This is what Lisa Hickey thinks of the so-called gender battle: we’re all in it together.
I read Meghan Casserly’s post on the Forbe’s blog. And Tom Matlack’s response. And Hugo Schwyzer’s response to both.
And decided that instead of a rebuttal to any of them, I’d like to tell a story.
I worked in advertising for a long time. Yes, it was male-dominated, and yes, there were cries of sexism all over the place. At one point I quit one job and my boss came in while I was starting to pack my office said, “What can we do to make you stay?” and I replied, “I’m leaving because I got offered a job as Creative Director. Name another female Creative Director in New England. If you can name one, I’ll stay.” I kept packing.
That was the job where, when I was working, I used to leave the office at 5:00 pm, rush home, pick up my kids, make supper, put them to bed … and then, when they were sound asleep, rush back to the office and work from 10 pm ‘til 2 in the morning. Days long before cell phones, or email as a way of working, or cloud computing—all of which makes my blurry professional and personal life totally joyous. When I left that job to take the job as a creative director, I had just gotten pregnant with my fourth child. Ten months later, I was flying to Los Angeles to do a three-week television shoot for Fidelity Investments. Two-month-old Shannon came with me. For every job after that—five full time ones and countless freelance jobs—I made as much or more than any man, anywhere I went in advertising. As Aaron Gouveia said in the comment on Hugo’s post, I learned to negotiate. I had taken the Creative Director position just so I would have bargaining power to do so.
Years later, people would say to me “I heard about you! You were the one who worked in advertising with all those kids!”
Yep, that was me. Was it hard? Hell yeah.
But now, you know what I see? I see men who want that. They want what I’m having—that exact same thing. They want a way to be a part of their children’s lives in a way that is fundamentally different than the way previous generations had been involved. And they don’t want to do it at the expense of a great career that gives them a sense of value. They want to be good at both.
The men I know are the ones I bump into at the PTA meetings, who are coaching our kids in ice hockey, who I run into at Staples as we buy school supplies. They are the same men I later discuss a new entreprenurial business venture with, or who need help making a movie or running a non-profit. The men I know have the exact same amount of marital problems as the women I know. The men I know think this economy is tough and are working as hard as they can to make things work any way they can. I know men who refuse to go on television shoots because they would miss their child’s birthday, and men who break a phone call with me because their daughter is sick at school. Or the men I know are married and gay and have kids anyway. Or not married and gay and have kids anyway. Some of the men I know were women in a former lifetime. The men I know want to get promoted to creative director because they did something extraordinarily creative. The men I know aren’t the ones out there promoting sexism, not in any way shape or form that I can see it. The men I know get that oh, these times are hard, and guess what—we’re all in this together.
Is there a gender war? Or could it be that it’s really hard to juggle both an amazing career and be an amazing parent, and both genders find it equally hard. Roles are changing, and the old stereotypes have got to change, and whatever else needs to be figured out, we’ll figure out together. Why can’t it be that simple?
About Lisa Hickey
Amen.
Really powerful, Lisa. I often think tensions are high, everywhere, because times are so tough right now, for everyone.
Agree! And all the more reason to reach out and help others.
Thanks for this, Lisa. My gender war is simply to work toward removing the stereotypes that say men and women are stuck in specific roles. We know that is not always true–not in the 21st Century–and, yet, there are still reminders of our past that linger. When I pick up my daughter after school, I would say about half of the parents there are men! Wow, right? We CAN get past all of this. It’s really not so hard because it is happening. While I do strive to show my daughter that there are no limits to what she can achieve, I also know that she is in a better place than I was at the same age. But I know she will face challenges as a woman (and men will face challenges as well). I hope to prepare her for those. In the end, though, we are all in this together hoping for the same result: that we look at ourselves as human beings who all deserve to be given the same opportunities. At least, that’s what I hope.
Bravo, yes, Michele. We’re big fans here of breaking down the stereotypes. And at the same time saying, “Hey, it’s ok if there are some parts you don’t want to change. Not everything is broken.” And I’m heartened by the number of ways we can connect with people, how much easier it is to open ourselves up to multiple points of view, the honest level of communication about the struggles and triumphs we’re all going through.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
It’s not a “what if”. These gender issues are as old as time, although it’s only recognized as a recent phenomenon because of the rise of 3rd wave feminism, which dramatically increased tension between the sexes. Those who have been traditional supporters of family values have been at odds with the anti-familial aspects of feminism. Times are changing though and more men are choosing to focus on their own personal liberation rather than being confined to an old fashioned social contract that really doesn’t exist any more, except in the minds of idealists and romantics.
We hear a lot about how men must change to adapt to modern times but that is already happening naturally. Hook up culture and the rise of the Japanese soushoku danshi are prime examples. Women’s liberation has always been viewed as good for women, but men’s liberation is bad.
Ultimately, we’re all in this boat together, but we must ask ourselves who is doing the rowing and who is doing the steering?
I agree it’s already happening. I don’t see men’s liberation as bad at all, and that’s one view we seek to change here.
As for that boat you got — I’m a big fan of taking turns.
