Katarina Ilic goes on a short rant about how soon is too soon when first dating.
Originally published on SNSPost.com
Will you allow me to go on a little rant for a minute?
I’m “Love & Sex” Editor at SNSPost in Belgrade, Serbia. I’m in my early 30’s and single. I have the desire to have a partner in life, to meet someone I’d like to spend the rest of my life, i.e. to “do” life together. I’m not desperate to do this nor dying to get married, rather, I’m enjoying my life exactly as it is and I’m committed to living it to the fullest, in line with my truth and highest self.
What does that mean? It means that I’ve been completely open to meeting men, going out on dates, enjoying getting to know them and just having fun, without any pressure. It does NOT mean that I’m into hooking up and casual sex. That being said, I’ve noticed something that just “chafes my ass” {I know, so ladylike and feminine of me, but that’s the phrase that comes to mind.}
I’ve had the experience with some men, after only a couple of times of seeing each other, their next “date” suggestion entails a movie or dinner at his place or mine. Really?!?!
When a man suggests this, especially before we’ve had the chance to really get to know each other, I’m thinking: “He’s interested in one thing and that’s getting into my pants.”
Is that all you have to offer, men? I believe you can do better than that. And more importantly, for me, I want better than that for myself.
What about going out and doing something fun together? Really getting to know each other and experiencing things together. Even if it doesn’t head towards a serious relationship, what about just enjoying getting to know another human being at a soul and heart level, sharing, learning and growing?
I’m not saying that all the planning has to be “on him” or that a ton of money has to be spent on extravagant nights out. Just be a little creative, put in a little effort. A couple of years ago, I went out with a guy who was on a budget. He picked me up and presented me with 3 envelopes, each one contained a card with a different “date” idea on it, all costing less than $50. He asked me to pick one of the envelopes, not knowing what was written on the inside, and that was how we were going to spend our date. It was extremely creative, thoughtful and fun! (Sidenote: he lived in a different city over an hour away, so he actually had to put in a little time and research to come up with these three ideas).
You can certainly ask a woman for ideas and input or just listen, get to know her, and you will find out what she likes and doesn’t like. Living in Belgrade, Serbia, there are plenty of cool things to do here and fantastic events going on. So much more than just hanging out at his place or mine. Which, of course, can be really nice as well, but after we’ve gotten to know each other and it’s a natural progression.
I want people in my life, whether it will be just a friendship or develop into something more, who want to spend time with me because of who I am, not because they’re hoping to get something (like an orgasm) from me.
So that’s my little rant. What do you think? I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.
I was going to ask: “Do you think I’m being irrational and too hard?” But you know what? Back to what I said earlier, I’m committed to living in line with my truth and highest self. So if something makes me uncomfortable, I have to honor that. It doesn’t really matter what anyone else thinks.
I hope you do the same. Live in line with your heart and deepest desires.
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Dating : Chemistry
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photo: beograd / flickr
About Katarina Ilic
Hello Everyone,
Just letting everyone know that we’re a couple moderators short this week. If your comment ends up in moderation for an extended period chances are that’s the reason. Please have patience. Thanks.
Ms. Ilic:
My girlfriend and I, both middle-aged, are trying some thing a little different from the way we’ve done things in the past. Our relationship is relatively new, but we really like one another and both see a strong potential for a longterm committment. So what is it?
She asked if we could try ‘courting’ or ‘courtship.’ I know it sounds a little (or a lot) old-fashioned. What does this mean for us?
Well, for one, she asked that we not rush into the sexual component. She has said that in the past that she has felt pressured to have sex more early in the relationship that she actually wanted to. She promises it’ll be worth the wait and I believe her. Our desire for one another is acknowledged, and honored. There is nothing puritanical in our mindset.
What we are doing is spend time learning about one another, doing things together, travelling, and generally seeing if we will enjoy life together outside the bedroom.
There IS beaucoup affection, flirtation, humor, and plenty of touch.
The foundation of trust and intimacy that we are creating, I believe, will more than compensate for the delay of jumping into the sack.
