A guy wonders how to handle his girlfriend who wants to have a master/slave relationship. Josie and Eli call in Noah Brand for a third opinion from inside the world of kink.
Originally appeared at She Said He Said
Dear Sexes: My girlfriend just recently told me that she’s into s&m and she knows that I had a master/slave relationship in the past. What she doesn’t know is that it’s not sexual to me. It pulls up a very ugly repressed emotions/mentality. I want to do whatever I can to fulfill her fantasies, but I’m pretty uncomfortable with mentally accessing that part of me far enough for ME to enjoy it. Is this a common feeling? How safe is it for me to try this out? And when can I call it quits, having done my duty?
She Said: First and foremost, the way you just phrased that to us is probably the perfect way to explain your feelings to your girlfriend. There’s a chance that she may just want to explore the s&m side of herself, and isn’t even sure if it’s going to be something she needs, in which case you’d be off the hook.
There’s also the chance that she thinks that somewhere deep inside, because of your former relationship, that you need some element of BDSM to be fulfilled. To me, this is a case of you two just needing to have an open-hearted conversation.
However, we wanted to reach out to our friend, Noah Brand from The Good Men Project and No Seriously What About Teh Menz, who knows more about less-mainstram sexuality than we do, in order to get you a more knowledgeable response. Hopefully between the three of us, we can help!
He Said: I know this question is about s&m, but forget about that aspect for a moment. Your girlfriend wants to try something romantically/sexually that you’ve tried in the past, aren’t particularly into now, and sort of object to personally. There’s nothing wrong with feeling the way you do, and you should not force yourself to do anything you’re not comfortable with. Additionally, your girlfriend would (most likely) not want you do anything that compromised your values, or even personal tastes.
On the other hand, you’re in a relationship, so compromise (often) and communication (always) are required. Sit down with your girlfriend and discuss your fears, goals, and ideas about this scenario. Make sure you get your thoughts out, and do your best to listen carefully. The two of you may have more common ground than you think. And the more open you are with each other, the better chance you give each other to succeed.
Now, a few words from our guest expert – Noah, take it away.
Noah Said: It’s hard to give specific advice without knowing specific details, but if I understand you correctly, you’re saying that you’re worried about being an abusive top. (You are the top in these scenarios?) Rather than just being a fun kinky thrill for you, you’re worried that this kind of power play taps into a darker and more dangerous part of your psyche. If that’s not actually your problem, please write in again and explain more and we’ll tackle the question again.
To answer your question, that’s not all that uncommon. Most conscious and responsible tops feel some level of tension between the enjoyment of power and the fear of abusing it. Sounds like in your case that tension’s a bit higher than most, but that’s not necessarily an insurmountable problem. The solution is the solution to literally almost all kink problems: communication, limits, and boundaries.
First and foremost, talk openly with your girlfriend about her specific fantasies and your own feelings. Do the things she wants even overlap with the things you fear doing? Did you just start to answer that question without asking her first? You say she doesn’t know about your repressed emotions, I say she probably should. Talk about these things very specifically and very honestly, with minimal “Oh, you know what I mean” or “I guess just anything” or phrases like that. The kink worksheet created by the great Cliff Pervocracy is a good starting point.
From there, you need to set clear limits and boundaries, and you must be clear that you are BOTH allowed to set those. You have every bit as much right to say “I’m not comfortable doing that to you” as she does to say “I’m not comfortable having that done to me.” It will help if you can do some trust exercises: the trust needs to go both ways. You need to know that she can safeword if she has to, that she can look out for her own safety and well-being, and she needs to know that you will respect her safeword, that you won’t go too far.
What I’m saying is that you may be wrong about not being able to explore this side of yourself safely, and you may also be wrong about not being able to enjoy power dynamics on a sexual level. With communication and boundaries, you can potentially construct a space for yourself and your girlfriend where you can both have a good time, and even if it doesn’t work, you’ll both be able to understand why, and learn from the experience without getting hurt.
Unless, of course, the nature of your problem is that you’re thinking “Communication? Boundaries? Safewords? I don’t want to do those things!” In which case you were right the first time, you’re a shitty top and should not play with anyone.
About She Said He Said
Why force yourself to do something that makes you really uncomfortable and isn’t pleasurable? … I feel like this advice would have been completely different if the LW was a woman whose boyfriend wanted her to try being a submissive in an S&M relationship, especially if she’d tried it before and didn’t like it because it called up too many dark feelings. In that case, I’m sure the advice would be “don’t do things you don’t like just to please your partner!” not, “Work through your feelings and try to deal with it!”
You must have missed the “First and foremost, talk openly with your girlfriend …” part?
I don’t see anyone being adviced to do anything they are uncomfortable with. Unless, that is, they are really uncomfortable talking about their pleasures and limitations.
I’m sorry. Didn’t realize the article was >2 weeks old.
We don’t talk often enough about how the top needs to also be able to safeword out, and negotiate what is safe, what is edgy, and what is out of the question. Dan Savage says we should be game, but that has to be balanced with what we can give without having given too much of ourselves, and with enjoyment. A real sadist gets off not on delivering pain as much as on knowing that the masochist enjoys being able to receive it. The masochist also relies on this cycle of energy, and gets off on knowing that the sadist enjoys delivering it in a consensual context. If either of you suspects the other is just going along, it will make it less pleasurable, maybe even impossible to enjoy. You can plug in “blowjob” or any other sex act, and it’s the same conversation. What do you want, and what are you willing, to receive, and to give? I think you have to draw a line somewhere before, What would suck less than losing my partner?
