Dr. Ley argues that the oft-blamed trope of “sex addiction” isn’t real.
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Almost anywhere you turn these days, if a man’s sexuality is news, it is usually news in a bad way. In the media, when a man gets in trouble for making bad decisions around sex, he is invariably called a sex addict. Between 85 and 95% of all so-called sex addicts are men. I don’t believe that sex addiction is real, and in fact, I call it a myth. But more than that, I believe that the concept of sex addiction represents an attack on male sexuality. Not only are almost all supposed sex addicts male, but all of the allegedly addictive sexual behaviors are behaviors that are predominantly engaged in by men. These behaviors include masturbation, use of pornography, prostitutes or sexual entertainment like strip clubs. Promiscuity, sex without commitment, and use of sex to manage stress or tension are also things that are frequently a part of male sexuality, whether we like it or not. But, male sexuality is not a disease, it is not evil, and it does not overpower men’s lives and choices.
In sex addiction, there is a common perception of male sexuality as intrinsically selfish, as overly focused on “scoring” and sexual conquests, on anonymous, “soulless” sex, and on the outward manifestations of virility. But there are other, neglected sides of male sexuality. Men are actually far more focused upon women’s needs, and upon closeness with women, than we give them credit for. Nancy Friday wrote that “Men’s love of women is often greater than their love of self.” Men give up friends and male camaraderie and accept a life of economic support of women, even leading up to an earlier death, all in order to be with women. More than half of all men describe that their best sexual encounters came when they “gave a woman physical pleasure beyond her dreams.” Men redirect their selfishness away from their own satisfaction, and toward a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment, by giving sexual satisfaction. Male sexuality often involves an intense focus on the needs of their partners, and men gain great pleasure, even a strong sense of manliness, from giving their lover sexual pleasure.
In fact, men’s desire to sexually satisfy their partners comes at the price of their own satisfaction. When a man is unable to make his partner orgasm, many men report incredible frustration, disappointment, and self-doubt. Women even complain that men put so much pressure and intent upon helping the woman achieve orgasm that the act ceases to be pleasurable and starts to feel more like childbirth. In such cases, women fake orgasms, not for themselves, but to satisfy their partner’s needs. Until a woman has an orgasm, a man doesn’t think he’s done his job, and his masculinity hangs in the balance.
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Men are taught from a young age that they must be sexually competent and sexually powerful with exaggerated and impossible ideals. Surveys of sex in America find that, compared to women, men are far more insecure and anxious about their sexual performance. Nearly 30 percent of men fear that they ejaculate too soon, and one man in every six reports significant feelings of anxiety about his sexual abilities to satisfy his partner. These are huge burdens that men carry, and are just one reason why many men pursue other forms of sex.
Recent sociological research found that men actually experience greater pain than women from the ups and downs of romantic relationships. These researchers found that not only did the negative aspects of a romantic relationship hurt men more than women, but the positive aspects and benefits of that relationship also have greater impact upon the man than the woman. Because women are better able to access outside support from friends and family, they often fare better than men, who are typically isolated, burdened with the expectation that they shouldn’t feel pain, or if they do, they must suffer alone.
For men, physical affection and sex is one of the main ways we feel loved, accepted, and regarded. For many men, it is only through physical love that we can voice tenderness and express our desire for togetherness and physical bonding. Only in sex can we let down boundaries and drop our armor enough to be emotionally vulnerable.
Sex plays an even greater role in the lives of men as a form of acceptance and mutual regard than it does for women. Women touch each other all the time, with hugs, holding hands, closer body contact, and smaller “personal space.” Men shake hands. Really good friends might, at best, punch each other in a loving way, do a careful “man hug,” or even swat each other’s buttocks, if it’s during an approved masculine sporting event. So the body-to-body contact that sex offers feeds an appetite, a craving, one that is often starved near to death in men.
Everybody today seems to accept that men seek sexual variety, and that this is “just the way men are.” This concept originates in evolutionary theory, where the argument goes that men seek to spread their sperm far and wide, with as many women as possible, in order to reproduce as much as possible. In contrast, women are generally disposed to seek out “quality” in their mates, rather than quantity, given that it is a lot more work for a woman to reproduce than for a man.
But most people don’t know the rest of the story. The fact that men masturbate more than women and pursue activities like pornography, prostitutes and strippers are all ways that men express that sexual drive for variety without having to invest the enormous time and resources needed to meet the approval qualifications of most women. There are other, more subtle side-effects as well, such as the fact that men tend, on average, to be larger than women. This is a downstream effect of evolutionary pressure, as a larger size helps a man secure more mates and fight off competitors. But another consequence of this is seen in the many men who die in their youth from doing unbelievably stupid, risky things (the show Jackass comes to mind), as well as the fact that men die, on average, at least ten years before most women. These risky behaviors represent high-risk, high-payout reproductive wagers by the forces of genetics, where successful men gain the opportunity for reproduction, and successful genes are passed on.
