Shasta Townsend explains that to most women, men are more than bank accounts, pretty faces or hot bodies.
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As filming for the movie version of 50 Shades of Grey began this month, I just can’t keep quiet any more.
I don’t want this to come across as critical or as a take down. I admit I am one of the 40 plus million women worldwide who read it, though I did throw it across the room in frustration and annoyance all the while shouting, “No, no, no. Finally a book about sex and they got it all wrong.”
I am thrilled that women’s sexuality is a mainstream topic these days. With sales over US $90 million, clearly women want sex and dare we say, we want ravishing, throw me on the table and show me you want me sex. I am glad it helped release some of the shame about fetishes and sexual variations which can also be healthy and joyful way to express sexuality but I am not thrilled about the leading male character, Christian Grey. Grey only reinforces an already dangerous and damaging stereotype of men that leave both genders at odds with each other and engaging in projections that are not only unreasonable but also unhealthy.
As a male friend recently asked me,
“Is that what women really want and expect from men – a man like Christian Grey – a gorgeous, extremely wealthy stud with a huge package who can only get turned on from S & M and who is totally emotionally unavailable, borderline abusive and totally misogynistic but all this is ok because he can buy you things?”
No sweetie. That is not what we want.
I still like vanilla. A lot. And I like whole-hearted, loving, perfectly imperfect men and I believe there are millions of women out there who do too. So boys, before you think we are only after your big bank account, beautiful face or body, let’s get clear on what the women I know really want.
Men of the Heart
Men who reflect their own humanity are the sexiest men. I am way over tough mofos, brick walls and emotional unavailability. Don’t even get me started on old school dinosaurs and how totally unattractive I find misogyny. It’s cliché, but men who are emotive; who are compassionate and who are truly ALIVE are extremely attractive. You don’t have to be spouting poetry or saving baby seals, but please LOVE.
I am married to a real man’s man and the times I am the most turned on is when I see him in acts of love. The time he bought coffees for a whole road crew, the time he told his father how much he loved him, the time he cried with me over great news and the times he gave his seat up to a women and not a pregnant woman on the New York subway (which was so unexpected the woman did not know what to do). I recognize it is not always easy for him or anyone to be vulnerable, but I encourage it and expect it. I want a man who can walk with an open heart or at least is open to expressing it. Men who love and demonstrate it – in whatever way that may be are sexy, sexy and that is what women want.
Men of Integrity
Another thing that really turns me on is integrity. It is simple – speak with truth and kindness. Do what you say you will do when you say you will do it. I don’t expect blue boxes full of gold, but if you tell me you are going to hang that picture or get the groceries then please do it. I, along with millions of women will reward you – because when you do what you say you will do we feel we can trust you, we feel safe with you and we believe you and IN you and that makes us want to be with you. When my husband says he will put out the recycling and actually does each Tuesday, my heart soars and so do my loins.
Integrity also means you have a girl’s back. You don’t criticize her, boss her or slag her – ever. There are no “The Wife…” comments when you are out with the boys and you don’t share stories that are not meant for others ears. I have heard way too many men (and women) speak unkindly and with down right abuse to and about their lover. Not cool. Speak kindly of me and to me – it’s what women want.
Men of Perfect Imperfection
Women appreciate beauty but the interesting thing is that what we find beautiful is often assurance and authenticity. We all have body preferences and hey, I like a hard stomach and full chest just as much as the next girl but I am also totally turned on a man who is just totally ok in his skin even if it’s not perfect.
The other day at a hotel, I was standing behind a man around 5’8, a little on the heavy side, with glasses and a crazy head of curly hair but there was something beautiful about him. Although he was dressed well, it was more than the clothes. He appeared comfortable with himself. He spoke with confidence and kindness. He seemed at peace with the world. He was also ordering a bottle of champagne to his room, as a surprise for his wife who I bet is crazy about him. He was not the type of man that would typically make a woman melt but there was something extremely attractive about him.
