A few days ago, I was reading a terrible article (the link to which I have subsequently and unfortunately lost) about Dating Tips for Short Men. It was, predictably, kind of awful, full of ideas about the right kind of shoe to wear to give yourself that crucial two extra inches. I decided that I could totally write better dating advice for straight short men, so here I am.
1) Congrats, you can filter out women who are terrible.
There are some women who are just horribly unattracted to men that are shorter than them. Oh well, nothing one can do about that, it’s their personal preference and I hope someday they find the basketball player of their dreams. But most of the women who only like tall dudes and won’t even consider a dude who’s below six feet? Are terrible people. They only are attracted to men who perform some bullshit notion of masculinity, even down to things that they have absolutely no control over. Either they haven’t questioned the received notions of gender or, even worse, they questioned them and decided they were totally awesome and definitely something they wanted to pay attention to.
This relates to a concept I like to call the Jerk Detector. A Jerk Detector is a trait about yourself that comes up fairly early on in the dating process that weeds out the jerks from the nice people. If you’re a virgin (or, conversely, a slut) and your partner freaks out about it, they were probably a jerk and you should be happy that you didn’t end up dating them. If you’re a woman or usually taken as one, hairy armpits work great, because anyone who kicks up a fuss about a bit of fur is probably a Grade A Thinks They Have The Right To Control Your Body asshole. (Note for the idiots in the back: not being attracted to people with hairy armpits is not being a jerk; throwing a fit because the person you’re sleeping with/dating has hairy armpits is. It’s their body and their choice.) Now, there are occasionally nice people filtered out by a Jerk Detector, which is unfortunate, but think about all the time you save not dating jerks! Jerk Detectors are very efficient and I would like to recommend them to everyone.
(Note to women: if you only like tall men, you might want to consider whether that’s about your sexual preferences, or just about bullshit gender conditioning that seeped in your brain.)
2) Don’t necessarily assume that tall women won’t want to date you.
Some tall women won’t. Some tall women will. To quote the eternal wisdom of Shit My Dad Says, “out of your league? Son. Let women figure out why they won’t screw you, don’t do it for them.” (This also applies, of course, to men and nonbinaries.) I’m reasonably tall and have a vagina, and yet I’ve dated men who barely come up to my nose. It happens!
3) Be confident in yourself– you’re attractive regardless of your height.
Here’s a secret: even women who don’t care about height will sometimes look for men taller than them. Why? Because some short men consider it emasculating to date women who are taller than them. That’s fucking bullshit. The last thing most women want to do is spend their lives reassuring their partners that, no, really, they have not magically turned into a girl just because they’re dating someone taller than them. Don’t be that guy. Not only is it poisonous to your relationship, but it’s a toxin spreading to the girl’s future relationships and those of the friends she complains to, hence potentially leaving dozens of short men out in the cold. Have some care for the rest of the short-man community.
The best part is that this doesn’t even require being confident in your attractiveness, which I know many of my readers have difficulty with. It just requires knowing, deep in your soul, that if you are in a loving relationship with an attractive, interesting woman who is taller than you, you are still in a loving relationship with an attractive, interesting woman, and that the height difference makes absolutely no difference in your manhood or masculinity whatsoever.
4) Let your girlfriend wear high heels if she wants to.
Some women, inexplicably, like wearing high heels. Some women can’t wear high heels, however, because if they did they’d be taller than their boyfriends. These women like wearing high heels, however, so they solve this problem by only dating men who are not just taller than them but significantly so. This cycle creates incredible trouble for the short men of the world, who are limited to a dating pool of only women who are about three inches shorter than they are, a tiny group. (Heh. Tiny.) Therefore, there is only one solution to this problem: tell your damn girlfriend to wear high heels if she wants you. Not only are heels generally considered sexy (…maybe some women’s fondness for wearing them is less inexplicable), but you know people who are looking at you aren’t going to be like “there’s this short guy with his tall girlfriend, he must not be a real man.” They’re thinking “here’s a short dude who is so balls confident he will be all ‘yep, my girlfriend’s in six-inch heels and I am barely up to her shoulder, I see no problem with this state of affairs.’” And that’s kind of awesome.
5) Don’t… go on dating sites that let women search by height?
Thinking of tips is hard.
