Trigger warning for mentions of rape, and NSFW warning for pictures of shirtless people.
Occasionally, I ask people to explain things. My latest project has been asking people to explain why women can’t take their shirts off in public. Barring circular answers (“it’s obscene!” “it’s just not appropriate”) and irrelevancies (“hubba hubba”), the answers have mostly been in two groups:
1) “Men aren’t attractive the same way women are.”
2) “There are some men who will, you know, take that as an invitation…”
To both of which I say: bullSHIT.
I am pansexual, which basically means I have attraction superpowers. I like everyone! (And/or cooking implements.) As a pansexual, I will be pleased to inform you that she:
Amanda Fucking Palmer, naked, with words written on her.
and he:
Zach Galiafwhatever, sporting a somewhat distressing beard and only half a shirt.
Are both people I feel a quite intense physical attraction to upon looking at their shirtless pictures. And here’s the thing: I am not any less attracted to the man than I am to the woman! They are both attractive! I would like to bang both of them! There is no qualitative difference between my attraction to them, unless you count my assiduous avoidance of The Hangover so I will continue to want to bang Mr. Galiafwhatever. Our culture seems to have this bizarre idea that people would want to have sex with Ms. Fucking Palmer because tits, and people would want to have sex with Mr. Galiafwhatever because he’s funny. Nope. I want to bang them both because they’re fucksexy.
What’s more, nearly all straight women experience the same pleasurable groinal feelings as I do when they look at men. Perhaps not Mr. Galiafwhatever, though. Perhaps they prefer:
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William Beckett, skinny prettyboy!
Vin Diesel, the world’s most well-muscled D&D player!
Daniel Dae Kim, who was in Lost or something oh who cares HE IS THE SEXIEST.
Or something else! The world of what turns women on is very diverse and very inadequately represented by Google Image Search, insofar as GIS is under the impression that “hot guy” means “hairless muscular white dude,” someone Photoshopped “calling Slimfast and 24-hour-fitness, Help!!!” on David Krumholtz’s perfectly attractive if somewhat chubby body, and neither Masi Oka nor Peter Dinklage nor Bill Nighy have apparently taken their shirts off in public.
Alan Rickman has, but he is quite shy and hiding behind a Grecian statue.
My point being! Straight and bi women like men’s bodies! The only reason that (1) doesn’t apply to men is that we believe that women are incapable of attraction and men are incapable of being attractive, which I hope I have adequately disproved with my collection of shirtless men of assorted body types.
(2) is horrifically sexist, of course, because as shocking as it seems the vast majority of men are capable of being turned on and enjoying it, without responding with “I must rape you you sexy person!” Most rapists are motivated by power and revenge, not sexual arousal, and deliberately select victims who are vulnerable and incapable of fighting back and defending themselves. There are plenty of shirtless people who can defend themselves! But even if you grant this “male sexuality is inherently sexist” notion, which is misandric on the face of it, what about gay dudes? You’d think they’d be running about the place raping every man who takes his shirt off when playing basketball.
Hrm. Maybe that’s why homophobes are scared of gay dudes.
Basically, it’s hot out, and I want to be able to take my shirt off when I’m all sweaty even though I have boobs, and also post lots of pictures of shirtless men. This is clearly the most important frontier of gender activism.
It’s exactly this reasoning why I think just the opposite. The reason for covering ourselves is sex. While I think we can go without constantly raping each other that doesn’t stop us from fantasizing about each other. We do it even when we can’t see what the other person looks like. But at least if you don’t know what they actually look like you can’t actually fantasize about them naked. It’s like Photoshopping a woman’s head onto another woman’s body. Yeah they look naked but you still have no clue what they actually look like. It’s not the same as… Read more »
http://amandapalmer.net/videos/want-it-back-nsfw-uncensored-version-2/
I feel like I’m such a prude for saying this, but I would prefer if women weren’t allowed to go topless in public. I’d be okay if men couldn’t take of their shirts as well. I feel like some parts of the body are for only those you are intimate with. However, my feelings on this stem from my extreme insecurity and I would feel jealous every time my man and I went out in public and he stared at another topless woman. Plus I wouldn’t want to go topless because gravity is not my friend. I believe there should… Read more »
Just the other day I was reading about neural tissue engineering and nerve regeneration in the peripheral nervous system . One of the new-ish techniques in this field involves replacing damaged efferent neurons with afferent neurons to restore (limited) motor functionality. The fascinating thing to me is that the afferent neuron still “terminates” in the same area of the brain, requiring our neural pathways to reorganize to a certain extent to relearn control of the affected muscle. All of the discussion about whether female nipples are “sexual” or not, or have some unique sexual response that male nipples do not,… Read more »
As a man who has had breasts since he was twelve, I find going topless very uncomfortable. In general I feel there’s enough body policing to go around.