So men, before you think we want a perfect buff body consider that we want you to be you. You being you mean you being the best version of you, however. Women also want a man who is taking responsibility for “stuff” so he can truly be his authentic self. By this, I mean a man who is letting go of the old school story, the bullshit baggage and his own roadblocks. I don’t expect my husband to be perfect but I appreciate that he wants to be, in his words, “a better man”. And that means a man who can stand in truth, be in his heart, his integrity and his beauty – this is what women want.
It’s time to write a new story about women and men and what we truly want. I hope your story, as a man, is 50 times more delicious than you ever expected. Millions of women are waiting for YOU.
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Photo of Charlie Hunnam, cast as Christian Grey, courtesy of the AP
It’s difficult to overlook the parallels and diagonals between men’s and women’s style of pornography. The rich and successful alpha type male who after having seen the world, falls in lust and love with me, and the hyper sexual wanton LA model chasing penises without regard. Even in fantasy, the irony of reality pokes up its ugly head.
According to some marketing people somewhere, women in relationships are the largest consumers of romance pornography while confidence is low that the same is true for men /pornography usage and their relationship status. This is an interesting diagonal me thinks.
I think there’s a technological factor playing a major role. A huge percentage of e-book purchases and e-books checked out of libraries are erotic fiction read by women, something on the order of 40% of all electronic books. Probably because when you read one, no one else around you can see the cover or see the title of what you’re reading. Just one factor at work, of course.
I’ve read it is closer to 14% for the e-version of romance novels. I feel it has far more to do with price and convenience than stigma – secretly, I wish it were the stigma, but I’m afraid not.
Are you suggesting that married men don’t consume romance porn? Or that we don’t consume the sort regularly associated with men? That seems pretty unlikely to me. I don’t have any married friends who seem particularly happy with their sex lives. If anything, I think may have turned to it less while single.
I was comparing visual porn to the written version and how each tends to dominate in their target markets and how the written form has far less stigma glued to it.
There does appear to be less stigma to the written form. There is also a lot of key differences between romance novels and pornography. 1. Not all women read romance novels with the goal to masturbate. Some read it as if they would read any book. Crime, mystery, horror…… because it is entertaining in it’s respective field. Most people view porn with the intention to masturbate. 2. While both romance novels and porn over fantasy characters, pornography seems much more apt to degenerate characters in ways romance novels largely don’t. Romance novels seem to be about lifting characters up. Giving… Read more »
Make whatever movie you want to, but:
Doesn’t this movie already exist? This sounds awfully similar to James Spader and Maggie Gyllenhal in _Secretary_.
There’s no reason to doubt any particular woman who says she read the book but didn’t like it. I’ll take an individual at her word. However, in the aggregate something fishy is going on here. Millions and millions of women have bought a copy and told their friends about it, millions and millions have read it, but no one seems to like it. Millions read it but no one likes it. That’s theoretically possible but sounds highly implausible. I’m not assuming that the book’s readership is a representative cross-section of American women, and I totally get that some things are… Read more »
Hi wellokaythen
It is nothing new that we occasionally have erotic books everybody ( I mean women) reads.
My mother read:
Fanny Hill
Lady Chatterly’s lover
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina_Hill
And of course some highly erotic novels written by famous authors in my language..
Everybody read them. Period.
But here the themes is not domination as far as I know. So lets not over analyze it.
People are curious about sex. It may be as simple as that, and reading about it may be more pleasant than looking at it for some.
Iben,
Have you read “Fanny Hill”??
I totally agree that (some) people are curious about sex, and that reading about it may be more pleasant than looking at it for some.
But if you take some interest in it, reading about it may also stir your curiosity and make you interested in trying new ways to do it.
Hi Collin I am sorry to hear that. It must be an American phenomena.where parents raise women be act like that and a culture that supports it. When you put the PUA activities on top of all this I can see it is also difficult to be a woman in America. How can you show interest in a man if any stranger can be a PUA that will use you for “training on how to wear down a girls resistance “and then dump you. Or he can be MGTOW with the attitudes ” pump and dump”. So why don’t you… Read more »
One day we are told here at GMP that to be attractive, we (men) should just be confident in our skin and don’t care too much about what we look like. The next day we are told to stop whining and just hit the gym every now and then doesn’t hurt. And all the while there’s this constant buzz in the background that we should just be confident and not care about what other people think.
