Keeping your problems to yourself can make them seem worse.
This was previously published on Men’s Wellbeing.
The latest suicide figures have been released and, unsurprisingly, little has changed. Four times as many men commit suicide compared to women. This is true whatever age range is being considered. It is also true internationally. Wherever you live in the world, as a man you are four times more likely to end your own life than your female neighbour. So what is happening?
One key factor is that the people who kill themselves tend to be depressed or have alcohol issues. It’s not that women don’t get depressed or have alcohol issues; it’s more the way women choose to deal with these problems. Women are more likely to talk through their problems with a close friend or family member. This acts as a protective factor. If you can talk through your problems you not only feel less alone, but paradoxically, the problems don’t seem as bad, either.
Men, on the whole, are not as good as women about asking their mates for help. I see this all the time with the men I work with. They may be going through hell and grappling with really serious issues, but they wouldn’t dream of turning to their mates for support.
And this is crucial. If you feel alone with your problems, they can often seem insurmountable. Suicide seems more reasonable in these circumstances, as a way of ending the pain. Perhaps this is also why men choose more lethal ways of taking their own life than women, and succeed more often as a consequence.
Saying that men are more likely to commit suicide because they are less able to talk through their problems with their mates just begs a different question: Why don’t fellas talk?
At a biological level, testosterone starts killing off the social/emotional brain in men from only six weeks old. The testosterone surge at puberty, for many men, finishes the job off. As a consequence many men simply lack the ability to communicate effectively about their problems and needs. No doubt this has an impact on male subculture, which prizes strength over vulnerability and competence over failure. It’s unsurprising that many men, when faced with difficulties in life, feel they have nowhere to turn.
So what should you do if you are having suicidal thoughts and feelings? It’s really important you let someone know how you feel. I understand it’s difficult talking to friends and family, but they can often be the best people to turn to. If there is simply no one you trust, then turn to the professionals. Your G.P. is a good place to start, as is a therapist. Both will have heard men talk of suicide many times before, so you won’t be burdening them. If anything they will be concerned to hear how unhappy your life is right now. If speaking to someone face to face is too much to start with, ring the Samaritans on 08457 90 90 90. They have decades of experience of helping men with their suicidal feelings.
At a broader level, we need to change the male culture of ‘toughing it out’. We may not be able to change the impact of testosterone on our brains, but we don’t have to accept indifference to our fellow men as desirable or acceptable. You can start to make that change yourself today. Start looking out for your buddies, and if they seem to be having a hard time of things, make the space for them to talk about what’s going on for them. You don’t have to solve their problems, and they may well turn the offer down, but simply knowing that someone cares enough to try can literally mean the difference between life and death.
In Canada and the U.S., the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-TALK (8255).
Read more on Suicide and Health, Psych & Addiction.
Image of sad paper person courtesy of Shutterstock
About Dr Phil Tyson
Great topic that has been hashed and rehashed for years. But nothing has been done to change things. Let’s be honest guys, men are not important in our society and are more dispensable/disposable them ever before. All I’ve seen from both political parties for the past countless days is “the women’s vote” and there we have it, a glaring snapshot at where we’re at and how important we are.
Take a look at fatherless kids, studies re clear that active dads in kids lives are critical to the childs well being yet what’s being done about it? Nothing.
Years ago, I believe it was in the 1950’s, movie theaters did subliminal messages to get people to go any buy at the concessions. It was stopped for obvious reasons. You can’t tell me that the years of negative messaging about men hasn’t played a part in how men feel these days?
Access to mental health services? Yeah, right. Where is it in the proposed national health plans where specifically men’s health is accommodated? Men’s mental health system is call the “prison system” and if a guy manages to avoid that system, he can wither away and take care his issues his own way. Studies show that men don’t seek help, and for that matter don’t go to the doctor as they should, so men aren’t the “target market.” Take a look at a news stand, note how many women’s magazines there are and how many of them deal with women’s health …. It’s a big market and men aren’t part of it.
Has anyone mentioned the numbers of suicide by men that were related to losing his kids? Because a court system caters to the “moms” on the world and as I said before, disposes the men/dads.
I’ve personally known three guys who have killed themselves. I would bet my left one that most people, though they may recognize someone who is depressed, can’t see the signs where the guy has moved from depression to committing himself to suicide.
