Writing in today’s Guardian, Ally Fogg appeals for fair play for male sexual desire:
Male sexuality is no less diverse, complex and wonderful than women’s or, for that matter, no more base, coarse and animalistic…
If we can begin to openly and joyously celebrate the positives to male sexuality, it might become easier for men to be happy and confident sexual partners, and in turn become better lovers, and sometimes better people.
He’s right, of course. But the pathologizing of male desire isn’t the fault of feminism, or of the media. It’s the fault of the dishearteningly high number of men who abuse, harass, and cheat. This bad male behavior is excused by a culture that teaches us that most men (if not all) lack the capacity to control their libidos. Shame is an understandable (if costly) strategy for keeping male sexuality in check.
So let’s openly and joyously celebrate the positives of male sexuality. But we first need to liberate all of us from the “myth of male weakness,” a myth which insists that the average man has little or no self-control over his sexual desires.
Fogg thinks we need to celebrate positive male sexuality in order to make men into better people. Great idea, but it’s a bit back to front. First we need to show a rightly suspicious world that men are capable of being safe. Once men stop blaming women for enticing or inviting infidelity and rape—once we stop believing the myth of uncontrollable male desire—then and only then can we ask to have our sexuality celebrated in all its hot and powerful wonder.
—photo by Newtown Grafitti on Flickr
Any idea that fails to consider the idea that men and women CREATED EACH OTHER is bound to miss the point. Progress will occur when both sexes CEASE to point fingers at each other. In the meantime, I will celebrate my own male sexuality. I don’t need anyone’s permission.
Is cheating a weakness? Does it make you a strong individual to hold your urine indefinitely? At some level affirming men’s sexuality is accepting and recognizing that there is a biological imperative for their sex drive. Had men’s sexuality been recognized and accounted for, I wager there would be less “cheating” throughout history. Perhaps less monogamy too, but certainly less deceit or emotional trauma. Our need for sex is as strong as a woman’s need to bear offspring. The difference is our biological imperative is much less likely to vanish once the expression of our sexuality is fully realized. The… Read more »
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There is a myth of male weakness. From cheating all the way to rape. Cheating is not as bad as rape, but it is bad, and some men, not all, use their biology as an excuse. It’s my libido. It’s my sex drive. Men want sex more than women…etc. I see this article as a call to stop using these excusee and for men to use their brains and will power instead. Why all the defensive positions?
Also in these comments I see a lot of attacks on the writer. Less attacks on the argument. Come on!
Why is Hugo still allowed to post articles here? He doesn’t know the first thing about being a “good man” unless one considers “good” to be synonymous with “self-flagellating.” Praytell Hugo, how do you plan to bring about this glorious rebuilding of trust? Certainly not by oh I dunno, showing men that their sexuality might actually be good, that there’s another way to go about it besides “creepy asshole” method. No, no. That wouldn’t blame men enough for you. Your proposal would instead become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you bombard boys with RAPE! RAPE! RAPE! all the time, they will… Read more »
“But the pathologizing of male desire isn’t the fault of feminism, or of the media. It’s the fault of the dishearteningly high number of men who abuse, harass, and cheat.”
I honestly cannot believe that you put “cheating” on the same level as abuse and harrassment… Please, get your priorities straight!
Every week, Hugo Schwyzer becomes more demented in his misandry. What the hell is he doing on a blog about “good men”?
How is affirming that men are mentally strong, ‘misandry’? The misandry is in the idea that men cannot control ourselves.
But the pathologizing of male desire isn’t the fault of feminism, or of the media. It’s the fault of the dishearteningly high number of men who abuse, harass, and cheat. This bad male behavior is excused by a culture that teaches us that most men (if not all) lack the capacity to control their libidos.(Hugo)
Taken from a Heterosexual perspective, wouldnt this be mathematically impossible, being that there is one women usually involved in cheating. Or do women’s libidos not count?
Retarded as always. I’m sure you think it is wonderful to celebrate gay men’s sexual desire. You’re probably at the front of the gay pride parade. It is just straight men who should be ashamed of their sexuality. Perfect.
