Men’s sexual desire is driven by culture, not evolution, Hugo Schwyzer argues. Here’s what young women are really looking for, and why we’re fools to think otherwise.
In my office, Amber is telling me a familiar story. She’s come to talk about her autobiography paper for my women’s studies class, and she reads part of her rough draft aloud.
“I was 12, and this car pulled up alongside me as I was walking home from school … the driver looked a little older than my dad, at least 40. He leaned out, and I thought he was going to ask me for directions, but instead he asked me how old I was. 
When I told him, he laughed. ‘Damn, you got some big titties for such a little girl.’ He made this gross smacking sound with his lips, and sped away. I ran all the way home.”
Amber looks up at me. “I want to know,” she asks, “why do older men hit on younger women?” She’s 20 now, tall and graceful; she tells me that for the last eight years, older men have been approaching her. “It’s not just me,” she adds, “it happens to most of my friends, almost regardless of what they look like or what they’re wearing. It makes me feel like I can’t trust anyone, like all men want just one thing. Why can’t they chase women their own age?”
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I’ve been writing and researching about relationships between older men and younger women since 2005. While the media is hyping the “cougar” phenomenon, they ignore the reality that in most age-disparate affairs the man is the older (sometimes, as in the case of Hugh Hefner, astoundingly older) partner. We take it for granted that many men in their 30s, 40s, and 50s will be more sexually attracted to younger women than to their peers. While most men and women alike are appalled by stories of adult men hitting on 12-year-olds, we still assume that men will “naturally” lust after young women just a few years older.
In 2005, John Derbyshire, a much-admired right-wing pundit at the National Review, opined:
It is, in fact, a sad truth about human life that beyond our salad days, very few of us are interesting to look at in the buff. Added to that sadness is the very unfair truth that a woman’s salad days are shorter than a man’s—really, in this precise context, only from about 15 to 20.
Remarkably, the “family values” editors at America’s flagship conservative journal let this nonsense run, perhaps because they accepted what he was saying as gospel truth: 15- and 16-year-old girls are more sexually alluring to normal adult men than are women in their late 20s. But Derbyshire wasn’t telling us a truth about women’s beauty—he was telling us a truth about the way we’ve socialized male desire.
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No one thinks babies were the first thing on the mind of Jason Statham when he started dating a 23-year-old Victoria’s Secret model, or that Sean Penn (50) is motivated by the desire to start a family with Scarlett Johansson, who’s barely half his age.
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Ask any porn site operator: the “barely legal” or “teens” sections are among the most popular niches. That doesn’t sound so troubling when you imagine an army of teen boys masturbating to images and videos of their female peers. It’s considerably different to imagine men jerking off to pictures of girls young enough to be their daughters—or granddaughters. Since Hef published his first Playboy magazine in 1953, we’ve raised three generations of men to believe that women peak in desirability somewhere between 18 and 24. For many men, that peak starts much earlier. Ask a 17-year-old how often she’s been leered at (or worse) by a much older man.
For too many men, the term “jailbait” isn’t a warning. It’s an enticement.
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Spare me the arguments from biology or evolutionary psychology, the ones that excuse predatory old guys from staring at “young firm flesh” because that flesh belongs to a woman near the peak of her fertility. The great lengths to which countless men go to avoid fatherhood suggests that the continued evolutionary imperative to “spread one’s seed” is oversold to the point of being illusory. No one thinks babies were the first thing on the mind of Jason Statham when he started dating a 23-year-old Victoria’s Secret model, or that Sean Penn (50) is motivated by the desire to start a family with Scarlett Johansson, who’s barely half his age. This is about the cultural cachet of dating a much younger woman—and about the difficult-to-deny reality that younger women lack the experience and wisdom to call their older lovers on their bullshit.
Two recent books do a superb job of puncturing the argument that male sexuality is primarily a creature of evolutionary programming. University of North Carolina professor Martha McGaughey’s The Caveman Mystique: Pop-Darwinism and the Debates Over Sex, Violence and Science (Routledge, 2008) makes the convincing case that our beliefs about male sexuality form the science, and not the other way around. In other words, men who want a reason to chase younger women are desperate to claim that what is a culturally constructed choice is really an unavoidable biological reality.
Cordelia Fine’s Delusions of Gender: How Our Minds, Society, and Neurosexism Create Difference (Norton, 2010) offers a systematic debunking of the idea that men’s sexual decisions are driven largely by brain chemistry. Both Fine and McGaughey make a compelling case that the actual science doesn’t support the idea that men’s sexual desires are driven by evolutionary imperatives.
In other words, John Derbyshire (and a lot of other grown men) may be sexually attracted to underage girls—but they don’t get to blame that fetish on biology.
Even if it were “natural,” there’s nothing innocent or harmless or healthy about older men pursuing substantially younger women. The cost is high to everyone involved. While a few young women may be attracted to much older guys (often because they falsely imagine themselves to be “so much more mature” than “other girls” their age), most are like Amber—disheartened and disgusted by the endless parade of men 10, 20, or 40 years older who harass and hit on them. These young women aren’t flattered. And even if they seem flattered at the time, it doesn’t mean the attention from older men isn’t doing great harm.
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Lynn Phillips, a psychology professor at New York University, did a famous study of young women (mostly under legal age) who were in relationships with significantly older men. Most of the girls she interviewed described these affairs as mutual, exciting, and fulfilling. They pushed back against the suggestion that they were being exploited, claiming in many cases to have initiated or at least welcomed the sex with older men. Phillips then interviewed a similar number of older women. Each of these was over 30, and each had been in a relationship with a much older man while still in her teens. With the benefit of hindsight and experience, these older women acknowledged that they’d been used and hurt and exploited. They admitted that their claims of maturity and sexual adventurousness were all a pretense. In other words, what Phillips found is that while there are some teen girls who are “asking for it,” it’s not what they really want. Teen girls feign sexual sophistication; men need to be able to see through that.
Kerry Cohen, author of Loose Girl and the forthcoming Dirty Little Secrets: Breaking the Silence on Teenage Girls and Promiscuity, argues that “when adult men sexualize teen girls, even just by ogling them, the girls are reminded that their worth in their world is dependent on how sexy they are.” “Girls who choose men so far out of their age ranges,” Cohen writes, “tend toward low self-esteem and depression.” These aren’t sweet coming-of-age stories. And they don’t fit the pornographic story line that young girls are eager for sexual initiation at the hands of an older, wiser mentor.
Here’s the brutal truth, guys. Teen and 20-something women aren’t nearly as interested in much older men as you may think. Sure, there are high school girls with Johnny Depp fantasies, but guess what? You’re not Johnny Depp. (If you were that 48-year-old actor, you’d be devoted to your 38-year-old French girlfriend.) Yes, some young women do flirt with older men. Some do it for validation, some do it for excitement, but a hell of a lot of them do it because guys like you have already taught them that’s the only thing that older men want.
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A true story about the way younger women really see “older men” (and if you’re attracted to 18- to 24-year-olds, you count as “older” if you’re on the high side of 30).
A few years ago, my friend Sean went through a rough divorce. Newly single and almost 40, he went back on the dating scene for the first time in over a decade. But the woman who caught his eye wasn’t someone he met online. She was his favorite barista at his local Starbucks. She was 19.
Next: The girl behind the counter
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About Hugo Schwyzer
Wow, Hugo and they actually let you post your opinions. You are nowhere near the expert you position yourself to be, which I suspected when your words overflowed with judgement and bias. So sorry our society is not living with your views as the center of our universe, we should probably look into that. Why my tone? Because the sheer arrogance of your poorly researched piece is astounding.
I also love how manipulative you were in your work, so sad to see a wanna be journalist resort to such devices. For example, soon into your post you cite an incident with a 12 year old and then later, to disguise your manipulation, say that of course, the article has nothing to do with such extremes. Then why plant the seed to begin with? Ahh, yes, manipulation. You would have made a good lawyer.
My uncle married his wife when he was 48, she was 26. They remained happily married until his passing at 89, which included raising six kids, all their own kids of natural child birth. In terms of my peers, at least three of best marriages I have ever seen, there was between an 8 to 12 year difference in age. All of those marriages have lasted several decades. Well that just shoots to crap all your rants, now doesn’t it? But then again, you were never interested in the truth, just the rhetoric.