Although they may be depressed, some men still function well while being depressed. They’re great at hiding it and in my opinion, it’s ones that hide it well (nonetheless do show signs) are the ones you have to watch. The end of the game? Euphoria …. That’s when he’s committed to the end and is actually looking forward to it. I know it sounds bad to say but it’s the truth. Men succeed what they set out to do.
All I can say is don’t look for things to improve any time soon.
This topic is always a difficult one for me. Having suffered from suicidal ideation for as long as I can remember and having lost my best childhood friend to suicide these statistics really hit close to home.
My best friend was being abused in the same way and by the same people I was and he ended his life when we were fifteen. I wish I could say that deaths such as his are now much less likely to occur but the reality is that there is still not nearly enough support for male abuse survivors.
I know first-hand how little help there is available for those of us, the 1 in 6 of us, who were abused. When we reach out for help and don’t get it, often suicide becomes a more likely option to put a stop to our suffering.
How many suicides could be prevented by making the support we need readily available?
I hope someday things will change enough so this question will no longer need to be asked.
“At a biological level, testosterone starts killing off the social/emotional brain in men from only six weeks old. The testosterone surge at puberty, for many men, finishes the job off. As a consequence many men simply lack the ability to communicate effectively about their problems and needs”
Well, gee Doc, it doesn’t seem particularly fair to ask us to do something we apparently “lack the ability” to do, something that’s been “killed off” in our brains. If your facts are straight (which if you can’t tell, I highly doubt they are) doing so would be the same as asking the blind guy to draw you a colored picture of a tree.
The present use of language and highly contested sources of dubious best seller fame are all part of the growing issue of “Neurosexism” – take a poorly understood factoid – expound upon it and create a supposed Self Evident truth that divides people at a chromosomal and hormonal level!
It’s the same as the idiots who heard that cyanide had been detected in the tail of Halley’s Comet (1910) and so many bought the special comet pills to ward of the supposed deadly effects! It’s Total Barnum & Bailey – “Every crowd has a silver lining.”
I would strongly recommend “Delusions of Gender: The Real Science Behind Sex Differences” by Cordelia Fine – 2011. It does point out the failures of many to approach subjects in a rational manner, and also provides detailed counterpoints to the “Neurosexism” and scientific laissez-faire faire idiocy.
Many reviewers have described it as a timely rebuke and scathing of the pseudo-science being peddled! It’s quite comical how she takes so many well known examples of the Neurosexist Pseudo-science Best Seller Genre, from both earth and other heavenly bodies, and on their own terms shows just how misleading, sexist, abusive and down right wrong they are!
It’s also classified as easy read, so there are no excuses! There are none so blind as fail to read!
ht tp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.htm
Basically they found women attempted more but as a cry for help but men see it as an endgame final solution.
I believe recently they found there were just as many men who were depressed as woman but men showed different signs, and opened up about it/reported it less. Anyone else hear about this or know where the study is?
According to my mental health studies class, more women attempt suicide, but more men succeed at it. This is partly due to the methods used. Women tend to use suicide methods that you you have a better chance of surviving and being saved from (e.g. overdosing on a medicine), while men use more violent and lethal means (e.g. shooting oneself with a gun).
So, Brittney, perhaps women’s attempts are really not intended to succeed but are especially powerful ways of saying “help me” which are then heard? Perhaps because women expect to be heard?
And perhaps men’s expectation that they will not be heard and not be helped leads them to conclude that they should just go ahead and succeed in killing themselves?
Whatever the case may be, Brittney, I have a question for you and wellokaythen:
Are you saying that special efforts to prevent male suicide should not be made?
This is partly due to the methods used. Women tend to use suicide methods that you you have a better chance of surviving and being saved from (e.g. overdosing on a medicine), while men use more violent and lethal means (e.g. shooting oneself with a gun).
So the next question is, “Why do men tend to pick more violent means?”
I’m sure if this were something that was mainly affecting women we’d have no problem wanting to go deeper than, “this is why it affects women more.”.
“more women attempt suicide, but more men succeed at it. ”
I’ve found this claim suspect, because it’s been my experience that when the statisticians compile their data they fail to take into account 2 things: 1, that every “successful” suicide was an attempt first, most compilers list as one or the other and 2: if someone doesn’t succeed in killing themselves the first time, they are then able to attempt it again a second time, or a third time, and so on.
