Noah and I wrote a book! The first chapter is here! You should go read it.
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[Manatee that says “just take things one step at a time, you are doing a great job.”]
This is the sort of situation that calls for Calming Manatee!
Gah. Freaking out on Twitter about how much everyone hates the chapter counts as promotion, right?
I thought the chapter was excellent. Really a great summation of all the thoughts and themes I’ve seen emerge from NSWATM. But maybe it was a bit all-at-once for some people? Maybe calming manatee could write a preface?
I feel almost like an internet necromancer linking to this since it is already 3 days old, but I came across a community posting on feministing that made part of me cry: http://community.feministing.com/2012/07/08/sunday-feminist-fuck-you-david-brooks/ Ugh… Invert the genders and keep the logic you would get something that reads “Women are having issues in school, but this is irrelevant when compared to the fact that US K-12 schools in general fall far behind the rest of the civilized world.” I should try to be nicer to that blogger, they might be new, and might not realize that they are trivializing a lot… Read more »
Well it appears he/she just wants to focus on the worst issues ever, then by that logic shouldn’t he/she ignore all of the issues western women face and focus on the terrible treatment of the women in some areas of the world where they are in extreme danger? Hell even the men in some places are in more danger than the ALL of the men n women in other countries. Do we ignore breast cancer research to focus on heart disease because it’s the biggest killer? Do we ignore racial issues because they’re numbers are small compared to the issues… Read more »
Just want to thank you for the manatee! It has brought so much joy to my loved ones in the last few days.
I didn’t mind it much, just some generalizations didn’t really seem helpful. Good work none the less.
As a side note, was there a moderation wave recently on that article? A whole bunch of comments seemed to disappear in one hit?
Also any idea how to get the NSWATM and GMP seperated into 2 separate RSS feeds? They’re mixed into one for me.
Congrats on the book! Calming Manatee reminds me of Boggle the Owl – http://bogglelovesyou.tumblr.com/ And here’s some recent social science research: “‘whether a domestic traditionalist can also be an organizational egalitarian?’ The answer we posit is ‘no.'” Researchers found after a series of four studies that “husbands embedded in traditional and neo-traditional marriages (relative to husbands embedded in modern ones) exhibit attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors that undermine the role of women in the workplace.” “We found that employed husbands in traditional marriages, compared to those in modern marriages, tend to (a) view the presence of women in the workplace unfavorably,… Read more »
“‘whether a domestic traditionalist can also be an organizational egalitarian?’ The answer we posit is ‘no.’”
There is no way this isn’t an over generalization. I’m sure you can find at least one guy with a stay at home wife, who is an “organizational egalitarian.”
All they really conclude in the study is that men in traditional marriages are more likely to be sexist, which is about as obvious a conclusion as there can be. Without some numbers to show that it’s a pervasive problem within traditional marriages, all they’re saying is that >50% of married men who have a negative view of women in the workplace have a wife that doesn’t work. How is this news? To elaborate (again assuming the study has no numerical data to show us), take a hypothetical study with 1,000,000 men, 500,000 in modern marriages and 500,000 in traditional… Read more »
I agree with the first point you’re making — that it shouldn’t surprise us that working men with stay-at-home wives exhibit more sexist attitudes than men whose wives work. But as for the rest, I’m posting because I don’t like to see science misunderstood or misused by anyone, especially by people I hope will be progressive allies, so I’m hoping I can correct a misunderstanding. Brace yourself for a little Stat 101! 😀 Even when evidence points towards the existence of some kind of pattern, science strives not to find patterns where none exist. To that end, good science always… Read more »
1) My hypothetical/analogy was just for exaggeration to show that even if the numbers of sexist men in total are small, you can still have more sexist men in traditional marriages (which is the conclusion that the study’s data actually shows). 2) I have 0 problems with the actual science/statistics of the study itself. I’m sorry you went to all that trouble to convince me, though I’m sure your post will be useful to others looking into this issue. 3) My problem is with the language used by the authors in their conclusion (actually in the Abstract section of the… Read more »
Numbering that comment made more sense when it was 5 lines long and had a preface; now it just seems snarky. Don’t read too much into it.
I was glad to learn that the quote Rob Allen gave wasn’t from the study authors themselves, though it was inspiration. I can at least believe that the authors didn’t intentionally misrepresent their study.
I am Shocked, SHOCKED, to hear that sexist men are unlikely to be embedded in non-traditional marriages.
Hah, exactly. A man who values the idea of seperate spheres for men & women is likely to have a stay at home wife, and also likely to have some less than egalitarian ideas about women in the workplace.
Congrats, Noah and Ozy!
Quick note that may help you panic less – plenty of people who read stuff they agree with (or even just don’t vehemently disagree with) won’t post comments, simply because it seems like the vacuous “me too!” usenet posts that invariably came from AOLers.