There are a lot of reasons people hook up at any age. There are a lot of reasons for the whole Cougar phenomenon. Most of those reasons are very human ones, as we are all very imperfect. No one is condoning the manipulation of a young woman in the way you have tried to manipulate us through you’re writing, that is dead wrong- on both accounts. And had you stuck to your opening, I probably would be writing in support. But your wildly random accusations and insane over generalizations just flat stink to high heaven of bias and an agenda, I cant take anything you write seriously.
i totally agree…not every girl that goes for older guys feel supposedly ‘exploit’ by them in the future. those that are probably have a grudge against her ex. i know many younger woman older man relationships that worked out perfectly fine. i really don’t mind older guys hitting on me, i just take it as a compliment same goes to guys my age but i usually would regard boys my age hitting on me as a result of hormones overload. older guys…they actually think you’re attractive and that’s a compliment.
Well, it is much easier to look attractive in older man’s eyes , than in younger one’s… I agree that less attractive or less confident woman will be more willing to accept older man advances…I see that all the time… and , of cause, many women are after financial stability, which older man can provide in many cases…. but isn’t it a form of prostitution , when one person is selling herself for certain conditions of life ? … old as world … but, I would not call it normal…
dear summer you have hit the nail on the head for the most part you are quite right some younger women who are gourgouse and or narsistice over confdent lady,s like you of cource tend to peffer men like your self and sell short that a older man who can provide both love companiship and be finanacaaly stable that kind of relanship is wrong and that to you it is a form of prostitution i am going to presume that you are you are under 30 year,s of age and have no clue what you are talking about alll women need stablity in thire live,s if a man is lucky enofe to have a younger women in his life as he is older who are you to pass such judgement that it is wrong when both the older man and the younger women bennifit from this kind of relanship this is something that more women need to start learning think on this witch would you realy reather have some handsom stud muffen bf your own age who is piss poor or a a older wiser man who can care for you and your need,s want,s
I disagree with michael’s guess about Summer2013′s age. I think she is an older woman – perhaps a woman who has lost a man to a younger woman. But I do agree with his premise that what an age gap couple choose to legally do is no one’s business. Saying that the younger woman wants stability and money while the older man wants a hot piece of ass is an outmoded, ancient, and tiring stereotype. Are there some couples like that? sure…but only a small percentage.. I date younger because they are exciting and positive…and Summer2013′s post illustrates my point exactly..she makes generalizations and statements that are clearly personal opinions – not supported by fact or research, and she ends her posting by suggesting that age gap couples are engaging in prostitution?!?! It is a most un-exciting and un-positive comment – exactly the reason I couldn’t be with a woman that has that outlook….
You make me laugh, really ..:) If my speaking up my mind from my personal experience ,got such angry and resentful reaction from your side , well, it hit you in a painful spot., otherwise you would not react this way .. let me guess who you are , based on your comments : lonely , unhappy and … well past your spring time… Big “Hello” to you from a happy, young , beautiful, educated, professional Eastern European woman, who is happily married to a great man her own generation, has lots of friends, love ballroom dancing, skiing, tennis, traveling , shopping of cause, who is happened to be financially secure and comes from a great family. Nice to meet you ..:)
Summer 2013 – you provide a lively response to my post. It’s interesting to me that, although you call me angry and resentful, you are the one with the hostile post..not me…I only provide opinion … just like you did originally. Perhaps I got your personal dynamics wrong but it does not change the fact that you are prejudicial and clearly against age gap couples because you had a bad experience. That’s too bad for you, but your personal issue has no bearing on other couples.
I’m wondering what your acceptable age range is? And just for argument’s sake, let’s say that you are single and a man approached you that was 1 year older than your range. Are you saying that you would categorlcally exclude him as a potential partner? What if he was one month older? Or how about one day older? I’d love to know your answer and your reasoning. I’d also love to know why you feel qualified to impose your limitations on the rest of us.
Your response is full of contradicictions. If you are truly happy with your life, all the things you have, and all that you do, then why do you feel compelled to tell us all about it? who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? I don’t have to do that…I’m happy with my life and with my chosen mate – who happens to be 31 years younger than me. And before you indict and convict – we have been together a long time…way past the “sex is great:” stage. And I’m just an average guy with an average job (that means she’s not in it for the money or the looks).
Finally – I think that comparing young woman to prostitutes just because they may be attracted to men outside an arbitrary age range – set by you – is just plain stupid. I rarely use harsh language in a debate, but that comment deserved it.
dear summer quite right on several count,s however unlike you and your self centerd life style in my case i have given mine in servace to outher,s and the simple fact that now that i am older 45 and that i happen to enjoy the company of younger women is of no conceren to your,s however concdering your coment,s i see you as a women who in all probality is a rich b)(*& who has never work a hard day in her life and had everthing handed to her on a silver platter furthermore unless i miss my gusse you have a overinflated self worth oppnion of your self becuse in your eye,s you have everything or at least to you you have everthing \ in my case $$$ dose not buy everthing becuse i know fulll well if that,s is all a women want,s why would i want her in my life as a lover or as my mate
I thought love is the most important thing when you decide on relationship and marriage, everything else comes second… On the other hand, why do you hold such bad opinion about modern young men? Many of them, at least in my world, are smart, educated , financially secure or working in that direction, and able to provide love and companionship to their partners. All these wonderful qualities do not depend on the age.Culture, background, social circle, education, upbringing- all that makes a person. I have to assure you that many of modern young men are the epitome of the best qualities you can find in any man. And that is exactly what ” generation gap” means. You have limited information about younger generation walking the streets next to you… You should make an effort to know them better…
You’re right – love is the most important thing and everything comes second – including age differences! . Culture, background, social circle, education, upbringing- all that makes a person. and other people respond to that….All these wonderful qualities do not depend on the age. You are encouraging michael to be more accomodating and accepting of a younger generation, you say that age does not matter, you say he should make an effort to know [the younger generation] better, but you draw the line at sex and romance….These are all your words! It’s difficult to figure you out….too many contradictions….
I see alot of wisdom and insight to what he is saying, and as a young girl myself who has had these experiences, I can personally testify. However, the only difference between me and any other young girl out there is- I am not trying to justify my relationship with an older man. I know the damage it does when older men hit on younger girls rather than women their age, it tells us one thing only. It shows us our worth to them is kept very superficial and there is nothing beyond that. Ofcourse, as with all things- there are exceptions to the rule, and not every case is the same. However, looking at the majority of cases out there and observing them without our egos involved, we can see very well this is exactly what is going on. To deny is to choose to stay ignorant. Most likely because one feels threatened by this truth concerning their own life. That is all I can assume when you leave comments in that tone. I dont know who you are or where you stand in your relationships, but everyone has the right to express their opinion, just as you just did. I am personally thankful for this article, as it helped relieve alot of stress and confusion I’ve been dealing with lately. So, if it did nothing for you, atleast you can give thanks its done something good for someone.
Hi Alexa,
Could you expand a bit on the damage done when a man makes an unaggressive, easily turned down, offer of intimacy to someone they find attractive who happens to be younger but who is nonetheless an adult?
Thanks!
As the author points out; older men should be more of a role model to these young women (girls) It would be nice if they could give a compliment to a young girl that made her feel good about herself rather than make her feel that all older men want from her is sex~
Unless you have lived in a girls skin; you may not understand!
One thing that I believe is that the young and the old are truely looking for 2 different things! The young is looking for security while the old is looking for a sex partner. They sometimes can agree on the details in between and make a relationship last but in most instances it will not! What makes anyone think that with the divorce rate over 50 percent that this type of relationship could work out any better! My words after a good talk would be .. good luck!
This sounds like its coming from either an older woman who has lost her man to a younger woman, or else a younger woman who has had negative experiences with older men. Which is it ?
Your comment is too general and way too overreaching. It most definitely does not apply to all age gap couples. Do older men want sex? of course we do! but so do younger men…do younger women want security? yes..but so do older women!
I have been dating women 15 – 30 years younger than me for a long time. It’s not because I want sex from them – it’s because younger women are more full of life and exciting. They are positive and willing to try anything. They have not been jaded, and they have not yet had a bad experience with men that carries into their middle age years. I find that a large percentage of women in my age range are divorced, with kids, and with a sour attitide because of what “that bastard” did to them. They often do not take care of their appearance and tend to be more set in their ways. Sorry, but I was not responsible for the other guy’s bad acts, I dont want to deal with the fallout, and I want to experience as much as I can with my chosen partner. Life is too short.
I know it sounds harsh, but I am not shallow at all. If I could have found a woman my age who fulfilled all of my requirements, I would have dated her in a heartbeat. However, It’s too late. I’m now engaged to a wonderful woman who happens to be 30 years younger than me……We’ve been together for four years and we couldn’t be happier.