The obseration that men must change to adapt to modern times proves my point.
Society has changed to meet the demands of modern women and men are simply expected to adapt rather than society changing to accommodate men. It’s obviously a case of having to just deal with the situation, of playing our traditional role of just sucking it up and getting on with it. No change there.
Hi Keevo,
I think women have changed — a lot. Not just society. Do you not see that?
And the reason to change is simply *life gets better*. At least on this site, no one is saying guys *have* to change. But those who have changed have found it has had a profound and extraordinary impact on their life.
I was reading the other day (and I’ll have to track down the source) — that once people do make a profound change that makes them happier, the effects are cumulative — that is those people keep getting happier and happier and happier. It’s not just a “oh well, things are a little better now.” It’s that happiness escalates.
It happened to me. I changed after years of resisting it. And wow.
I don’t think women have changed fundamentally and I don’t think society has changed fundamentally either. Sorry if I sound cynical but I have my reasons, namely the cold hard facts. I feel bad in a way, like I’m being negative in the face of all this optimism but I am being completely honest.
I’m certainly not one of these people who gets off on being disdainful and negative for its own sake. If women have changed a lot then you’ll have to give me some examples because I really don’t see it, honestly, likewise regarding society.
The point is that there is a distinction between superficial and fundamental change. Things have changed considerably on the face of it and it’s easy to be carried away by this and overlook the basic fundamentals which are constants. Look at attitudes to men, I mean really look at them and read what people actually say specifically, notice a pattern?
Also it’s important to clarify another distinction. I am 100% for personal change and am well overdue for some changes in my life as it happens, I totally agree with you about change at a personal level. However there is a distinction between personal change and society as a whole, I wasn’t saying anything about change at an individual level, I meant in terms of the big picture. Of course there is some overlap but it’s another important distinction.
An example of what I mean is an article on this site about questioning the writer’s identity as a man (something to do with a Russian kickboxing instructor), anyway, look at the venemous and personal reactions telling to “man up” etc. Anyway thanks for responding.
What if They Had a Gender War and No One Came?
All the guys in the munitions business would be pissed?
They have stock piles and an incentive to promote warfare.
Chortling.
Lori – why are you chortling?
Did you sell your stocks before the bottom fell out of the market for WMD – Weapons Of Male Destruction?
Now I know why I’ve had the feeling you never sleep.
Great story- you’ve done more than just balance 2 full time roles; you’ve excelled at them. I really admire you. You’re right- you and I share the same goals.
Balance has been a struggle for me. I derailed my career years ago when my 2nd child was born with severe birth defects. 5 months of leave and countless emergency room visits, the usual involved parent stuff (preschool plays, pta meetings, activities), and more than our share of helping aging relatives put me really far back on the list. Before birth I was being considered for senior exec roles, now, a few years later, I’ve gotten some nice raises but I’m DEFINITELY off the fast track. I don’t regret it though. I’ve had the privilege of being Daddy for (now 3) great children.
I’m gearing up for a career re-birth now that we’re out of the woods. I’ll be looking for a new company (and probably a new industry) in the spring. My goal- maintain being Dad and Husband while re-capturing my lost (for the moment) momentum.
Thanks CW. You are an example of exactly what I was talking about. You are there for your kids, when you need to be. But now you’re figuring out how to grow in your career as well.
One of the best things about this day and age is that it’s never too late to start over. It’s easier than ever to learn new skills, build new networks, become more entrepreneurial. I wish you all the best!
You know another barrier I would love to break down as a father. That I am a real parent. YES, a real parent.
Story inbound, warning.
2 years ago my wife and I were going thru a rough spot and we had seriously discussed divorce. She said some things to me during this time period that led me to believe that she was going to run off with the kids to her parents in another province (we live in Canada).
This made me very scared, so I took the step of going to the school and inquiring about preventing her from taking them out of school without both our permissions. They told me there is nothing they could do to stop her from taking the kids. And of course they were right.
Fast forward two years, about a month ago while going to counselling I told her what I had done and why. She was very upset but eventually she acknowledged that It was probably the right thing to do at the time as she said she definately did think about taking the kids to her parents. After discussing this again at home, she asked me, “I wonder what would happen if I went to the school and told them the same thing”. We decided to do it to see what the reaction would be.
Well, much to her surprise (not to mine though), they told her that they would do their best to prevent me from picking up the kids. BTW, I should let you know that I am the one who picks up the kids after school when they need to be taken somewhere.
So, the next day when I went to pick up the kids from school for their hockey practise, I was told by the school that I wasn’t allowed to pick them up and the school had been instructed by my wife to now allow it. At this point I called the police and told them what was going on. When they arrived, they asked the school if my wife had a court order preventing me from taking the kids. They actually lied to the police and told them yes she did. The police informed me that I had to leave. I asked the police officer to ask the school for a copy of this non-existent court order, the police officer then asked the school for a copy and they said they didn’t have one. At this point the police officer told them that without a written copy of the order there is nothing the school could do to prevent me from taking the kids.