Within the sex addiction model, there is intent to “separate the behavior from the person,” and to split men from their sexual desires. Male sexuality is portrayed as something that men must guard against, and describe it as though it is a demonic force, lurking within our souls, which must be constrained, feared and even rejected. Men are portrayed as powerless to control themselves, in the face of sexual arousal that is too strong. As a result, men are told to be ashamed of the sexual desires that society and sex addiction theory has called unhealthy. But an essential part of man is lost when we encourage men to split themselves from their sexuality.
Unfortunately, as we teach men to be men, to understand, accept, and express their masculinity, we rarely attend adequately to the loving, nurturing, and amorous side of men. The most positive way that society and media currently portray male sexuality is when it is depicted as bumbling and stupid-making, a force that turns men into fools, easily led by our penises. But more often, male sexuality is depicted as a force that hovers just on the edge of rape, rage and destruction. The sex addiction myth argues that healthy men must reject many parts of male sexuality, such as our desire for non-intimate sex, our use of sex to meet personal needs, even our view of sex as fun and exciting.
I disagree. What is necessary for a healthy man, for a complete masculinity, is the integration, consolidation, and incorporation of these aspects. When we try to split off our desires for love and sex from ourselves, excising them from ourselves as something external and dangerous, we run the real risk of creating men without compassion, without tenderness, and without the ability to nurture. It is easy to suggest that what we are trying to excise are the base, primitive parts of men’s eroticism, those desires to rape, dominate, and satisfy oneself selfishly, but in truth, those desires, as frightening as they can be, are integrally linked to male emotional desires for safety, acceptance, and belonging.
Those things that make men admired and respected—their strength, courage, independence, and assertiveness—are the same things that contribute to the differences in male and female sexuality. By condemning these characteristics, we run the real and frightening risk of abolishing qualities that are essential to healthy masculinity.
A healthy sexual male is one who accepts and understands his erotic and sexual desires, along with his drive for success, dominance and excellence. Healthy sexual choices come from internal acceptance and awareness, not rejection and shame. Research has shown that all men have the ability to exercise control over their levels of sexual arousal and sexual behavior, but no men can fully suppress their sexual desire. Healthy men can be men who go to strip clubs, visit prostitutes and watch pornography. They are men who make conscious choices, accepting the consequences of their actions.
Wilt Chamberlain was famously promiscuous, bedding thousands of women across his career and life. A shy, excluded kid, Wilt grew into a star. But he never chose to marry, making the conscious choice that promiscuity was important to him, and that he could not ethically commit to a single woman. Though he slept with many more women than any of the alleged sex addicts we hear about, Wilt was never called a sex addict, because his sexual choices were part of him, part of who he was, as a man. This is, I think, the goal for all men – to make their sexual choices an integrated part of who they are, and the kind of man they desire to be.
Photo—william.neuheisel/Flickr
Well, ok, then.
If a man can’t make a woman orgasm, perhaps he could take the effort to learn? Instead of going off with prostitutes or random sex partners. Maybe, just maybe, pay attention to her body language, what she says, non verbal cues. Ask her, maybe go down on her. Do men think getting pumped from behind and giving head leads to mind shattering orgasms for women? If so, no wonder they are in a state of confusion and insecurity over their inability to pleasure a woman!
Useful info for some but what about women who can’t orgasm alone, let alone with a man, where nothing he does can bring her to orgasm? Sometimes it’s not the other person’s fault. Hell I’ve been on medication and received oral sex for over an hour without orgasm, wasn’t her fault, it was the side effect of the medication which inhibited orgasms. I’m sure there are plenty of reasons why people have difficulty reaching orgasm and not all of them actually involve the partner at all.
Just described over 90% of the straight American males. American men are SUPER SHIT in bed.
While this article presents some very positive aspects of male sexuality in some aspects it’s premised on the idea that so long as a man is honest with himself then what he does is ok.
I agreed with this to an extent until it came to promiscuity. No promiscuous man is honest with all of his sexual partners. Promiscuity is a self seeking, not self sacrificing, activity. For every promiscuous man there is a victim who thought he really meant it when he said “I love you.”
“things that are frequently a part of male sexuality, whether we like it or not” There is so much truth in this article that I can’t respond to it all. But I will point out that the notion of men caring more about wome than we do ourselves as referenced in the quote from Nancy Friday is one that has changed in many young men, myself included. We have accepted that marriage most often ends in divorce and ensuing financial ruin for men and while we are still attracted to women, we won’t go quietly to the wholesale slaughter currently… Read more »
Jesus, thank you for making me gay!
Live without sex? Well I could but I wouldn’t want to. I don’t pretend to like it because I really do like it. And I also like the thrusting and think giving oral can be quite erotic..just as Sarah said. I also like the weight of a man ontop of me, his sounds and faces. Do I *always* feel like having sex? I don’t. But I don’t want to live without it either. There have been times when I didn’t *feel* like doing something right away but if my boyfriend gave me time to warm up and was fun and… Read more »
I believe sex addiction is real, but very rare. We’re on a witch hunt over it because, as always, America responds to thorny issues that involve pleasure with hysteria.