A majority of cases? it tells us that the relationship is only superficial? Pretty big generalizations – dont you think?
Let’s look at each one. A majority of cases implies that you have studied the older guy / yourger woman phenomena. You have randomly selected hundreds (or perhaps thousands) of couples throughout the world (or at least the US) and surveyed their reactions / emotions / etc. I’m guessing that is not the case. Morelikely it is a personal opinion, enhanced by you to amke your argument appear more convincing.
A superficial relationship? I’m assuming you mean a relationship based on sex with no deeper commitment. I’m interested in your opinion of college relationships. Both partners are the same age, yet it’s likely that very few men in that age range have any interest in commitment AT ALL. You by implication you say that is okay, but a caring relationship between two people who just happen to be outside an arbitrary age range – set by you – is not okay?
You say that older man have hit on you in the past, and you didn’t like it. That’s fine – but you aren’t relly in a position to conclude that it does damage to all women. The more accurate statement is that the encounters did damage to you. It is okay for you to feel the way you do, but please don’t generalize; many younger women don’t mind. I see 2 or 3 new posts on this very blog from just such women.
I think what Alexa said was perfectly valid, it was her experience and the article helped her deal with stress and confusion she’s been dealing with lately – I don’t agree with everything said in the article but a lot of it resonates with me too. I understand very much about what she says about superficial worth, not that this reflects all old man/young woman relationships but when a man exclusively & repeatedly selects young women rather than his own peers because they are young I believe this can be the case. I also suspect that in many cases the older man may be trying to reclaim his own young years by associating with younger people, sadly we all age it’s a fact of life and no amount of surrounding ourselves with younger people will change that.
No many younger women don’t mind, I was such a young woman for several years, but wouldn’t you know it I got older, it’s a different story now.
Hello again E! I’m glad you’ve finally agreed with me! Your response to Alexa is decidedly more personal than your previous posts. You agree with Alexa’s point of view because of your own experience, but you leave the door open to the realization that some age gap relationships are not superficial – you use phrases like “I dont agree with everything but it resonates with me” – “not that this reflects all…” – “this can be the case”. I read this as your acknowledgement that older / younger can work when the right partners are involved….I’m happy about that….
My only question concerns your last statement. You say that it’s a different story now; you’re implying that the only reason for your failed marriage is the fact that you got older. Can you positively say that’s the case?
John, I’m pleased you realise that I was not trying to disagree with you for the sake of it. In your last post aimed at me you said something like “We’ll see who’s right”, that made me feel completely misunderstood – I don’t want anyone’s relationship to fail (remember I wished you luck, no sarcasm intended) this has never been a ‘black & white’ issue to me or a case of being ‘right’, I’m simply expressing my experience and pointing out the pitfalls in such relationships. Answer to your question:
Firstly my marriage is not failed, it’s having problems as I said earlier, perhaps they will be solved, perhaps not. My husband is over 20 years older than me, in the beginning it didn’t matter, we had a great time – the first few years are the buzz of being in love anyway. I came to not see the gap anymore as did he, although he was undoubtedly rather proud of having a young woman with him & he told me didn’t find women his own age interesting or attractive (he admits that there was a strong superficial element which has been echoed by many male comments on this thread including your own “if I can get a 24 year year old to love me”). Well time goes on as it does guess who’s now the oldest woman he’s ever been with? Can I say 100% this is why we’re having problems? He’s said hurtful stuff which indicates that is so is all I can say, I won’t repeat because I find it hard to deal with. I’m seeing a therapist who is guiding me through this & she believes the age gap is a significant factor, she has been able to point out things from a neutral perspective and I’m only just coming to terms with some of this now and it’s incredibly difficult for me. Does that answer your question?
Secondly, generalisations – yes they are in abundance on this thread (everyone is posting personal experience none of it is empirical evidence) but why do you pull up Alexa and not the comment about 25 year olds being ‘moma’s boys’? That is every bit as biased a generalisation. My male cousin married aged 25 to a 27 year old, he does all the chores as she has a back condition, a friend met her husband age 16 (her) & (15 him) again they have a wonderful marriage, another couple of friends met at university & had a good marriage for 20 years until her death (he has since met another lady the same age as himself). Young men are not all selfish and it’s unfair to paint them as such anymore than to say all older men are superficial or all middle aged women are ‘basket cases’ (I remembered you said that).
Do I think age gap marriages can work? Of course I do, plenty do, although I would add the stories about aunts & uncles I take with a pinch of salt – no one in my family knows how unhappy our marriage has been recently, because I don’t like to upset them (there are kids involved) they would say we were a happy ending too. These relationships are different to peer age ones and face many more challenges in the long term and growing older at different stages is not easy. Hand on heart I couldn’t recommend it, I wouldn’t be truthful if I did.
Young people have opportunities to meet older people. Older people to meet younger ones. What’s the fuss? And it’s all ego, the love does not last. It’s all sex type of love. Humans are bored and blinded and always need sex over love.
@ sneaky writter
I agree with you. I am 49 my partner is 25. Now the reason why today some women prefer older men is because men there age are today immature moma’s boys. A 25 years old man compared to a same age man 30 years ago is a baby. Women however are still as mature as they were 39 years ago. No woman wants a mon / sun relation, that would be sick. No woman want a relation with a 25 years old boy playing video games like a teenager and let her do all the home chores
Agree with Pat,
My girlfriend refers to guys her own age as boys, she is a teacher and the last thing she wants at the end her working day is to return home to another child!
14 year age gap, is meaningless to us, we are two very compatible adults, that is all you need.
completely agree
personaly i thought the artical was reather slanted to be honast a younger women and a older match to my way of thinking is a good thing he has the resorce,s she for the most part lack,s pluse the experince to deal most issuse that come up however i make a caviat to that becuse thire are a lot of younger women out thire who want a man to take care of everthing for them as well ie suger daddy \ and or women who lack the motvaton to get what that want or are so far down the money pit and or one of the outher issuse i see women who have issuse,s ie ADD \ or outher such co dependent issuse,s when younger willl latch on to a older man becuse in thire eye,s thire way of thinking is he can fix everthing the reality of this is that is that it willl in the end unless the man is able to do damm near everthing for her in the end she willl droping him useing what ever useless excuse she can find then in time latch on to a nother man to whom she think can give her evertthing to my way of thinking dateing a younger women can be a wounderfulll thing however ask your self is she matuer enofe is she stable enofe for this to be lasting and lead to a commited relanship
Interesting perspective Michael, you highlight the fact that some young women may have psychological issues which draw them to older men, a point Hugo makes himself in the article. Do you think it’s also possible that some older men may have also psychological issues which draw them to younger women?
1st why should it be necessarily be a psychological issues ? Why are all other possibilities not even not mentioned ? Because it disturbed Guru, God, Hugo Schwyzer ?
2nd the picture chosed is insulting, showing a man perving through as if all older men were perverse. The whole article depicts older men as pervs or having personal issues. Women making that choice are not respected either as they are seen only having personal issues or want to take advantage of the older men (congrats to saying women are bitches btw).
The article is only bias and judgement driven. Very poor.
And please american men, when will you start understanding that american women are fed up
with your immaturity ? This is the very reason why some young women prefer older guys : they don’t
have to play a 2nd mother or nanny. It’s a shame to see over decades how men have become
immature.
dear E some men may have a reasion for seeking out only younger women however in my case the reasion is quite simple i have had very little choice in my life up tilll a few year,s ago of suporting everyone around me as well as takeing care of grandparent,s \ my father and then my mother then a saveraly bi polar wife now ex wife thank god the fact i enjoy the company of women younger then me and if possable as my lover for me is a reward for all the year,s of hard work becuse now it is my time and i chose who i want in my life as well as who may or not be in my bed i peffer women younger then me becuse of what should have been mine as a young man was not possable
My comment was not directed personally at your life Michael.
I asked the question of you only because you highlighted the possible psychological reasons why a young woman may seek an older man but did not mention the psychological reasons an older man may seek a younger woman. As you mentioned co-dependency that is particularly relevant as it takes two people with psychological need to be ‘co’-dependent.
allso i did not mention the fact that a younger women is good for a older man and the older i get the more and more i am seriousey convinced that yes we advnace in many thing,s however relansion,s betwen men and women are very much confused as well as for the most part most women are very much confused as to the way thing,s should be women have far to many confusing choice,s \ stablity stem,s from the famaly and outward,s in to the world when thire is stablity life improve,s where thire is confusion life get,s worst this apply,s to men and women
Psychological issues? because of who someone prefers to be with? Just because someone has a different definition of attractive does not mean that anyone has psychological issues! I could say that vegetarians have psychological issues (because I am not one) or that gay people are deviant (because they exist outside of mainstream society’s expectations). Is either statment defensible? no….