The next day my wife and I went back to the school and told them the full story and asked them under what authority gave them the right to prevent me from taking the kids. They tried to back track and did a lot of stammering. They asked us to leave when my wife inquired as to why the had lied to the police about the court order when my wife had never mentioned having one.
Perhaps someday , I will be a REAL parent to society , perhaps then, this gender war will be over.
We are doing a series on “The Presumption of Male Guilt” next Thursday. Your story would be *perfect* for this. Could you submit it as a post? Here’s the link to the submission process. Thanks!
http://goodmenproject.com/newsroom/call-for-submissions-presumption-ofmale-guilt/
Great piece Lisa.
The personal and individual level is always affected by the trends and changes in the system and vice versa. It’s easy to see looking backwards in time, but so very hard to dissect in real time. And yes, as I’ve noted before there is so much anxiety in our culture at the moment. We look for things to fight over when much of that tension is out of our hands.
I think there are institutional problems for women AND for men. Different ones to be sure, but nothing is solved by denying they are there. Nothing is solved by fighting over who has it worse. Taking turns rowing and steering…now there is a good idea.
I want it to be that simple. Desperately. My experience says it’s not. I wish I could say it’s just my experience. Desperately. I would be fine to be the last remaining female who felt like she was discriminated against or that the patriarchy was over. Or am I still missing the point?
I’ve written my sentiments on this quite a bit on this, but feel weird posting a bunch of my own links on your page. They’re all under “I am woman hear me roar” on my blog, if anyone’s interested.
Yes, you’re missing the point.
I’m wondering how much internet and other modern communication technology has a role to play here. There’s a lot of anonymous or pseudonymous communication online in which you don’t know the gender of the person that you’re communicating with. Or you could be talking to someone who claims to be one gender but is really another. (Don’t assume I’m actually male just because I’m writing as “That Guy.”) More and more communication takes place in which the gender of your conversation partner is not overtly clear. Today, the names that people choose for their children and for their screen names are often not clearly “male” or “female.” People can choose to identify their gender online or not, so in that way maybe there’s more opportunity to be independent of traditional gender differences.
This doesn’t mean that gender has no influence in online communication, but it seems less immediately relevant or obvious than when talking to people face to face or even over the phone. So, maybe some of the generational difference is due to the nature of our technology.
This is wonderful, and a really terrific break from the onslaught of male mea culpas and chastisements of late. More of these sorts of stories, please.
I’m Sorry, but just because the author hasn’t experienced much discrimination in her life doesn’t mean it’s not happening everywhere else around the world on a daily basis.
It is good that the author is around people who treat all gender equally, but this ‘can’t we all be friends?’ stance is kind of arrogance and ignorant. it is unfair to denounce other men’s and women’s experiences of discrimination (from mild to severe) just because you yourself have not persoanlly been in such sitations. I more than agree that we must look at solutions to end sexisim, but it is a wrong and almost childish thing, to be like “well if I’M not experieincing sexim, then sexism isin’t that huge evrywhere else, can’t we just get along the way I get along with all my friends?” is ignorant.
What’s “arrogant and ignorant” is supposing that your particular issues are everyone else’s, Chocolate. Do you seriously think that any woman who has accomplished as much as Lisa Hickey hasn’t experienced sexism? The point of this essay is that while some women and men are obsessed with their “gender war,” to the exclusion of much else, millions of other men and women are getting on with their lives, raising their kids, being good men and good women, good mothers, good fathers, good members of their community. And they’re doing it with mutual respect, born not only out of being products of their time, but also out of necessity. Seriously, being perpetually angry and griping about the patriarchy 24/7 must be very tiring. A significant number of men and women just don’t have the time to do it 24/7–they’re too busy living their lives.
Thanks Michael for jumping in before I had a chance to. Of course I’ve experienced sexism. Blatant (a former boss once said to me, “Sorry I so difficult to deal with, after years of therapy I discovered how misogynist I was.”) and latent (not being invited to all-male golf outings, because my colleagues “didn’t know I played golf”, a story I’ve written about here.)
So what.
The real change for me is — I’ve been scared of men my whole life. Sometimes terrified. And when I stopped being afraid, and just started connecting with men — as individuals, as humans — my whole life changed for the better. My life was fundamentally different and better. And if that’s ignorant of me, so be it.
There are so many men doing so much good. And I could never have gotten as far as I did in my career without them. The fact that there’s any sort of united front that is “against men” in any way shape or form is just ridiculous.
Yes. This. And, ps, just because I discuss my experiences, doesn’t mean I’m lumping all men into one category. I’m not. I fundamentally see many Good Men with me, and not against me.
Thanks so much, Lisa. I think, too, that there is a presumption of opposition that hurts everyone.
I feel tired out just read about your life.
You’re not still doing all that are you?
“Rich White Het Middle-Aged Ladies Can Have It All® – Just Like They Always Have.”
Yawn.
This is an incredible article. I think men and women have made great strides toward equality. I also think we still have a lot of work to do and that we have to do it together. Both sexes experience discrimination and both sexes enjoy advantages. Can we acknowledge that and try to move forward and build something positive?
Yes, please!