Isn’t that at least a little bit funny…?
What about we men STOP asking what women want. This constant worrying about your confidence, social or sexual, is not healthy. The problem is that you, as a guy, are the one that has to step up if anything in the relationship is going to happen. That is such a weak frame to come from. It impacts you psychologically. So this idea of you being ‘the best you’. That’s bullshit. This idea that a lot of guys need to be something ‘more’ is the problem. As guys we shouldn’t care. How about she having as much of control of her… Read more »
I do think men should ask themselves how their partner makes them feel and pay attention to how she treats them. But I don’t think he shouldn’t care about her feelings or wants either. I think there is a way to do both in a balanced way.
Hi Nistan When I read your comment I could not believe my own eyes. This is 2013 and you say nothing will happen in a relationship between a man and a woman unless HE starts,intimates,leads or take control. Maybe I misunderstand you? Do you actually mean what you say here Nisan: ✺”The problem is that you, as a guy, are the one that has to step up if anything in the relationship is going to happen.” ✺ What is this “anything” you talk about that never happens if the man don’t step up? If sex is want you talk about… Read more »
To be fair, it is mostly true. I’ve never had a woman initiate anything with me. Ever. I don’t have a single friend who has had a woman initiate anything with them ever either. We approach, we ask them out, we initiate physical contact, etc, etc, etc. While I know I hear of women on the internet who initiate, I do not know one in person. In fact, I have asked my female friends if they have initiated and they have all said they have not. In general, men are still required to initiate everything with regard to dating and… Read more »
When will people stop looking at manufactured, carefully marketed fads to find out what women want? Those things don’t reflect what people want, they tell people what to want! Of all the people who read 50 shades, how many actually read it because “everyone else has read it”. Add to it the fact that it’s bascically the only example of outspoken female sexuality out there and it’s not like people have that many choices. It has a bit of merit, though, just for daring to speak about the subject matter. And, yes, women like big sex toys. (And yes, men… Read more »
@Cynthia,
“……(And yes, men like silicon-breasted porn stars.)”
Oh, are those for sale too?
I’ve read a fair share of erotic fiction, and I really don’t get why _50 Shades_ was the break-out hit for the genre. The public acted like the author was the original inventor of both BDSM and erotic fiction. The genre has been around for decades, centuries really, and nothing in the series was at all original. It’s pretty mid-range quality, indistinguishable from dozens of other titles published that same year. There are many better examples of the genre, and many worse examples as well. It’s like celebrating the Toyota Camry as the car that everyone just has to drive… Read more »
I think that the fact that 40 million plus women have turned this book into one of the best selling books of all time says a great deal more about actual women’s fantasies than is politically convenient for anyone to admit, however well-intentioned they might be.
Hi Michael
And how many million, billions of women are we in the world?
I will not read it.
Lots of women say no thank you.
Do not conclude that the themes in that book tell the truth about women’s sexuality.
Look at the crap of American TV series we who live outside of America can see on out TV screens everyday.
Shall we conclude that this is the facts about Americans? After all you Americans consume it and sell it the rest of world.
Hi Iben
I’m not American.
And it’s sold 70 million copies and been translated into 50 languages. Guess what? Most Americans can barely manage English. Where else do you suppose women have been reading it? I’ll give you 50 guesses.
Michael, I actually really disagree about it beings specific to women’s fantasies. I wrote a comment above addressing this.
Romance novels are best selling books (but don’t make the NYT bestsellers because of their genre), billions are sold. This isn’t new, what’s new is that this book is so mainstream and we saw women reading it everywhere and it was ONE series that got so much attention.
But none of this is new, really. There has been female fantasy literature forever and it’s a hugggggeeeeely profitable business.
‘Female Fantasy’ as in what they desire?
Let me try this again. When you say fantasy do you mean ‘secretly desirable’?
I mean, isn’t that the definition of a fantasy?
“Most Americans can barely manage English. ”
Really Michael, this was quite ignorant.
“Most Americans can barely manage English, ”
Really Michael , this was quite ignorant. !!!