Are there problems with age gap couples? sure – is it possible for the older member to take advantage of the younger? yes – how about the younger taking advantage of the older – of course! Age gap couples have challenges – “regular” couples have challenges…life isn’t easy for anyone! And Life does not need to be complicated by having others advise, criticize, or proselytize…Just leave it alone…
Society sets expectations and directs behavior through its laws. And the majority of States in the USA (and countries in the world) do not place any restrictions on sexual contact or ability to marry on anyone over the age of 15 or 16. If there truly was identifiable damage done to the frail young people by overreaching older people, then sociey would respond with an increase in the marriage age – age of consent – or both. I know I’ll never change minds (especially among the small minority that have adverse personal experiences) but it’s really no one else’s business…
Good day John, you didn’t answer my earlier questions regarding equality/dicorce etc but I won’t hold that against you
The issue of homosexuality is a completely different one to an age one… for a start (short of the unusual step of gender reassignment) people stay the gender they are, they do not stay the same age, the young woman will become a middle aged woman and if her older partner rejected those women as his peer age group (and you John along with others on this thread, give many reasons why you have yourself) 15 years earlier will he cope with this change? Young and fresh is all very well, I can imagine it is very refreshing when you feel jaded by life experiences to spend time with someone who has not had the time to be so affected, but no one stays young forever and if her youth was the main attraction then there will be either a readjustment or trouble. Unless she can pull off the hitherto unknown feat of staying 24 forever.
Realistically people will express their opinions on such things, even if it doesn’t affect them, and of course some of us have personal experience. It’s no one else’s business, but when you post it on the internet you know you will invite comment, especially when you explain your attraction to young women by slating your peer group as you have done.
Many of the comments here might give the impression there is a sudden epidemic of young women/old men partnerships but the figures do not support this – the average age difference between couples remains the husband 2 years older (a coincidence that gap is the exact difference in sexual maturity age?) as it has been approximately for many years.
E – a more personal response…I’m disappointed…It’s much more constructive to have a disagreement when it doesn’t get personal!
I’m not sure you understood my last comment. I wasn’t using homosexuality as a substantive discussion point. I was merely saying that what people do, and who they choose to associate themselves with, is no one’s business; and no one has the right to say that relationship A is okay while relationship B is wrong.
And I never said I rejected my peer group. What I said was that the things that attract me to a woman are a positive attitide, a zest for life, etc. and that, other things being equal, those traits are most commpnly found in younger women. I’ve dated women my age – even older than me – who possess the correct qualities. It just so happens that the woman who captured my heart completely happens to be 30 years younger than me. Notice that good looks or the willingness to have sex all day long is not on my list….I’m really not shallow.
I’m not interested in dating women that have baggage, are jaded, feel like they’ve been given a raw deal, etc. and that is your typical middle aged woman. Sorry, but what happened in her past is not my fault, and I dont think I need to bear the burden of another guy’s bad acts.
And I agree that the “traditional” couple still remains close in age; I’ve acknowledged in previous posts that the number of younger women that want to date me is small by comparison, but it is not insignificant.
My original message remains: leave everyone alone..Each of us must find his / her own way in the world. Just because someone chooses to be with someone else who is outside the age range that you find to be personally acceptable does not mean that they are wrong and you are right – and your personal experience is really not relevant here – because it is personal; there is no correlation to any other couple….
I’m sorry John, my reply was only personal in relation to comments you made. You have referred to ‘hormonal crap’ and your experience of middle aged women as ‘basket cases’ – that sounds like a rejection of your peer age group to me, perhaps if I’m mistaken you’d like to explain what you meant by that. Most strangely of all to me you have stated that women closer to your age (nearing the end of their child bearing years, actually substantially younger than you in fact) might still be able to attract a
man of 70 or 80 – I asked for an explanation for that and you declined to give it…. I’m waiting if you decide to explain.
Finally “your personal experience is really not relevant here – because it is personal; there is no correlation to any other couple….” Thank you for your opinion but I think that coming from such a large gap relationship for 18 years my experience is perfectly valid, I never claimed it was inevitable for all, but it will correlate with some. Some will work out okay. Some won’t. Some old guys are only into young women and will reject them as soon as they age. Some young women will grow tired of the man as he grows older when she is still relatively young. These relationships are different (generational gaps, not 10/12 years or so) because we go through life stages at different times, we do face different challenges and I can only appreciate this now with experience. I’m sorry my experience matters so little to you and appears to irritate you, but perhaps it will strike a chord with some other.
E -If you looked closely at the post where I referred to hormonal crap and basket cases you will find that the statements were irony – not reality. I concluded that post with “how’s that for generalizations?” … And I admit my statment about 80 year old guys was a little off the cuff – A better way to say it is that men are tuned into women that have the ability to reproduce. Losing that ability affects their attractiveness toward men that want children – like me.
And I see you have started to define your acceptable age difference between partners – you say that generational gaps are different, but 10-12 years is not. I’m curious…exactly where do you draw the line? what age range is acceptable to you and what age range isn’t ? 10 years? 11? 12? and if your acceptable age difference is 10 years, you would categorically reject a potential partner if he was 10 1/2 years older than you? How about 10 years and 1 week older ?
Of course your experience is relevant – to you….but not to anyone else. Neither is mine, and that’s my whole point – You are trying to warn and convince young women of the danger because of your personal experience. You would not be espousing that point of view if your marriage was completely happy and satisfying. In fact – you would be telling all of us how wonderful an age gap relationship is. Your paradigm has changed based on a personal experience; mine has never changed…..
John, I did realise it was a deeply sarcastic reply and could see you were annoyed with the original speculation about your partner being a young man’s trash which I completely respect (& for the record didn’t agree with) but it’s a shame you had to say it in that way and ‘dis’ another group of women in order to make your point.
Regarding age gaps I do think that when a person is young or old enough to be the parent of their partner that is when a certain dynamic can occur. I could explain further but you don’t want to hear about my experience. I am not in a position to answer your question about my own acceptable age of potential partners because I am not looking for one – I am and always have been 100% faithful.
I understand when you put it bluntly that at 54 you want a second family and that is why young women attract you, fair enough, you know the risks, so does she, good luck to you both. Despite his age my husband is a wonderful father (sorry, I keep forgetting my personal experiences count for zip).
Finally, it’s not exactly true that I would have been “telling all of us how wonderful an age gap relationship is” if things were different. Completely honestly I still love my husband (despite everything) and always have, but even in the beginning the thought of in all probability such a long widowhood (& as we women live longer add another couple of years onto the age gap) did upset me and time does not make it easier, it’s very hard to see him age, harder than I can articulate in words. For that reason alone I would strongly caution a young woman considering such a marriage. Paradigms are all very well John, but sometimes you have to be in those shoes to know how it feels.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/02/exile-in-gal-ville-how-a-male-feminist-alienated-his-supporters/252915/
I found that interesting link on Hugo Schwytzer and his commitment to the women’s cause
very interesting
I am 58. I like them from 21-35. Why? I’m a cancer survivor who also had kidney surgury from chemo complications. My days are numbered. I survived this but how long do i really have? I’m not looking for marriage/relationship, i’m just looking for a sweet young thing so i can die peacefully. I’m a musician who can teach her, treat her like a queen. I look in the mirror and see what i was and what i’ve turned into and i hate it even though in spite of what i’ve been through look ok. 6″1 175 lbs didn’t lose any hair in chemo, short with a ponytail, all my teeth,etc. We keep plugging away, i’d rather die trying than settle.
am pamela Morris from Florida am 25 years of age single and need an older man who can not only give me his love but also the gray hair wisdom and to help handle my business my email is pamelamorris622 at yahoo.com.waiting for your responseam
The article was total nonsense. The libs will not be happy until they have made EVERYONE think like a woman. That’s what the writer of this article really is; he’s a man with an Oprah induced woman brain. The lack of testosterone is what motivated this article. Let me clue you in on something….guys date younger as long as they CAN. And they do so because younger women are more attractive in every way. And it’s okay (and even trendy) for an older woman to date younger men, but woe to an older guy who likes younger women. The first thing mentioned is “12 year olds” and pedophiles. Malarky. Because an older guy likes younger women doesn’t mean that he’s a pervert and he wants underage girls. I get so sick of this bullshit I could puke. The bottom line is that if a younger women wants to date an older guy, then it’s between THEM. Most people would be so much better off to mind their own business, and the writer of this article is full of crap. “Good men?” As if to be a good man you must only date a woman who is exactly the same age. It’s LOONY. Go tout your goofy rules to somebody who cares!