See, it’s funny because I think sex addiction is more around then we know. While I do agree that sex addiction is overly exploited in the cases of men in the lime light being called out for it, I do think that among us regular people, sex addiction is probably much more an issue then we want to deal with. We’ve gone from being over chaste about sex and have tipped the scale the other way to a “free-love-do-whatever-makes-you-feel-good” way of life.
Eyelean,
I dont think every man accused has an addiction, but i think it’s becoming more and more common, esp with porn addiction. I mean nowadays we have 12 year old boys going to the hospital for dehydration because they spent the day watching porn. And also grown men with hernias from constant masturbation. Men leaving the living breathing wife/gf in bed alone so he can have fun at the computer. That unfortunately is the present and will become even more common in the future. But I’m sure women will just be expected to tolerate it.
I mean nowadays we have 12 year old boys going to the hospital for dehydration because they spent the day watching porn. And also grown men with hernias from constant masturbation. Bullshit. Without a source, those sound like urban legends, but even if you could show documented cases to back up those claims, you would have to show evidence of them being commonplace occurrences for your “Nowadays we have…” generalizations to hold true. Otherwise, they’re just stories of medical curiosities, not trends or epidemics. And even if those unusual things happened somewhere, it would be rather sensationalistic to claim that… Read more »
“You mean that living breathing wife/gf who isn’t in a state of constant readiness and willingness to have sex? Would you prefer he force himself on the woman he loves and respects whether she’s in the mood or not?”
This is where a lot of the social narrative surrounding relationships and porn pisses me off. There’s this ridiculous expectation that both people in a relationship will have the exact same libido, and if they don’t, then the person with the higher libido should just suffer through it. So pretty much yeah, Marcus, I’m agreeing with you.
Marcus said: “You mean that living breathing wife/gf who isn’t in a state of constant readiness and willingness to have sex? Would you prefer he force himself on the woman he loves and respects whether she’s in the mood or not?” Why do women have to be in a constant state of readiness and willingness to have sex for her man to perhaps exercise a bit of self control? I’m not saying a man should never masturbate. But I find the arguement strange when it’s pitted on the back that women need to always be up and willing to have… Read more »
I’m sure women 200 years ago didn’t need romance novels, dildos, vibrators, porn, and a whole host of other masturbatory aids yet some women use them today. What did men do before? Probably fantasized about other women as much as they do now except they used glimpses in their memories, playboys, catalogues, pictures of movie stars, etc. Perhaps men of before were shamed into masturbation being naughty, dirty, sinful so they masturbated less. Perhaps they saw hookers, or perhaps women had more sex with them, perhaps they simply didn’t do anything or did a hobby to cope. I think it’s… Read more »
Dildos have been around a very long time.
Well there you go. Masturbatory aids for both genders seem to have been around a long time. I’ve often wondered if men truly were more visually turned on, or benefitted more from visual based porn vs women. I’ve heard women tend to like romance novels and the written word porn more, not sure if its true. So that could be a reason visual porn is more popular with men. I also wonder if it’s simply along the way men were socialized into liking the visuals more and what effects that has had? I know for myself that I can be… Read more »
Archy, I get it. “They do it too!” So why get into the specifics of men when you can point to the other direction and justify everything under the umbrella of “they do it too” right? It’s a common argument. I’m of the personal believe that not everything between men is 50/50 all the time. There are issues women face that can be common to their femininity and there are issues men face that can be common to their masculinity and how each gender doesn’t always fully accept or understand one another. But if we are forever going to use… Read more »
“Porn is often about young 18 year olds dressing up in school girl outfits being told what a four letter name she is while on all fours.” Okay, I’m not addressing the rest of your comment here, because it’s wicked long. I’m just addressing this bit that I quoted. For some reason, no matter what we tell you, you are unable to view porn as anything other than abusive. Most porn is not like that; most porn is not like what you described in your quote. We’ve had this discussion, and yet you are still basing a lot of your… Read more »
No matter what “we” tell you? Because the way you see, this collective “we” (you and Archy?), something is the right way and the way I see it is wrong? Who said? We disagree here HeatherN. I used the very real stereotype to describe porn because that is exactly what a lot of porn is. Minus the school girl skirts or not. I am not ignoring all the vast amount of other sub genra’s of porn out there. Most porn has a very stereotypical archetype. I do not think porn is the equal oppurtunity entity you do. Is this where… Read more »
There are plenty of issues in which there is no right or wrong answer, and where perception does matter…and where different perceptions can both be valid. The problem is that this isn’t one of those times. You can argue that the type of porn your talking about is problematic…that’s an opinion. The problem is that you are assuming the type of porn you’re talking about is what most porn is. And in order to make that claim, you’d need to provide data. On the other hand we (yes Archy and I) are saying that the majority of porn isn’t abusive,… Read more »
Porn, strippers and prostitutes are what I think the article is focusing on. Those professions are a matter of supply and demand. If a man is with a woman or women that meet the level of his needs he really doesn’t have to go outside the bonds of the relationship. I think one of the original points being lost is the different levels of desire for sex. The expectations of the women seem to be that the man’s drive is wrong and needs to be brought down to the level comfortable for the woman which involves changing the basic driving… Read more »
I’m with you, except for the way that you’re gender essentialising. The idea that “women can civilize a man” or that men have a higher sexual drive are huge generalizations. Some men have higher sex drives, and some women do. Some men have multiple partners, and some men do, etc, etc.