That’s part of it Britteny and the rest is the difference in the degree of intent. when men attempt suicide, they more often actualy intend to kill themsleves. That’s just a function of the empathy apartheid in society – if a woman makes “a call for help”, she ‘s likely to get it, along with sympathy and soul-searching all around; when a man does it he is derided and despised for ebing weak. So the call for help is not really an option. No one will give a shit anyway.
And this bullshit, sub-professional article, full of victim blaming of men and denialism to the point of not mentioning any of the concrete reasons men kill themselves – no mentio of the realities of how divorces work in this society, no mention of the completely lop-sided effects of military service between genders, no mention of the way violence against men s glorified in the culture – is an example of that empathy apartheid. he quite palinly dopesn’t really give a shit about why men kill themsleves, not enough to analyze it even a bit.
Tyson’s bullshit about testosterone is straight up offensive, sexist hate speech. He would hardly write anything about estrogen as a causal factor to anything negative. He says testerone kills of parts of the brain that influence social bonds; has he ever written anything about estrogen killing off the parts of the brain that influnece logic or spatial or math skills? (I hope not. That’s crap too.)
It’s disappointing that a stark reality such as this – men perceiving their lives as not worth continuing, which is worthy of our compassion and personal attention – is so often responded to with generalizations and generic platitudes. Applying the scientific method to this sort of existential dilemma is risky to begin with. As soon as we quantify human emotion with soulless chemical reactions arbitrarily going off in the brain we’re already in trouble. Just to perceive a human being in such terms is enough to make many men and women feel that life is scarcely a sacred experience worth having.
Saying that men are more likely to commit suicide because they are less able to talk through their problems with their mates just begs a different question: Why don’t fellas talk?
At a biological level, testosterone starts killing off the social/emotional brain in men from only six weeks old. The testosterone surge at puberty, for many men, finishes the job off. As a consequence many men simply lack the ability to communicate effectively about their problems and needs. No doubt this has an impact on male subculture, which prizes strength over vulnerability and competence over failure. It’s unsurprising that many men, when faced with difficulties in life, feel they have nowhere to turn.
A side question about testosterone.
I was thinking that when it came to explaining why men do things biological factors are usually pushed to the back seat behind cultural factors. For example if the question was why do men commit more DV than women I don’t see too many people actually falling back on “it’s because of testosterone”.
What I’m wondering is if it’s striken out as a factor in the violence that men commit against others (because seriously these days you can’t as why commit more DV than women without running into talk of patriarchy, male privilege, and oppression of women) why is it brought up in the talk of men commiting violence against themselves?
I did a piece here a few weeks ago questioning if the very same factors that contribute to men and boys commiting violence against others is also contributing to the violence that they do to themselves (called “Why So Violently?”). I just wonder how balanced and fair it is to say that men commit violence against others because of social factors (they are taught violence) but then turn around and say they commit violence against themselves because of biological factors (the violence was already there).
Sorry for the derail.
Yes, and testosterone itself is a far more complicated influence than it is commonly described. In discussions like this one, testosterone seems pretty simple and straightforward – men have more of it and it causes X to happen, end of story. In fact, the relationship between testosterone and the brain is very complex, and behavior influences testosterone as much as the testosterone influences behavior. (Root for the team that loses the Super Bowl and your level goes down. Get into a fistfight and your level surges AFTER the fight.)
If we think of testosterone as some sort of poison, then it’s only natural to think of it in simple, toxic terms. If we recognize that it’s a hormone that’s part of a highly complicated biochemical system, then we ought to be wary of overly simple explanations.
Bear in mind that medical science is still not really sure how anti-depressants actually work, so explaining the link between testosterone and behavior is still a bit of guesswork.
Bear in mind that medical science is still not really sure how anti-depressants actually work, so explaining the link between testosterone and behavior is still a bit of guesswork.
I would love to see the study protocols for establishing the supposed facts being propagated.
Lets see – we need a longitudinal study with a minimal number of subjects from conception to say age 25 – that will be women who agree that whilst pregnant we can investigate – blood tests – ultrasounds – selective culling of both male and female foetuses for dissection of the brain …. oh that means loosing subjects so we need to have a massive group that is really representative of population – say 20,000 with 10,000 foetuses harvested for dissection…… Now where to get the finding from – and I do need to get it past the ethics committee too!
