy, and thank you.
I’m in a great relationship now with a guy who often tells me I’m hot. That is very nice to hear. It took me a lot of years (I’m in my 40′s now) but eventually things worked out for me. And the truth is that beauty and status and having lots of relationship options are no guarantee of having successful relationships or a happy life.
Everytime you feel this : “It would still be nice to be considered beautiful but will probably not happen, oh well.”
Read this 20 times : “I’m in a great relationship now with a guy who often tells me I’m hot.”
Think of him telling you that and hold onto those thoughts, everyday think of it, anytime you catch yourself self-criticizing think back to what he said, because his opinion proves you’re beautiful. After a while you will probably notice a more positive view of yourself, just gotta keep those negative thoughts at bay and pay attention to your partner’s desires, they’re probably screaming out how beautiful you are.
When a man takes pleasure in his worth being judged through the physical attractiveness of his partner, that tells me he is unconfident in his masculinity more then a man that has a more plain partner. Because he is looking to assert his worth through the commodity of his partner’s beauty. A man that is truly confident in himself dates who he wants, who he is attracted to whether she fits stereotypical ideals or doesn’t. That’s what a confident man does.
The second component here is on the woman’s side. When you purely judge a man’s worth through the physical appeal of his partner, both the attractive and plain women loose. The attractive women looses because she is seen as a non-person. The plain women looses because she is also being seen as a non-person. Whether you are an attractive woman or a plain woman, it tells me that women in general are considered worthless either way. No one wins. It’s not a compliment for the attractive woman. It’s disparaging to her just as much as it’s disparaging to plain women.
There is a difference between being with someone you are attracted to vs having to be with someone that is seen attractive by everyone else.
“When a man takes pleasure in his worth being judged through the physical attractiveness of his partner, that tells me he is unconfident in his masculinity more then a man that has a more plain partner. ”
So you are judging men for having “less plain partners” but then you write:
” When you purely judge a man’s worth through the physical appeal of his partner, both the attractive and plain women loose.”
I don’t understand what’s going on here.
I don’t understand why you think I am judging men with “less plain partners”. I am talking about men that base their worth on the way their partner looks. Not just men that happen to have beautiful partners.
Okay, I guess, but you literally wrote:
“more then a man that has a more plain partner” and not “more than a man who does not base his worth on how his partner looks”
Those are two very different statements.
Amen! And by the way, when did we all accept that there was one completely universally accepted standard of beauty that was atom bombed into all our loins? This guy’s idea of what’s attractive might be completely different than what some other guy thinks, for whom it was no less intimidating to talk to that woman in the burlap sack at the Renaissance festival. He probably pulled out every move he had, walked up to her in some badass armour and was like “I am Sir Knight! Do you want to get chicken later???” It happens every day. Every normal person is extraordinarily attractive to someone.
I agree. A confident man or woman dates who they want. He or she thinks for themselves. Great post!
Well, when I was an insecure, neurotic, lacking confidence mess I never had a girlfriend. Women were far too terrifying to be approached.
After I read “The Game” and understood a bit better what was happening out there (the book is not all bullshit), and developed some confidence speaking with women, heck, I finally had a girlfriend that I wanted. I had one other girlfriend who I only got engaged to because she threatened to leave me. Now I have my sweetie who is head turning hot and pretty much what “I WANTED.” She is my teenage wet dream and then some.
I understand the point they’re getting across about not having a hot wife and what it says about confidence. It takes some confidence to get shot down time and time again by women who think they could do better, get up and keep on asking them.
Of course, there’s this great new invention called Internet dating which helps a person of my sort with meeting women, but it’s still takes confidence. I used to not even have the confidence to do that. Now, eh, women, they’re only human by my Sweetie is all that and a whole bag of chips! She’s the greatest!
Yay me!
The Wet One
Makes sense. I think from an early age the guys with the most confidence usually get the prettiest girls in school. Of course it does not judge other virtues such as integrity, honesty.
The question is does “confidence and “pretty” equal “better”? There are lots of pretty nice girls. There are lots of pretty mean girls. When men assert a woman’s value and his worth through her looks, everyone looses.
Yes Erin, while we think this is true, it appears that many many men do not. If a person is more interested in status than personal connection, this will hold true. If a person is more interested in personal connection, then the status (money or looks) won’t matter so much.
I personally tend to hang out with people who are far far less interested in status. Then again, we are all poor quirky “non standard” non-profit professionals and artist/academics. I suppose we play our status out in other ways besides looks and money. It’s nice though, seeing people love each other for brains, beauty, humor and charm combined in various combinations.
It also means that shy, sweet, poor dudes get laid a lot. Something I’m assuming doesn’t happen in the Hollywood Corporate Big Business world described above.
Erin,
The only way one gets to know if the pretty girl is a decent girl is by going out with, hanging out with and dating said girl. If you have no confidence, as I did not at one time, you won’t date said pretty girl to ever find out if she’s actually a good person or not.
Consider this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG3ExHB133k
Only an idiot doesn’t know the truth of said song. Just because people seem to be making surface judgments, doesn’t mean that they rely on such surface judgments.
I dumped my share of pretty but mean girls along the way. The Sweetie is truly and honestly a sweetheart.
You’re reading too much into men’s admiration of beautiful people. We’re not that dumb (most of us anyways).
I suspect we all want to be attracted to our partners. But our versions of attractiveness vary.
I’m all for people having the confidence to go out there and get what they want. And I”m sure if they can win/sell the partners they want, perhaps they can win/sell new recruits.
But just because the partner in question isn’t attractive in a standard way, doesn’t mean they don’t find her attractive. Maybe for whatever reason, he had to win/sell the lady because he loved look no matter what it was, or her brain (god forbid).
