Cameron Conaway wonders if our laziness has turned sex into just another checklist item.
Let’s cut the crap. Much of the conversation around men and porn is based on the absolute rarity—the guy who actually watches an hour’s worth of storyline, who actually watches it as film or acting or anything else other than the two-minute means to an end that it is.
Much of the conversation is through the rose-colored glasses of academia and then through the lens of liberalism. (I’m as liberal as they come. President Obama is a conservative in my book.) I decided, after weeks of reluctance, to join* the conversation. Especially when my research showed me that a porn site was listed just under FoxNews.com in the global traffic rankings.
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According to actual men (and Alexa.com), men use porn to do the deed as quickly as possible, so they can then do other shit. Some estimates say they log on to porn sites for 30 seconds, choose a video, watch for 60 seconds, get off, then log off. When biologically-driven urges arise, they visit a website, pull their draws down, spend a few seconds searching for which video will work the fastest, then spend a minute or so masturbating, then another cleaning up, then they get back to work on their accounting flow chart or preparing for their interview.
Tom Matlack’s “A Dozen Questions for Men” article got me thinking on many issues, one of which: Are men supposed to be monogamous? As a deeply-committed man, my gut said yes, but my rational said side Hell no. Men think of sex nonstop, and because these roots are biological, it’s not always thoughts about our loved ones. That said, men aren’t biologically helpless. They can work to rewire their brain to make those thoughts happen less often, and of course their actions are what matter most. This led to a re-reading of Jennifer Evans’ “It Shouldn’t be a Dirty Little Secret” post and then again to Hugo Schwyzer’s posts, in particular” On Being, Being Discreet, and Insanity.”
Then I researched some of the top porn sites and realized it doesn’t take a studied poet to see how the bits of language used as titles are meant to fuel the traditional view of “manliness,” you know, that men are dominant beasts and women are helpless little things that either beg to be dominated or are helpless against being dominated. The majority of the videos (including those with the highest views) often featured words and phrases like: loses virginity, forced, handcuffed, tied, drunk, hidden, private, smashed, banged, begs, tricked, petite, gagging, crying, super-tight, first-time, brutalized… and this doesn’t include the many depictions (passive, physically frail, easy, begging, needy, ever-craving) or the outright descriptions (slut, bitch, whore, bad, naughty, cheating, etc.) which, of course, justify a man (or several men) to dominate them physically and sexually. In many videos, the man couples physical abuse with verbal abuse by belittling the woman.
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Porn is for wimps because porn (and I mean the porn that most men use) is the passive and imagination-cutting easy way out. Are we so used to quick fixes, be it with food or beliefs—not only because they are easy, but because they are forced on us by advertisements, groups and culture—that our sexuality has become a thing to do on a checklist? Have we entered an age so fast-paced that even romance takes too damn long? Couple this with the fact that porn is often hidden from significant others, and we only increase its level of wimpiness.
Will the day arrive when we can ejaculate with the push of a button? Will the day arrive when actually using our imagination to masturbate, or controlling our imagination not simply to replay the videos of violent porn we watched, will be considered work?
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Whereas Evans says, “the as-yet-unproven assumption that the outcome of viewing porn can only be dangerous, violent, and bad,” I respond with, “We know jokes to be funny, and we know crimes to be bad without scientific proof. Sometimes science tells us what we already know.” Men know that repeated exposure to these unrealistic fantasies can make sexual relations with their partner boring, the educated know that repeated exposure to anything really, but particularly here regarding porn, can, as Hugo said, “perhaps… rewire the brain.” We know this is true before science explicitly tells us.
Then Hugo said, “In our sexual lives as in every other area, we all have to do the delicate dance of staying true to ourselves while honoring the needs, desires, and boundaries of the people we love,” and I thought how difficult it must be to even have the will to do a delicate dance when fantasy fulfillment is a click away. When you’re hungry after a long day, it can be awfully tough to fight temptation and walk past 100 stands of your favorite splurge foods just to get home to cook something. Porn isn’t just about the fulfilling of fantasies, it’s also about the creating of new, often unrealistic, often disturbing fantasies.
Will the day arrive when we can ejaculate with the push of a button? Will the day arrive when actually using our imagination to masturbate, or controlling our imagination not simply to replay the videos of violent porn we watched, will be considered work? Will the day arrive when we are too damn lazy to actually engage in an act of sex? Many bookstores have cut literary sections and replaced them entirely with vampire thrillers. Pixar’s WALL-E doesn’t seem too far off.
There’s nothing wrong with sex or with videotaped sex or with porn in general. But nothing is perfect, and to deny that problems do exist, to deny looking at something for what it is, to deny that the high levels of continual misrepresentation and devaluation of human relationships (sexual and beyond) in our culture is dangerous, and to deny that porn is a part of this picture, is to be either absolutely naive or an absolute wimp. To be a man means not just to control our actions, but to develop the craft to control the thoughts that may alter or lead to actions. A loyal and faithful and committed man, in this writer’s long pent-up and finally expressed opinion, is not one who needs porn to fulfill desires masked as needs, let alone desires he may not even have had if porn weren’t available in the first place.
