Dan Griffin married up, and if you’re lucky, you will too.
Last month, Mark D. White made some good points about how a professional woman may view, judge, and even castigate a man who does not share the same professional status, particularly when she makes more money than he does. Though it seemed over-simplified and written with some degree of hurt and anger, it raised an interesting point, and it got me to thinking, especially about an ex-girlfriend. The reality is that there are women who objectify men just as there are men who objectify women. However, two weeks later I found some additional information to add to the conversation. And some men (and maybe even women) won’t like it. I wouldn’t have liked it five years ago, but I have surrendered to some universal truths since then, making me a much happier man.
I was with some of my male friends and one of them—Rob—who has been married for over 25 years said that he walked into a friend’s house one day and saw a little saying hanging on a wall: “Most men marry up.” We all cracked up. Those of us who were married for some period of time (I have been married eight years now) also knew there was an element of truth to it. But what exactly did it mean—particularly in the context of the previous article?
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Many men would immediately interpret that little bromide as negative and disparaging of men. Oh…our fragile little egos. God forbid there be any reference that might somehow imply that men are not better than women or always their equal. Of course, this quote, if you pay attention, is not about superiority at all. Others might immediately assume it to be a socioeconomic reference—as in lower-class boy makes good by marrying socialite—a common theme in a lot of books and movies. But that was not what Rob meant.
We had been talking about all of the crappy things we have done in our lives and how we are different men today. We were looking at what it has taken for us to be the men we are today. We were reflecting on the important relationships that we have almost lost. We were also reflecting on the relationships that have helped us to be the men we are today—to rise above the emotional shortcomings from which so many of us suffer. Every one of us who was happily married (whether it was delusional on our part or not) knew that our wives often fit into both of those categories, and they played a critical role in our transformations from boys to men.
The most important ingredient in all of this is love—with a big ol’ capital “L.” There are so many comments and behaviors that would have such a different meaning if they were not done in the spirit of love. If my wife, Nancy, and I had not trudged through some of the incredible difficulties we were experiencing—most of them honestly brought upon our family by me—I would probably look back and see her in a much different light and be using much more colorful language to talk about her.
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When love is the active ingredient in so many of the difficult problems couples face, and we work through them, it changes the way we see and our ability to confront those problems. It changes what we allow to be said and to be done. There is an alchemy that takes place and we may not even see it as gold until much later.
Yes, Nancy has pushed me to deal with some serious issues I was not willing or able to look at before I met her. Yes, Nancy pushed me to live up to my potential and work harder for the things I said I wanted and wanted to accomplish. This included looking at my financial contributions because they were reflective of my fear of risking, my fear of trying, and even my fear of succeeding. Yes, Nancy pushed me to grow up in ways that I resisted and resented at first because we were stuck in the classic mother-son tug-of-war, but as we have been able to transform that energy, it is clear that her desire for me to grow up was warranted and has served me greatly (just as my desire for to her to lighten up and laugh, have served her greatly.) How did Nancy push me? By setting some pretty clear and definite boundaries with me and some bottom lines that I needed because I never got them when I was younger.
Nancy is not perfect but had I not “married up” and married a woman who was at the same place of emotional development as I was, my life would look a lot different. I cannot speak for any other man though I know many men can identify with what I am talking about. Yes, I clearly married up and I am so incredibly thankful that I did. But when I use that phrase, imagine a woman putting her hand out and helping me out of a hole that I did not even know I was living in. The greatest thing about it all is that I am now right up there with Nancy—now, I am “up” too—and the two of us together as a team and a family are awesome, constantly loving each other into our greatness. So, my final thoughts: get over it, guys. If you have the humility to let a great woman into your life, she will bring you into your greatness because that is one of the great ways that women serve the world. Yeah, I married up and If you are lucky, you will too.
—Photo seanmcgrath/Flickr
About Dan Griffin
The myth of the moral, emotionally and spiritually superior female. I’ve seen addicted men that were saved by their female partner, I’ve also seen emotionally toxic women that create problems for anyone that gets close to them..
The Victorian “angel of the house”. Women are morally equal to men.
Indeed – all the coupled gay men that I know keep a woman about for a “true north” moral compass. The woman is usually a loner from a lesbian couple. It all works quite well.
So men don’t have a moral compass?
From a feminist perspective, no. That is how most feminists see the world. Women are superior, men inferior. Most men have no moral compass and will never get one unless given to them by a woman.
Count on a MRA not to have a sense of humor or understand sarcasm.