I’m not trying to offer our model of courtship as a panacea for the world’s dating woes. I think this does work for us, for the the people we are now, at this point in our lives.
However, I’m not going to lie. When she’s indicates she’s ready to enter into that sexual component, I’m going to be a happy, happy man.
I love it @CajunMick!! Thanks for sharing this with us
I believe the single biggest obstacle with women trying to get to know men is that there is always this suspicion that “he’s just trying to get in my pants.” You know what? YES WE ARE! That’s what drives us, that’s why you spend hours researching 3 date ideas and coming up with this romantic envelope thing. You think that guy was NOT trying to get in your pants? Some are just more creative than others. But an important distinction must be made here. We are not only interested in you for sex. We are not trying to figure out a way to use you for reaching our own orgasm.
In my own experience, I met my wife pretty young, I was 19, she was 21. We had sex within a week of meeting. I did not then decide to disappear because I got what I wanted. And she did not assume that meant I was forever committed to her alone. Having sex was part of getting to know each other and only added more emotional connection and spark to the process. I was hungrier to know more about her, I was interested in her family, her dreams, her life goals. I learned about her personality over time, and that personalities in general can ebb and flow, so you can never really expect someone to follow the same line predictably forever. And you don’t want to! It’s important to change and to have a partner learn with you when those changes manifest, to adapt with you during those times.
I think there is a healthy boundary with sex that everyone has for themselves, for women, it tends to be more substantial. I would have sex on a first date no questions asked if it was proposed. And I would not judge a woman if she wanted that. I would call her if I liked her, I would see her again, I would bring flowers, I would still try to get to know her. Romance does not stop the minute after a man’s orgasm, you do not become irrelevant as a person, you do not become less interesting or less deserving of love and affection.
I’m sure that’s true for you. And for many men. But the opposite is also true (being judged, not being called or seen again, being used as a tool in the pursuit of sex/orgasm). And it’s often hard for women to know which potential one night experiences might lead to a more mutually satisfying adventure and which are just….not that.
Many women I know personally have not had the experience you describe above. All people are different and there isn’t a way to determine who wants what, without communicating about it.
And women too, can do the one night thing and then take off, sure as shootin. It’s not just all of us waiting around for romance, women can be mercenary about their needs.
A few dates often provides each party with more information is all, to better determine which path the adventure might take, yes? Or not, it’s really up to the couple.
One time when I was 22, I had sex with a guy on a first date. At that age, I hadn’t had sex with very many guys before (I had a long term boyfriend during most if college). This guy had really been pursuing me for a date. He was a friend of a friend. I wasn’t even that attracted to him but I got really drunk . So. He did not call me again for more than a YEAR. I figured oh well, whatever. Chalk that up to experience. Then one day he calls me out if the blue and really wants to see me. I finally agreed to meet him for coffee. He immediately starts bugging me to go back to my place. He was obviously hoping for a booty called. I said no, he got mad and left the coffee shop and I never heard from him again.
Just one anecdote, I know, but it kind of turned me off early sex. It wasn’t the last time I had casual sex but none of my subsequent encounters were terribly satisfying either.
What I see you all describing here are simply people who are very dishonest about what they want. Quite honestly, I don’t think that’s a single gender problem.
I’ve seen just as many women as men be mercenary about what they want when they go out on a first date. Why is a desire to wined and dined somewhere expensive any more acceptable than a desire to get in someone’s pants? Why is a desire to get your physical needs satisfied any more ‘immoral’ than getting your material desires satisfied?
I’ve had plenty of sex on first dates myself. Being sexually compatible with the man I’m considering spending time with is very important to me. And I have done my share of not calling men back, or not taking a follow up call afterwards, because they were rotten lovers. I’ve also ended up with a few good platonic friendships with men who I felt I was not sexually compatible with. But that was rare.