HeatherN said: ” And in order to make that claim, you’d need to provide data.”
I need to provide data to support my claims but you don’t HeatherN? I see. Interesting.
Erin, I could provide links to a bunch of different porn sites that provide a range of porn…but I’m thinking you’d not really want to look at them all. I’m simply saying that porn is diverse, which isn’t making a generalized claim so much as taking apart your generalized claim. I agree that the type of porn you keep referring to exists. I’m just saying a lot of other types of porn also exist and in great quantities. So yeah, for my data, I’d suggest you google amateur porn or real lesbian porn or “porn real couples.” Or for a… Read more »
Oh, porn sites is the data you want to use? Well, go ahead, provide the links to the porn sites. It’s not like I’ve never seen porn before. You think I am not familiar with the stuff that is out there. I’ve purposely made myself familiar with it because I had such issues concerning porn and my relationships for a long time. So I have done market research on it, you can say. You can email me privately though because GMP already believes this argument played out in this article. [email protected] By the way, it’s funny that you just told… Read more »
We don’t want to stifle discussion, but this is going in circles. Feel free to keep discussing it in private e-mail. Or, if anyone has something new to bring to the conversation that is great too.
“And if masturbation is being used to counter the uncomfortable feelings of stress, then masturbation is being used much like a drug to put the mind at ease for a short fix rather then dealing with the problem.” For me, I have an anxiety disorder so I can get too much anxiety at times, masturbation and orgasm basically kill down the anxiety massively. I’ve been nervous before a surgery and I’ve masturbated, it reduced me from very jittery to quite calm. I also use it for the days where I am TOO anxious, it allows me to continue on the… Read more »
This article is very interesting when placed against the backdrop of a feminist movement to encourage women to live promiscuous lifestyles. Look, I know its about choice, but bottom line, how do you expect men to respond to the avialibility of all that sex? You expect him to be faithful? You expect men to even want to ever settle down? I wish the pop feminsts of today would at least take the time to think about how men will naturally react to a world that rewards men for sexually attractive qualities and punishes them for being a virtuous man. To… Read more »
But a lot of guys posting on this website complain that sex is not all that available; women are supposedly so picky and judgmental that only a tiny minority of men ever get laid, apparently.
Hi Sarah,…we are dealing with a very touchy subject between men and women…lets just say we are trying to get it right. As for your comment, I’ll have to say, and very few comments mean much to my wisdom, that what you are hearing of available loving sex…yeppers…there isn’t much for many men…hardly ever for
many..
So I see a lot of women writing about not wanting “to settle”, or resigning themselves “to settle” for a man, who apparently isn’t quite up to their standards. What’s this about? It seems like this fits with what Ray, others are saying, that 90% of women are looking for those 10th percentile of men. Muscular, big career with money, “good men”, idk.. . It seems very patriarchal to me actually. Alpha males. To me, it seems like dating sites, people often have a consumer-shopping mentality they bring to relationships. They have a long-ish list of features to exclude almost… Read more »
“10th percentile of men”
I mean top 10%. 90th percentile.
Allan–I think you might be misunderstanding what ‘settling’ means from many women’s point of view. I actually hear a lot of men saying, “I have money, I work out, I have skills and talents and dogs…why do women disrespect me?” For many women, it’s not about a ‘list of traits,’ but about chemistry and getting along. The last time I had list of criteria was before I ever had an actual relationship. I’ve learned a lot since. I completely agree with what Dan Savage says–that the more criteria you have, the more life and good people you miss out on.… Read more »
Muscular, big career with money, “good men”, idk.. . It seems very patriarchal to me actually. Alpha males.
Well, yes,of course a lot of women like those qualities in a man.
@ Sarah: I like to think “discerning,” not picky. It may be that women perceive the totality of flaws and damaged potentialities that make a man unsuitable, in the last analysis, for her bed. Many of these shortcomings bear some connection, in my opinion, to Dr. Ley’s short summary of the lack of what you might call erotic preconditioning in men in Anglo-Saxon societies: limits on touching, expressions of warmth, tenderness, noncompetitive companionship, etc. These are all debits we expect women to make good on, it seems. Mostly by sleeping with us, possibly by loving us in some other fashion.… Read more »
@ Ray: Having democratic expectations for sex is a bad idea. The talents are as unevenly distributed as in any meaningful field. The exceptions reap the glories. Why should an average man believe he’s got high returns coming on his averageness? I think that feminism wounded this conceit, and wounded it deeply. It dissolved a private (hence ultimate) source of confidence for middling men everywhere that no matter what, they were entitled to pick from the high shelves of womanhood. Feminism reimposed averageness on that great mass of American men vicariously participating in the heroic exploits of a few. Average… Read more »
Thanks Ray,
Pop feminists dont seem to get that men are more sex oriented and less relationship oriented. They dont seem to get that men are not women!