Couldn’t have said it better myself George. I’m engaged to a woman that’s much younger than me. I’ve gone a few rounds with some others here…trying to convince me – or themselves, that what I’m doing is wrong, doomed to fail, unfair to her, etc. I say two things: A – anything that two consenting adults want to do with each other – as long as they both have their eyes wide open – is their business and no one else’s, and B – refer back to A.
I’m fortunate that I have a woman who knows what it means to be a woman, and she knows how to treat her man. The whole notion of masculine and feminine has been distorted – There are generations of men who think that to be a man means to be a wimpy and whipped blob with Oprah bains – as portrayed in television programs, commercials, etc. And how many women are out there that embraced the feminist paradigm; worked their way up the corporate ladder, became successful, and then realized that they didn’t have a family at age 40. No wonder the divorce rate is above 50% and there are so many more marriages that are unhappy but, for whatever reason, the parties do not break with each other. Men and women are different…we can never be equal! The whole thing makes me sick.
It seems to me that the feminist movement has backfired. You cannot adopt gender roles that conflict with thousands of generations of human development. To do so will invite internal conflicts that will be difficult to resolve. A recent report published by the Centers for Disease Control states:
“The study also found that women are two and a half times more likely to take antidepressant medication as males, while 23 percent of women ages 40 to 59 take antidepressants, more than in any other age or sex group….”
Wow! Almost 1 in 4 middle aged American women are on antidepressants. Maybe the feminists will find a way to blame men for that as well….
I’m a little unclear as to the link to corporate ladders/divorce etc… Perhaps you can elucidate?…
The anti-depressant thing, well women are more likely to suffer from depression in the first place so that may account for the higher number on ant-depressants? Again I’m not quite sure what you are trying to say here, could you explain please? I have never taken anti-depressants myself and I’m not quite sure of the relevance of that issue to the debate.
As for that horrendous over 50% divorce rate you have in the USA I must admit I’m curious about the reasons behind it, but wonder why you think the old man/young woman pairing is a solution? The twinning of older men younger women could possibly have driven some of those divorces statistically as some of those older men may have had to leave wives to do so (unless they stayed unmarried into their 40s/50s. My OH was divorced before he met me…
Not going another ’round’ as such but curious about what you have written.
Men and women are different but surely we are equal? The definition of equal is to have the same value, not to be the same.
Men and women are not equal –and they will never be equal. However, don’t make the mistake of thinking that I’m implying that men are superior – or vice versa.
In the distant past, men were the hunters, protectors, and providers and women had the babies and tended the family. All of the functions were essential. Otherwise, the species would not survive. So which is more important – men or women? No one can really say which tasks have the greater value….
Today we have supermarkets and police for food and protection. Women still have to bear the children, but either sex can hold the job or take care of the children. Due to the high cost of living in developed cultures, the two-income couple is more prevalent than the single income family. Additionally, the feminist movement has created an expectation; women’s success has to be measured by her success in the workplace. Having more women work means more men are staying home and tending to the family. Having the woman be the earner while the man primarily tends the family conflicts with the biological desires of the representative genders.
I think this has a lot to do with the prevalence of depression, marital strife, and divorce in developed countries. Neither gender can feel ultimately fulfilled because they are performing tasks that are not in tune with their genetic wiring. One only needs to look at the medical and marriage records in countries where traditional gender roles are practiced to see a dramatically lower incidence of divorce, etc.
i aggree completaly men and women should be more traditional as far as how thing,s should be beten them however unless we plan on turning back the hand,s of time thire is little chance of that outher then finding a women who aggrees as far as how thing,s should be betwen men and women \ women by thire natuer should be able to care for thire children and the man should be able to provide however we all know that is not posable in this econimey so marryage,s suffer as well as the children who should have two parent,s i know in my case i am working very hard at patching up a realinship with a lady i care very much about becuse we seprested for that very reasion $$$ however i know in my case i am doing damm near everthing so her and i can be reumited soon and be father to her kid,s witch is the way thing,s should be and yes she is younger then me she is what i fight for
I hope it works out for you michael. And there are women out there who subscribe to the traditional gender role model. I’ve found one….and it is wonderful! We are partners – neither one of us is overpowering the other…but we both know how we want our relationship to proceed. We know that it will be difficult – we get pushback from many people – including some on this site- because of our paradigm and because of the fact that she is 30 years younger than me . But we dont care…we are in love and it is perfect for us. I’ve never been happier….
Thank you for your answer. The dictionary definition of ‘equal’ is to be of the same value, not that something is necessarily the same. That is why we talk of racial and sexual equality.
I have known households where dad has brought up the kids and mom has gone out to work because it makes sense (if she has a higher paying job & he likes being with his kids), I have known households where mom has stayed home and dad worked (& a few depressed women in that situation), most commonly these days however both mom and dad work fulltime because it takes two wages to keep a household as you say. I haven’t personally observed any correlation with depression or divorce, nor have I seen any studies which have shown this – please do post links if you have them. I’m discounting your assertion over developing countries because culturally there are too many variables to compare.
The increase in divorce – that’s a big one. There’s your theory on gender roles. There’s the fact it’s got easier to get divorced and women can support themselves unlike in the past (lower divorce doesn’t necessarily mean happier marriages). My theory (& like you I don’t have proof, just a gut feeling) is that people today have very exacting expectations, we live in a consumer society more so than ever before (& the USA is the epitomy of this) and we (men and women) are used to getting what we want, expecting happiness as our right and becoming discontent quickly when things aren’t easy. Hollywood shows us the girl and the guy getting together but fades out as soon as they marry; our culture is obsessed with romance at a time when marriages are less likely to last than ever before – coincidence?
Check out the study below about depression in stay-at-home moms:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120705151417.htm
Interesting.
I agree with you 100% brother.I’ve dated and lived with both older and younger. It had to do with mutual attraction from the both of us each time. We both knew what we wanted from the relationships and that was it.
The only truth there is. Young girls increase the level of testosterone in older men. Win win for the guy. Young girls smell better. Win win for the guy. Fertility for the girl. Win win for the guy. Any questions?
young girls smell better and Loren can’t think…. what kind immature answer is that ?
What is immature here Pat? What, you don’t understand the science of biology? Seriously, you can do better then this can’t you?
Humans are not only driven by biology, from a long time. We are not only governed by hormones, see we have evolved differently from animals. As for sexuality human sexuality is not driven only by reproduction as it is for animals. Biology is not all, psychology, influence of education and culture influence us far more than biology does.
As for what I found immature, it’s that , “Young girls smell better” : this is very misogynistic… do younger women only smell better ? Are younger women only defined by their smell or looks?
“Humans are not only driven by biology, from a long time. We are not only governed by hormones, see we have evolved differently from animals. As for sexuality human sexuality is not driven only by reproduction as it is for animals” Oh yes they are and deluding yourself won’t change that.
“Are younger women only defined by their smell or looks” You bet they are.
Simple stuff here Pat. Time to revisit the issue as it is not as you want it to be. Look at the science Pat.
Not sure I agree with Loren’s assertion about young girls smelling better, but they definitely have an effect on men’s testosterone and desire. Sorry ladies, but there is some truth to the notion that older men are distinguised while older women are – well – just old. I think that a man will always choose a woman younger than him if he can….and women buy into this pehnomena also. The women’s beauty industry is a multi billion dollar industry in the US, and virtuall every cosmetic or beauty product is advertised with a goal of making women look young. I wonder how successful a company would be if it produced a face cream that was guaranteed to make a woman look 20 years older……
You make two points that are very interesting firstly I wish the beauty experts would make a cream to make you look older I am 37 looking well about 27 great at times but I was once asked aged about 22 if I was old enough to drive very embarrassing. Also Yes a man’s desirer increases when the lady is younger. I have my married man friend as mentioned on here before, after years of his wife not even kissing him I come along and all I need to do is kiss him for a while and well the result is rather obvious. Which as I am a very innocent 37 year old was rather good to know as I had never thought of me having that effect on a man and certainly not a man married and 18 years older than me.
It would appear that few people understand the role the environment plays in human development, including our social environment, it has been very well researched and it is now clearly understood that genes are both activated and deactivated based on environmental stimulus. It should come as little to no surprise to find men seeking the comfort of younger women when our society promotes younger women as sex symbols on an almost continual basis.