“Yes, Nancy has pushed me to deal with some serious issues I was not willing or able to look at before I met her. Yes, Nancy pushed me to live up to my potential and work harder for the things I said I wanted and wanted to accomplish.”
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but shouldn’t all partners be able to help each other with their respective shortcomings, regardless of sex or gender? Not every man can “marry up”; some men, for some women, do what Nancy did for you, Dan. Sex and gender really have nothing to do with it. Believe it or not, this can happen with gay and lesbian couples too! Wow!
I used to be just like you. I joked that I “married up” all the time. My wife is beautiful and I am completely average looking. At the time, she was making near six figures and I was toiling away as a lowly journalist. All people could see—hell, all I could see—was a schlub who hit the jackpot and somehow landed a woman well out of my league.
Fast forward seven years. My wife is still gorgeous and I’m still average looking, but she fell on hard times and now I make the money. Whereas she helped me grow up a bit years ago, now I’m helping her find herself as her world completely changes. It’s cyclical, as is most of life.
The trick isn’t marrying up, it’s marrying smart.
This is a nice article. I like it very much. The only thing I worry about is that so many women seem to favor security and stability over, well, other things. I have seen men (including my own former husband) get trapped by that into a life I am not sure they really want…but they want to be good, “responsible” men and fathers. It’s rather sad to see…and I am sorry for the part I took in contributing my former husband’s situation.
It’s hard to knock security and stability. What’s the alternative — insecurity and instability? I think men and women, if they are sensible, should look for a partner who has his or her act together in life. The primary reason that couples get divorced (or so I’ve read) is conflict over money. So, having similar life goals, financial and otherwise, is essential to a successful relationship. Most people aren’t looking forward to a life of constant economic struggle. Most of the guys I know have no interest in supporting a totally dependent spouse; most women I know who took time off when they had children eventually went back to work. That’s just the reality in this day and age. When I read comments from guys complaining about “hypergamous” gold digging b$tches who want to leech off men, honestly I just don’t know any women who are like that. Actually, most women I know work pretty hard at their jobs, and they feel like the man in their life should be working hard too. So many of the commenters to these articles seem to be living in a kind of 1950′s mentality that I just don’t see when I look around.
Go ahead with the down votes now…
I have met one or two of the “hypergamous” types in my time. But since I know hundreds of women, I’d say that the gold-diggers are few and far between. Most women that I know are hard working, like your friends.
Most men don’t marry up, but some former addicts like yourself do. It’s generally pretty smart to marry up whether you are a man or woman, but the fact is most women (and not men) do. Most men don’t marry up. Simple fact of life. Just look at this other article on your site:
http://goodmenproject.com/good-feed-blog/75-of-women-wouldnt-marry-a-jobless-man/
That article that was used as the source for that link has been really misconstrued. A very similar percentage of the women polled said that they wouldn’t get married if they, themselves, were unemployed. It has less to do with women wanting sugar daddies than it does with women wanting a certain amount of security before they take up the expensive task of paying for a wedding and setting up a life with someone. Most of the women polled said that they, too, wanted to be employed before getting married. They’re not asking for a free ride from men at all.
Agreed! Also, wanting a partner to have a job is completely different than marrying “up.” The survey question was pretty generic. Most women want a partner who has goals in life and who can support himself, which usually requires a job; men want the same thing from women. In addition, if one person is out of work, it may be best to postpone marriage for awhile. That’s just good sense.
So some of your male friends married up, and you think that means “most men” do? Rubbish.
“he walked into a friend’s house one day and saw a little saying hanging on a wall: “Most men marry up.” ”
There is no way in hell I would ever have that up on my wall. It would indicate a lack of self-respect on my part, and disrespect on my hypothetical wife’s part.
Articles like this make me a bit angry. A lot of men feel that a romantic partner is responsible for making them “grow up.” Does it not occur to them that they can grow up on their own? It’s no one’s job to raise you except your parents – treating your significant other like your mom or your “moral compass” or your life adviser is a burden to her. Who wants to be in a relationship with a child? Who wants to be in a relationship with someone who is emotionally immature? Your emotional development is your own business. It’s something that everyone – man or woman – should work out on their own without relying too heavily on another person.
This romantic notion of a woman making someone into a better man leaves out some really unfortunate facts: 1) a man is responsible for his own moral growth and maturity and 2) “making” someone a better man is often a huge burden that comes at the expense of that person’s happiness.