I especially enjoy that you believe it is the woman’s responsibility to keep A Man’s actions in check. “Look, I know its about choice, but bottom line, how do you expect men to respond to the avialibility of all that sex? You expect him to be faithful? You expect men to even want to ever settle down?” Just because it’s there doesn’t mean you need to take it. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. Do you have such low opinions of males to truly believe they have no self-discipline? that the only way for a man to reject… Read more »
“you would understand the inner struggle in a man torn by his natural instict in a world where women now provide easy access to sex, and his desire to be a good man as well.” The same struggle women face. Females have natural instinct to sleep around. Human females are always in heat, and they are always looking for the best male… and then the other best… and the other… Sex is not reward, though. That you think so just makes you pathetic. In fact, in nature it’s mostly females who have these great orgies with many males. Female nature… Read more »
“Healthy men can be men who go to strip clubs, visit prostitutes and watch pornography” I am not of the belief that all these things are necessarily bad things, but as they way they currently operate in MAINSTREAM society, they are arguably very bad for women. While I don’t want to demonize men or their desires, how can we say that a man with a healthy sexuality is one who actively participates in activities that degrade and bring down women? Please note, I am not saying that men should be punished for having many partners or for viewing pornography or… Read more »
Otherwise, I was actually quite taken with the article up until that point.
“However, to say that healthy men can engage in certain activities because it meets their sexual needs feels dismissive of all the complexities and issues that arise from mainstream sex work, strip clubs and pornography (complexities and issues that affect men as well as women).” How many of these complexities arise from the social (and in the case of prostitution, legal) stigma associated with them? If there was more transparency and perhaps regulation of these industries, there’d be less room for exploitation. Instead prostitution is largely illegal in the west, strip clubs and pornography is viewed as an already ‘dirty’… Read more »
And if you were to go to a men’s 12-step sex addicts group and listen to the stories, you’ll hear of boys who grew up neglected and sexually abused, who never got help dealing with that or growing up into “healthy men”, good relationships.
It’s all very self-fulfilling.
Where I live there are legal brothels, regulated with guards, safe sex is mandatory, etc. So if I went to that brothel, would it be degrading or demeaning the worker? The fact that some porn is degrading doesn’t make all porn degrading, that’d be as silly as assuming movies are degrading because someone filmed a kid being bullied. When a man looks at porn it doesn’t mean he has to look at mainstream porn, nor degrading porn. As others have commented here it seems amateur porn is the most popular amongst the GMP commentators and I reject any notion that… Read more »
@ Archie
To your question:
Yes.
It degrades you both.
That’s why brothels have guards: to keep the reaction to a repellent soul experience below the nauseated rage one might expect.
Masculine Sexuality: What Gets Overlooked The number one thing that gets overlooked is that we wait for men to DO everything, while women sit around and JUDGE. In 2012, we still have almost all women (and even most so-called feminists) waiting for men to do all the work in initiating, getting, finding and making sex happen – and then they get to bash the men for stuff they refuse to do. Until we start tackling the big elephant in the room, female laziness, I am wary of articles talking about “overlooked this overlooked that” where everyone keeps ignoring the number… Read more »
Wow, this is a hostile comment. Sad to see things like this on a site called GOOD MEN Project.
Yes, I agree the hostility isn’t very appropriate. From him… But I notice you’re advice on how men can meet outdoorsy women, at http://geargals.com/2011/10/25/how-to-properly-meet-outdoorsy-women/ seems to be all recommended behaviors for men, actions, (“Take the initiative to create a connection.”, Ask for a phone number. A date. An email address.”, “Be up front about liking her. “) while commenting about not being “swarmy”. And rather judgemental polarity about negative behavior like “Don’t gaze at her bike and drool”, “treated like freaks of nature”, “incredibly shallow”, “turn tail and run”… There’s almost a hostility I sense from you about men’s behavior.… Read more »
Even if women asked men out more often, there’s no guarantee they would ask you out. 🙂
The truth is, we live in a world where 90% of the men are pursuing 10% of the women and 90% of the women are pursuing, or waiting to be asked out by, 10% of the men. And a lot of people are going home alone.
Sarah, why don’t more women understand this? When feminists speak of the so called “double standard” don’t they realize that when they say “men” are deemed “studs” and admired for their sexual conquests, what they are really thinking of is this small slice of the male populatuion that they themselves worship! And of course other men admire that 10%. The vast majority of men are shut out of the sexual marketplace but you don’t hear feminists talking about their plight. The average (or below average) women has a sexual power that the 90% of men could only dream of. Yet,… Read more »
I agree that in theory it is far easier for women to find a sexual partner, if ALL they want is sex. Heck, men want sex so badly they will pay money for it. I think most women however don’t just want anyone with a d*ck, they want to feel a connection, even if it’s just a casual hookup. Most women will reject a man immediately if they don’t feel a “spark.” I’m making a generalization but I think most women will tolerate sexual frustration rather than have sex with just anyone who comes along. What men have to do… Read more »
I wonder if most women would need a spark for George Clooney, Tom Brady, or Brad Pitt? Sarah2 is correct. However, average guys like me are having a ball. Not bragging but I do not have trouble getting women. Why? I listen to them. I get them to talk (usually about themselves). I express interest in them. Look her in the eyes. Make her feel special. I create some “sparks!” Eventually ignition will occur with some. Most guys just don’t have any game. Sorry. I can even get some of those 10%. Many are lonely and simply need a friend.… Read more »
@ Sarah2
Totally agree!