There has been no single valid study for a reason – and taking other unrelated studies and synthesising them into supposed “”facts”” is bad science! Such action does not establish facts – it can establish a hypothesis!
When bad science is then used to promote Gender Stereotypes and negative perceptions … well it really is bad science and time to call it a day – and that’s not a Hypothetical issue, it’s reality!
Hang on.
I see nowhere mentioned any statistics about *attempts* at suicide. My understanding was that men and women attempt suicide at much closer rates, but men are statistically more likely to “succeed” at the attempt. Men are far more likely to use a gun or other more certain method, less likely to leave a note, and less likely to use a suicide attempt as a cry for help. Women are more likely to try an overdose, for example, which fails to kill more than most people think. Women tend to attempt suicide in ways that are easier to thwart. For every instance in which a man kills himself, there are 2-3 times in which a woman attempts to kill herself.
So, one part of the difference can be explained by the difference in methods that men and women use.
And then the question becomes: What motivates this difference in methods? I don’t think men tend to use carbonmonoxide poisoning, hanging and guns because they like cars, western movies and guns and that the fatality rate of those methods are just a unfortunate coincidence.
The difference in methods sometimes seem to me to be a red herring which can be used to cut the discussion short. Almost a sort of victim blaming: well, men use guns and those are deadlier therefore more men die from suicide – nothing more to discuss.
That men don’t talk about their problem, or don’t seek help from them is a problem which the article correctly identifies. That it then goes on to simplisticly blame it on testosterone poisoning is very disappointing.
I suck at asking for help. I get asked and volunteer to help friends and family with practical matters like moving, painting, renovating and so on. I have accepted offers, but I can only recall very few times where I’ve directly asked for help (I asked my uncle to help me move from my dorm 15 years ago – only three weeks after my brother and I spent 12 hours helping him to move. Today I called my father-in-law to ask him to babysit while I attend a neighbourhood meeting – it took an effort to make that simple request). I really don’t know where this reluctance to ask for help comes from. I suspect it’s part a strong desire to be self-sufficient, part a fear of being a burden for someone else and parts which I can’t identify. And that’s just when it comes to practical matters. When it comes to mental issues, well…it’s even worse. Although I on an intellectual level knows that talking about problems might alleviate the problem it is nevertheless hard to visualize talking about it leading to a solution of the problem and hence it’s easy to think: Why burden someone when it won’t solve it anyway.
My mother was depressed a lot while I grew up and when I was 17 her mental health deteriorated. In the following year up to present time she has had a number of different diagnosises. My father passed away suddenly when I was 18 and I was the oldest child in a family with two younger siblings. We’ve all had to sign off on her being committed against her will (as much as a person in a full blown deep psychosis can be said to have a will) while we still were minors. With help from neighbours and family who took in my younger sisters at times we managed to keep the family together and to maintain some autonomity over ourselves. My mother’s disease(s) have been the focus for many many years in just about any interaction we have with her. While we see how it impacts her and how it makes it hard for her we also see how convienient it is and has been as an excuse for not doing anything to improve her life. We’ve been the parents and she’s been the child for a long time.
If I ever develope mental issues of a certain level of seriousness I don’t think I’ll ever be able to expose my closest and dearest to the level of strain I’ve seen my mother’s issues have caused us children (as well as the quality of life I’ve seen her have). I suspect what happens then would very much depend on exactly how strong my innate fear of death proves to be and to what extent my evaluation of what impact my suicide would have on my nearest would be influenced/distorted by my illness.
It is very weird situtation to realize that if I will need help and that help very possible will help me I most likely won’t ask for that help and I don’t even know exactly why that is.
Oh Boy! P^{}
I will open by making it clear that I am most unhappy by the loaded language and stereotypes that this piece is party to propagating.
Saying that men are more likely to commit suicide because they are less able to talk through their problems with their mates just begs a different question: Why don’t fellas talk?
My own experience is anecdotal, but when I use it I have to query the validity of that statement and the question.
In my experience (Some 30 years) fellas do talk – the issue is not the talking, it’s the listening! So why is it when fellas are talking, the listening and understanding is failing and defective? There are differing level of responsibility in communication and I’m tired of this one way street trope – and it’s always fellas driving the wrong way! If they were only more like………?