It women started going shirtless as frequently as men, the “sexual” aspect of the display would certainly wear off. A big reason why people are so attracted to breasts is because they don’t get to see them often enough in a non-sexual context … kind of like feet, belly buttons, or long hair in some other cultures.
It’s incredibly unfair to create a hostile environment and then insist that people comply with the rules for their own protection.
I totally agree with this. I’ve pointed out elsewhere that yeah, as a lesbian I’m totally ‘guilty’ of viewing breasts as sexual body parts (just like I’m sure straight/bi women and gay/bi men view men’s chests as sexual body parts, I’m sure). And I’ve definitely had to catch myself from staring at a woman’s breasts a few times…especially when I was sort of just realizing I was actually attracted to women.
But I definitely agree that breasts aren’t inherently more sexual than a man’s chest…our culture has just framed them as such.
@HeatherN: “But I definitely agree that breasts aren’t inherently more sexual than a man’s chest…”
I think they are.
Since they’re used (some say “meant”) for breastfeeding, they have an inherently sexual quality. I think it’s biological and built-in.
The fact that both gender’s genitalia are hidden, but just female’s chest have to be covered, is telling. Breasts have a huge emotional power.
Still, that’s not a reason to forbid women wearing what they want (or not). 😎
“Since they’re used (some say “meant”) for breastfeeding, they have an inherently sexual quality. I think it’s biological and built-in.” Um, no. First, men’s breasts can lactate too. Second, even if they were made for breastfeeding, that has absolutely nothing to do with sex. Being made for breastfeeding doesn’t mean they’ll have a sexual quality to them. “The fact that both gender’s genitalia are hidden, but just female’s chest have to be covered, is telling. Breasts have a huge emotional power.” That is CULTURAL. In societies where women walk around uncovered, men aren’t like overcome at the sight or whatever.… Read more »
Yeah, this. 🙂
There is actually a neurological difference between the chest of a man and the chest of a woman, namely that stimulation of a woman’s nipples also causes her genital stimulation, whereas the same is not true of men* (I don’t know if/how this may apply to trans or gender non-binary people, I think the study only used cis participants). Now I think the effect that behaviour and culture have on neurology is vastly underestimated in the general population so I wouldn’t say this difference isn’t cultural per se, but nor can we say that the only difference is a cultural… Read more »
@Yiab: “stimulation of a woman’s nipples also causes her genital stimulation, whereas the same is not true of men” YES! (and thank you for the quote) I can confirm that from personal experience (as most women would do, I think). OTOH, my response to nipple stimulation (and most men’s, I think) is just “meh” or – at best – mildly pleasant. I even read that some women can orgasm through nipple/breast stimulation only. No way this would happen to a man. HeatherN’s stance seem rooted in the need to see men and women as equal; in many cases (bodies included),… Read more »
So, Valter….I’ve met men who had extraordinarily sensitive nipples and enjoyed them during sex immensely, like a straight line to the groin. I’ve also met men for whom earlobes were near ecstasy. I’ve met women who….well, let’s just say their toes were somehow granted strange nerve pathways. I don’t know that we can ever say “Men’s bodies are like this, they never experience orgasm any other way but…” or the same for women. I believe that there have been cases of men who have experienced orgasm through nipple stim or earlobe stimulus after after paralyis. See the Chris Reeve foundation… Read more »
@Julie Gillis: “men and women are equal in the sense that the parts all have the potential to cause pleasure” Theoretically, yes. Practically, not always. Your stance (Julie and Heather) seems one of loving the idea so much (men and women as equal), to ignore practical reality. If men and women really were so much alike, there would not be so much conflict and misunderstandings. Sometimes (MANY times!) a man and a woman really look like they’re coming from different planets… 🙄 Listening to spouses complaints, you hear the same issues over and over. @JG: “to say “women always” or… Read more »
@Julie Gillis: “I’m saying no one is alike.” Yes and no. Everybody is unique… yet we all share commonalities. “I myself am an outlier in many ways” So am I (most of the times). 🙂 Yet, I see trends and commonalities (even when they’re far from my personal experience). “I don’t like hearing that my experiences aren’t somehow just as real as yours.” Your experiences are – of course! – real; but they do not necessarily represent reality at large. You seem to think they do, and that’s what I’m objecting to, usually. “That I have a knack for the… Read more »
I’d say my stand of trees that I”m most familiar with doesn’t look like the rest of the forest. And from what I can tell (reading here especially) my stand of trees has a lot less conflict, sex, happiness and acceptance than some of the other sections. Sometimes I read stories here and I just have such a hard time believing they are true. I do, you know, believe the writers. But I don’t recognize it, and it sounds quite sad.