And 99 percent of male complaints show how hard it is for us to get over that.
Aleknovy:
“waiting for men to do all the work in initiating, getting, finding and making sex happen”
Sorry, that’s how courtship goes. Men tend to be hornier and oftentimes warm up to women than the other way around (think about, it’s men who are much much more likely to fall in love at first sight), so of course, they do most of the initial work.
It’s not laziness or passivity. Think of it in this term. A person has to eat but the food is scarce and has to go out and capture/kill/attain what is needed. Imagine if this person instead had food showing up on the door step every morning. Do you think that this same person would continue to go out day after day to hunt for something that is practically handed to them? People tend to work smart, not hard. What person would go searching/hunting for a need that shows up on their front door every morning? In a nutshell, it’s all… Read more »
David Ley, I am a medicine man and a Shaman. You expressed exactly the same message I have had so much trouble sharing with human beings. I am rarely understood. Your workstudy on man sexuality is expressed well. Others can “pick through” your meanings, yet, as a genuine man, I could not have expressed it more clearly. My acceptance of your truth means I have experienced and lived in every word and felt the deep grief of all of what you speak of. Thank you. for being my voice. I have twin brother, a master in his own right in… Read more »
Why do men think that women buy sex toys? Because their men do not satisfy them.
You’re view of men and sex toys seems to be the same. And like any product, you throw it away without a second thought when it quits being useful.
No one feels good in that kind of relationship. You obviously don’t.
I think some women use toys because they are single
*shrug*
And some men and women use sex toys together…
Esperanza, I totally agree with you. You made more sense than any male in this forum. Men are always trying to cover up the fact that they need and desire sex much much more than women. Listen men, we women are just not made like you. We can go quite a long time without sex. In fact, some of us can live without it. It is not that important to most of us. Some women will not admit it, but they really don’t like it. When you think they want it, believe me, they are trying to make themselves like… Read more »
Well, as a woman, I pretty much disagree with everything you say. I actually enjoy the “thrusting,” and giving a blow job can be quite erotic.
I really do not think any of these aspects of male sexuality are overlooked in this society. Everywhere we look, there seems to be some woman displayed whose only purpose is to titillate male sexuality. There is no shortage of prostitutes, strippers and porn available. None of it is hidden anymore, so I do not know where does society shame men for their behavior… I do not know what this article is supposed to demonstrate beside trying to make women accept all aspects of male sexuality, no matter who gets hurt in the process, whether it be their significant other… Read more »
My own over-generalization is I think we need a lot of sex positive education and not nearly so much shaming. There’s a lot going on in all this…
I went to a little workshop tonight in fact on female G spot stimulation and female ejaculation. It was nice to see a number of men there. I love the matter of fact attitude, style of the presenter, a woman who’s the owner of a sex toy shop. It’s all very affirming of women and everyone.
I’m sorry to hear that, but it’s not right to generalise all men by your husbands standard and assume that women aren’t capable of doing the same things.
“I too would like to have at my disposal a young sexy man, eager to please me sexually. It seems to me that all this fuss about prostitutes and strippers has more to do with male entitlement to have access to young and sexy women’s bodies than anything else.” So….seek the services of a sex worker? Are there no legal brothels where you live? Sign up to the various sex-orientated online “dating” services? I’m sorry you didn’t find men who fit the muster but is it really fair to generalize them all based on that? Would it be fair for… Read more »
I would not seek the services of a sex worker. I know sex is being seen by many as just another commodity, but I am personally not comfortable with the idea of paying someone to be such intimate with me. I see sex as being the most intimate act that exists; you touch, taste, exchange fluids, are being penetrated by another person, you can not have more intimate than that. When I said I would like someone eager to please me, I meant genuinely eager, money obviously ruins that. Yes, I have desires, but they are not needs (and even… Read more »
If men are less ashamed of their sexuality and the drives they have which could result in harm and/or disrespect toward women (such as rape, and less severely, flagrant staring) would the direct result be moral decay? I think this article could be more effective if it discussed the moral conditioning of individuals involved as opposed to just the evolutionary theory regarding male sexuality.
So sexism toward women is ‘patriarchy’. But sexism toward men is ‘moral conditioning necessary to prevent moral decay’. And men are evil by the nature of our evolution.
Troll, or just lacking in self-awareness?
I say this because it’s just a total mirror-image of what your average 1890’s – 1950’s conservative would say about their sexism, that women possess unnatural urges and emotions that, if left unchecked, would lead this country down the dark path of moral decay.
If there’d been some hint of snark, I’d have thought she was clever.
What makes you assume rape is part of most men’s sex drive?! Did you ever think to consider that most men are probably more likely to want consentual sex and regularly?