I mean Heaven’s forfend that player who was crossed off the list actually LIKED his ladylove for a variety of reasons. Just because the coaches didn’t want to prong her doesn’t mean he lacked confidence.
In fact, he might have more confidence because he veered away from peer pressure to date a woman HE liked, not someone people expected him to like.
I think the entire system there is set up to celebrate the standard average attractiveness thing. Ugly but charming coach (with $$) with a Real Housewives of Wherever woman. And because everyone seems to buy into this model, if a coach chooses a woman that he finds attractive but they don’t, they then make up an entire story about how he can’t sell, isn’t confident, etc etc.
Which is really cynical and depressing to me.
If you really like someone and you find them attractive, fuck anyone who tells you you lack confidence for not going with the expected choice. If they don’t find your mate attractive? Who the fuck gives a fuck?
Have confidence in your own choice, for starters.
I laugh though, because of course it’s the women discussing other qualities like what he might be attracted to. Maybe we’ve just been fooling ourselves all this time. It’s not ever about our brains or personalities, ladies, just if we make the man look good to his friends.
Julie,
I think that there’s a good amount of push-back here because there seems to be an attempt to openly shame some men for being honest about their feelings.
Last fall, in the piece “Could I Fall in Love with the Bus Driver?” Emily Heist Moss was very open about questioning whether or not she would be able to date a man who was not “traditionally successful.” (with respect to salary, degree, job title, etc) She wrote this in response to the Kate Bollick piece in the Atlantic where Ms. Bollick states, very honestly, that she is unwilling to consider partners who are not traditionally successful.
While Ms. Bollick’s piece was not really appreciated, Emily Heist Moss was appreciated for her honesty.
Yet when it comes to some subset of men being honest by saying “I really do care about a physically attractive partner” suddenly we get responses like “he is unconfident in his masculinity.”
So we see what men are allowed to be honest about being policed in a way that doesn’t occur when women are honest about what they want in a partner. Even worse, the policing seems to be done through shame and attacks on the person’s masculinity.
No one should have to apologize for being attracted to what they are attracted to. Not Emily Heist Moss, and not a man who is honest about wanting a beautiful girlfriend.
It sounds to me like the players and assistant coaches are being policed by men to get hotter girlfriends then the ones they currently had and liked. They won’t hire men who don’t have hot (traditionally hot, not the kind of hot the men in question may perceive as hot) women. That sounds like policing to me.
I could care less who men are attracted to so long as it’s an honest attraction and not manipulated by other people who want the entire football team to have some kind of rigidly enforced standard.
I’ve dated men that some women thought were really unattractive. I didn’t. I thought they were hot. Some were also poor. I didn’t care. If you have true confidence, you’ll pick the people you actually like and find attractive rather than submitting to your boss.
And, if he is honest about his attraction (the player who didn’t get signed) to a non standard model, he shouldn’t be damned for that either. By men, it appears.
Okay so I completely disagree with almost every word Jamie has written here. Except that I think he’s right that this is how a lot of people think.
My husband had a colleague not long ago who was a good looking guy. Not my type, a little too “pretty” (I can’t find a guy attractive who has a “hairdo” – it’s just my quirk, I like down-to-earth looking guys) and wore a lot of expensive clothes.
So this guy had a girlfriend who was a bikini model. This girl also appeared on a network television show as a character named “The Bimbo”… So you can imagine. After he and she broke up, he only dated girls like her: fake boobs, tan, fancy hair, etc.
Finally he got a crush on a woman who was kind, confident, and smart, and not ugly. But not “trophy-like”. And he wouldn’t be seen with her. No, seriously, he wouldn’t be seen with her.
How fucked is that?
It gave me an insight into guys who need to have a girl who’s “hot”… Not a girl he finds hot, that’s an entirely different thing. But a girl whom Hollywood and his brahs found “hot”—that’s why I have to put “hot” in quotation marks, because authentic hotness is something one person sees in another from a multitude of sources, things one can name and things one cannot name. This guy cared how his girl’s “hotness” reflected upon him —- because he is so incredibly insecure.
As Laura Bailey said, hotness is so subjective, as is attractiveness.
On the other hand, I know at least five guys who are considered very sexy and hot by many women. And they’re successful. And they have wives/long term mates who are considered less objectively “hot”. But they love their mates and these fellas exude confidence.
It shows confidence when a person is proud of loving whom they love—”hot” or not. Relying upon a “hot” girlfriend/wife to make you feel like a worthwhile man shows you’re a weak and insecure person. Vise versa is also true, there are a lot of woman who must have a “hot” guy whom her friends think is hot… It makes them feel validated.
Sure, you can “sell it” but in the long run, is anyone “buying it”? Only people as insecure as you.
(“You” doesn’t mean Jamie, “you” means the guy who feels obligated to have a “hot” girlfriend).
This is exactly what I mean. If you are truly turned on and aroused physically/mentally etc by a person, and someone else is like…dude, she’s not hot, then it isn’t women who are policing you, it’s men who have a particular standard you don’t.
I think it’s are you dating a person to increase your overall status (which frankly can happen with other factors than looks) or are you dating someone who really flips your lid and naysayers be damned.
I dated a guy that used me to impress his friends. When they stopped being impressed, and I was proving myself to be a human being with emotions and flaws and expected maintenance on our relationship, he started losing interest. But he didn’t want anyone else “stealing” his trophy, so he kept stringing me along until I got sick of it and left. He wouldn’t leave me alone after that. I had to send him a strongly worded message that I was not interested in having any contact with him ever again.