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Other unexpectedly wimpy things:
(1) Starting each day with a big bowl of Wheaties. There’s more to the breakfast of an actual champion than processed whole wheat, sugar, preservatives and a cheap vitamin powder. Getting a good protein source and some healthy fats along with your carbs can go a long way to regulating hormone levels, balancing blood sugar levels, and jump-starting your mind and body.
(2) Living based on religious texts rather than your own thoughts. Even some seemingly peaceful Buddhists watch cripples drag their legless torsos across the street without helping them. Their reason is karma, that this person was bad in a previous life. Heaven could exist or not exist, it could be a place caterpillars sing and two-legged sharks serve h’orderves for all we know. Let’s admit it and move on.
Additional reading: Click here for some interesting statistics about porn.
*I’ve taken some heat over the years as a writer who always plays the middle road and doesn’t take a stand. While that heat did not spark this article, it did lead to this reflection: Not all opinions are equally valid. Sometimes the middle road, especially for critical thinkers, is for those unwilling to take a stand when taking a stand is what is right. I recently spoke with famed Canadian playwright Brad Fraser. He told me experiences he’d been in that could have and should have caused his death. Then he said, “So I decided decades ago not to waste any time or opportunities and to always say what I actually thought because many involved in similar situations didn’t get that chance.” He said in many ways it’s been the greatest gift of his life.
—Photo Pal Berge/Flickr
Some women use sex toys because their mates are so desensitized by pornography that god forbid I can’t get off in three minutes, oh well he is done so you must be done too.
Extra Reading…
[…]we like to honor other sites on the web, even if they aren’t related to us, by linking to them. Below are some sites worth checking out[…]…
Cameron, if the GMP posted 1 article a week, every week on the “evils” of women’s use of sex toys but not a single solitary time even acknowledged the very similar “evils” of men’s porn use, it would no doubt be perceive as completely reasonable and even expected if someone pointed put that inconsistently. Why the difference in the converse?
Erin – “Women sit back and masturbate while reading a romance novel? I am not fully convinced on that.” Indeed they do. At least many have said that they do. They use the mental images and scenarios from those novels. They aren’t all the classic Fabio novels. As women get older the may move onto more realistic ones. My point is that they create masturbatory fodder. Moreover, they also use their battery operated, chargeable or even plug-in virtual lover that no man can compete with. We don’t vibrate and don’t have 16 settings. “Further, you can’t go wrong with comparing… Read more »
Ummmm…Eric, I just want to clarify that there are different types of feminists. I am a feminist, a sex-positive one. I have zero problem with porn or sex toys.
Eric – I am not fully convinced on women masturbating to romance novels but I’m not saying it’s impossible. In my experience most women that read romance novels just enjoy the actual romance in it and aren’t getting sexually off to it. I’d love to see a poll on that one. Again, I think a more fair comparison is comparing male sex toys (fake vaginas or blow up dolls) to female sex toys and masturbation material to masturbation material. Sex toys don’t support social and sexual themes between women like masturbation material might. THat is if we really get deep… Read more »
The comparison is very apt because: 1) Women use sex toys as a means to be touched by a virtual someone other than their partner. Men hardly ever do that. Almost no men would even care if such things were banned. 2) Just like many women feel about competing with porn, mo man compete by vibrating and having 16 different settings. No matter how skilled he thinks he is, he can’t do what a multifunction sex toy can. And, he only has one penis. It’s always the same size. He can’t compete with a toy that’s bigger, if she enjoys… Read more »
Sex toy is to sex toy as masturbation material is to masturbation matirial Eric. While both sex toys and masturbation can be under the broad idea of “tools used to reach orgasm”, you do not encounter relational issues and sexual portrayls between the genders with a dildo or a fake vagina that you do with material that portrays interactions between the genders in highly sexual situations. Ignorning that is dishonest. So if you want to compare a sex toy to a sex toy, please do. If you don’t think it’s fair for a woman to have a sex toy, then… Read more »
Women use sex toys to get off by themselves, just as men use porn for the same purpose. Bottom line. Except that that is the express purpose of sex toys but not necessarily porn’s purpose. A dildo is a substitute sex organ, something that far, far more women use than men. They are made to look and feel like the male sex organ but better because of extra electronics. A huge difference is that they “touch” sexually, whereas porn does not. It’s a virtual lover. Porn is pictures or movies. Porn is not always used for masturbation, sex toys are… Read more »
Eric M,
I think you’re missing the point here: Porn’s impact on the mind. Again, it comes down to analogies making sense within the context they are used. Comparing sex toys to porn simply doesn’t, in the way you’re trying for.