About ozyfrantz
Everyone has unconscious biases.
I take issue with #1: Most women, most people, have these quirky little turn offs. Height is a common one, but there are others like “Plays Magic the Gathering” or ” Has neurodivergent body language” that completely kill attraction. Branding someone who does this a “Terrible person” doesn’t do anyone any good. It sets up a situation where women end up , in order to not feel like a “Terrible Person” , have to choose partners that they aren’t attracted to, OR as more usually happens, blow up something else into a “legit” reason for rejection. Which just causes bad feeling all around.
I see what you’re saying here, but the “My preferences just are” vs. “My preferences are shaped by our society and its BS” debate can go on and on in circles forever… Can we just say that if you find your preferences mysteriously line up with what you’ve been told you are supposed to want, it may be worth interrogating them?
However I too would rephrase the point in the post to say that it’s a good thing people who don’t want to date short men, will stay away, because then short guys don’t have to waste time chasing after people who think of them as less-than.
“Height is a common one, but there are others like “Plays Magic the Gathering” or ” Has neurodivergent body language” that completely kill attraction”
Height I completely understand. The “Plays Magic the Gathering” I don’t. Plus in the case where this actually did come up, my feeling was the author made a big show of showing how picky she was. Sometimes I think people reject people for arbitrary reasons to make themselves feel desirable and valuable and to advertise their own superiority. As if to say look at me I am powerful and desireable so I can find arbitrary, stupid reasons to reject you. The psychology of this is not straightforward.
“Most women, most people, have these quirky little turn offs. Height is a common one, but there are others like “Plays Magic the Gathering” or ” Has neurodivergent body language” that completely kill attraction.”
I assume you mention ‘Magic the Gathering’ due to the Jon Finkel scandal and the woman who wrote an article about finding it a deal-breaker that he played. She might have found out that it’s actually a really fun game if she gave it a try. Not only that, but it’s great for making friends, requires a lot of brain power, and if you’re as good as Finkel…you end up traveling the world with it (he’s really good). Finkel is the better for it to not date a woman who is so closed-minded. I had some personal experience with this kind of thing too. A guy I knew said he would never date women who were models. Obviously, this hit me personally because I spent a few years modeling for some extra money (nothing crazy awesome, not a supermodel or anything, but I did have a 6 page spread in pretty cool magazine and did some neat shoots). Sure, I might have some of the stereotypes that go along people who’ve modeled, but there’s a lot more to me. If you’re willing to write me off because of one thing I’ve done before I even met you or some random shallow trait (too short, too tall, wrong race, wrong hair color, wrong sexual history, wrong weight, etc…), it really is a ‘jerk’ detector. I do think ‘terrible person’ is too harsh. You don’t know what goes on in this person’s head and world or what they’ve been through. They could be wonderful people in other aspects of life, but just act really shallowly in this case. Alyssa (of Jon Finkel infamy) might not be a ‘terrible person,’ but in the case, she was certainly acting shallow…or possibly looking for attention because her rant was posted on a site that likely had a good amount of MTG players (although, it could have just been her publishers looking for attention, which they obviously got). I’ve met more than my fair share of MTG players. Each one is an individual and very different from the other…some who are attractive to me, some who are not (duh). By having shallow ‘dealbreakers,’ you’re just limiting yourself. I knew the stereotypes of MTG when I met these players, trust me. If I didn’t give them a chance, I never would have met some incredibly fun and attractive men—as friends or as lovers. I also never would have had the opportunity to expand my horizons and learn a new hobby. Would have sucked for me.
I feel the same way about women who write off short men or men who write off women for some arbitrary trait. The thing is…I truly believe that you should take a closer look at the person and that attraction isn’t as rigid as many people think. Of course you should never date someone you’re not attracted to. That would be awful for both of you and not fair for either party. But understand that sometimes, you don’t always know what will end up being attractive for you, and setting up rigid guidelines will have you miss out. Like the raven haired/blonde example used. Why would you ever make a list? Yeah, I’ve tended to be attracted to ‘nerds’ in my history but I’m not going to write off an awesome football player who makes me feel something. I also find a wide range of people attractive. This gives me more options in the dating pool. I guess I couldn’t help it if I only found tall, white, muscular boys with a full head of hair on top and none on their body attractive. But I’m SO glad that it’s not the case. I also wouldn’t only want to be desired just because I fit in a box of someone’s preferences. You like someone who has all of my characteristics to a T? My hair color, my hobbies, my weight, my skin color, etc. That doesn’t mean that we have chemistry, that we get along, that we have good sex, that we’ll be comfortable around each other, or that we turn each other on. Why not be so rigid and try to get to know the person first and use that as a way to test compatibility or to broaden what you see as attractive. It would suck to be dated because of or despite of a shallow characteristic.