As a bisexual person, I have some involvement in the gay community, and apparently men liking nipple stimulation is a very common thing. (I do to.) So unless it’s partly tied to one’s sexual preference, I don’t think there’s actually all that much difference between the sexes. (Not all women like it or get much out of it either.) As for the genital connection, well, women’s genitalia get aroused too, it’s just that the visual changes are so subtle that most people wouldn’t notice with a casual look.
Actually there are people of both genders who can reach orgasm without physical stimulus.
Yeah, mate, that’s not always true though. I know men that LOVE having their nipples played with, and women who actually don’t react sexually to having their nipples stimulated at all.
As a rule, studies talk about averages and tendencies. This does not necessitate that the traits being discussed are universal, nor does that variability detract from the fact that there is a real quantitative difference being presented.
Remember also that this study cannot separate innate biological traits from deeply ingrained cultural ones, and that it does not make a policy prescription. I merely presented it as a point of data relevant to the discussion.
I don’t have a problem with female strangers taking off their tops. The problem is with women I know. Do you really want to see your sister, niece, or daughter topless? Some female friends or coworkers could be awkward also. What if they had an exceptional pair of boobs? You know you’re not supposed to notice, but how can you not?
@John Gottman Anderson: “The problem is with women I know. Do you really want to see your sister, niece, or daughter topless?” Want it or not, that should not be THEIR business (otherwise, that would be akin to say “Women should not wear sexy outfits, because that makes men excited”). Of course, realizing that a woman kin to you is a sexual being might make you uncomfortable. But she IS a sexual being, regardless you notice it or not. Even a mom is, despite the fact that most children would not want to think to her that way (in USA,… Read more »
Thank you for this Valter. Women see men they know (and are related to) shirtless all the time. Depending on our attraction to them (and believe me it’s possible to acknowledge that one’s cousin is built well, all while tamping down attracting due to taboo issues), it can be more or less comfortable. Women find men attractive and I’d say we enjoy seeing many of them half clothed. I’m not sure how folks handle it in Europe, where a family might be on the beach and a mother takes her top off, but perhaps you’ve got a take on that… Read more »
@Julie Gillis: “I’m not sure how folks handle it in Europe, where a family might be on the beach and a mother takes her top off, but perhaps you’ve got a take on that Valter?” I don’t know much, because here in Italy (traditional and mostly catholic country, alas) people never go around topless (again, alas 😉 ). But I know that in France some women go topless on the beach, and – of course – naturist people and families do that… and nobody makes a fuss, AFAIK. 😎 @Julie Gillis: “I suspect the more we see of bodies the… Read more »
Agreed. I’ve said before, feel whatever you want to feel, but don’t expect me to conform to make you feel better. If you want to think I’m a rapist walking down the street, go right ahead and think that. But once your feelings start impacting me, ether by telling me I need to go out of my way to avoid you, telling me it’s my responsibility to stop rape so you don’t feel that way or you start yelling for help when I’ve done nothing, then that becomes a problem. So that remains applicable here. If I’m uncomfortable seeing my… Read more »
Acknowledging her boobs has nothing to do with sexuality. A man may feel sexually turned on, but that is about himself. What is sexual is our minds. Our bodies are just bodies, instruments we can use to express sexuality if we want to. But still neutral.
Women are sexual beings, with boobs or not, showing them or not. I don’t get your approach here. Unless you believe there is something particularly sexual about boobs; but that is certainly just cultural, and once again the meaning our minds give to them.