Frankly, I find articles like this to be insulting to men. They’re not all little children wandering around acting like fools waiting for someone to force them to shape up. Some guys are actually capable of being adults on their own.
I’m not saying I agree with the premise of the article, but sometimes a person chooses to change for another person, so in effect without B person being around, A person would have no incentive to change and develop as a person. Ultimately, A person chooses whether or not to change, but sometimes we as people need an incentive to change, and other people can bring about that change. I changed my eating habits and sedentary lifestyle for ballet. If I didn’t have ballet, I likely wouldn’t have changed at all. So in effect, I can say ballet changed my life.
In good relationships, people are motivated to be their best self. Of course people can bring out the best in you. But that’s not the same thing as not having incentive without that relationship. There’s a difference between a relationship giving you insight and being dependent upon that relationship. I’ll use your ballet example: Ballet very may well have been the thing that gave you appreciation for you body, showed you the benefit of fitness, made you aware that your body is something to take care of. But, if you quit ballet tomorrow, you could still take that learning with you. You don’t need ballet to make you appreciate your body,
Do men not have motivation to be good except to satisfy women? I don’t think so. I think being a good, mature, emotionally responsible man should be a goal in and of itself – regardless of relationship status. Men can benefit from “growing up” in ways that have actually nothing to do with a woman. They should be motivated for their own reasons, and many are.
Thanks Amber – it was not even about incentive to change for me. It was me needing to heal some serious wounds from my past and it seems the only way I could do that was to find someone who would love me through it. Love is such a powerful and transformative experience and some people commenting seem quite cynical about it all.
A) I love the conversations on GMP. Nice work, friends.
B) Some people require different motivations. I know guys who are festering bags of ass until the exact moment when the woman fortunate enough to be conned into seeing his good side plops out a screaming, pink bundle of joy. THEN he becomes a man. I know guys who would have ended up pumping gas if they didn’t join the Army. Some men excel personally and professionally (and possibly emotionally) with the express purpose of having sex with as many women as humanly possible. And some guys just want to stick their success up the asses of everyone who said they couldn’t make it.
I trust that many or even most of Dan’s friends strongly benefited from who they married because that’s what it took for them. But the same shared character traits that caused them to need a good and strong woman may be what makes these men friends.
I suppose there’s irony in here somewhere (if such a thing exists any more). You always hear that men don’t change but how often do you hear a real-life story of a lady will transform herself for romantic love?
thanks for your comments Tom
Lindsey, I absolutely agree. I’ve had two husbands. My first husband, who was a bumbling, immature idiot, and my current and permanent husband, who is an intelligent, emotionally-developed human being that I love and respect. There’s so much stereotyping of men being stupid or emotionally feeble (just as the stereotyped woman is a bitchy nag – which is kind of implied on some level in this article too). My husband and I do not have this kind of relationship, and I am so glad we don’t! I don’t have to mother him and teach him to grow from a “boy to a man”, because he was a man the day I started dating him! He knew who he was, what he wanted. He loved himself, and so I was able to love him. The author of this article must suffer from great self-esteem deficiency. Or perhaps he married in high school?
Kait & Lindsey – i thought about how to respond to your comments. I may have miscommunicated. I assure you I was on a path of growth and maturing as a man before I met my wife and would continue to do so if our marriage were to end – though I have no fear of that. I have complete intrinsic motivation to grow. That being said I will admit that I did suffer from some degree of low self-esteem – I did not feel deserving of love as a result of growing up in a severely alcoholic and violent home. There was some of my healing that could not happen other than in a relationship, and even a marriage. Just as I continue to grow and heal as a result of being a father. You seem to have missed the primary context that I identify for this post – LOVE. When Love is involved there are many things that we do for ourselves and our loved ones that are absolutely about putting their needs before our own and even changing so that the love can grow and we can create a bigger space for them. When Love is involved there is a level of honesty and intimacy that exposes our greatest vulnerabilities and wounds so that they may be healed. We all have them. And always will. Maybe YOU have not had that experience and that would be too bad if that were the case
Kait – your arrogance and lack of compassion tell me that it was most likely you who married up and have some serious blindspots. I hope that you have the humility to see them some day and you may actually look back and see what I have written differently. Hell, you might even find yourself writing an article called “Most Women Marry Up.”
I wish that my Ex had been the kind of man you describe. He was never taught to grow up and appears to have only begun the process after two things happened: our child was born and I left him. If it wasn’t for our daughter, he probably never bothered to grow up, but he decided to take good care of her. So he’s not necessarily “bad’, but he certainly wasn’t a man until well after turning 30.
