Oliver Lee Bateman admits that this may not be exactly how the conversation went, but it is exactly how it felt to him.
“Hey, I’m this one guy you met.”
“Hi, good to see you. I’m Emily.”
“Hi Emily. Are you ready for our date?”
“Are you calling this a date? Is that what this is?”
“I guess so.”
“I’m not comfortable with the term ‘date.’ That puts a lot of pressure on me.”
“I agree. Let’s call it hanging out.”
“No, I don’t like that, either. Let’s just call it nothing.”
“Okay, Emily, then it’s nothing. We’re doing nothing.”
“I like that. I like doing nothing with you.”
“Yeah, I guess it beats doing something.”
“Does it? I like staying active. You know, going out and doing stuff.”
“So do I, Emily. I’m a big fan of doing stuff, especially when I go out.”
“Well, there are also times when it’s good to stay in.”
“You’re so right. Most nights, I’d just like to curl up in my pajamas while staying in. It’s a jungle out there and so forth.”
“I hope you’re not one of those guys who just wants me to come over and stay at his dirty rat hole of a place. I want a guy who comes up with interesting ideas for dates.”
“But I thought you weren’t comfortable calling this a date.”
“This? No way—definitely not a date, definitely not with you. What I mean is when I’m on a date with a guy I’m in a relationship with who isn’t you.”
“I see. So what do you want from a relationship, Emily?”
“Relationships? Ugh, those are so twentieth century. I just want something casual.”
“I’m all for that. Casual is best.”
“I don’t agree. See, I want you to want to have a relationship with me, but I don’t want to have a relationship with you.”
“What? That’s confusing!”
“No, I need attention from you. But I’m definitely not going to reciprocate. Not your attention, anyway. I’m going to reciprocate someone else’s attention, except that’ll be a one-way street, too. What I want, I guess, is at least two one-way streets: One where you’re needing me and one where I’m needing some other, better guy.”
“If you need a better guy, why are we hanging out?”
“Hanging out? I thought we were doing nothing.”
“Excuse me, why are we doing nothing?”
“You asked me out, right?”
“Huh? You sent me an e-mail asking me if I wanted to have coffee with you, Emily.”
“I didn’t mean it. I think you totally misinterpreted that.”
“Did I?”
“When a girl says or writes that she wants to have coffee with you, she’s trying to tell you that she doesn’t want to have coffee with you. I was being nice.”
“But I didn’t want to have coffee with you. However, I did want to have coffee after you asked me, because I thought you were interested in me…”
“Why on earth would you think that?”
“You wrote that you were interested in me and wanted to have coffee!”
“I wasn’t, though. That’s just what I wrote. You’re so silly.”
“Okay. Let me see if I understand: Right now we’re doing nothing, and this isn’t a date, and you didn’t want to go on it, even though you asked me to go.”
“Exactly. How hard is it to understand that?”
“What about this other, better guy? Why don’t you have coffee with him?”
“If I had coffee with him, he might learn that I liked him. I want to have a relationship with him, but I don’t want him to know that. Besides, I have a fear of relationships. Also a fear of dates.”
“But not a fear of doing nothing.”
“No, doing nothing is okay. Anyway, you’re harmless. Like a brother or a best girlfriend. I can say anything to you and it won’t bother you at all.”
“Yeah, I’m glad you can, Emily. Lucky for you, I’m a total doormat. I don’t have any feelings. I’m the perfect guy to do nothing with, and I certainly won’t challenge you in any way.”
“Just don’t pressure me. I don’t like being pressured.”
“Have I pressured you, Emily?”
“I can’t shake the feeling that you’re trying to turn this nothing into something. This nothing will never be something, guy I met.“
“I don’t expect it to be. In fact, I have no expectations at all. You matter, but I don’t. I’m happy to sit here and listen to you ramble about your doubts, hopes, and dreams. I won’t even point out how contradictory they are.”
“Great! So I can tell you how I want a guy who will love me with all of his heart, except he’ll ignore me most of the time. Money won’t matter, but he’ll be very rich and will buy me lots of expensive crap. He’ll be handsome but not really, not enough that he’ll ever make me feel insecure about my looks, and I’ll always be able to outsmart him, even though he’s a genius. We’ll have kids, and I’ll care about them so much that I’ll never see them because I’m always on vacation or getting my nails done or getting my highlights retouched or whatever.”