My point is, I’m not willing to write off every woman who rejects me as a lousy human being. There are just too damn many of ‘em.
“But most of the women who only like tall dudes and won’t even consider a dude who’s below six feet? Are terrible people.”
But most of the men who only like tall dudes and won’t even consider a dude regardless of size? Are terrible people.
But most of the Asexual people who only like romance won’t even consider sexual encounters? Are terrible people.
But most of the Lions who only eat Zebras and won’t even consider eating vultures? Terrible Lions.
———
If a woman only gets groin tingles from tall men, I suppose thats what she likes, I don’t see why that makes her terrible.
Doh! should have been:
“But most of the men who only like women won’t even consider a dude regardless of size? Are terrible people.”
I think Ozy was trying to show the difference between a preference and someone who wouldn’t even look at someone who does not fit some rigid standard. For example, I have a preference for men with dark hair. But I am dating someone with light hair. I love my boyfriend’s hair, despite it not being my preference. Conversely, if I flat out refused to date my boyfriend because he did not have naturally dark hair, despite him being quite compatible with me and we have many common interests and he’s a perfectly sweet and caring person and damn if I find anyone sexier than he is, that makes me a terrible person. It means that I haven’t even looked at his personality, or other physical attributes I like, because I can’t get past that DAMMIT HE MUST HAVE DARK HAIR! No other part of him is worth considering because his genetics did not bless him with hair the color of ravens.
If lions refused to eat vultures because they didn’t taste good to the lions, then that is the lion’s preference. If the lions refused to eat vultures because they aren’t ungulate shaped, that makes them terrible lions.
I notice that before you go into asexual lions and what else, the examples you use are of a standard women have for men, and… a standard (gay) men have for men. Something very obvious is missing here.
“But most of the men who only like thin women and won’t even consider her if she’s above a certain weight? [Aren't] terrible people.”
“But most of the men who only like young women and won’t even consider her if she’s above a certain age? [Aren't] terrible people.”
Say it. Say it without adding any qualifiers or other backpedaling. Otherwise, kindly stop being a hypocrite and be quiet. (Actually, for some reason I’m thinking you’re male, in which case I should say “stop trying so hard” rather than “stop being a hypocrite”. But w/e.)
“Say it. Say it without adding any qualifiers or other backpedaling. Otherwise, kindly stop being a hypocrite and be quiet.”
Im not sure if you failed as hard at reading as I did when first posting (did you even look at the correction?).
“(Actually, for some reason I’m thinking you’re male, in which case I should say “stop trying so hard” rather than “stop being a hypocrite”. But w/e.)”
Ah yes, Im a white HET CIS male, dear god look at all the privilege I acknowledge! My arguments about why its wrong to call people terrible for having sexual or romantic preferences makes me terrible!
Your correction says:
“But most of the men who only like women won’t even consider a dude regardless of size? Are terrible people.”
That sounds like you’re saying that men who only like women and won’t consider dudes (of any size, because they’re not gay) aren’t bad people, just as women who enforce strict height minimums are. That’s… really not a parallel comparison at all. You could have meant “dude” in a gender-neutral sense, but if that’s what you meant then frankly your clarification is even more unclear than your original post supposedly was.
Clearly the parallel to height minimums in men is weight maximums in women. If you intended this comparison, you could have made it a LOT clearer. If this is in fact what you meant, I sense a caution and vagueness that weren’t there when you were “absolving” women. This would be merely a softer form of the double standard I alluded to.
Ah yes, Im a white HET CIS male
The vast majority of those who use the word “tingle” seem to be men. That’s what tipped me off.
“Clearly the parallel to height minimums in men is weight maximums in women. If you intended this comparison, you could have made it a LOT clearer. If this is in fact what you meant, I sense a caution and vagueness that weren’t there when you were “absolving” women. This would be merely a softer form of the double standard I alluded to.”