I would think that desire for consentual sex is partly societal. I have no stats to back up this but If you were to look at the numbers of women raped when rape was legal compared to the numbers now. I would bet they have gone down. But it seems that many people do things out of societal morality because there are plenty of things that men and women (if they were honest) do BECAUSE they know they can/will get away with it. If you were to live in a time (the not so distant past) where husbands were legally… Read more »
You said ” Not only are almost all supposed sex addicts male, but all of the allegedly addictive sexual behaviors are behaviors that are predominantly engaged in by men. These behaviors include masturbation, use of pornography, prostitutes or sexual entertainment like strip clubs. Promiscuity, sex without commitment, and use of sex to manage stress or tension are also things that are frequently a part of male sexuality, whether we like it or not. But, male sexuality is not a disease, it is not evil, and it does not overpower men’s lives and choices.” But what about when it DOES? Should… Read more »
Sarah, a possible reason those behaviours are mostly male could be simple economics. A sex addict female probably has a much much much much much easier time finding willing partners if we are to believe stereotypes (however based on what I hear from people I think this one is probably true). IF this is true it may simply mean sex addicted women can get laid easily, the guys find it harder and thus need to seek out other methods to get their fill.
I was never left with the impression that anyone was saying that porn, strippers and prostitutes were “new” to our society. While the world is no stranger to such matters, we live very short lives relative to the history of the world. And some of us probably live at least our first 10 years, (perhaps even our first 15-20 if you lived more of a sheltered life), not knowing a lot of what goes on in the world of adults and sexuality. I didn’t really know men looked at porn until I was 20+ and began dating men more seriously.… Read more »
So first, I wasn’t saying that porn, etc can be put into the same context in ancient societies as it can be today. The narratives surrounding sex, relationships, gender etc are different in all societies…so naturally the narratives surrounding porn, etc are different in all societies. My point, is that the simple existence of porn is not some great evil of our age, which is how I’ve seen the conversation framed sometimes. As for the type of porn you’re talking about…I think you’re ignoring the great variety in porn. Frankly it’s kind of interesting that we have developed a stereotype… Read more »
I guess whenever I hear someone mention the old, “Porn was around since ancient times”, I ususally think they are saying this to illsturate a normalized state about porn. And I think it’s the wrong way to go in the context of the human condition and the society we live in today. I have never seen any commentary that pointed to the existence of porn being a great evil of our age. I just think that a significant number of people both like porn and encounter many issues with porn. I am not ignoring the great vareity of porn actually.… Read more »
“And no amount of “real” couples making love and expressing their love for each other, overrides the reality of the ugliness I think is the majority of the industry. I also am curious if what is being watched most. I think that would give us an even bigger insight into things. ” I am a pretty huge consumer of porn and I can tell you that all I watch today is amateur. Mostly I am watching this: So I find it strange when people keep talking about the porn industry and how horrible it is. As for real couples…I don’t… Read more »
“And no amount of “real” couples making love and expressing their love for each other, overrides the reality of the ugliness I think is the majority of the industry.” Porn is much bigger than just the professional industry. The uglyness of the industry can be avoided all together, just depends where you visit. Even in the industry itself not all of it is bad, how much of it have you watched to safely believe most of it is bad? Did you actually watch it or did you hear it from others? If I want I can go to sites that… Read more »
@(R)Evoluzione’
Im still stuck on the fact that humans have been around for “millions” of years.. realllyy?? And using fire for at least a million years… were you homeschooled??
sorry i had to…
Come on now…my genius cousin was homeschooled, precisely because he’s so flipping smart even schools for gifted children were moving at too slow a pace for him. Mind, his mother was a teacher before she had kids, so that helped. Plus, he was homeschooled as part of like, a group program thing.
Sorry…just had to defend homeschooling…well some homeschooling.