“That sounds so wonderful, Emily. It sure does. My life is of no consequence, and I’ll die alone and forgotten, but I’m happy that you have it figured out.”
“I don’t respect your opinion, but I’m glad you’re listening to me. You should be, too.”
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image: crazycatchthecat / flickr
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About Oliver Lee Bateman
Oliver I LOVE this. Sounds distressingly like my marriage as well as any number of comment discussions here on GMP.
Seconded–this is great, Oliver!
I read this a few times and thought-Who are these people? They both seem unbearable!
I’m glad my dating life was not like this and I’m even more glad my friends don’t act this way cause I’d wind up dumping them for passive aggressive co-dependent BS if they did.
Here’s to actually enjoying being who you are with!
I loved this! Very interesting and sadly there are many women who are like this. Don’t get me wrong, I love my sisters and all but this was very ‘nice guy finishes last’/'stuck in the friend zone’/'women love assholes’-ish, which unfortunately isn’t very uncommon. It’s clear this is one of the reasons men have difficulty understanding women especially in this context. For crying out loud, say what you mean and mean what you say!!
I’m going to chime in here and hopefully not (really) embarrass Oliver. I’m his fiancee, and this is the first piece of his I ever read when we began dating two years ago.
At that point, I’d been ‘dating around’ quite awhile as well, and frankly, was way-too-aware that there were girls out there like this, and was sick of dealing with guys who, somehow, deep down, actually preferred girls who strung them along… they seemed to view them as ‘independent’ and ‘mysterious’ — whereas I was pretty sure they were just ‘playing games’ and ‘issue-y’. It was something I just wasn’t willing to put up with anymore – it was sort of the girl version of the ‘nice guys always finish last’ phenomenon — and made me feel pretty disillusioned. I knew there must be a guy out there who actually was ‘onto’ girls like this and not willing to put up with it (at least, not anymore). It seemed like that guy and I were the proverbial ships passing in the night, though.
But when I met Oliver and he showed me this not long after — it was a good indication to me that he was probably a pretty genuine guy. Nice and polite enough to put up with this in the moment, but sick of it nonetheless and not willing to chase such a girl in any kind of ongoing way. Sure enough, he was consistently was the most upfront and genuine guy I’d ever dated… hence the whole ‘becoming engaged to him’ thing
But I’m glad to see this positive feedback on this piece — it remains one of my very favorites of his.
I appreciated your comment, Bethany.
I’m glad you two found each other; there are lots of “nice guys / girls” out there – IMHO – it’s just harder noticing them. Good thing you were able to do.
Bethany, you lucky girl! Got yourself a keeper!
Bethany, thanks for your comments! I think I am right where you were two years ago & I agree – this would be a very refreshing thing to read from someone! Thanks for sharing.
My pleasure, Katie… and here’s my best advice – not that you asked for it, but I’m still going to give it: don’t read ‘He’s Just Not That Into You’!! It might just be women in my age range (30ish) that felt like we were supposed to read it, and I have no idea if it’s still popular now — but I swear that book and it’s slew of followers seriously disillusioned and confused the heck out of SO many of my single female friends when we were in our mid-twenties.
that single women are ‘supposed’ to read. It took me a long time to realize it’s OKAY to be into a guy, and to hope that he’s into you, too – and be disappointed if it turns out he’s not. Ultimately, I learned it’s just about measured honesty at every stage as you get to know and trust one another, from the very first date. The guy that’s worth it will appreciate it from you, and not scorn you for being ‘too available’ or whatever the latest dating book says you shouldn’t be. I met Oliver at a time in my life when I had no interest whatsoever in even pretending to follow any rules I was ‘supposed’ to follow, and clearly we were all the better for it.
But, even if it’s not that book, there’s always some book for each generation akin to ‘the Rules’ (don’t get me started on THAT one!
Emily sounds wonderful to me. One of a tiny number of honest people on this planet. I think every man on this planet can agree, none of us would honestly want anything to do with Emily.
Here is how to handle it:
Emily: “I hope you’re not one of those guys …”
You: “Thank you for being honest with me, Emily. I can see that neither of us has anything to offer the other. Have a good life.”
Get up and leave.
Yes. Don’t tolerate that behavior from people.
Unfortunately, women or better people like ‘Emily’ aren’t always easy to identify or decipher as Oliver has done so successfully, leaving the other party mystified and confused by the whole interaction..