Does that make me a bitch? I don’t think so. I don’t mind jumping into bed early, but god help you if you’re a lousy lay. I think we can all agree that sex does get much better once two people get to know each other’s bodies, but if I have sex with a man who is selfish and incompetent about his pleasure, there’s nothing under the sun that’s going to make be consider a second date. Certainly not charm, not flowers, and not a neato idea for a second date.
But if I have to be honest, I don’t date people in search of platonic friendships. And I think I’m pretty upfront about that. I find it much easier to judge sexual compatibility than emotional compatibility. For me, knowing if someone is going to be emotionally compatible takes many months. Finding out if someone is sexually compatible is generally quicker. So, for me, that’s a good place to start.
@R.G. “I’ve seen just as many women as men be mercenary about what they want when they go out on a first date.”
YES! That’s parity. 8)
It may suck, it may be disappointing, it breaks the delusion that “MY gender is GOOD! (the other, not so much)”…
But, as a matter of fact, everybody pursue his/her own interest. No gender excluded.
@R.G.: “I find it much easier to judge sexual compatibility than emotional compatibility.”
Of course. Sex is a – somehow – simpler matter than emotional alchemy.
That’s ONE reason (among many) someone can be eager to have sex early in the relationship: they want to know (like you do) if there’s compatibility, or they’re just wasting time.
I have a point of view here: intelligent, fun women are a dime a dozen whereas devoted girlfriends are hard to come by.
So: Why should I pursue the dating game with one more fun and intelligent woman? Well I guess that I just have to if I am looking for a romance, there is not other way. Which brings us to sex… Sex is like the gate that you have to go through to get into the romantic bit. It may not be so great the first time but it is the girl’s okay for relationship with you. If she is willing to do that then you know that you are not wasting your time with her (remember, you are looking for romance).
So, one more fun and intelligent woman in your life but no sex will only lead to disappointment and frustration. It is good to put her to that “test” early on to not waste your time. Anyway, she probably knows already 10 minutes after you have first met if she wants you or not.
That’s an interesting point you make, Joe. But unless you’ve made it clear that you’re interested in something more with her, how does she know you’re not just interested in sex only? So maybe a woman might find you attractive and she might be interested in having sex with you, but just not yet, until she sees if there’s a connection on other levels, too.
I do not have a patent solution unfortunately.
But I can assure you that dating without a set date for the womans decision is like an endless Job interview. Event if you are succesful you will end up exhausted. And even more likely if you show signs of getting tired of dating she will interpret that as lack of interest in her and end the whole thing
If a guy sees it as a chore just to spend time with me, then chances are…we shouldn’t be having a sexual/romantic relationship in the first place. I can find someone else who actually enjoys hanging out with me and makes me feel that I’m worth more than my vagina. Even if you’re having sex several times a day, a good majority of the actual hours spent in a relationship are spent doing other things –eating, watching tv/movies, sleeping, discussing work, engaging in activities that one or both partners enjoy, chilling out, etc. If the mere idea of spending time with a woman is so exhausting to you, you should probably start looking into prostitutes. I’m not saying this to be mean, but it actually might be a good idea if that’s the place you’re in right now. It’s transactional, so you get what you pay for, the acts are all laid out beforehand and there’s no pressure . It’s her job to, well…do her job. Otherwise, you can always try adult websites or one of many hookup scenes. Going on actual ‘dates’ might not be a good idea, because chances are that the women going on them are looking for relationships that are more than just about sex. Even if they’re not long term, at least to get a base level of respect. There’s nothing wrong with wanting just sex (I’ve certainly been there), but be aware that that’s not how everyone feels at every moment of their lives. A woman is not necessarily trying to exhaust or use you—she just might be in a place in her life where she’s looking for a deeper relationship and doesn’t want to get hurt. It doesn’t mean that she’s trying to interview you or get wined and dined…just to get a feel for where you stand and what you’re looking for to see if it lines up with what she’s looking for.
Personally, I want it to be about chemistry and if it happens, it happening organically. Not ‘setting a date.’ There are no number dates or days that are a standard. It’s when and if we feel comfortable doing it. It’s not trickery. Dates can be a very scary thing for women too, especially shy/awkward ones.