Im not the Pope or anything else in a position to absolve entire genders, sorry. (Not that was my intention in anyway).
I was just pointing out labeling a group of people terrible for having a preference which you may or may not fit is pretty shitty. Just stinks of entitlement and “Nice Guy”ism to me. You may disagree, but I think we are just talking past each other now so I’ll leave it at this.
I m not a tall guy but neither am I the shortest in the bunch, I think the problems of short men with dating only comes from their mindset. If a woman has a problem with dating you because she is taller than you, its her preference, move along and find somebody else who will like you for who you are. Everybody has biases and everybody has insecurities, be confident about your height or lack thereof and also have a thick skin because at the end of the day, you cant win all the time.
I personally am a gay male. I think the point that is trying to be made here, in regard to the “terrible people” thing is that some people will either refuse to give you a chance, so you shouldn’t worry about them (they’re not necessarily terrible people, but they’re not datable people if they won’t consider you when thinking about partners). And the rest is saying that it’s all right to be short. Accept who you are, and don’t try to prove your masculinity like some small, yappy dogs will do. I think that a lot of people find small dogs who yap ALL THE TIME are really annoying…and the little dogs likely do it to prove their masculinity/strength. To nearly everyone else, however, it’s just to be a pain in their backside.
I personally am a gay male, and I am considered tall. I have preferences: SHORT, blonde hair (and a little or very curly and kept short), blue eyes, freckles, dancer/runner’s body, nice guy face, clean shaven, voluptuous bootay…and I can say that only one boy has fit my ideals down to the last point. It’s all right for me to have these as my ideals, since it helps me figure out who I normally will check out. I know what I like to see. Most of the guys I like only have a few of these. I don’t care if they do or not; if they’re hot, they’re hot.
Back to the article…about the armpit hair thing: there is a valid point here. If you’re really interested in someone, expect them to lack perfection; there WILL be something they do which will turn you off or bother you. I HATE whistling, for example, and will cringe as my shoulders tense up to my ears. If I were interested in a guy and he started whistling, if I leave him or freak out over it, I’m just looking for an excuse. It’s ONE thing that I don’t care for, but it’s not a relationship-ender. Sometimes one thing can ruin it, but it has to be serious. For example, I am going to school to be a teacher; if I found out that my partner HAAATES kids, and starts insulting me for my profession choice and talking shit about my class, yeah, I’ll consider showing them the door.
Freaking out on a PARTNER over a MINOR thing about them is petty, and it’s vain. And modifying your behaviour with your partner because of a STUPID cultural norm (guy must be taller than the girl) is petty and vain. Sometimes it can be hard to overcome…but isn’t that why this article was written in the first place? Isn’t it to provide support for guys who think they need to assert their masculinity?
The thing you’re missing here is that some things are more/less important to different people. As long as you do what you can to not hurt the other person when you find out about an issue that you feel is a deal-breaker, you’re still not a terrible person – no matter how trivial other people think that issue may be. If an effort can be made to compromise on the issue, go for it, but otherwise it might be better to just end a relationship instead of staying together and being constantly annoyed by your partner.
For a body hair example, I would never consider dating a woman with a full-on mustache; I hardly think that makes me a terrible person. Going out of my way to make fun of her facial hair, on the other hand, would. Why can I not apply the same exact reasoning to other types of body hair?
I would appreciate it if you suggested, rather than stated, that I’m missing something. The reason I say this is that I in fact agree with you. I know that importance is not universal. In fact, I’m glad it’s not.
My point with it is that if one does not find their partner’s flaw to be a true deal-breaker, like if one has a phobia of body hair and the other refuses to shave, and there is no way to compromise, of course the relationship should end! But I’m saying that, for example, if I don’t like it when people make noises when they’re eating, and my partner does it, if I freak out and use it as the basis for ending the relationship, I think it had better drive me absolutely insane. If I can deal with it, even if it annoys me, I should make the effort if I think my partner is special. Not giving my partner a chance or making no effort to calm my own emotions makes it vain.