Man Blaming is when it’s always the man’s fault – due to some male deficit or defect – and I have to say that the whole Testosterone kills off brain cells and leads to emotional deadness by the end of teenage years is highly suspect! I know it hit gender politics vogue around 2006 with the publication of The Female Brain – Louann Brizendine M.D. The contents are questioned as are her claims – and she even got the 2006 Becky Award (“the Johannes Goropius Becanus Award”) for her questionable conclusions and ideas based upon questionable data and interpretation. It’s not a well known award – but it is damning and was widely supported – just a few critics – the NY Times – Science Magazine – most professionals in the field …!
To Quote The Book – page 14:
WOW – so we all have an Innate Biological Destiny – so why bother with reality? The best seller says so and there is no way that a best seller can be wrong is there?
Two observations – 1) Not a single reference to a reputable scientific source is provided 2) It completely ignores the scientific findings on Brain Plasticity and how neuron growth relates to social experience.
The Ultimate Man Blaming – Testosterone is the issue? Well according to Brizendine women use some 27000 words per day and men use 7000 – and this is somehow proof that men are emotionally and linguistically stunted from birth due to testosterone?
Odd but women also have Testosterone too – so how does that work?
I do have quite a long standing and ongoing interest in neurobiology and psychology, and I wonder at the claims made – their sources and validity!
Varying figures are quoted, but at the basic human speech rate of 3 towards per second it calculates out at 150 Minutes per woman per day of speech Vs 39 minutes per day for men! … and Some would even quip that certain figures are underestimates – but then again the studies to back up the claims are missing! Extant research and existing work debunked the claims before they even existed in print!
Such a pity that the claims being made are simply not supported by facts – but why let those get in the way of a best seller and so many having reality defined for them by supposed claims that don’t stand scientific rigour?
The book has so many sweeping generalisations and stereotypes, from telling the readers what they absolutely already know – before telling them what it is they supposedly know – (such an interesting linguistic plus emotional writing technique) – right through to the negative and unbalanced presentation of men from conception to grave … mention a study of child development and “Girls Win Hands Down”, but it’s odd that the study itself was not looking at winners and losers, just development.
Well it all smacks far more of personal views and politics than credible writing by a supposed neuropsychiatrist, researcher and clinician. Of course, her primary focus is upon her work since 1994 has been The UCSF Women’s Mood and Hormone Clinic, which she founded – so there is no risk of professional bias getting in the way?
Why is there no Man’s Mood and Hormone Clinic – or even the Human Mood and Hormone clinic. It’s almost stereotypically negative of women – It’s all hormones! Men apparently don’t have any hormones that count – not even one’s that all humans share!
I love this from USA Today;
Being a woman, says neuropsychiatrist Louann Brizendine, is like having giant, invisible antennae that reach out into the world, constantly aware of the emotions and needs of those around you.
Well if Brizendine’s views on antennae are so well founded and researched – er???? – why are they so poorly tuned in to men and suicide? … or is it that men’s “..emotions and needs..” are tuned out and off the radar? Can’t have it both ways! … Constantly Aware?
On the conclusions promulgated by Brizendine, it is quite possible to say that the issue is not men’s lack of words, it’s the lack of access to discussion! P^) …. can’t get a word in edgeways!
The only good thing that can be said for her ideas is that it infuriated so many they set out to check every fact and even research further … and guess what? Well literally everything she claimed has been debunked! Her ability to locate obscure studies that support her views has been questioned, as has the lack of balance against other sources that contradict the views propagated. Perhaps her Antenna are tuned a different way scientifically?
As a consequence many men simply lack the ability to communicate effectively about their problems and needs.
What a lovely gender based stereotype and escape route for those who don’t wish to listen! It’s all his fault – he lacks the ability to communicate – he can’t communicate effectively – he lacks capacity to express his needs, feelings or even say there is a problem – his ability to interface with antennae is defective? … if he was only more like…… ?
It also propagates an idea that in some way men are defective and that none male is somehow ideal. Men lack? It’s just as easy to say women lack the ability to talk less and tune in their supposed antennae which Brizendine has not been able to get tuned in. I have to wonder why so much language and writing about men always slants to the negative and comparative … and so few notice? Must be that testosterone issue and shrunken brains that lack the ability to grasp communication from birth? Talk about Monopoly and get out of responsibility free card! I must just be the odd man out and just not into the competitive games!