Oliver, this was hilarious and sad at the same time.
I just wonder why you didn’t metaphorically kicked her butt sooner.
Great writing, anyhow!
I think that obnoxious girl is the female equivalent of the cliché “I just want to fuck you and then you’ll be gone” guy. Totally egocentrical, zero empathy, insecure and manipulative.
I believe that kind of people aren’t many, but they leave a trail of harm and broken hearts on their path (for both genders).
This reminds me of a much shorter conversation that I had with a young lady on a first date.
Her: “Well, if you want to be with me, I have some rules. First, if I call you any time day or night, you better drop what you’re doing and meet me. Second, Don’t call me, I’ll call you. Third…”
Me: “Ok, well…it was nice meeting you. Goodbye.”
@Rand: “… it was nice meeting you”.
You liar!
I laughed my ass off reading this! What makes it so funny is that it’s based on real people! In a truely Fair world , Emily would end up with the guy that Valter described. Wouldn’t that be something to see? I’d buy a ticket to watch that!
@bobbt: “In a truely Fair world , Emily would end up with the guy that Valter described”
Yeah, THAT would be fun!
I saw some couple like this: they were both so self-absorbed, they didn’t notice the other wasn’t listening at all.
They don’t last long, of course.
“When a girl says or writes that she wants to have coffee with you, she’s trying to tell you that she doesn’t want to have coffee with you. I was being nice.”
This made me laugh out loud, and also reminded me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wonVFRasUbA
I spent my late teens/early twenties misreading social cues à la Costanza in that video. It all worked out for the best, but how strange I must have seemed back then.
This might as well be the playbook of every date I went on in my late twenties. Thanks for sharing…
Yeah, what a rough time of life that is. Everyone who hasn’t paired off by then seems even more aimless and confused than before, and as a consequence you keep winding up in situations like the one I described.
Oliver, I love this! Thanks for writing it.
What the guy doesn’t get is that, by constantly telling him that she’s not interested in him and that she’s definitely not in a date with him, she’s actually concealing the fact that she’s into him and wants his babies.
Whatever this woman wantd, it’s definately best you stay awayfrom her, if she keeps telling you contradictory things and blaming you for ‘incompetance’ for not understanding her, it’s highly likely she’s gaslighting you,meaning she is confusing you and maknig you doubt yourself so she can manipulate you into doing what she wants, this is abuse, she may not even realise she’s doing it but it sounds like she’s bad news.
Can you come over and play?
I’ll buy you a plane ticket!
And an expensive dinner. And anything else I can afford! You stay at home and raise the kids?
Hee hee! I’m so glad I am out of the dating world… so confusing! This dialogue gave me a headache! I guess the two sexes will forever miscommunicate and try to second-guess each other…sort of like some crazy chess games where the rules keep changing (but no tells you the new rules and you don’t know how to win)….
This is why I love scuba diving with my husband…you can only communicate through a few key hand signals and gestures…and the goal is very clear: get back to the surface with enough air in your tank and don’t get eaten by sharks!
Oliver, I just stumbled across this site through a friend today and your article was the first thing I read. Suffice it to say I will be returning, this was gold! I probably know 20 girls who actually think this is the way people behave.
Stick with it guys, you might find one angel for every 20 of these airheads, but when you do it’s worth it.
And really, how dull is this stupid Emily?
Here’s my friend Patty’s advice to her boys for dating – Ask people about themselves, and find out what you have in common. Where was she when I was out there? Thankfully no longer!
It’s so refreshing to find friends who are honest and open, whose edges you can feel, who will disagree without being mean about it. Because in the end, truth lets everyone make better decisions for themselves, it really does set us free.
I guess this struck a nerve because being English, we trip over ourselves with being oh, so polite. It’s not always a kind way to live, living our lives of quiet desperation as we do
Good piece but I think it dragged on way too long.
Emily: “No, I don’t like that, either. Let’s just call it nothing.”
You: “I don’t care what it’s called. Let’s just go grab that coffee. You seem like a fun girl.”
Ignore everything else that isn’t a “yes let’s go” or “no, I’ve changed my mind”.
@eric: “Ignore everything else that isn’t a “yes let’s go” or “no, I’ve changed my mind”.”
Ah…!
If only communication between genders was THAT easy and clear!!!
More often than not, it’s rather decoding and guesswork.