It’s not terrible to rule people out before getting to know them. You might lose some gems, but you know what you like, and you know what you dislike. Why go for someone who clearly does/has things you don’t like? I get it. But if you’re dating someone, and you discover something about them that you dislike, but don’t hate, and you want to end the relationship immediately, I think that it’s important to look at why you want to end it. Are you really upset that they’re not perfect? That’ not fair.
I’m not sure if I’ve done the best job of showing my perspective…I would like to think that it is very reasonable. I was surprised to read that I was suggesting that people hold things to a different level of importance. It would seem that I haven’t written precisely how I feel, but I really was trying to show that my example of a relationship-ender would likely different from others´, whilst also arguing that I don’t think it’s right to end a relationship over something small (which will be different for different people).
Eh, I’m only 5’7, but I don’t particularly see the point in calling women who only want to date men over 6 foot tall horrible. They’re only really hurting themselves (they’re limiting themselves to a fairly shallow pool of men, and most of them won’t be attractive enough to actually compete for them). Plus, to be honest, I don’t want to date taller women. It won’t look right when we stand together.
And seriously, stay away from dating sites. The men who frequent them tend to look at online as just another hunting grounds. But the women on those sites are usually the kind of women who shot down every man who wanted to be with them (the ones willing to hit on them in real life), and instead cling to some fantasy ideal they have no hope of landing in the real world. To put it bluntly, women who frequent online dating sites are closer in type to men who order up mail-order brides than they are to the men who frequent online dating sites.
@Soullite- I’m a woman who is looking for a relationship with a man and having trouble finding one, and I am currently considering using dating sites to help. I was saddened to read what you say about women who use dating sites, because it probably comes from your personal experience. But then I wondered if you would consider me one of those women who turns down men who hit on them in real life in favour of a ‘fantasy ideal’. In the past 6 months I have had two offers of relationships from male friends, but turned them down because I didn’t feel that way about them, and didn’t think we would be compatible. (I had also dated one a few years ago and that didn’t work out.) I did this not because of some ‘fantasy ideal (though believe me, I know that women’s magazines are still pushing the idea of ‘the one’ to death, and I think it’s a terrible thing to aspire to) but because I was not attracted to them. I truly believe that entering into a relationship with either of them purely for the sake of being in a relationship would have been wrong, if I could not reciprocate their feelings. Does this mean I have no right to look for a relationship with someone else? I hope not.
Are you sure you are not judging these women on the dating sites too soon? If they describe their ‘ideal man’ on the site, then you may find it’s more of a ‘these are some things I’m attracted to but who knows what could happen’ rather than a ‘I must find a man who fits all these pointers!’ And indeed, anyone who is actually that fussy will probably find herself filtered out by a lot of people’s jerk filters, but I doubt they are the majority of women who use dating sites. Women quite often have difficulty finding someone they would be happy with in a relationship too, y’know.
My experience with online dating is that, if a woman is attractive and photogenic and has a thick-skin (i.e. can deal with the douchebags without getting discouraged) that it can be quite successful for them. For men, the time investment is pretty extreme because they are the ones that have to send out the cold e-mails (which can be very time consuming) and hope for a response, with your average response rate being 2-5 %. I think my response rate is much higher, maybe 25 %, but that’s because I’m extremely selective and only send out an email every two months or so.
The basic problem with online dating is that selection is almost purely the man chasing the woman, and there’s many more men than women. The dating sites won’t release the numbers, but it’s probably about 2:1 to 4:1. So if there’s 5 women who are ’10s’ and 20 men who are ’10s’, you can see that the men who are ’10s’ are successfully connecting mostly with the ’9s’, and that ‘settling’ by men cascades down the line. So when you get to the bulk of the population, you get women who are ’6s’ being pursued by men who are ’8s’ and that just doesn’t work out in real-life when there’s the coffee date and the guy isn’t attracted. There’s lots and lots of woman who can get dates online but can’t get a relationship because the nature of the game creates unrealistic expectations, like a guy who goes to yoga classes (::points at self::).