Sooo…. I’m going to crush some of the righteous anger here. In some states at least like say… Wisconsin https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/944 (scroll to 944.20) nothing is mentioned about women not being able to take their shirts off. … (Although there’s still an exemption for breast feeding I’m not sure why…)
It is true that women being topless is not illegal in a lot of places. The issue is not so much the law as the fact that there is a lot of cultural stigma about women being topless. I think that until that changes any woman who goes around topless will be subject to a lot of negative attention, from disapproving and judgemental stares to people muttering that she’s ‘just doing it for attention’. Even if the attention is not all negative, if you’re just trying to go about your day it would be so much easier to just wear… Read more »
“I think that until that changes any woman who goes around topless will be subject to a lot of negative attention, from disapproving and judgemental stares to people muttering that she’s ‘just doing it for attention’. ” A guy in a speedo will get the same, even more if he’s overweight. “Even if the attention is not all negative, if you’re just trying to go about your day it would be so much easier to just wear a shirt and not stand out, even if it means you can’t cool down as much.” I also like lolita fashion dresses a… Read more »
“A guy in a speedo will get the same, even more if he’s overweight.”
A female-bodied person will too, and does. You’re talking about genitals.
“I also like lolita fashion dresses a lot, but if I couldn’t stomach the attention it gets, I shouldn’t bother, not blame society for giving me attention.”
Should we only question society’s reaction to stepping outside the status quo when it comes to things you’re not willing to suck up?
Stepping outside the status-quo will always draw some attention. As long as it doesn’t provoke undue grievances to being able to rent or buy real estate, work in businesses, or outright public (physical or verbal) violence, such it is, suck it up or don’t do it. Cross-dressing men have been fired for being cross-dressed off the job. That’s undue grievance in work. Trans people have been fired for legalities, and making people squeamish about their gender presentation (especially if they don’t are seen as trans visually), they’ve also been presented from renting property, and even using public facilities like locker… Read more »
The issue is that men can walk around with their shirts off in public when it’s hot as much as they want to, but women can’t. It’s the exact equivalent, and there are certainly other things you can wear that draw attention, like certain fashions, but they are not exact equivalents to this. The fact that to make an equivalent example to my original comment you had to make a man take even MORE clothes off, and wear just a speedo, is quite telling. If a woman walking around in nothing but a tiny pair of swimsuit briefs stands out… Read more »
“And while you may consider that feminist minded women whipping their shirts off in public as much as possible to change attitudes will be the way forward, I can empathise with those who would never have the courage to do this until attitudes change a little first.”
Okay, but not wanting to be a trailblazer yourself won’t pave the roads.
Be a trailblazer, or encourage people to be. Don’t complain at trees for being in the way. The attitude won’t change until the attitude changes. You can’t complain at it.
Honestly, the thing about naked people is that we only really care because we’re told we should care. Society says “Naked woman chest = Sexual, Naked man chest = Not sexual.”
The thing is, I don’t find nudity particularly erotic, except during sexual situations. If there’s a naked guy doing laundry, I’m probably not thinking “ooh, must look at naked laundry man.’ I’m probably thinking about the laundy. Because unless they pose or something, naked people aren’t really that sexy to me.
Yeah. If you believe that mere nudity is erotic, then it’s fairly likely that you will find it erotic. If you don’t, then you definitely won’t. I had some discussion with a number people in the early 1990s (not on the internet, obviously) on this subject and it turned out that most of the people I spoke to were aware of this, yet they would rather live in a world were mere nudity was considered erotic because “it would lose a special something” if it wasn’t. (Or something along those general lines – one person specifically said “it would reduce… Read more »
Thank you Ozy. You’re fu***ng awesome. 8) (opps! Can I say “awesome” here? ) I long for a world where we can do whatever we want with our own bodies. Right now, I say that forbidding women to take off their shirts is just hypocritical and sexist. Of course, you cannot get real answers to your question, because the subject matter really is BS. Specifically: 1) Men are attractive to whomever find them attractive (c’mon, if men weren’t attractive, our species would have vanished long ago…) 2) Rules of consent still apply. Many men are attracted even by completely clothed… Read more »
“1) Men are attractive to whomever find them attractive (c’mon, if men weren’t attractive, our species would have vanished long ago…)” Well. Yes. But… Saying that women are attracted to men, doesn’t necessarily mean that they are attracted to his body, or images thereof. (I have asked this specific question on a number of discussion boards where the subject has been brought up, and it seems to be a fair number of women having sex with their husbands or male partners despite and not because of their visual apperance.) 2. WRT Ozy ” insofar as GIS is under the impression… Read more »
Yep, because famous guys are the ones who have large numbers of pictures of them on the Internet. 😛
And the whole “hairless, muscular, lean” thing is an annoying side effect of the fact that conventionally attractive people are more likely to have attractive shots of them with their shirts off, so even when one puts some effort into getting different body types and actively dislikes muscles, one *still* ends up with two muscley dudes.