Well, Mr Schwyzer is, to the best of my knowledge, a heterosexual man, so one would wonder why he wouldn’t celebrate his own sexuality.
Pasadena City College is a third-tier school. Anything Hugo says should be read with this in mind.
that’s right, attack the man, not the argument.
“… we first need to liberate all of us from the “myth of male weakness,” a myth which insists that the average man has little or no self-control over his sexual desires…. once we stop believing the myth of uncontrollable male desire—then and only then can we ask to have our sexuality celebrated in all its hot and powerful wonder….” The Christian church has got you beat by a couple of millenia. Christianity LONG AGO — and Judaism, even longer — condemned the myth that men “can’t control” themselves. Christianity has ALWAYS required it of men, preached it to men,… Read more »
Hi Hugo Ally Fogg here. Thanks for the response. I’d be less hard on you than some of the comments above, but I don’t think this works: Fogg thinks we need to celebrate positive male sexuality in order to make men into better people. Great idea, but it’s a bit back to front. First we need to show a rightly suspicious world that men are capable of being safe. Once men stop blaming women for enticing or inviting infidelity and rape—once we stop believing the myth of uncontrollable male desire—then and only then can we ask to have our sexuality… Read more »
Ally, Thanks for coming over to chat. As I said, I did love your piece. Part of the problem with the instant response format of this section of the blog is that one tends to post in haste and repent in leisure. I realize I’d misread one aspect of what you were doing — as I saw it, Ally, you were calling for the media to focus on the good aspects of male sexuality rather than on stories of creepy old man. That kind of public affirmation needs to be earned. We’re in absolute agreement that individual men do deserve… Read more »
“then and only then”
Well, that’s depressing.
>Once men stop blaming women for enticing or inviting infidelity and rape—once we stop believing the myth of uncontrollable male desire—then and only then can we ask to have our sexuality celebrated in all its hot and powerful wonder.
Tell ya what, Hugo – you wait until that day comes – as for me, I’ll be over here celebrating my male sexuality.
Anyone want to come over here and join me?
Whenever you get tired of waiting, Hugo, come on over and join the rest of us.
Here are my thoughts on this. The people that visit this magazine site do so because they want to engage in discussion about social issues because they care. They care about what it means for their life and they care about improving themselves and thus the lives of the people they interact with. With that in mind, most of us aren’t going to fit into the negative social stereotypes we all know hold some truth. There is a difference in how we live our lives as “individuals” vs how “society” as a collective whole lives life. Every man should have… Read more »
With that in mind, most of us aren’t going to fit into the negative social stereotypes we all know hold some truth. That is rather narcissistic thinking. The more logical explanation is that people do not fit the negative social stereotypes because the negative social stereotypes are not true. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a very real cultural truth that male sexuality is “uncontrollable”. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a very real cultural truth that “boys will be boys”. That doesn’t mean that media doesn’t push the ideal that men just can’t help themselves. Of course not, just as that… Read more »
And I don’t see why any man should be offended at trying to fix the idea that men, as Hugo said, can’t control themselves. Here goes. Black men are regarded as The Ultimate Sexual Threat (or Pleasure) to society according to the stereotypes (or at least that view depends on which stereotypes they hold on to). There are black men that commit sex crimes. Such crimes fuel the racist hatred that people hold against black men. But there are often people there to fight against that racism. There are men that commit sex crimes. Such crimes fuel the misandrist hatred… Read more »
You know, I agree with this to an extent. But I’m wondering why the two concepts are presented as mutually exclusive. In fact, wouldn’t it follow that providing a healthy alternative to negative sexuality would be more successful than simply pointing out said negative sexuality and saying “stop this”?
I don’t think that celebrating male sexuality involves “patting oneself on the back”. Rather, it (IMO) involves promoting and drawing attention to positive expression of the male sex drive. Such expression already exists, and it is fairly widespread. Let’s present it as the norm, because it is.