… or you could try not reducing people to their number ratings and see how that goes for you? Honestly, that’s just gross.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/5887567/Tall-men-earn-more-than-shorter-colleagues-research-claims..html
I wonder if the bias is because shorter men tend to have lower incomes….
link didn’t come out right….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/5887567/Tall-men-earn-more-than-shorter-colleagues-research-claims..html
It’s part of a society-wide, systemic height discrimination. You can’t divorce one from the other.
link still didn’t come out right-
title is “Tall men earn more than shorter colleagues, research claims.”
article is at telegraph.co/uk
Hey Ozy,
I’m woman just under six feet tall with a (non-exclusive) preference for tall-ish men. I know that a good chunk of this preference probably does come from social conditioning, but acknowledging that doesn’t magically erase it. We all grew up swimming in a sea of restrictive gender expectations, and it’s a constant process to acknowledge, examine, and combat these deeply ingrained ideas of what men and women should be. Such biases can be pretty hard to get rid of, especially when you grow up hearing that women should be small and delicate, but if you’re unlucky enough to end up an overgrown oaf of a woman, for god’s sake don’t emphasize your embarrassing size by being with a shorter man. I do question my received notions of gender, but it sucks to hear I’m a terrible person because they do still have a bit of influence over me.
That said, I’ve been told by a lot of men (and a handful of women) that my height makes me unattractive and undateable. These biases definitely go both ways! It’s pretty hard to get yourself in the “height doesn’t matter” headspace when you’re constantly being told it does.
Yep, it definitely does go both ways.
And I tried to write that point acknowledging both that lots of people have a legitimate preference for taller men, and that a *loooooot* of the people who have a preference for taller men have one rooted in unquestioned kyriarchal fuckery. Apparently I didn’t make the first bit clear enough.
I think it can be pretty hard to parse out where our preferences come from, though. If I’m going to some kind of theoretical dating event where I can choose to mingle with either a group of tall men or a group of short men, do I choose the former because of a) kyriarchal fuckery; b) legitimate preference; or c) a lower likelihood of rejection/negging from taller dudes? It’s probably a little bit of all these things, but I’m honestly not sure how I could ever separate them out.
“unquestioned kyriarchal fuckery.”
And now I’ve found my newest favorite phrase. Thanks! : – )
I think the point about many women wanting to wear high heels is a very good one. It’s a very common sentiment, from what I understand. For some women, whether it’s gender programming or not, there is something sexually reassuring about wearing high heels and still being shorter than a man, because in their sense of themselves, wearing high heels is especially feminine and being shorter than a man also feels very feminine. (The way *they* see feminine, of course.)
I suspect part of this high-heels issue is that for many women being a tall woman is like being a short man, in terms of feeling like you’re at a disadvantage in the dating world. I wonder if it could be a childhood/adolescence issue, like a long-term reaction to girls maturing a little faster than boys. Perhaps seeking out taller men is a way to never go back to the days of being an awkward teenage girl slow-dancing with boys who are shorter and less further along in puberty. Maybe for many women being taller than your date is too reminiscent of seventh grade?
Many women also have a special fondness for having a sex partner who is taller/bigger than she is. That doesn’t mean it’s an exclusive preference, but it does seem to be pretty common. On some level this is not just about walking hand-in-hand or ballroom dancing, it’s about other physical match-ups….
You seem to be trying to have it both ways. You’re willing to smear an anonymous majority, but anybody who actually has this preference can be written off as one of the few who isn’t a terrible person, for no adequately explained reason except that you don’t want to confront them.
Reading the responses, this article seems to have touched a lot of nerves, but I generally agree with the gist of the advice. As a 5’8″ guy who had dated several women over six feet (and some under five feet, I didn’t discriminate), I came to find most of what is written here to be true. While women (and men) focusing primarily on physical qualities aren’t terrible people, they are more likely to attract those who are also focusing on those kind of qualities. But love, it seems, is about something deeper. To paraphrase Joseph Campbell, “We must be willing to let go of the love we had planned to make room for the love that’s waiting for us.” True love often comes in forms we don’t expect. And the more they challenge us to move outside our comfort zone, often the stronger that bond will be.
I agree with most of the points here, except for number five. Believe it or not, dating sites that allow height searches are one of the easiest places to find someone not caught up on height. Because you will only be contacted by those who haven’t set that up as a filter–either digitally or mentally. For those meetings that do take place in person, yes, confidence is key. There is something really sexy about someone who knows what they want and doesn’t care about society’s silly mores in order to get it.