I find it odd but, in my experience, when men do open up and talk the issue they perceive is not an inability to communicate their feelings, fears and worries – it is a lack of willingness by others to hear what they say – to listen! So many report pat, glib,sociably conventional reactions that have nothing to do with hormones and gestation but everything to do with learned social conventions!
As I said – from personal experience, men are talking but folks aint listening.
I wonder if a Book Title “The Male Brain” would be a best seller?
Oh heavens above – She Did Write it “The Male Brain” 2010 – and the reviews are fascinating, such as this one:
“loosey-goosey girlfriend-gab take”? WOW! Such praise! … and then it’s used to back up weak views on a very strong subject!
The language is most interesting from referring to testicles of a foetus as “Tiny” when the context needs no such adjective – down to how Testosterone “Marinates” the male brain. It’s odd but when females are mentioned the language is always expansive and the words less cooked!
Brizendine’s claims may have some value if her book was titled “The Gendered Brain” – or even “What you need to know about your brain, hormones and sex” …. but I’m sure the marketing hype would not have been as big or loosey-goosey! It may have dissuaded reviewers from reading and they getting so excited by the loaded gender language – it may have even made some question the language more!
My question would be – why is it that so many men do raise the issue of their feelings and even suicide and the listening is defective? Is that Deficit Biological or Social or Both?
To that, I would also add a question based upon anecdotal experience, which is “Why do so many men report that from childhood they have had repeated experiences of being lead to believe and even told that their feelings simply do not count?” Is that Deficit Biological or Social or Both?
It’s not a blame game – it’s a very serious point that needs to be looked at not at a male level but a societal level. I’m tired of the Man Blaming as escape from responsibility – it’s time for all parties to quit the blame game and start “LISTENING”!
I would also welcome less negative language and stereotyping around men, and even women for that matter – and the comparative language also needs some antennae to be retuned. That is not a hormonal issue – it’s a human one! It’s hard to have any form of productive communication when the subject is portrayed negatively by supposed experts!
Another question also needs to be asked! If male suicide rates are so high, why is there so little action to address the issue? What role do negative views, language and stereotypes play in media coverage, funding and even social recognition of the issue?
Is that determined in the first 8 weeks of gestation due to Hormones? Are the media just too hormonal to care? Is it that some antennae need retuning? … or is it that whilst some are getting on with the loosey-goosey gab festing they keep missing the bleeding obvious because they are addressing the wrong bloody audience and using bad science to back it up?
MH writes:
“Being a woman, says neuropsychiatrist Louann Brizendine, is like having giant, invisible antennae that reach out into the world, constantly aware of the emotions and needs of those around you.
Well if Brizendine’s views on antennae are so well founded and researched – er???? – why are they so poorly tuned in to men and suicide? … or is it that men’s “..emotions and needs..” are tuned out and off the radar? Can’t have it both ways! … Constantly Aware?”
Great point MH. If men have a responsibility to stop rape, do women have a responsibility to stop suicide? If Louann’s suspiciously supremacist point is valid, then women are letting men down in a huge way. If women caretake others emotional needs better, then shouldn’t *women* be committing more suicide?
Or is it possible that women simply take care of their own emotional needs better?
I would say it is the latter. Additionally, I would say that (as Ozy mentions even though I seem to be banned from commenting on his articles) men are trapped in the man-box. When men show victimhood or vulnerability they usually get mocking and derision *from both sexes* from what I have seen.
When women express suffering they get attention (personally and in a societal way). When men express suffering they get revulsion.
Meant to say “do women have a responsibility to prevent *male* suicide”
Ozy is a zie, doesn’t want to be male or female identified as far as I know? I think female born but identifies as a neutral/no gender? Anyway the site is much more censored from what I gather than the GMP.
Interesting point on “do women have a responsibility to prevent MALE suicide”. Personally I think we all have a responsibility to be decent people, help out where we can and try make the world a better place. Hopefully in doing that there will be less rape, less suicide, less suffering.
“If men have a responsibility to stop rape, do women have a responsibility to stop suicide?”