YAH REALLY, he is just making a valid point , after all its true and backed up by evidence from the US Education department stats for the illiteracy in the US, check it for yourself
When you besmirch on an entire culture with a prejudice that is apparently specific to America, that is not a valid point.
And by the way, I did what you suggested. Apparently, the percentage of adults that can’t read in the US is 14%. Also, when you compare the other data, United States is only beat by 11 or so other countries. How does that equate to “Most Americans…”
Michael , it seems any behavior linked to women as a gender trait , that is not in line with an ideal politically correct dogma , is considered wrong , we all have preferences as individuals and in groups , but it is also true that as people of a specific gender , male or female we do actually prefer certain things that are unique to one gender for the most part or at least predominantly , not everything is a social construct when it comes to gender . for the not so ideologically bounded by hard believes try and… Read more »
Well that same argument is used when it comes to men and porn. Porn has some unhealthy messages about sexuality and millions of men are into porn therefore millions of men are into unhealthy message about sexuality.
@Steve,
“If you don’t believe that nearly all women feel attraction toward an authentically confident man, and you wait to confirm your suspicion with every woman you want to attract – you’ve missed the boat.”
We can agree.
I dont think there are really something like “what women want” or “what men want” , because every individual is different, no matter what gender he/she is.
What I dont like with this article is, its basically saying ” dude, women arent shallow like you”. Its still catering to gender stereotype, which I hate so much. There are many shallow women, just like there are many shallow men. Period.
I believe that people (both men and women) who spend too much time wringing their hands over alleged “gender essentialism” miss out on many opportunities to delight the other gender.
If you don’t believe that nearly all women feel attraction toward an authentically confident man, and you wait to confirm your suspicion with every woman you want to attract – you’ve missed the boat.
She thinks you should already know that. It’s up to you to decide IF you want to display that confidence and, if so, HOW you are going to do it.
Yeah I dont belive it. Why? Because as a shy and guy who is under a category of a “physics nerd”, I have a girlfriend, who told me she found my shyness is cute and attractive. I dont think shes in very tiny minority, because I know many women have “a thing” for shy nerds like me. I dont belive that to attract men/women you have to be one kind of man, either its confident, funny, or dominant. The only thing that I think can be applied to almost anyone as a thing that attract them is kindness, and I… Read more »
A lot of shy guys have come to believe that “confident” means extroverted, loud, or life of the party. Totally false.
I would bet your girlfriend finds you to be a very confident physics nerd. This can simply mean that you’re happy being who you are and are not about to change yourself or your passion to suit someone else. They can accept you and your values or leave. That’s hot. That’s confidence.
“The more you know, the more you realize you don’t know.” someone said.
So in my experience, it’s usually the more ignorant who are also the most confident. And therefore also the most extroverted and loud.
Being the person that everyone wants on their team when playing TP, won’t get you any romantic points.
Women are constanly told that men are shallow, so what’s a person that doesn’t want to be hurt supposed to do but answer back?
Just believe everybody is different. Stating things like “This is what (all/most) WOMEN WANT!” but it is actually what she want is, for me, stupid. Women is not homogenous group just like men.
This seems like a harmful article on so many levels. I notice what you write about women contrasts with what we say about men. But if women are so perfect and so consistent in the way they value men then how can women ever change or evolve? Also a lot of people feel that the theme of submissiveness has more to do with a desire to give yourself to another person. Maybe it’s a flawed means of achieving that aim but I think we shouldn’t read 50 shades too literally because it is fantasy. I think the idea of a… Read more »
@A human being with empathy and compassion, Steve (above) is simply an idealist. I don’t care how many men he has treated and counseled…The world of men and women simply is NOT as he says. Period. Watch what people DO, not what they SAY. Hence my skepticism on this piece.” What a woman SAYS and what a woman DOES, and what a woman SAYS she DOES are three different things” – Margaret Mead, American Cultural Anthropologist It’s like women who say a man’s cock size does not matter. But, have you ever seen an ‘average” best selling sex toy? No,… Read more »
“I just wish we could both be more open and honest. Until that happens, the OUTCOME(S) will remain the same.” Me too. And I find that many men and women can actually achieve that with help. Is that idealism? Totally agree with Margaret Mead. That’s why I help men to quit fretting over “what women want” and trying to figure them out. It is totally possible for a man to choose confidence and choose behaviors he values and let the cards fall where they may. He can do this while loving and respecting her needs along the way…and giving her… Read more »
@Steve Horsman,
“Is that idealism?”