I think he’s actually referring to some women who have a huge checklist for a man and the job interview needed is exhausting to find out if he passes or not. Some women can be extremely demanding and it’s not really worth the effort for some people, if I need to jump through hoops on fire whilst dodging bullets and juggling eggs whilst being chased by dogs with bees in their mouth then I’ll stick to porn or save up for a sex worker, or better yet hopefully find a decent woman.
Could also be that he doesn’t want to waste too much time before knowing sexual compatibility is there. If he wants an intimate relationship before she does and she makes him wait 6 months then that is a lot of time to invest in a relationship that hasn’t met his goals. Just as some women (or men) may feel used by giving it up too soon, some men (or women) will feel used it they don’t get any after a while. I guess you could say this is one area that stereotypically women are afraid of commitment
As for me…if I have to wait a few months before intimacy, I’m not sure I could handle that. It may make me feel she isn’t interested or has difficulty with commitment, could send up redflags or just could be someone who doesn’t match very well with my progression in a relationship. It may work, but I have a feeling it’ll be annoying as hell and may cause resentment. I’d NEVER EVER wait for marriage for sex, I will never marry someone I am not fully sure I am sexually compatible with.
Aja: sounds like you want a perfect platonic relationship to decide if the guy is qualified. But that is not good enough for me. Sex makes the relationship deeper.
Joe, I don’t think that asking to be with someone who actually enjoys spending time with me and not seeing the platonic part as some terrible burden counts as needing a perfect relationship. Not everyone is in a place in their lives where they want a casual sexual relationship or can handle that. And it’s not a matter of ‘qualification,’ My vagina isn’t Harvard. It’s not whether or not the guy passes a series of tests, it’s us deciding organically if and when the time is right. I’ve had sex very early on and I’ve had sex with people I didn’t particularly like or saw no future with. I knew going in what I wanted and didn’t care less if the guy kicked me out in the morning never calling me again claiming he was an astronaut going into space later that day. I knew what I was getting into and what I wanted, and often I was the one kicking the guy out. Yet, if you’re this great guy and I’m looking for a deeper relationship at the moment, I might want to hold off a little because I’m scared of getting hurt. Is that so wrong? I would never want anyone to feel like they’re passing a series or tests nor would I ever want to pass a test. At the same time, I don’t want anyone rushing me or pressuring me into something that could turn out so intimate. I also don’t want anyone to put off sex because they’re playing some sort of game. Games are bullcrap. Sometimes it takes a couple of dates to figure out where each of us stands. No one wants to feel used. There’s also the being called a sl*t thing that women face. I would never date such a judgmental guy, but some women might hold off on sex just because of that. You have sex on every first date…your number will get up there when it doesn’t work with every single guy. Suddenly, you meet someone you really like and you’re ‘ruined’ for him. You’re not relationship material and can’t be taken home to mother.
You said the thing about women knowing 10 minutes. That might be true for some women, but it’s not for me. I’ve had things go both ways as I’ve gotten to know a person. Lack of interest to wanting to jump their bones. Finding them hot, to losing attraction for them. It can take days, it can take years. One of the most recent guys I slept with was a friend for many years. He was cool with that and I made it clear I wasn’t going there with him early on. We remained friends (he didn’t have to, he chose to). Years later, I couldn’t keep my hands off of him. At the end of the day, I really just want respect. I don’t want to sleep with a guy who ends up thinking that he ‘scored’ for sleeping with a hot woman. Or one who thinks I’m easy and just a good booty call for getting into bed too early. Or someone who brags to his friends. Or judges my body. Or thinks that I gave in due to his coercion skills. It’s not about testing a person’s credentials, it’s just getting a feel for who he is and how he’ll treat you. Getting hurt and humiliated is not pleasant.
thank you Aya. well said.
I think there is a serious need for some real initimacy in the world today that can only be achieved by getting to know someone. So I get the article and the courtship reply.