I posted your article here: http://www.facebook.com/SynergyForSingles as I felt it’s in line with the theme of synergistic love which breaks superficial boundaries. Thanks for sharing your insight and having the confidence to write a better article than the one you saw. I’m sure it was!
Believe it or not, dating sites that allow height searches are one of the easiest places to find someone not caught up on height. Because you will only be contacted by those who haven’t set that up as a filter–either digitally or mentally.
This is a good point. I’d probably have a good first impression of any man who didn’t lie about his height on dating sites, too.
Just a random observation regarding the height limit. Here (in Germany) the height preference you mostly hear is at least 1,8m. I think, that shows people have a thing for round numbers and height limits are somewhat arbitrary. In reality you can’t really tell if someone is 180cm or 183cm. It only becomes a thing when you can quickly filter for candidates on online dating sites.
I know what you mean. As a 5’9” man, I notice that 5’10” is a common cut-off point. (Well, aside from those who just say 6′.) Something about those double digits serves as a psychological anchor point. Luckily in real life, the difference is very difficult to spot. But I’m really not willing to lie, so I avoid online dating. I wonder, though, if that’s just not easy for me to say, because as I get older my social life may gradually recede and I may have to turn online. Will I say, “hey, I’m 5’10” in the morning”? Lol.
It’s the same thing with weight. Many men may claim they want someone 130 lb or less, whatever, but I see them drooling over women who I know for a fact are at least 20 lb. heavier than that. Numbers can be deceptive. What matters is presentation.
There was a joke in a movie I saw about a guy named Tiny Jim (I think it was?). He was 5’9”, so it didn’t seem right… but he wasn’t nearly big enough for it to be “one of those ironic things”. So it just confused the main characters. That’s me, lol.
I appreciate the intent behind the OP, but I have to wonder something. I love points (2) to (5), but I have an issue with (1).
The armpit hair example is weak; it’s a choice, unlike shortness/fatness, easily reversible if necessary, and it can be easily concealed up until well into the relationship, which means that it’s rare to be summarily rejected on sight for it. What, rather, is the OP’s opinion on Spanx? Is it that they’re terrible and that women should not wear them? Should the more zaftig women take no measures to hide their figures because it allows them to filter out the men who are terrible? (For those who don’t know, Spanx is a full-length undergarment pantyhose used to conceal fat.) I doubt anyone here is a fan of heightening soles/shoes nor wears them (just as I bet no one here actually wears Spanx), but I can’t see what makes them different from Spanx – or, to a lesser extent, great amounts of makeup, all of which can be regarded as deceptive. Well, I can see potential hypocrisy, but not much else.
Self-acceptance is laudable and great on an individual basis, but I’m suspicious if self-acceptance alone is what’s prescribed for men who suffer or find themselves low on society’s status chain due to not meeting gendered expectations. Besides implying that the problem is wholly or mostly internal (so what, are these men imagining things?), it wouldn’t be considered sufficient for likewise women.
@mayfly,
Of course. People’s sex lives are their own business, and I’m sorry you got guff for being tall growing up. Men often feel the same way you do with regards to being attracted to slimmer women, younger women, women with too much muscles, etc. (Personally, I like curvier women than most of my friends do, but probably still slim overall. As long as they’re not too much older or younger, I don’t care, though childbearing years left may be a concern if and when I choose to get married. I prefer toned but must admit bulgy muscles are a turn-off for me.) These can’t be erased overnight and we’re not going to get anywhere badgering people about the way their libidos work. That they feel a bit of a niggle, that something’s just a bit wrong, should be considered a victory, and hopefully they’ll show that in other ways in life, that across society will add up one day toward real change.
But how do you feel about men who’d say exactly what you said (“acknowleding it doesn’t magically erase it”, etc.) regarding fat, age, or muscles? Would you feel as if that’s not good enough? Or would you feel that even if those men individually can do what they want, society as a whole should change so that their prejudices be lessened or erased over time? If so, do you think that distaste for short men is something that should be lessened or erased over time? Why or why not? I’m genuinely curious.
Here’s a tip: work out and buff up. A tall slender guy can be elegant, but a short slender guy is a shrimp.
“Here’s a tip: work out and buff up. A tall slender guy can be elegant, but a short slender guy is a shrimp.”
Not true. Seth Green is 5’4″, thin, and one of the sexiest celebrities out there.