Yes, because it is not a realistic expectation of either, especially women.
Only a small percentage of either sex is going to embrace what you are advocating Steve. Simple fact of life.
“It’s like women who say a man’s cock size does not matter. But, have you ever seen an ‘average” best selling sex toy? No, I have not. The best sellers are larger than average.”
Have you seen a normal-looking porn star?
@Cynthia,
I do not watch porn.
Nor do I knock those who do. It’s there business, not mine.
The issue is credibility, honesty, and trust.
While I appreciate you offering a woman’s perspective on what is desireable in a man I can’t help but notice that it is being offered in a tone that says what that male friend of yours (the one you call sweetie) asked about just doesn’t happen. Guys offer what they offer and women go for what they go for and the general hope is that the two will line up. When there is a misalignment I think there is often a rush to say that one side or the other is fully responsible for the misalignment. As what bobbt says… Read more »
I think part of that is because it was NEW to us, in the mainstream. Romance novels sell better than almost any other books (but don’t make the NYT bestseller lists), but they’re still not totally mainstream. Kink certainly isn’t mainstream, but most women I know like to have their asses slapped by the right person at the right time. And there isn’t much talk about our lust and our desire and our kinky tendencies. I think the books sold well because women could embrace their sexuality without be embarrassed -all their friends and their moms had read it too… Read more »
I mean, men read Carl Hiaasen and other crime novelists in droves – does that mean all men want to be detectives, serial killers or beat cops? Nah. It’s just escapism. Well considering how that material (and porn of course) are propped up as examples of how men are just boys that refuse to grow up and would rather hold onto childish fantasy (and unrealistic expectations of sex) I’d say there’s plenty who think its more than just escapism. Its odd really. Men are cast a monolith when it comes things like porn, video games, and violent material but do… Read more »
Carl Hiaasen books are propped up as examples of how men are boys? Danny, really? Find me a link anywhere that says that.
I don’t have a link that says this about Carl Hiaasen specifically but are you really trying to say that you’ve never seen anything about how guys get into that material in some subconscious desire to maintain their boyhood or out of a desire to have freedom to do as they wish?
Video games, yes. But not crime novels.
Shasta, Nothing else seems to provoke such sharply-divergent reactions between men and women as these “what women really want from a man” articles. The women jubilantly praise, and the men express skepticism, I think because the sentiments directly contradict so much of our lived experiences. I try to have compassion, to love, to have integrity, to live authentically and to be the best version of myself. I do this for myself, because that’s who I want to be. And it’s just as well, because I still get close to zippo as far as interest from women. These are all good,… Read more »
Hi Jonathan
You say:
✺”I try to have compassion, to love, to have integrity, to live authentically and to be the best
version of myself. I do this for myself, because that’s who I want to be. And it’s just as well,
because I still get close to zippo as far as interest from women. “✺
Why do you think this happens to you Jonathan?
I wonder if it is something about yourself you are unaware of,or can not see.
Iben,
I do not know why I get so little romantic interest from women. (I get a fair amount of interest from men, though, I just don’t swing that way.) Clearly, it is something about me that I can’t perceive. I’ve had lots of hypotheses over the years, and rather than blaming anybody else, worked on improving myself. Most of these changes have improved my friendships and general success, just not in the realm of romance.
How do you fix what you can’t tell is wrong?
@Jonathan G..
“How do you fix what you can’t tell is wrong?”
You need to have someone give an external appraisal (appearance, hygiene, dress style, language….) of you and someone whom you respect (an know will be brutally honest) give you an internal appraisal.
It could be something very simple.
I’ve asked around, but everybody is either as stumped as I am. Or maybe unwilling to speak bluntly. The consensus among the women is that they don’t see any reason they’re not romantically interested in me, they’re just not.