“Yep, because famous guys are the ones who have large numbers of pictures of them on the Internet. ” Yeah I know. So much for circular arguments, right? 😀 But, as a rather cis-straight-male kind of guy, the pic of William Beckett seems to do more for me than the one of Amanda Palmer…! 🙂 IDK, but I think it’s more the smile and tousled hair than the torso. And I’m getting distracted by the text, “What does it say and what’s the story behind it?” kinda thing more than “WHOA, hot chick with naked chest!”. Sorry. You were sayin’…??… Read more »
And also, since I complimented Noah Brand for being a brave person in his naked-photos-post, pass my likewise compliments to Amanda Palmer.
(WRT the last post: The relative uninterest in her upper body display is probably just a sign of my age…)
Women will feel attracted – or not – to men’s body based on their sociocultural background. The same goes for men. (Heteronormative here just to be simpler) In general, yes, many, if not most women, prefer the fit (muscular or lean) hot guy, with little to no body hair. “Masculine” or pretty boy (Justin Bieber, anyone?), depending on the age, usually. But I believe that, in general, American women are still learning to understand their sexuality. For that reason, you could hear about lots of women that will say they do not care about physical attractiveness at all – even… Read more »
Hi, long time listener first time caller, as were. 1. As a man who looks like a slightly denser through the shoulders version of Mr. Zach… Person… it’s really affirming to see his body time referred as explicitly attractive in an outlet like this. Kind of shallow, I know, but it’s rare enough to stand out so thank you for mentioning. 2. It also makes me really sad that the discourse is so poisoned that the picture of AP would… really come across as anything other than a very cheerful looking shirtless person with a pretty smile. I mean, I… Read more »
I find that kind of body attractive myself. So there.
Ok, folks, try this one.
Have a male friend go to Ontario Canada where it is legal for women to take off their shirts. Have the male friend take of his shirt, then you as a female or male, go up and rub his chest, not have him to to the police and claim you sexually assaulted him, see , what they say. NOW, reverse the genders and see what happens.
Laws are such that the men who made the claim would be laughed at, by the police and prosecutors, where as the women wouldnt be.
Maybe, but that’s a problem with the (male-dominated) police, so I don’t really see your point regarding this article. Please cite a law against sexual harassment/unwanted bodily contact that isn’t at least on the paper gender neutral.
Actually it doesn’t have much to do with the police, male-dominated or not, since already at the beginning it’s ok to tuch a mans breasts but not a woman.
Just the hand on the breast when you stop someone is ok on a man where on a woman you better aim well with that hand or you get slapped.
I have a question: could you cite a public nudity law that isn’t gender neutral, at least on paper?
Arizona: A person commits indecent exposure if he or she exposes his or her genitals or anus or she exposes the areola or nipple of her breast or breasts and… Delaware: a) A male is guilty of indecent exposure in the second degree if he exposes his genitals or buttocks under circumstances… (b) A female is guilty of indecent exposure in the second degree if she exposes her genitals, breast or buttocks under circumstances… Indiana: (b) “Nudity’ [for the purpose of this public indecency statute]’ means the showing of the human male or female genitals, pubic area, or buttocks with… Read more »
Awww… someone actually did work. Now I need to cite unequal sexual battery laws.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/2010/title35/ar42/ch4.html
Scroll to sexual battery. So yes, we can find sexual assault laws that aren’t equal.
http://www.nudistlaw.com/state_laws.htm
If anyone else wants to take advantage of the approximately 2 minutes of “work” that I did.
Although I elided anything not directly relevant to gender parity, it is true that many states, including some of those I mention, make “lewdness”, intent to alarm, or similar, part of the mens rea.