In my experience, a really tall woman is going to feel more comfortable with a really short man than one who’s just an inch or two shorter.
FWIW, I’m 5’10 1/2″.
howabout this….
tall women who defy the stereotype of wanting a taller man should approach shorter men and ask them out….
heck, why limit this to tall women, all women should ask men out, if the “risky initiatives” of approach were split 50/50-many of the ethical problems of PUA would dissappear. It wouldn’t be that someone of either gender wouldn’t make a bad approach but that the moral and ethical burden would be shared equally between men and women. Kay Hymowitz could start writing “Woman Up” articles….
well, since we don’t live in this utopia, I don’t blame a male who faces massive rejection who decides to “opt out” of the whole dating thing. Some guys will be happy MGTOW’s who develop really cool hobbies and don’t place their value on the approval of women.
HOW ABOUT we all try to be nice and respectful to other human beings, even if we’re not sexually attracted to them? And how everyone dates who they want and we all try not to say stupid things about what we personally think about their looks because it’s not any of our business?
When I was dating my husband and took him home to meet my family, after he left my mom’s response was, “Well [family name] sure doesn’t grow them very tall, do they?
Really? I bring home a super awesome guy who I’m head over heels for and all you can say is, “gosh he’s kind of short?” 11 years later and that memory still gets on my nerves. If your brother or son brought home a girl, would people say, “You couldn’t find someone a little thinner, huh?”
The fuck is wrong with people? Just be nice and if you can’t say anything nice don’t say anything at all because it’s none of your business.
In regards to #4.
I like wearing high heels because it’s an instant confidence booster. I don’t know why or how this came to be, but whatever works, right? I stand up straighter, strut more, and feel sexier and prettier. I don’t care if taller than my man when wearing heels. I do care about him being cool with me wearing heels. That’s my explanation at least.
*if I’m taller than my man
As a taller woman (5’9″) I have to admit that I do prefer mencwho are at least a coupke inches taller than me. However I have dated men who are my height or shorter. One observation I’ve made is that when shorter men want to date me, they see me as a novelty. They wouldn’t really want to be in a long term relationship with a taller woman. I think both men and women may perceive a certain physical awkwardness where the woman is taller. It is awkward walking hand in hand, it’s awkward kissing standing up, it is awkward having sex. Maybe this is because of f-ed gender expectations but it is hard for the woman not to feel like a big, unsexy oaf, as another commenter said, and possibly hard for the man to see himself as manly. Of course I’n generalizing but I’m describing my own experiences. When I was in a long term relationship for awhile with a guy who was just my height, I became more paranoid than usual about my weight; I really started obsessing about it and fearing I would be tok “big.” His feelings about his height were also exaggerated. In the long run, it didn’t work out (tho not just for that reason)
I don’t think any guy’s ideal woman is talker than him and while shorter men may ask out taller women, as I’ve said, I think sonetimes its just a novelty attraction not a real attraction as in “she’s the one.” Again, I know I’m generalizing. Obviously there can be exceptions. But doesn’t a man want to be with a woman who he can easily put his arm around and kiss without standing on his toes?
This makes it tough for taller women who end up with a smaller pool of men as potential partners. We may still get dates but I think we are less likely to be viewed as long term girlfriend material by shorter men, as we are not their physical ideal.
You’re setting up a false dichotomy. You can be genuinely attracted to somebody without thinking of them as “the one”.
Agreed, but what I meant is that if you are looking for people who you might have a long term relationship with, you have to rule out certain people because you know will never lead anywhere ultimately.
Been married for 42 years to a guy shorter than I am. Thank goodness neither of us was bothered by each other’s height, although I did have friends who were aghast that I’d date someone shorter than I. He is definitely one of the best human beings I’ve ever known and he still turns me on.
Let me guess, “short” but still tall enough, like over 5’5? SMH…
I’m a very tall (6’1″) woman and I’ve been with my boyfriend, who’s 5’6″, for almost two years. When we walk down the street together in New York City, he actually occasionally gets high fives from random dudes. Now, I find this rude and irritating in the same sense that I find cat-calling rude and irritating, but it does seem like evidence that people aren’t going to look down on you for dating taller. Oh, and I’m also a fan of wearing heels, including my favorite six-inch platforms.