I have to say I love all of the responses though some of you may want to actually read the article. It is great to have all of the varied ideas about relationships. The title of the article was meant to be provocative and a bit hyperbolic like my calling it a “universal truth.” Just some thoughts in response to the comments:
Do some women marry up? Sure.
Did my wife marry up as much as I did? Sure, in many ways but that was not my point nor my focus. Was this about socieconomic status? Nope, read the article.
Was this meant to be interpreted as a truth for every man? Nope but it applies to a lot of men I know – per their own foolish and unenlightened admission, apparently. Again, it is not about the women being better than us but them seeing in us what we are not as able to see in ourselves and playing a critical role in our growth as men. Of course, men can do that for women.
Did I need Nancy to make me whole? Hardly and that was not my point. Those of you who think you have become the person you are without help and love from others may want to look again because it is highly unlikely. Love is about fostering growth in one another but if the person is dependent upon you for your growth that can lead to a lot of things, including a lot of unhappiness; if you’re most significant and intimate relationship is not about fostering growth in one another then it would be hard to call it a very healthy relationship.
At the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their own kind of relationship, their own view of relationships, and how they want them to fit into their lives. I still choose to see it as “marrying up” but maybe some day I will be as enlightened as some and would never subscribe to such a silly and disempowering notion.
The GMP loves articles that negatively generalize men and positively generalize women, such as this one – implying that women are inherently superior. How else could it be possible that “most” men marry up – if women were not above men?
The thinking behind this article also plays into the “I can change (fix) him” myth, where a woman likes or loves a man but dislikes certain things abou him and feels that maybe she can change the things she dislikes.
But, what if he sees no reason to stop watching football on Sundays, despite her best efforts to fix that character flaw? What if, no matter how hard she tries, there is nothing she can do to get him want to watch home and gardening shows on Sunday instead? To her great disappointment, she discovers that she can’t fix him afterall.
It’s only after the divorce or being frustrated that she can’t fix his Sunday football watching that such women realize that people (male or female) can only change themselves, and that’s only if they see a need to change.
Your cynicism is sad. If you read the breadth of my writing you would see I am far from one who puts women on a pedestal. However, we all have our strengths and on the whole women seem to have a strength in this area. You miss that I am talking about real Love not the superficial bullshit SuperBowl love example you give. I would agree with that – such a trivial thing. Except that is usually about something bigger like the man not really being emotionally available as a partner in the marriage usually because of his deep fear or total emotional incompetence.
Dan, you need to learn the difference between cynicism and reality. Sorry, pal. Men aren’t superior to women, nor are women superior to men. I hope you teach your son that he’s just as good as any girl but it doesn’t sound as if you believe that,. which is very, very sad.
The biggest problem with your article is you have made blanket generalized gender-stereotype proclamations as fact, with nothing to back them other than your own personal experience. YOU married up. YOU had addiction problems. YOUR wife helped you with them. What has that got to do with MOST men? Nothing. How much do you know about the marriages of billions of people you’ve never met? Again, nothing.
What if someone else wrote an article titled: “Most Women Marry Up”, citing as his evidence his own life experience where he helped his wife deal with her addition issues. How ridiculous would it be to conclude and proclaim that most women marry up because his wife did? Completely ridiculous. Except it would be derided here at the GMP as misogynistic trash.
BTW, I’ve been married far longer than you have, deal with serious illness daily and we’re still lovingly married. So, I know a little something about how to make a relationship last and thrive through tough times.
Eric – did you see that this was hyperbole ( a common writing device) and it was the phrase that was used. I’ll introduce to a lot more men than myself who would say the same thing but I admit it is not the same for every man (some men for whom this is true simply don’t recognize it.)
I would love to see an article “Most Women Marry Up” – it would be great and she could generalize as I have. It would also be just as true.
It sounds like you have a great marriage so, in all seriousness, congrats and I am sorry for whatever troubles you have to face as a result of the serious illness you refer to.
Thanks, Dan.
Many men would immediately interpret that little bromide as negative and disparaging of men. Oh…our fragile little egos. God forbid there be any reference that might somehow imply that men are not better than women or always their equal. Of course, this quote, if you pay attention, is not about superiority at all.
Actually by the myths and stereotypes around gender it is about superiority.