The sex-positive movement can and often does celebrate all sexuality (male sexuality included), so I would say we certainly can celebrate male sexuality in all sorts of ways that do not impinge on women’s ability to make safety judgements. The increased acceptability of masturbation is one example of how the sexual revolution has made it easier for men to be sexual, and that’s a good thing. Similarly, we can point out that it’s okay for men (or, indeed, everyone) to like particular kinds of sex (BDSM, for example, or even just liking other types of people besides the slender ideal)… Read more »
Spiffy McBang, commenting at my blog, said something very helpful: “If we push for a greater celebration of general male sexuality- and I believe this is Hugo’s point- the larger that movement grows, the less it becomes about precise messaging (ie. supporting the idea of male sexuality in all its glorious potential) and the more it winds up reinforcing whatever any particular person’s view of male sexuality is as positive. Because so many people- and certainly not just men- perceive male sexuality as about dominance and, to a lesser extent, degradation, this is not yet the time to push that… Read more »
What Fogg wanted was a public media celebration of male sexuality — enough with all the negative press! Yet you did not do that. You chose the far too common feminist “all men are rapists” line, which only perpetuates negative views of male sexuality. A fraction of men commit violence, and most men neither engage in or condone said violence. People cannot help creating negative stereotypes, but we can combat them by presenting the positive aspects of a group. So perhaps you could list some of the positive qualities of male sexuality and not mention anything about sexual violence against… Read more »
And what I’m saying is that we need to change the underlying realities that lead to that negative press before we can stand around and ask for accolades. That was and is my point. I agree that the underlying realities need to change. But you make it sound like men are throwing the victory party before winning the game. One thing to bear in mind is the vast majority of men are not sex criminals. You’re trying to say that those men should stay totally quiet about positive male sexuality until the negative ones are dealt with right are you?… Read more »
i see hugo is getting another bullwhipping lol
dude, even jeni is disagreeing with. have you read her recent posts
LOL
I already have a reputation, huh? Egads!
Seems we live in a sex-negative society in general. Both men and women are harmed by that in a variety of ways. I’d like to see celebrations of sexuality across the board for all genders and orientations.
The biggest problem I have with this article is that it makes the traditional rad-fem mistake of transferring the blame from a male-dominated society to individual men. I did not ask to be cast as a creep, a pig, or a potential rapist. I deserve to feel confident in my sexuality, and I deserve to be able to speak frankly about it without having to “prove” that it is not violent, ugly or evil. I deserve to be treated as innocent unless proven guilty. So damn right, let’s call into question all myths of male weakness, of not being able… Read more »
Human Behavior logic 101: positive reinforcement(s) strengthen and improve social contracts between all living beings.
Fine print: may not apply to dogmatic individuals. Suggest negative reinforcement to alleviate cranial blockage of the “simple logic” circuitry.
…then and only then can we ask to have our sexuality celebrated in all its hot and powerful wonder. Ask? On the real? So after meeting some requirements men will then be able to ask to have our sexuality celebrated? You know as much of a non-feminist as I am even I would not stoop to saying that women need to ask for something to be done for them (and I highly doubt you would do the same). If anything doesn’t that feed right back into the myth of male weakness? That we need permission to have our sexuality celebrated?… Read more »
My mother tells me that Bill Clinton, JFK, Mr. Strauss-Kahn, Mr. Giuliani, Prince Charles, Mr. Woods, Mr. Edwards, and a long list of other men cheat because they don’t have the ability to control their libido. Although she dislikes their behavior, she forgives them: because they can’t control it. I say that’s crap. I have a husband and 3 sons, and you can bet your weiner, they are held fully responsible for their decisions and behavior (and I don’t think they would want it any other way.) I believe Mr. Schwyzer (too bad you can’t use that name in Scrabble)… Read more »
An interesting article–and one that makes a basic mistake that many of the writers on the Good Men Project make. All men aren’t straight, yet so many of the articles (including this one) make the basic assumption that men experience sexuality in one way — and that way is heterosexual. Without at least an examination of our culture’s own inherent heteronormativity and homonegativity, we cannot move forward with any meaningful dialogue about male sexuality.