The research is in.
http://socialrebirth.org/environmental-impacts-on-human-development
I would like someone’s opinion– I have this female friend who is 31 yo. She is dating a man and has been for the last 6-7 years who is 40 years older than her. Now from what she has told me,the guy is married but he and his wife don’t love each other anymore and both have agreed to see other people,but yet they will not divorce (all 3 are Filipino). She says she loves him and he loves her. Also according to her, They plan on moving in with each other at some point in the future after his business deal is complete (he’s been working on this deal for 10 yrs). I tried to get more info from her about this but to no avail. To make matters worse,her family is against this(who could blame them) and basically got her to married someone whom they like but she doesn’t love (He’s in the US right now doing paperwork to get her there) I have tried to talk some sense into her and tried to get her to tell her husband that she doesn’t love him and get an annulment. I have also tried to tell her that the relationship with the older guy wasn’t a smart move either because he will never marry her and having that many years between,she’ll be the one who gets hurt in the long run. But she insist on being with him no matter what,even at the risk of losing her family over this guy.
I have a friend who is 65 years old, and his girlfriend is 18……He got her pregnant when she was 17 and she had twins……It hasn’t been even one year and now she is pregnant with twins again…….Are they both crazy to be doing this crap ? ? Of course they are ! But the fact remains that they are doing it……He wont let go of her, and she wont let go of him…….So there you have it ! It takes all kinds to make this crazy world……..Oh yes…..The girl’s divorced mother approves of the relationship ! Immoral ?? Maybe so, but it’s happening ! The point is that it does happen ! Keep in mind also that here in the U.S.A. we have learned too much crap from the churches…..But if you read the Bible, it is full of this kind of hanky panky…Christians are a bunch of hypocrites……..
many men at a certain age feel the need to be with a much younger woman, but since there is such an age difference it is very hard to keep the relationship going. a lot of younger women will go after older men for money, and it is very sad that these type of women take advantage of the older men.
Hello everybody, here every person is sharing these kinds of experience,
therefore it’s good to read this website, and I used to go to see this blog daily.
Haha I think the dude who wrote this is secretly trying to show younger women what a nice guy he is hoping to win a few……..nobody has a clue what goes on in some young womans mind and im offended that you publically steretype us older guys,and for that matter,the women also…….he needs to get that….Dan San Diego
umm, Johnny Depp is now dating a 26 year old model
I am 37 I had a crush on a man 18 years older than me and like a twit I did something no one thought I would ever do and I had never thought of doing before I told him how I felt knowing he is married well the outcome is we have a platonic relationship which does go beyond platonic but not all the way and the feelings between us are mutual. He loves me as much as I love him. I never intended this to happen but I am glad I did.
Well, to 31 I say ……… first when you say ” we are in a plotonic relationish ” …… but it goes beyond platonic! LMAO !!!!!! This is apparently a new and ongoing situation and I would bet you have no idea where it is going to go ….. only ideas on where you want it to go! Also, you are not some young girl that is persued by what some would refer to as a dirty only man like the 65 year old man who has leftt this very immature 18 year old with two sets of twins. You are a grown woman with 31 years of life experiece who I view as someone with very poor choices! ………………………. JUST SAYIN!
Thank you for your comment. However you have read what I put wrongly. I am 37 he is 55 that’s 18 years older than me. He is married however that relationship is not as good as it could be. This is a two way thing he could have told me where to go in fact that’s what I was expecting him to say but he chose not to. We both know how far we will let it go and unlike most people we will stop it if it feels it might go too far. So as far as I am concerned I feel that we are being mature about it unlike so many who end up saying those all too familiar words “it just happened” nothing just happens in this world.
This prissy little guy with six chinchillas doesn’t know what for. Just because a man is older doesn’t mean that he appreciates feminine beauty any less. He appreciates it more. And, to describe it as “leering” and “ogling” shows bias, based on the assumption that the man is a pedophile. There have always been and will always be the creeps, who get their jollies scaring women and little girls. They are a despicable fringe, and disdained by real men. Not every man is the male equivalent of a “cougar.” There is nothing wrong with a man of any age appreciating feminine beauty, even young feminine beauty, as long as they are respectful. Young women look like angels because they are more lately come from God.
Just wait till that older man develops ED. If a younger, needy woman comes along, all of a sudden taking that Viagra with the flushing side effects will all be worth it, whereas, it was a real problem with his wife of 30 years. If we women knew what we were up against down the road, we’d run kicking and screaming in the other direction.
Men will stay if they love the woman and if the sexual contact is still satisfying. Women have to accept the fact that they have to help ensure that it happens! Women that lose interest in sex – lose interest in looking good for their man – lost interest in keeping the relationship fresh and alive…those are the women that are in trouble.
I’ve said it before – men grow more distinguished with age while women often just grow old. Then add menopause on top of that? whth its accompanying loss of libido and physical changes that make sex difficult or painful? It’s a much more difficult position for women than for men. Don’t attack me – I didn’t design the system!
Men can get ED it’s true, but there are medical solutions for that. Woman, on the other hand, must create their own solutions. If you’ve had the same man in your life for 30 years then you’re already ahead of the game…you have the love and devotion. Don’t blow it by thinking that he’s not interested in sex anymore – just because you aren’t. That’s why he’s looking at the younger woman !
Are you people serious? I am 60 and old men look like hell. NOT distiinguished! I am not interested in younger men however because they are children. Looks should not matter and if they do you are a shallow SOB. When you old guys figure out that you look like shit also lol then maybe we can have a decent conversaiton. Is playgirl calling you for a pic op? Me either. My heart is sweet and kind. Cho Mos are Cho Mos are Cho Mos. That’s it. I consider women Cho Mos in the same posittion. These young ladies will kick you to the gutter when you get sick. You are only fooling yourself. Mother Nature will have her way with you. She is a bitch! haha
Beverlee has presented a perfect display of the reasons I prefer younger women better that I ever could! I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: older women turn me off because of their sour attitude towards life. It’s obvious that men her age aren’t interested in her. This, in turn, has created an aversion to any woman who is younger (note the phrase “playgirl” to refer to a younger woman?). I’m guessing she is divorced. She says her heart is sweet and kind, but she harbors a lot of hostility; just look at the words she uses! She also has a bad attitude towards herself (implying that, because she is older, she looks like s**t). You would never hear a younger woman talk or act like that! Each new day is a wonderful beginning for them, and they are full of life and full of zest. That’s the woman I want with me.
I’m with a younger woman – we have been together for a long time – we plan on marrying – she is willing to sign a prenup (which, by the way, I would want regardless of her age). I’m happy and she’s happy – that’s all that matters to us; it’s really no one else’s business.
I totally agree with the author of this article..I had been leered at by older men when I was in my teens and I definitely did not like it as well as I felt creeped out someone of that age would try to be with me. Also any man who is foolish enough to think only a girl 16 to 24 is attractive has got to be blind.. Many women in the world are beautiful over 24.. Kristy Brinkley happens to be one of them.. In the dating world from what I can see, most secure men over 30 usually pick women within 6 years of their own age because they want a relationship with someone who has similar interests other than just sexual..Too big of a age gap can create problems..If you dont believe me try reading Tanya Tuckers book revealing her own experience dating Glenn Campbell who was way older than her..She states that in the beginning the age gap wasnt as noticible untill later when she realized he not only couldnt keep up with her, but also got annoyed by her younger age difference interests and behaviours…In my opinion the author of this page hit a raw nerve with many older men who know they are following their lusts, more than using any common sense.. Oh and whoever wrote on here that only women under 24 smell good are completely foolish in their thoughts. Not all younger women are hygeine concious, and not all younger women are in shape either.. Many very overweight teens and 20 somethings out there…
I’m dating a delightful woman who is 31 years younger than I am. So I guess – according to your definition – I’m not secure. Okay…I’ll accept that – since it it your opinion! Just like it is your opinion that secure men over 30 pick mates within 6 years of their own age. I’m pretty sure you did not do a nationwide study on the issue before making that statement….
The simple fact is that there are many attributes that cause people to become attracted to each other, and age is only one. For you, age is obviously a big one, but for many others (including my fiancee) age is not as important. For me, age isnt important either; I did not pick Kate because she is younger. I picked her because we have fun together – we enjoy each other’s company and, believe it or not, we have many common interests. She is positive, full of life, and welcomes the arrival of each new day – just like me. I’m sorry to say that there are not a lot of women in my age range that have that same zest.
