TW here for graphic description of (consensual) violent sex. Relatedly, this post is not exactly SFW.
So, on the Julian Assange case. I keep seeing people on the internet scoffing at the idea that he’s accused of using force on someone, when all he did was have standard, boring missionary-position sex. “I do that all the time!” they say or think. “Obviously it’s all trumped up baloney. After all, how can that be forceful?”
It can. Believe me. How do I know? I’ve had that sex.
I’m a kinky motherfucker. I identify as a switch, meaning I enjoy taking both a top and a bottom role. I also enjoy D/s (dominance and submission), and enjoy both roles there. I have a boyfriend who shares my interests — he’s taller than me, but also lighter.
When we have kinky sex, it’s often in missionary. He’s the dominant partner. He’s aggressive, forceful. He usually holds my hands over my head, using the weight of his body to keep them pinned to the mattress while the other hand goes wherever he wants to put it. Sometimes he lets my hands go, with the understanding that I’ll keep them there or he’ll hit me, grab them, and roughly put them back. I can’t move very much, and if I try, it’s likely to end up with my movement more restricted. Even though he’s lighter than I am, he’s in a far more advantageous position — the missionary position is not very far from wrestling’s mount, and he can easily start choking me with his hands or forearm.
And then sometimes we have vanilla sex in missionary. Neither of us is dominant. The sex is caring, collaborative. My hands are free to explore his body or provide leverage against the bed. I can move as I like, pushing against him or angling for a better position. While physically, his position is the same, his attitude is completely different, and I forget that he could hold me down if he wanted to.
Lastly, while I’ve never done it, missionary sex can be kinky/forceful in the *other* direction, with the man submissive (that link is so very NSFW). There are a lot of options here, that picture covers only some of them.
Context is key. There is no sex position or sex act which is inherently dominant, submissive, or neutral. None. The characterization of every single sex act depends on context, a context which comes from a person’s history and the relationship between them and their partner. This is where a number of feminists and BDSM enthusiasts have gone wrong, positioning some things (being the penetrative partner, receiving oral sex) as always dominant, and their complement as always submissive. This, too, is where people go wrong when talking about Assange — just because you have never had missionary sex that was violent or forceful doesn’t mean that nobody has, that it can’t happen. Did it? I don’t know, and I hope an impartial court decides. But that’s not the point. The point is that it’s possible, and sex exists outside the scripts which our culture has written for it.
I already did, aliarasthedaydreamer.
For the record, it’s really annoying to be told to do what you’re already doing.
@typhonblue: I really had no way to know that. But thank you.
Hmm… you didn’t get that impression from my last post on this side topic?
Putting aside judgement on the innocence or guilt of Assange, one of the things that I’ve heard comments about was that it must have been rape because when he started out they were asleep, and somebody can’t give consent when they’re not conscious. Which is an assumption I find really problematic, because I’ve been woken up by sex before and it was something I very much wanted and enjoyed. So not big on the idea of that being put on some kind of “no go” list. That said, where what is alleged to have taken place crossed the line is that Assange woke his partner up with unprotected penetration, something that she had specifically ruled out when they were together the night before. So the presumption of non-consent to unprotected sex should have been held to.
The thing is, you can’t know — really, really can’t know whether or not someone would like being woken up to sex if you haven’t talked about it yet, or if you don’t get them awake enough to consent first. It’s– they’re asleep. They went to sleep with you for sleep, not for more sex, and might not even be expecting to have more sex with you today.
Iamcuriouslyblue: Good for you that you enjoyed it, I did not. I hope you’re not arguing that I am acceptable collateral damage since _you_ enjoyed being woken up by sex?
That hopefully unintentional implication that I should’ve enjoyed it (or at least not have the right to call it for what it was) did upset me.
The way of keeping that kind of sex of the “no go” list for your partner and you is to explicitly give advance consent for this to your partner.
@iam: Lucky for you, but you can’t assume that most people want that.
If you do, you arrange it beforehand, you don’t wait for them to rape you.
No, my “implication” is not that anybody should suck up and enjoy anything. In terms of “collateral damage”, I think holding all people at all times to lowest common denominator restrictive standards of other people sounds like “collateral damage” to me. And, for fuck sake. Tamen and Brian, your comments are the very death of nuance and I won’t be responding to them further.
x
“And, for fuck sake. Tamen and Brian, your comments are the very death of nuance and I won’t be responding to them further.” Actually, didn’t mean to single anybody out except to say all three responses were ham-fisted and in several cases, rude.