Not, apparently, Indiana, though. Which also has the distinction of allowing men to be guilty of public nudity while completely clothed if their genitalia are “discernibly turgid”.
According to that logic, it would make better sense if men had to wear shirts at all times, while females should be able to go nude freely, as they are the ones who have the protection of the law behind them.
All this to say I can see irony too. There was a post recently about men and objectification which drew loads of comments. Many women wished they’d be seen for their minds before their bodies, men wished they’d be objectified a little, denial of objectification and also acceptance of it. Is this a case (the page views) where the body is more compelling than the intellect? Is it a meta issue? 🙂 I say this tongue in cheek but it struck me. Looking at bodies may be easier, for starters, than diving into such intense intellectual and feeling states that… Read more »
I find there’s a line with objectification. Bodies are pleasing, and you need a little bit of swooning every now and then, it’s just when it turns into “I expect this from you/men deserve to have the same demeaning treatment women get”, then it turns bad. And honestly, I think people would be fine with Male Gaze if Female Gaze was right along side it, not just there in tumblr, kink memes, yaoi-like queer porn and chick flicks.
Why would you call it pornographic and not the others? Also, Alan Rickman…..lovely.
Also, Amanda Palmer, she is a feminist no? I don’t see anything here that seems porno to me. Maybe the Diesel pic. Most are provocative yes, and some are sexy, but that’s not what I think of when I think about pornos…interesting. Tom, would you share why it’s pornographic to you?
I find it highly ironic on a day when on GMP we are trying to discuss serious issues surrounding the role of feminism in the men’s movement that this piece, which includes what I would call a pornographic image of a woman, is getting more traffic. Really, really sad.
One picture of a shirtless woman. Five pictures of shirtless men. The shirtless woman is pornographic. Thank you for proving my point for me. 🙂
According to the feminists only men are capable of objectifying women. And what they objectify is tits and ass. At least that is what I am told by all the women who comment on GMP.
Neither women or feminists are a hive mind. This shouldn’t be news by now.
I have largish breasts so going braless is not s comfortable option. Also, nipples sre sensitive . I don ‘t want them potentially bumping into things, getting cold etc. Finally, they are a private part of my body. I don’t want people looking at them, other than my boyfriend and my doctor. And I don’t want to see yours either.
And I don’t really want to see guys’ chests when they have more than an A-cup, or mullets, or cornrows, or burkas, or speedos, or crocs, but it’s not my (or anyone else’s) place to say that no one is allowed to have those things in a public area.
I don’t want to see men walking around with their penises showing either. I think there are goid reasons for social standards of attire. Also, the truth is, most people look terrible naked. Most people should not be wearing pants that show their butt cracks or shirts thatxshow their fat bellies. I include myself in that. Do we need to see more? Ugh.
” I think there are goid reasons for social standards of attire.”
If you’re going to be supporting legislation in support of those standards (aka promoting harm to those who break with the standards), please name those good reasons. The only one I’ve heard that makes any sense at all is to keep children from being psychologically harmed in some way, so I’m willing to give on the issue of genital nudity.
Though the actual harm from children seeing nudity comes from the fact that adults tend to freak out about them having seen nudity. They’re not harmed by seeing the nudity itself. That’s still a sort-of good reason to keep the laws when the taboo has been a cultural thing for generations – you do want to minimize harm to children regardless of the actual reasons for it, right? But on the other hand, in the modern world, whatever reasons people had for establishing it as part of the culture in the first place almost certainly no longer exist. So it’s… Read more »
The law does not exist to prevent you from looking at things you find distasteful. If it did I’d be campaigning to get certain types of wallpaper outlawed.
If you don’t want to be topless, it is also a valid choice.
You also have the choice to look away if you don’t want to see guys’ chests.
Apologies for the double-post.
Also, I’m sorry that you’re having to suffer in the heat, Ozy. Looks like there’s a movement to prevent men from going topless too, as mentioned here. And it’s a shame there are restrictions on Mr Pejic’s cover photo 🙁
Thank you Ozy! Awesome post.
I especially loved this bit:
Yes yes YES. Thank you. Male attraction and sexuality are not dangerous or toxic. At least, not any moreso than female attraction and sexuality.
But, but, privilege! Physical strength! Patriarchy!