I think Justin’s really right here.
I disagree that we would’ve given different advice to a woman, but I can see why one would assume that – because there’s a presumption that she’d be the bottom.
Either way, I would always tell someone that they need to at least entertain the idea of trying to satisfy their monogamous lover’s desires. If they can’t, they can’t. But they need to look into why they don’t want to.
Everyone can always always always say no! And Justin’s right, we often ignore the top’s need for boundaries, assuming he/she is always wanting more, or even that she or he has no boundaries. For that reason, I was really glad that we got this question, and that Noah helped us answer it!
I agree to a degree with Sarah about this conversation being completely different if this was someone (not necessarily female) who was potentially being talked into a submissive position that they were not necessarily comfortable with. I agree the advice probably wouldn’t have been work through your feelings if it was flipped from top to bottom in the original letter.
I also agree with Justin that we don’t talk about the top needing boundaries. I got the impression from the letter as well that this wasn’t just dabbling with kink in the bedroom. That this was venturing into full Master/slave lifestyle. But that was just my impression.
That being said. I agree with Justin. If this is not something that he feels he is interested in at this point then it’s not really a good experience. Just going along does not make for a good top/Master. And in my experience someone who is not mentally engaged in what they’re doing as a top/Master and not mentally engaged in their bottom/slave can potentially let themselves get out of hand and I would go so far as to say depending on activity it can turn unsafe to not have an engaged partner. It’s something that does require a degree of consciousness to be involved in. Not something conducive to mindlessly riding the wave until it passes. I’m a switch. If I’m not mentally engaged in either role I won’t participate. And sometimes, honestly, I’m just not that interested in participating in the lifestyle and that’s ok too and I won’t let myself get talked into it if I’m not in the right frame of mind to do it.
Bail out now- unless she is the last woman on earth and the future of our race depends upon it….
Why would you consider working this hard on a “girlfriend” relationship- she’s already topping you,
shut up & take it if that’s what you dig or move on.
Wow, I am a little bothered by advice that says “you may be wrong…” about what you want sexually…or don’t want sexually even if you previously enjoyed it. I think it was missed that this type of relationship isn’t sexual for him. It was for entirely different reasons that he enjoyed and engaged in it. Reasons the writer of the letter isn’t comfortable with. I kind of thing the whole S&M thing is so popular right now because of the idolization in pop media that has taken place in recent years. If a woman wrote this letter, I doubt “you may be wrong…” would have even entered the picture.
Right you are Erin, this might be all ‘Fun and Games’ for her, but he’s required to do physically at least’ the same thing as if he was actually raping or sexually assualting her and THAT’S what makes him uncomfortable. Honestly, if I met a girl into that whole”50 Shades of Grey” senerio, I’d say “goodby” and move on!
@Erin- and we’re circling back to my observation on another piece about women being 3 or 4 moves ahead…..
First, I don’t think any of the three of us say he might be wrong about what he wants. I think we all agree that first both partners need to communicate…. LIke about a thousand times more than they are now.
Second, I think Noah in particular wants to encourage the letter writer to think more deeply about what made him not want to engage in Master/Slave relationships again, and then to discuss that with his girlfriend so that she truly understands. He may find that through openness and growth he can enjoy some S&M again, or he may find that he isn’t in a place to be in that type of sexual relationship. Either way, it’s not a denial, it’s a suggestion to dig deeper – for both of them – sexually, or not.
With anonymous questions on the Internet we have to do a lot of extrapolation, and based upon the fact that he even asked, we presume that if just saying “no thanks” were easy and simple didn’t get the job done.
Communication is good but I guess I just had kind of a negative reaction to Noah telling this guy that he might be “wrong” about his feelings. I know you said you would have given the same advice to a woman, but I find it hard to believe that you would tell a woman that she might be “wrong” about her aversion to doing something sexual that she doesn’t like. Here, it seems like he’s tried S&M, he clearly isn’t into it, he is extremely uncomfortable with the whole thing, and that should be the end of it.
I suppose my advice would be, he needs to find out from her if this is a deal breaker. If she can’t live without S&M, they probably aren’t sexually compatible.
The general ‘jist’ I get from these ‘He Said, She Said” colums is that if the woman wants it and the man doesn’t, he’s told to ‘give it a try’. If the reverse is true ,however, the guy is told no way, forget about it, and move on.
run, don’t walk away from this woman. Accepting either position ( submissive or dominant) inevitable means that the relationship which ought to be one of mutually respecting equals, will be warped from the start.
I think the most important thing to bear in mind here is that you do not have to (and, in fact, should not) do anything sexually that makes you uncomfortable or unhappy for your girlfriend’s sake.
The letter’s kinda vague about the circumstances of your previous master/slave relationship (why did you decide to have this kind of relationship in the first place? why did it end? what about it didn’t work for you? etc.), it would be a good idea to talk about this stuff with your current girlfriend.
You need to find out why she broached the subject too, as discussed above. Was it because it’s what she wants or because she thinks it’s what you want?
Basically, you guys need to talk about this, lots. And in the event that you decide to incorporate any kind of BDSM play in your sex life, you need to bear in mind that the important thing isn’t being anyone else’s idea of a ‘true dominant’ or a ‘good submissive’ – the important thing is that the sex you have is enjoyable for everyone involved and that it’s just one aspect of an otherwise healthy and happy relationship.