Are women violently entering men’s personal space and physically interfering with their brains with their body parts that could cause them not only pain and mental anguish but a myriad of diseases? Oh, then rape really isn’t the same as male suicide. The responsibility level isn’t the same, it’s comparing apples and oranges.
Men may be committing suicide but we can’t say that that is because of women. I think it is most likely due to *other men*. Women don’t cause male suicide, but men cause female rape.
I feel bad that I actually had to spell this out, it’s so simple.
As a depressed woman, I have thought about suicide a lot in the past. No one would miss me if I was to be gone, etc but I never went through with it (except maybe the slow form through unhealthy habits). Maybe that is difference. I think about it but do not attempt it.
If you look at the stats on attemps though Jen they show that women are about 3 times as likely to do so than men.
Some seem to think that the start and finish of why men kill themselves more often than women is simply a matter of what means are chosen. Men are more likely to use more overtly violent means (guns and hanging and I think jumping from heights) while women are likely to use less violent means (namely poison and overdosing).
No one would miss me if I was to be gone, etc but I never went through with it (except maybe the slow form through unhealthy habits).
I know those feelings. No one should have those feelings.
You are right about those statistics. I have heard them before. I tend to do a post about suicide once and a while on my blog. Men just succeed more often.
No one should have those feelings but they are there.
You can be depressed and still be a good father, lover, brother and son. I genuinely wish people could see that. People seem to have forget that the man that is depressed is still that same person even though they are depressed. That leads to further isolation.
Men kill themselves 4x more often than women because it doesn’t matter. It’s not considered to be a problem by society. If girls and women killed themselves, 4x more often, you can bet it would be a HUUUUGE issue. By contrast, society at large celebrates and glorifies the death of boys and men, especially if done by violent means. This is the message that boys are taught their whole lives.
Evidence? When has a politician ever, Ever, EVER cared enough to even mention that 4x more boys and men kill themselves than girls and women? When has a politician even suggested intervention, funded by the government? Ever?
N-E-V-E-R. Why not? Because they don’t care.
At ALL.
They care about the wage gap, violence against women, getting more girls into STEM and more women into FT500 offices, and they talk about these issues and are willing to create federally funded and state funded programs. Because society cares. As it should.
But, boys and men dying, especially minority males, by whatever means, is irrelevant societally. What is the point in talking when no one cares to listen, when your issue is a non-issue because you’re male or, even worse, a minority male?
That’s the message that men and boys are given. Boys and men committing suicide so often will change when society at large starts caring that boys and men commit suicide so often. The real question is when is that going to happen?
I think it is hard in general to get people to care much about suicide (unless it happens to someone you care about) because it is seen as a choice.
I live in the SF Bay Area, and there are constantly debates in the media about the suicides at the Golden Gate Bridge. The bridge district approved a suicide barrier a few years ago, but there is no money to build it. It’s going to cost $50 million or something like that. Most people around here honestly aren’t bothered by the large number of suicides at the bridge because they figure if people want to kill themselves, they will kill themselves. I admit I’m personally not sure if the bridge barrier is worth $50 million. It seems like it would be better to spend the money on mental health services. And I lost a good friend to suicide. So I don’t know.
Suicide as a social problem is met with a lot of apathy, sadly.
If women were the ones mainly jumping off the bridge, the money would somehow magically appear. Just lke federal and state governments find hundreds of millions to allocated for violence against women but $0.00 for violence against men.
There was a 15 year old girl from Marin County who jumped off the bridge and her parents are vocal advocates of a barrier. It hasn’t made much difference in public attitudes from what I can tell.
Which is why I write about my troubles with depression. I hope to change attitudes and the stigma for men and woman about talking about it.
Getting battered is also a “choice” but somehow we have VAWA.
“At a biological level, testosterone starts killing off the social/emotional brain in men from only six weeks old. ”
I love all the talk recently about how bad/underdeveloped the “male” brain is. Testosterone does not, repeat, does not kill off parts of the brain.
JTC – the language is so loaded and fits with a best seller aimed at a prescribed audience. Funny but the claims have been debunked and reality just can’t compete with all that coverage from 2006.
Imagine the reaction if a male writer wrote that lack of testosterone in the female foetus failed to kill off parts of the brain? I can read the hate male and even hate mail as I type! P^)
I’ve written a far fuller response – and it’s not moderate!