Will our relationship last? who knows? but can’t the same be said about any relationship these days? We’ve been together for 4 1/2 years, so we’re way beyond the “sex is great” stage, and if you knew me, you would know she’s not in it for money or great looks! The only way to guarantee that a messy breakup will not happen is to live your life alone. I, for one, do not choose that path!
You were creeped out by older men that approached you when you were young. That’s fine, but don’t make the mistake of thinking that all women feel the same way. There are many letters on this very blog that were written by women who dont mind…..
Dear God! 1473 comments! Mine has the honor of being the 1474th? You lads and lasses STILL haven’t figured this one out! Yikes!
Let me finish it for you: “When Older Guys Lust after Younger Women” one should not write an article on the subject, for it will CLOG up the e-mail of a certain ME. THE END!
“For the love of God Montressor!!”
Dudes! HE got sealed into a WALL!! Now go read Poe for the same length of time it takes me to retrieve my e-mail e-dress from this spam factory!!
I think this article is WAY off the mark. Attraction is a relative experience for everyone. Attraction is strictly defined by what people value. What people value is shaped by their exposure and experience to things in life. If someone is younger and mature and spends a lot of time with older people they wont have such a taboo by dating older. If someone is younger like in college, and inexperienced and spends 99% of their time around frat boys the same age, they will be uncomfortable dating older people. If someone is attracted to wealth, age will take a back seat. If someone is attracted to status, age will take a back seat. I know some friends who are nearing forty who are bartenders and young college girls are flinging themselves at them, knowing full well their age and not caring. This is because they are confident and attractive, which is what those women value, the age factor again takes a back seat. The same goes for men too. The problem is that the older men get, they are less attractive in some ways, but more attractive in others. So the types of girls they attract will change. Girls who only care about good looks will want to date them less, but ones who value security and status will want to date them more. It really depends on the woman. There are countless young men who are at the same age as women who do not get a fighting chance with young women their own age, and they are called creepy just as many times as older men. The bottom of the line is age doesnt really matter, you need only to be attractive to women, otherwise you will get rejected by them either way. The key is simply to have as many positive attributes in the pie chart that a woman values. As for the older women “With the benefit of hindsight and experience” it sounds like they are older and unwanted and have a jealous hatred from younger women who are now getting all of the attention, and no men want them anymore, so they have to come up with a reason to trash older men. This is obviously projection. Hatred from men from the 30-40s unmarried crowd these days is high…
Dude, peeps need to chill the frick out and quit overanalyzing shit like like this. If an old guy and young girl are attracted to one another, end of story. Quit getting caught up in this nonsense of a “perfect partner” cuz guess what? IT DON’T EXIST! So learn to make yourselves happy so that when you do fall in love or whatever, you enjoy it for the pure sake of enjoyment. By the way, I’ve wanted men twice my age since I was 14. I’m 21 now. My tastes ain’t changin’ anytime soon (well I don’t think I want a 60 year old when I’m 30, but you know what I mean–a man around 15 years older). Of course I’ve had to experience those douche bags who are like around 30 and think they’re too good for me because people are going to judge them for going after a college girl but ya know what? SCREW THEM! Probs gonna get an older guy than that lololol!! So I say the author of this article can frickin’ shove it and quit venting his insecurities on other people. Lead your own damned lives and let us lead ours.
I just for the life of me never understand why we’re so caught up in this equality bullshit when it ends up making stuff so drab and BORING! God, live a little! And people also need to stop shitting on younger girls just because they have that youthful charm…well men have to wait at least 30 years til they’re really all that attractive and taken seriously, so you know what? It all evens out in the end anyway. Let’s just accept nature and biology the way it frickin is. Oh yeah, and I’m not going to be one of those insecure nagging hags when I’m older because I’ll have at least enjoyed what I wanted to during my youth and can be at peace with serving society when I’m older. Lol.
I just broke up with my 12 year relationship. He was younger then me, not allot, but younger. Now he has moved on, very quickly I might add, with a 19 year old from Ohio. she just recently graduated high school. We live in Ontario. He is 31, and he thinks he loves her, only a 2 weeks after texting this young girl in the states. They never even met, while saying they love each other. How can he possibly love her, being 19, after being with me, for 12 years. Our break up wasn’t bad, and we even talked about getting back together. There were only minor reasons I ended it. Otherwise our relationship was wonderful. He ever told me, the same. Please help me understand. He is totally oblivious to what we had, two weeks after break up.
If the relationship was so wonderful why would you end it–and for minor reasons? I think he’s probably more aware of what you thought you had than you think. Why would he think you had something extra special when you ended it? Why would he think there was something to hold onto? Think a bit about your actions. Why should he be expected to wait for you when you ended it? If what you had was so great and wonderful, why would you end it?
Yeah, some men will hang on until there is absolutely no hope for a relationship to be salvaged, but there are also men who aren’t going to wait around for someone else to decided what direction their life is going to take.
I am sure it’s not a nice potion to be in, but you made your decision and now you have to live with the consequences of that decision.
you broke it off? then why are you worried about what he is doing at all? Move on and dont worry what he is doing. He found someone that is better for him – right now…. Stop whining
…he’s obviously a complete freak/psycho. i think you dodged a bullet there. i just feel sorry for the poor girl he’s predating on :S
Maybe he realized that someone that would end a relationship over “minor reasons” is someone he doesn’t want to be with.
Wow, sorry I pissed you off Emma. And you didn’t even reply to my messege, you just bashed me. No one asked for your rudeness.
The reason I ended it, was because I needed to make a point. He could not give emotionally, but he could love. It is hard to explain, however I know what i am talking about. He loved me so much! Twelve wonderful years to be exact. i need to show him, (and I told him the same) that if he didn’t try and show any emotion, I was gone. That is all that was wrong. That was it. He couldn’t show emotions, because he has been very damaged through his childhood. And I accepted this for a long time. We shared everything, even his tears, that was very hard for him to do. So now I see he running away from all this, to someone he barely ever see’s. You know why? So he doesn’t have to commit, or to show any emotion yet again. And I don’t understand why he has done this.
So Emma, instead of bashing people, and judging me, why not wait till you get a good description of the problem.
Emma, it is possible your relationship had an issue of maturity and he wanting by then a younger person, a relationship more equal for him from an emotional point of view. Might have been a nurturing relationship for him and a self confidence giving one for you, which has had it”s seeds for both of you. I do not believe in endings that occur from minor conflicts, I believe that your road together in that form ended. The saddest part is if you put some hopes into it lasting for more and some energies. You will have to let him experience and you to experience something different, too. You might have the surprise to find a new, even more fulfilling relationship. I read once that a relationship lasts until two persons share a common road… best wishes to you!
You ended it to prove a point? I’m sorry, I am not bashing anyone, I just asked a few questions.
Actually, your description of the problem only baffles me more with why you are confused that when you ended it, he decided to try someone one new.
Has he told you that he’s running away from you so that he doesn’t have to commit or show emotion or is this just something you assigned to him so that you can rationalize being right for your lack of commitment to him?
I am in a wonderful relationship going on 18 glorious years. We’ve had our ups and we’ve had our downs, but ending it to prove a point never crossed my mind because to me ending it shows a lack of commitment. If you can’t weather a person as they are now and you end a relationship because of it you are not committed to that person.
You may not see what you have done as a lack of commitment, but it is. If he is damaged from his childhood as you say, than ending the relationship after 12 years is you not being committed to him or the relationship you had with him.
Would you go back to someone who told you that you had to be someone other than who you are or they were going to leave?
Damaged people do not magically heal because someone wants them to behave in a different way. I am not bashing and I am sorry if you take it that way.
Commitment works both ways. If you can end a 12 year relationship because of a problem you knew about he may not see you as committed to him as you think you are.
Your comments are a bit strange to me. You said “he loved so much” and then that “he could not give emotionally”. This is contradictory. So are you sure you told the real reasons why you broke the relation ?
I am sorry that your relationship went the way it did! It sounds like you had your heart set on him changing and getting back together. Unfortunately giving a man or a woman an ultimatum to change usually does not work out in the long run!