Yes, Jake, fire for humans for one million years. I’ll leave out the superfluous commentary on your educational background. It would be too easy, and also violate the comment policy.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120402162548.htm
I think (hope) the author’s arguing for getting rid of the complex dynamics of shame around male sexuality, which are rife in some of the comments. Very often with sex in our culture, there the hidden specter of shame driving it. It drives addiction, blaming of men and women, the weapons of moral superiority. From helping a lot of men with sexual abuse issues, I find that those issues often the root of compulsive, harmful sexual choices. Deal with it all openly, the shame lessens in time, and men can make better, more conscious choices. “I’m curious how much the… Read more »
Julie, I guess I am hung up on the idea of what we “actively” do? When my mate is unhappy with something I’ve done, and I do make mistakes in relationships, I am not getting smiles and hugs at that moment and time. So is he “actively” withholding from me or is he giving me a natural response to my actions? Who is say which way it is? We work on the issue, we resolve it, and the smiles and hugs come back. I’m afraid we are getting overly PC in our culture where any critization from our partner about… Read more »
I think there is a difference between saying to a partner, “I don’t feel like smiling right now because I am angry at the situation x,y,z. I’ll get over it soon after we talk, but I need some space.” and “You made me so mad and there is no way in hell I’ll hang out with you, or…if you’d only do the thing I asked you do to then I’d be happy for you.” There are boundaries while staying connected and then there are manipulations while holding the threat of disconnection over your partner’s head. A place where I do… Read more »
Demonizing of men and male sexuality often appears when other groups are demonized. We may not notice that men are the target because they aren’t the main target. For example, there are forms of racism that embody fears of male sexuality at the same time. It was not very long ago that a black man in Mississippi could be lynched by a mob based on the rumor that he whistled at a white woman or that he had sex with a white woman. Of course that lynching was a product of a horrible form of racism, but/and it also involves… Read more »
I really liked the article. Maybe part of the problem a female commenter has with men viewing porn or visiting hookers is that she thinks it takes away from her value. The intense sexual feelings he feels for her aren’t the same feelings he has for the porn or the hookers. it’s comparing apples and oranges. We want to be valued and feel like we mean something to someone as the pinnacle in their lives. I think eventually we realize it’s ok for our partner to have other feelings for other people. it’s like how differently we love different people… Read more »
Annatasha, I am guessing that I’m the female poster you’re referring to. And that’s okay. I will not get into all the ins and outs of why I do not think things like porn, prostitutes and strippers are healthy. Only to say that I think these things both devalue women AND men. I also do not look at my partner’s friendships with other people such as his parents, his siblings, his best friends as offensive or something I need to compete with to be the “pinnacle” of. I love and encourage men that I have relationships with to have friends… Read more »
Recently I read a report by a woman who interviewed male patrons of strip shows. Many of them said that they went to a strip show to ‘feel desired’ even if they had to pay. I’ve heard one reason why men cheat is because they feel their partner does not desire them anymore. I’ve also read men describe wanting a ‘no-strings attached’ sexual encounter in order to affirm their sexual desirability. In other times and places women were considered the unchaste sex. What we see in those times is that women’s sexuality was seen as both less spiritual and capable… Read more »
I think Dr. Ley has made some really good points about the way that healthy male sexuality is demonized in our culture. So often, our popular ideas about men emphasize the dark side of male sexuality. We overlook the positive, loving, and creative side of male sexuality. Male sexuality IS a creative force, after all, just as female sexuality is a creative force. We have virtually no stories in our culture that celebrate positive male sexuality, compared to many, many stories (often written by men!) that portray male sexuality as scary, threatening, and harmful. Meanwhile, the “good men” are often… Read more »
That is a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that with us.
Good story. In many ancient cultures, fertility was symbolized by a male god and not a female goddess. A long, complicated story about how that changed, more complicated than the Da Vinci Code hash of it, but important to note how masculinity has in the past been seen as a creative force and not just a destructive force.
In another ancient Egyptian myth, the stars in the sky are pieces of a male god’s ejaculate. Not all old stories are rated PG.
I had to read this article a few times and ruminate on a few things. I’ve never read an article on GMP that I so totally agreed with in parts and so strongly disagreed with in other parts. Where I think the article is right on the money: The point about men being heavily invested in pleasing their female partners is a really crucial one that is often overlooked. Even when men want to give their partners pleasure and fantasize a lot about pleasing their partners, that’s often defined as selfish somehow. Of course it’s selfish a little bit, but… Read more »
Yuuuuuuuuuuup! Interestingly I was just thinking about this aspect of it: “Part of the fashion of labeling a male celebrity as a sex addict is our acceptance/assumptions about psychological issues.” A few years ago my uncle cheated on my aunt, and before the got a divorce they decided to go to marriage counselling first. The counsellor told my aunt that my uncle was simply addicted to sex, and therefore my aunt couldn’t blame him. Apparently it was up to my aunt to help my uncle overcome this addiction, and to remember to be sympathetic to the struggle my uncle was… Read more »
Scott – thanks for your read. This is obviously a tiny snapshot of the bigger issues I explore in The Myth of Sex Addiction. I agree with you strongly in fact – the concept of sex addiction is intrinsically bound into the social and cultural views of sex. This is one reason that sex addiction is not a concept in many other cultures, either typically macho, male-dominated cultures such as the Middle East or Africa (how can you call a polygamist sex addicted?) or Latin America, where the number of mistresses is a sign of virility, not moral deficiency. Secondly,… Read more »
Dr. Ley, do you think that it’s possible to have a society that celebrates male sexuality without marginalizing female sexuality, or visa versa? “Macho” or male-dominated cultures are often very negative places for women. In those cultures, such as the Middle East, female sexuality is the force that is seen as dangerously threatening, and is tightly controlled and repressed.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. On the evolution issue, I was not suggesting that natural selection or evolutionary theory has no good basis. Far from it. I was arguing that what a lot of people call “evolution” is not the actual scientific theory but is instead a simplified mythological view. Within much of the American public, “evolution” is really just another variant of creationism. There’s the creationist mythology of evolution, and it’s different from the scientific principle of natural selection or the actual science of biology. I’ve noticed that “evolutionary biology” gets tossed around a lot in debates about sex… Read more »
Dr. Ley, what more proof of evolution do you need? What other models fit the data?
Oh my God, the incredible self-pity on display here is just sad. Was there some point to this that I missed in between all the whining about how we poor men have it so very tough?
Ha! I’ve never felt more rooted in my power nor more empowered than I do at this time in history and in my life. And it’s only going to get better.