Strange that, I thought it was you who were un-nuanced since you said you didn’t want sex with sleeping partner to be on a “no-go” list without qualifying the statement with any pre-arranged consent.
I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and opened up for the possibility that that wasn’t your intention and that the omission of the pre-arranged explicit consent was a just mistake from you or that you thought that was so self-evident that you omitted it for that reason.
In fact you mentioned the Assange case and seemed to protest that him starting to have “surprise sex” as some pundits have called it with the sleeping woman is called rape. Since she since have reported him to the police it is more likely than not that no such explicit pre-arranged consent were given
.
I lost my virginity to a woman who took it upon herself to mount me while I was asleep – I woke up with me being inside her and I didn’t want that and hadn’t given any pre-arranged consent allowing her to do that to me. I note that me not wanting others to experience the same and saying that one shouldn’t have sex with a sleeping partner without getting consent in advance is according to you a case of holding all people at all times to lowest common denominator restrictive standards of other people and that that would even make you collateral damage.
I am baffled that you seem so hurt over the pushback against the notion that initiation sex with someone who sleeps without getting explicit consent in advance is ok. It already is considered rape by law in many jurisdictions and here in Norway one woman have been convicted for rape as she performed oral sex on a sleeping man after a party so it is not that my position is a very radical one.
Well, actually not super-enthused over Nordic countries trends in this area of law, thank you very much. Sweden now is pushing for a law in which the state can step in and prosecute a sexual encounter to be “sexual exploitation” even when both parties were clearly consenting.
Now as to the specifics, you’re talking about situations where there had been no prior sexual relationship at all and somebody just sprung sex on a somebody else while they were sleeping. Seriously not OK. As opposed to the very different situation I’m talking about where we were already partners and sleeping together. And she made a very good guess that this would be something I’d enjoy. But, hey, I guess with the absence of long, protracted negotiations in advance, that defaults to rape, right?
The other matter about this issue. I’m talking about regular *sleep* here, not being passed out drunk. The level of sleep you can easily awaken from and make your wishes known whether you’re being touched in a way you don’t like, or simply don’t have enough bed space.
Note that I think “enthusiastic consent” is a great concept to aspire to, as the pleasure of all partners really should be a concern for everybody involved. However, I think the concept is being made sadly unappealing those advocates who make it a micromanaging and authoritarian set of rules that everybody must abide by in their sexual practice or be a rapist by default.
@ Iamacuriousblue
“And she made a very good guess that this would be something I’d enjoy. But, hey, I guess with the absence of long, protracted negotiations in advance, that defaults to rape, right?”
Sexual encounters in established relationships work along very different consent lines then one-night stands or hookups. Because people can make educated guesses about what the other person wants barring abusive relationships.
I have to wonder why anyone would consider the following two exchanges for “long, protracted negotiations”:
1) A: I’d like to be waken up by sex and you have carte blanche to do so.
B: Ok/I don’t feel comfortable doing that.
2) A: Would you like to be waken up by sex sometime/tomorrow?
B: Yes/No
And since someone mentioned the Assange case as an example I must point out that mr. Assange was not in an established relationship with that girl. I firmly believe that having sex with someone the night before is not in itself ground enough to assume that they would like to be waken by sex and that if you’re mistaken in your guess then you are responsible for the pain you’ve caused and you may very well be at risk for prosecution.
Communication and honestly is paramount in thise cases.
I dont belive the good old missionary is a abusive position, more than any other. Is doggy style just as abuse than the missionary? is a 69 also abusive? everything can be abusive, but it doesent mean they are, but they can. Without consent everything is abusive both coming from a man or a woman. Who does it and what postition are used is purely cosmetic. The real issue is there is consent or not?
Consent require communication and again honestly. Dont say yes if you mean no, and dont say no if you mean yes. Nobody is a mind reader, so dont expect people to know your mind.
Finally, imagine, you are sleeping with Master Yoda. And in the middle of the night he wakes you up and tell you: remember my dear padawan to f*ck me…..and you answer yes master (jumps on him) then he adds NOT!……….meanwhile you did it. This sound like a joke, but situation like this happens all the time (offcourse not with master yoda) and not because people are malevolent or evil minded (some maybe are…but not everybody) but simply because people dont understand each other.
Another situation whery difficoult to manage, is sex during sleep. Several times I wake up and found my gf mounting me. I didnt give consent. And she reacts whit surprise….are you kidding me? you did this and that ect. And I have no memories about this. Off course not everynight.
But how to cope with sleepsex? what to do in thise situations?