When talking about women who marry up its about a woman looking for a husband who has the superior ability to be an external provider (as in working outside the home and bringing home the proverbial bacon). When talking about men marrying up its about a man looking for a wife who has the superior sense of morality to be the emotional and moral center of the marriage.
But that does not make women superior and it was not what I meant – it is a strength of a lot of women. Just as a lot of men have our own strengths that we bring to marriage – and, of course, some men are the ones who bring the emotional and moral guidance though it is probably less common.
Maybe it’s just me. Maybe I’ve just spent a little too much time lately in the religiousphere. But if I see one more piece of writing that alludes to the antiquated societal model of women being the grown-ups by dressing in ways that help men by not making them want to jump our bones, being good little gate-keepers to all that sex men are always wantin to have, and playing out some sort of mommy role so they can continue to be irresponsible babies even in adulthood, I’m going to start teaching my daughters now about how to be happy without a man in their lives. I’m only half kidding. All these big, bad manly voices in the blogospere are great. We’re glad that you all are men. Now…..maybe you should all go and be MEN now so that your voices don’t have the unintended effect of sending the ladies running away from you. Damn pussies.
I think you’re bringing a lot of issues into your response that weren’t found in this article.
It’s a good idea to teach your daughters AND sons both to be independent and to care for themselves. That way, if and when they do find a partner, they’ll have the self-esteem necessary to make it a good relationship. Or recognize if it’s not.
And name calling? really? you refer to a man with a slang term for a woman’s body part. Your genuine concerns are more compelling.
I really don’t know what to make of this…
I probably did. An alcoholic, I always got with non-alcoholic partners. I think we need to resist the subtle Victorianism that seems constantly to want to re-emerge though.
I think I see where you’re going with rehabilitating the proverb about “marrying up.” What I read you saying is that it’s not that women are superior to men, but men in good marriages can be transformed into better people through the relationship itself. I would say that’s generally true.
Presumably, that means that many women “marry up” as well, unless you’re suggesting that women improve the lives of men but not vice versa. In good, healthy, nurturing relationships, people have the space and the support to become better people if they put the energy into it.
It’s kind of a double-edged tribute to wives, though, in some cases. Some men may freely say that their marriages have helped them become more adult, but in some cases that’s just letting themselves off the hook. As if to say, “what can I say? She’s the mature one, without her I’d be even more immature.” As someone else pointed out, it is reminiscent of the Victorian idea that women are more moral, spiritual, and stabilizing, which was a handy excuse in Victorian ideology for men to act less moral. “Thank God women are keeping the home fires burning, or else society would fall apart! Hope they don’t want the vote or anything dirty and competitive like that….” In these cases, it’s the classic paradox of the pedestal — raised and lowered at the same time.
This reminds me of the quote (from a famous woman whose name I’ve now forgotten): “I married beneath me. All women do.”
P.S. Found it. The quote is attributed to Nancy Astor, the first female Member of Parliament. She was being a little ironic, since she married into the nobility and became a Viscountess….
Thanks for your comments. Yes, I absolutely believe that women can marry up – and I even said that in my post that Nancy has benefited from our marriage as well.
Census numbers will always debunk this garbage. Most women marry up, financially. Sorry, it’s true.
No amount of feminism will make females aspire to marry men with smaller incomes. Women generally marry across and up. Men marry across and down (because women only marry across and up). This happens all over the world. It is not up for debate. It is fact.
Women want looks, similar income and education. Men want looks. Men will always be the less selective gender.
Did you even read the article? Or did you read the title and rush to post some drivel?
Thanks Sara. You’re my hero….. i mean heroine..
Yes, I read the article.
Women generally marry up. What’s the problem?
Well said Mark but keep blogs like this coming down the pipe and you’ll see a significant change…HERE CHECK THIS OUT GUYS WHETHER YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH ME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dVmwoR24rc
Men marry up? Really? According to the government, 75% of married men earn more than their wives.
Guys, how many weddings have you attended in which the bride was earning more than the groom? My guess is none. Personally, I have never witnessed a woman marry a man with a smaller income.
Women expect to be met, financially. Now that women outnumber men in college, marrying up will not be possible for some women. So they will either remain single, or *gasp*, marry down. Men marry down all the time. It’s time for women to do the same, in the name of equality.
Most women marry up. Most men marry down. I challenge the author to prove me wrong. Your female audience is waiting.
Hi Bob – i cannot prove you wrong when you talk about men and women and the idea of “marrying up” from an economical standpoint. However, having read my article you should have seen that I was not referring to this in an economic context.