I want to tell you about my ex-husband who was 9 years older than I. I was 22 and he was 31 when we married. He had an executive job for Ford Motors. He had been divorced but had no children. We were married for 22 year and had 2 children together. Life however was not all roses. He had a problem with alcohol as well as other women! I had become very depedent on his support. A few years before the divorce I started wroking as a flight attendant; a job I loved. However it took me away from home often. I had an accident and injured my cervical spine a few years later. Although I had nursed him back to health after an accident that had him out of work for over a year and a half , this man could not provide the support I needed to get me back on my feet. He told me he thought we would do better off getting a divorce after the first surgery to try and get me well. It was not what I wanted! I was now disabled and could not work and it seemed with no options. We had the worst divorce I have ever heard of! Finally a judge decided how our assets would be handled and awarded me half of his 401K and permenant spousal support as well as a portion of his pension! I found myself forever grateful to a judge when I realized that I would not have to depend on a man to support me ever again! He tried everything to get out of payng me what I had coming and would no longer even talk to me. I guess he thought I was just going to go away! It has been nine years now and I find myself to be much happier than I ever was and can tell you that although I cared for this man; my fears of caring for myself and my children kept me in place for a long time and would probably have kept me there indeffinately if he had not made the move to divorce me~ PS. He remarried 4 months after our divorce to a women he met in the bar while I was flying!
Life is good, I own 3 properties without mortgages; one I live in and 2 that I rent. I recieve a good portion of his pension along with social security and alimony. My belief is that many young girls looking for older men are looking for security! We were both relatively young when we married and I will not say I married him for his money but I would agree to the fact that I looked for someone that could handle the obligations of a family!
I was committed to him for 12 years, he did not. I gave all my soul into our relationship, more then I ever gave my ex. husband. Im ending this conversation. Only because no one knows what happened, what we went through, what I personally went through. And I guess it was wrong of me to post any comment. People are being very judgmental, without knowing the facts.
Hell knows no greater fury than a woman that’s scorned. Sorry Charlie, I have to agree with Emma. I also believe from some of the things you said, it now hurts you to see him move on to a potentially better situation for him after you gave him an ultimatum. My advice, find an older gentleman that will appreciate you and will always see you as a younger woman.
How do I stop receiving this?
Brooke- he could simply be that hurt over what this girl did to him- you do not know what happened.
19 years old is too young really… She still need to gain some maturity.
If she was 25 and him 37 (same age diff of 12 years) this would me more healthy
Monica,
Thank you for your concerns, but I have been happily married for over fourteen years and with the same wonderful man for almost twenty. I don’t believe the end of the road comes from a truly fulfilling relationship. It only grow stronger. Love grows stronger. That’s been my experience with marriage. There are no words to express the depth of love my husband and I have for each other. Yes, we both started out immature, but we consciously and purposely grew together instead of apart.
Emma, I am sorry, I by mistake mentioned your name, but my comments were addressed to Charlie!
Reading your reply, I can only say you have the luck and the fruits of a relationship that has indeed worked out. Something to remember for me, since I am after breaking up in a relationship which lacked consciousness and purpose.
Need a reality check people. Biology is the number one reason for older men younger women. Nature is our model and humans are the same. Discussion over.
Humans behavior is not dictated by biology only from a long time. You should know it !
We have big differences with animals : human sexuality is not only geared at reproduction
but has as an important emotional aspect : We do not make love only for reproduction.
Our education, culture in which we were raised have fare more impact on us than simply biology.
Have you ever hear about human psychology ? Humans don’t live only to eat & reproduce. Make
your own researches !
Discussion over you said… Oh please yes, no more of your immaturity and ignorance
Biology may explain his attraction to her young ovaries but how does it explain why in a large age gap relationship she has selected someone with poorer sperm mobility, more genetic mutations (children of age 40+ men have increased incidence of schizophrenia, down syndrome & autism amongst others) and reduced chance of seeing the offspring to adulthood?
Pat – Without commenting on my position with regards to Loren’s opinion, he has the right to say it. I’m actually willing to listen to him more than you because your personal attacks on him leave you little credibility with me.
I’m virtually certain you are a woman…I’m just wondering how old you are? Are you one of those women that has been personally affected by this phenomena? Knowing the background of people that post makes a big difference in how the audience can (and should) react to your message.
And I’d also be more willing to consider your point of view if you would write correctly. I can forgive one or two spelling / grammar mistakes, but more than that and I start to think that it’s difficult for you to properly express your thoughts.
“And I’d also be more willing to consider your point of view if you would write correctly. I can forgive one or two spelling / grammar mistakes, but more than that and I start to think that it’s difficult for you to properly express your thoughts.”
English is not my mother tongue. That’s reason why I make grammatical / errors. And you judge me only on this ? Can’t make just a reasoned comment ? And no i’m not a woman.
The comments of Loren are just horrible… young women smell better ? This is insulting to women. Typical
attitude of men considering women as objects. And yes his comments are immature.
I apologoze for the comment about the spelling and grammar, and I am not judging you…I simply said that Loren has the right to tell us what he feels. Your responses to him are not reasoned. I’m fine with you expressing your opposition to his thoughts, but instead of calling him immature or ignorant, simply tell the audience about your opinion. Let them make up their own mind. For example – stating that younger women smell better is not insulting to all women: only to older women. And calling him immature is your opinion – not a fact.
All the studies I’ve seen are inconclusive with respect to the incidence of birth defects except one – bipolar disorder. A Danish study – confirmed by the US Centers for Disease control – found an increase in the incidence of bipoliar disorder in the 2 to 3 percent range. This is a concern in many developing countries. However, the high quality prenatal care avalable in the United States largely cancels out the expected increase here, with bipolar increases among children of older fathers standing at less than one percent in the US. And I agree that older fathers have lower sperm motility and volume, but that effect only serves to reduce the chances of getting pregnant; it has no effect on birth defects. Contrast that with a woman who has passed menopasue; she has no chance AT ALL of ever having children again.
There is lots of evidence regarding the increase of genetic mutations in older fathers (there is advice that men should have sperm frozen when they are in their 20s to avoid the risk) particularly linking to autism & schizophrenia (neurological conditions), it’s not a huge increase but it’s an increase none the less. My point is the young mother has not chosen the best genetic bet when she chooses a significantly older father for her child (studies show from age late 30s to 40s the mutations increase, for every year of a man life there will be more) which doesn’t fit in with the biology theory presented here at all.
The biggest risk of all is the fact an older father has a higher chance of dying before his child reaches 18 years, between ages of 34-44 this doubles to 12%. Not good odds from the child’s (or mother’s) perspective.
I agree with the need to avoid being an older mother and all the inherent risks involved but men are not immune to ageing, two under 35 year old parents give the best outcome to their kids.
of course there is lots of evidence to support your assertions about birth defects. And there is lots of evidence to support my assertions – that’s why we call the issue inconclusive! You don’t cite any authority – you just say there’s lots of information – blah blah. And the article you mentioned in another post dealt with “intense mothers” – a coined phrase that comtemplates mothers that do too much mothering and bring stress on themselves. It has nothing to do with the basic genetic desire to nurture…it’s all about competition. Too many people living vicariously through their children….another reason to step back and stop worrying about age gap couples, if Billy can read Hamlet at age 2 – or anything else.
E – you are becoming more and more personal with your responses to me and your head seems clouded with your personal issues. It’s no longer challenging to discuss a controversy with you…it’s getting annoying. I don’t think I’ll be responding to your posts again.
I can’t wait to see how you answer this – I’m pretty sure you will – as you always have to get the last word in….
Here you go, I never like to disappoint…. I didn’t give you the links to the study because I assumed that you would either already know it (it was highly publicised) or you would Google it yourself if you were interested. Here it is anyway:
http://www.nature.com/news/fathers-bequeath-more-mutations-as-they-age-1.11247
My original answer was in reply to ‘Loren’ not yourself, I questioned the biology argument because (as I have already said) it would not explain why a young woman has chosen a mate who is not the best biological option. It was not a personal judgement on you (I only replied to you because you answered my post!), sorry if you read it as such.
You say I have to get the last word in but I’m replying to posts you have made in reply to mine. I posted the link to the stay-at-home moms depression study because it was relevant to the paradigm you asserted (with no studies whatsoever to back it up), these were women who by their own admission believed by nature of their sex they should be the primary care-givers as you yourself argue strongly yet they had higher incidents of depression. It doesn’t surprise me, I have personally come across many full-time mothers who have been depressed. I think the issues of depression and rising divorce rates are very complex indeed but to claim if women stayed at home with their children everything would be better is very simplistic and I have yet to see evidence it would help anyone.
You claim that I am personal in my responses to you yet my last two replies mentioned nothing of your personal situation or mine, they were mostly regarding research studies. Read your own reply to me above with “blah, blah” and “you always have to get the last word in…” (Nice double bind that one) what is that if not personal?
not have to depend on a man ever again? you are getting his alimony and 1/2 of his retirement. What do you call that ? I call it dependence. He is supporting you for the rest of your life!