/sarcasm
I am really offended by the constant implication in certain quarters that my dick is some sort of unstoppable vagina-seeking missile, or that every woman I find physically attractive in some way I am also necessarily sexually attracted to.
The problem is, men themselves are always confirming it.
I can’t even count how many times I have heard some peculiar men saying that “women could show their bodies (actually, they call it “sexuality” | body = sexuality… yes, it can’t get more radical) – but don’t complain if I get more aggressive or “act accordingly” (??!!)”. That is bizarre!
Not quite the same as “omg-i-must-rape-you”, but there’s the lesser “I’m a male-gendered-person, so visual, so female boobies ==> hard-on”.
It’s all part of sexualising mammaries and barely-controllable male urges. The Spanish beach example above suggests that it’s just a construct and not objectively a sexual trigger.
You can choose to look away if the strong desire makes you uncomfortable.
This bisexual woman thanks you for all the sexy photos to start my morning. Not a person in the list I would say no to (I’d bang Zack Galifinakis [come on, is that really harder to remember/type than Galiafwhatever?] BECAUSE of his beard, not in spite of it). Amanda Palmer even got a double-take, I scrolled back up to look at that again. My addition to the list would be Russell Brand. He just seems like he’d be a lot of fun in bed, and I kinda dig the grungy-glam look. Lady Gaga too. What a threesome that would make!… Read more »
…and in contrast, you can be arrested in VA for walking naked in your own home if someone looks into your window and sees you:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-6006155-504083.html
When I was living in Spain for a bit, there were topless women at all the beaches. We Americans did a little bit of pearl-clutching and nervously averting our eyes for a day or so, and then it became totally normal. No one cared or noticed, and women were not constantly being raped on beaches. It’s one of those things that Americans can’t imagine because it’s never been done here before, but if it actually happened, they’d realize that there’s nothing embarrassing or terrifying about a pair of breasts at all.
Most people don’t know which places in the U.S. legally allow toplessness for women. Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, New York, Ohio, and Texas allow women to be topless in state law, although some cities in these states may prohibit it. Washington, DC legally allows women to be topless. I’m from Oregon and as far as I know toplessness for women is legal throughout the state.
It’s interesting to wonder whether the fact that these laws are seldom taken advantage of is lack of awareness or because most women don’t want to be topless… and if so, is that a problem, or is it enough that women have the right even if they largely choose not to use it?
Well, that’s why some women are taking it upon themselves to spread the word. Such as this woman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwod_VFC_c0
I’m also from Oregon. It’s legal here on the state level, and not banned in most of the larger cities as far as I know. Not only this, but full nudity is also a protected form of free speech when used in conjunction with protest. Before the Portland SlutWalk I pointed out that there was no need for topfree women to put tape over their nipples for this event if they didn’t want to, but the women who responded to that all said that they were scared of police harassment and/or arrest anyway. (Which is kind of ridiculous since the… Read more »
“A huge part of the problem is that in most places the police can arrest you for “failing to obey orders” (including covering up when they say so, even if it’s not illegal) or “public disorder” (which is pretty much whatever the police think it is).”
+1.
I have a huge problem with these kinds of laws because they effectively say whether or not a policeman’s orders are legal, we still have to follow them in the short-term.
I really liked this post, some awesome points for something I always figured I agreed with but never gave much thought. Thanks! Also, can I add one more sexy man? Rapper Lupe Fiasco, sexy sexy brains.
http://thissongissick.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/lupe-fiasco.jpg
(Also, what kind of tags work here?)
I Copenhagen we had a brief go-around with this back some 5-6 years ago. I used to be women were required to wear tops at the city’s many public swimming facilities. Then we had a series of protests – groups of women showing up to go swimming w/o tops. The city quickly struck down the “no topless women” rule. So – going to a pubic swimming facility topless is now OK. I don’t think a lot of women do it, though – at least not at in-door facilities. Lots of topless women in parks and at beaches in the summer,… Read more »
I really wonder why this is. I do note that among the various body parts, male and female, which people cover around the world, most seem to be either objectively, physically debased or disgusting (such as the butthole), to be the genitals specifically, to be erogenous (such as feet or breasts. Are men’s nipples less sensitive than women’s?) or to have one of a number of forms that I guess people find sensual or sexy or something. Which can be curves of certain kinds (which in the case of women, have various amounts of socially required coverage, and in the… Read more »