Hi Jonathan I think Jules give you good advice. Even if you probably don’t understand Danish, look at this video if you have time. Six persons that never managed to find a partner agree to let experts find a spouse for them. It is arranged marriage. The plan is to commit totally from day one,but if feelings of love never develop the couple shall be honest about it and divorce. Here is episode 6. Two of couples have developed feelings for each other, but the third couple struggles( Martin and Mette). Mette say first reaction when she saw Martin at… Read more »
Hmm, Iben, take a look at what you wrote (and I’m paraphrasing) about how Martin looks weak in the eyes of others because he’s balding and likes to wear (socially-unacceptable?) hats. He would be more worthy of love and acceptance if he adapted himself to his society’s current notions of fashion in haberdashery. Compare that with the usual “just be yourself” or “self-confidence is the most important thing” advice that men often get.
So, men should just be themselves, except when they’re supposed to conform to other people’s expectations. Do you see why they’re confused?
Hi Jonathan I think you misunderstood me when I took Martins hat and caps as examples. Martin IS worthy of love, with his hat or without hat. NO, no man looks weak in the eyes of others because he is balding. I like balding men. My point is that Martin look fine. Balding looks good, but when I look at this TV series I wish to see Martin more comfortable in his own skin. Because Martin is a fine man, he is good looking man and also a kind,compassionate man. You write: ✺ “He would be more worthy of love… Read more »
No, they don’ constitute the whole, attractive, male. The ‘proper’ blend of self-confidence, social confidence, and sexual confidence is what makes up an attractive male. ‘Proper” is determined by the reaction he gets from the particular woman he wants to attract. Whether or not he is exuding that confidence in attractive or repulsive ways depends on the woman he is with. There ARE “general” ways a man can exude the 3 and be considered “generally” attractive. Generalities are not evil in this case. A man with only a strong sense of self and social confidence soon finds himself in the… Read more »
Hi Steve
You are right. At least for me this is attractive.
I wonder why this is so hard to grasp for many men.
Most men can’t grasp it until they experience enough fear or pain in their life or relationship.
Up until that point, the idea of becoming totally accountable for themselves and making personal changes it just too hard. Too much work. Why can’t somebody ELSE change first to make it easier for them?
Everyone wants honesty until somebody actually tells them the truth.
Hi Steve
This must be the sentence or the quote for today:
“✺Everyone wants honesty until somebody actually tells them the truth “✺
I love it 🙂
@Iben….
Hello Iben!
And the world knows we Americans cannot face the truth.
We really love living in a nation full of lies, denial of reality, and delusional thinking.
Do we really need to discuss if PEOPLE (yes, I readily admit to presume that this is also valid for women, although I think it mostly manifests itself in different ways) who do not receive any positive sexual attraction/attention/interest are at risk of losing their sexual confidence?
It’s hard for so many men, Iben, because Steve’s answer about self-, social and sexual confidence is good rhetoric because it’s so flexible that you can apply it to your experiences and, together with those, it sounds like a great truth. But I think it’s really just begging the question (in the old sense of the phrase). The trouble so many men have, in my estimation, is in the question of what the heck are those things in practice? How does self-confidence manifest itself? What does social confidence look like on a day-to-day basis? How is it that when one… Read more »
Hi Jonathan G. I think your questions are perfect. I’ve been just as frustrated with all the guru’s who bombard men and women with “what” (the rhetoric) they should be instead of “how” to actually achieve the goals you want. “Just be confident and you’ll be fine” is useless. And “Just be yourself” is equally unhelpful. I don’t believe in acting confident. I believe in taking a step by step approach to actually practice and build true confidence. And I believe that “being yourself” is bad advice if a person is either unaware of or unhappy with who that really… Read more »
“Bro, you gotta realize that she MUST feel you are superior to her. She needs to feel inferior to be attracted to you. You can do this by negging her (insulting) the right way. It’s also important to look her in the eye when you’re talking to her, but never look at her when she’s talking to you.” I can not believe you are seriously advocating for this approach. Unless I misread something. Good Lord. This may work with some women but if a man tried this detached-superority mind-game, I’d never talk to him again. I don’t want a man… Read more »
Erin,
you seriously misread it. of course I don’t advocate that. i was making a point about being careful about what you read.
Steve
I wasn’t sure. For me, it was hard to accurately interpret what you were saying. Thanks for setting me straight.
@Steve,
“Lots of married guys start to believe they deserve sex even without an ounce of sexual confidence.”
Confidence derives from experience, practice, and being passionate about a thing.
As I have said on many many occasions here, too many women favor sex with man type “A” but want to marry man type “B.” Man type “B” is in most cases inexperienced Steve. I was one such man Steve. I am convinced that’s one reason, maybe the primary reason, my marriage was sexless for over 10+ years.
That’s my point, Jules. I was the same guy as you in a 28 yr. marriage. She married mr. nice guy – type B. I was full of self confidence and social confidence. High value husband material on the outside. I believed I should have earned sex (deserved it, damn it) for all the wonderfulness people thought of me. I was totally insecure and unwise about her, her sexual response, and her real desires (man type A). A husband like this (me) continues to shower his wife with disappointment, resentment, and intellectual warfare to force his way into intimacy. A… Read more »
Hi Jonathan, It’s quite possible, as people are notoriously poor judges of their own behavior and image, but the same disconnect (between what you say you want and what I see women wanting) holds true when I observe other men. The only conclusion that I can draw from the available evidence is that these character traits are necessary, but not sufficient. (And I see that for some women, they’re not even necessary.) I fully agree with you on the poor self-judgement thing. I say that we like to boast what positive traits we are attracted to, while in reality we… Read more »
I also agree with you on the distinction between necessary and sufficient, regarding character traits. A distinction that is rarely taken into consideration in discussions like this. It’s quite the stunning oversight, really, considering the way the human mind works. Quite often, when it comes to acts and desires, the unconscious brain acts or wants, and it is left to the conscious mind to rationalize act or desire after the fact. Even people with the highest skill at introspection frequently mis-judge their true motivations. The decisions and desires that arise through conscious deliberation take much longer to reach, and we’re… Read more »
Good comment. One thing can be said both about 50 shades and guy porn; when you fantasize, your brain doesn’t have to worry about things like “reality”, “practicality”, “physical danger”, “emotional danger”, “right and wrong” and “dignity” (or “human beings” for that matter). Therefore, no kind of porn will ever be a true portrayal of human sexuality like no kind of fiction will ever be real life. Most people are aware of that when they enjoy fiction but when someone else does it, we go into panic mode and think “is that what they really want?” Time for women to… Read more »
Hi Cynthia,
Time for women to get more secure about porn and for men to get more secure about oversized sex toys
Yes. And even better if we could get more secure and honest to actually start to interact with each other instead. 🙂
What you are saying in the article & reality are far apart, wishful thinking & politically correct hopes of the few that are ideologically biased will not change the minds, hearts & more importantly the evolutionary predisposition of millions if not billions of women.
As a woman, I think you’re totally wrong. Being as you’re citing absolutely no evidence, and neither am I, then we cancel each other out. In fact, I think me being a woman (and Shasta, too) I think we win out here. You don’t know what women want. We know what we, as women want, and being as we’re both happily married, we have no agenda in telling our truth. And this is our truth. YES I want to be (consensually) tossed onto a bed, have my hands held down, and kissed hard. But I also want to be loved,… Read more »
” Shitty women”!!!??, what was that about, Joan you don’t even know me, let alone whom I am with for starters, secondly just because women want wealthy powerful men as mates doesn’t make them bad , greedy, people necessarily unless they are being judge with a politically correct ideological / religious lens, I strive to form my understanding of the world around me whether it’s women, men or anything else through logic or science based lens , besides we all know evolutionary predisposition and traits are not absolute in how it is expressed in life or the real world, more… Read more »
Joanna,
YES I want to be (consensually) tossed onto a bed, have my hands held down, and kissed hard.
/…/
And almost every woman I know feels the same.
That may be true. It seems to me that there’s a lot of women who want this, but somewhat ironically they don’t want it done by the man they have chosen to spend their life with.
Hi Not buying it
Can you tell us more about what you here describe as:
✺ “the evolutionary predisposition of millions if not billions of women.”✺
Plus the reference to the recent research about this , published in the most respected scientific research journals ?
Hi iben sorry for not getting back to you sooner , working plus travel lagged the past couple of days , anyway off the top of my head right know: Sarah Blafffer Hrdy author ( the woman that never evolved ) Margo willson author ( sex,evolution and behavior ) Matt Ridleys ( the red queen ) Donald Symons ( the evolution of human sexuality ) the adapted mind by various anthropologists , geneticist , etc, edited by Jerome barkow , leda cosmides and john tooby. all of them have been published in the American psychological Journal , I will try… Read more »
Hi not buying it
Thank you.
My intent was not to be sarcastic. I have never read any of this, and would like to read it.
And since I am not well qualified to evaluate any reseach report,I prefer to read scientific journals because there others have done a quality control.
Take that as sarcasm if you want.
iben, I forget to point out that regardless of the respected scientific research Journal if you approach this discussion with what I suspect to be preconceived ideological bias ( gender construct ) or religious belief due to the sarcastic tone of your comment ,you might as will not look because its like proving gravity and the earth is round to someone who doesn’t like that reality.
Hi not buying it You write: ✺”iben, I forget to point out that regardless of the respected scientific research Journal if you approach this discussion with what I suspect to be preconceived ideological bias ( gender construct ) or religious belief due to the sarcastic tone of your comment ,you might as will not look because its like proving gravity and the earth is round to someone who doesn’t like that reality.”✺ A person ask you for some references and your reactions are hostile and arrogant . It is hard for me to understand why me asking for references about… Read more »
Shasta writes: So men, before you think we want a perfect buff body consider that we want you to be you. You being you mean you being the best version of you, however. Women also want a man who is taking responsibility for “stuff” so he can truly be his authentic self. By this, I mean a man who is letting go of the old school story, the bullshit baggage and his own roadblocks. I don’t expect my husband to be perfect but I appreciate that he wants to be, in his words, “a better man”. And that means a… Read more »
I wrote this back in April. Full link below.
What’s a great woman?
Firm personal values
Strong character and strong willed
Loving, caring, and emotionally available
An unapologetically sexual being
Speaks very directly when needed and always from a place of love
Loves men for who they are
Intuitively knows that “equality” doesn’t mean we’re the same
High expectations of themselves and of others
Models her strength and values with grace
http://goodguys2greatmen.com/goodguys/are-you-the-woman-you-were-meant-to-be/
@Steve
Clearly we have only a few great women.
The same holds for men too.
Only a few or minority of men (or women) have solid character, are emotionally available, speak from a place of love……
BAM!
https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/hesaid-what-makes-a-woman-beautiful-to-a-man/
So 90 million in print sales , and God knows how much this movie will gross (I predict it will probably blow away that other film about what women ‘really don’t want’ Magic Mike) While this ‘Story’ relies quite heavily on the ‘S&M’ angle , it remains consistent with all the other ‘Romance’ novels in that the protagonist is “Handsome , Rich, and ‘Well Endowed'”. Maybe when someone writes a ‘Romance’ novel where the guy is’ About 5′ 8″, 180lbs., with a receding hairline an d struggles financially to get by (and he’s average or maybe even slightly below) it… Read more »
I really loved this piece Shasta.
But (always), again I hear a woman writing that women really are seeking A, B, C, D. Is this really what they ACTUALLY want though? Yes, the dominating, ravishing, toss you on the bed sex. I know this to be true for a fact. I can buy this, easily.
The other stuff.. I remain skeptical.
Just saying….
Nevertheless, a marvelous piece. I enjoyed reading every word.
Bravo!
Over the top magnificent, Shasta! I read the first of the trilogy out of curiosity and found it cringingly bad writing and as you indicated, a poor representation of what most women I know want in a relationship. You are speaking my heart’s desire. I’m glad you discovered the man who answers your invitation.
Blissings,
Edie <3
Amen Shasta. I read 50 Shades because of all the hype. I hated Christian Gray and there was nothing I found remotely sexy about him.
Especially, totally, completely agree with this:
“Women appreciate beauty but the interesting thing is that what we find beautiful is often assurance and authenticity.”
I will also say that when I’ve seen a man display vulnerability in a healthy way, that’s been extremely attractive to me.