~Cameron
Cameron, what is happening in the mind of a woman who is using a 10″ realistic vibrating sex toy when her 6″ husband is at work or asleep? Her grocery shopping list? You are and Erin are (perhaps intentionally) missing that point.
Eric,
I see that point and I agree with you 100% on it. But I think you’re using it as a way to counter rather than as the separate point that it is.
~Cameron
Eric – perhaps you could write an article talking about the issues you feel are important regarding sex toys. I would be interested in reading such a piece like that. And then we could have the conversation you are more interested in having.
Erin – Thanks for the suggestion but Cameron has already written the article. Beginning with the paragraph that reads “Porn is for wimps because . . . ” Simply replace “porn” with “sex toys” and you’ve got your article, with very few changes needed. The points that Cameron makes apply to the use of sex toys just as they do to porn.
I’m calling you out on this Eric. Cop out. Most artciles ever written have been written before. Especially when it comes to age old gender or sex issues. What makes the articles interesting is each person’s personal perspective. You can’t steal Cameron’s words and apply them to your personal viewpoint of sex toys. Maybe he would agree with you, maybe he wouldn’t. But it’s unfair to take another’s work and act like it would be the same exact ast yours. Apparently you feel passionately about the role sex toys play, right? Otherwise, why would you mention it right? If you… Read more »
“You can’t steal Cameron’s words and apply them to your personal viewpoint of sex toys.” Come on, Erin – I own a couple copyrighted terms. Not a single of the words or terms Cameron used are copyrighted, so it’s not possible for me to “steal” them. And although I wouldn’t use the exact same phraseology, the points he made clearly apply to the use of sex toys. “Maybe he would agree with you, maybe he wouldn’t.” There’s no maybe about it. He already said he agreed with me about the use of sex toys. Which is perfectly logical because they… Read more »
One more thing about the article you propose: it would never be published here or on any other feminist web site because it questions and accuses women not men. That would be considered anti-feminist misogyny here. Would never happen. The same thing done to men is considered pro-feminist and treated as sport.
Eric – Really? Copyrighted? Come on. That comment was purely manipulative. Do you have your own thoughts or not? It’s lazy to use Cameron’s ideas as a backdrop to yours. I don’t have an issue with you wanting to discuss the role sex toys play with women or in a sexual life. What I do see an issue with is using the position of sex toys to distract from the topic of porn. Both of these issues can be discussed and exsist at the same time. Despite both being tools used to reach sexual gratification, these tools are absorbed and… Read more »
“Eric – Really? Copyrighted? Come on. That comment was purely manipulative.” You said I was “stealing” Cameron’s words, as if they were copyrighted. “Do you have your own thoughts or not?” Yes. But Cameron and I happen agree on the issue of the use of sex toys. “I don’t have an issue with you wanting to discuss the role sex toys play with women or in a sexual life. What I do see an issue with is using the position of sex toys to distract from the topic of porn.” I point out hypocrisy where it exists. It’s too bad… Read more »
@Cameron Conaway So if watching porn makes men “wimpy” wouldn’t watching MMA make men just as “wimpy.” In a way it gives men and it’s audience as much of a violent rush as porn does a sexual rush. MMA’s hardened bodies that are ready to do battle are even more unrealistic than porn (most fighters have dieted, dehydrated and trained their bodies so they have dropped weight before the fight). Their is the dehumanizing language (i.e.: “being p’owned”) in mma. Finally it is as readily available as porn… So admit it watching MMA/UFC is as ‘wimpy’ as watching porn. Just… Read more »
SnakeEyez – I don’t see your point at all. I’ve trained for over 17 years and at 49 am in great or better shape than ever. I am involved in MMA training and teaching for over 12 hours a week. Those that do the watching MMA with no knowledge of what is going on are probably looking for the violent knock out… that rush you mention. Masterbating to this seems quite a stretch…. Pulling up porn to get a quick nut and then move along has no rational comparison to MMA/UFC events…. unless of coarse the person pulls up the… Read more »
Porn is a chore for some, and for others it’s a quick fix. Let’s face it: not all men are the same. We look at the feminist movement and see, rightfully so, that not all women are the same, but men… Oh, we all suck at housework, think about sex non-stop, and worry about our favorite sports teams… Except, we don’t. My fiancee is a porn actress, not a famous one mind you, but that illusion is for another article, but porn for me ends up being about marketing and research. We watch together mostly, for hours at a time,… Read more »
so masturbating to your imagination rather than porn makes you “strong”?
That seems to be the implication.
It shouldn’t be about using your imagination either. Porn on a screen or Porn in your mind is generally the same thing. Rather, healthy masturbation where you simply enjoy the sensation will better prepare you to fully enjoy your time with a woman. I was one of those guys who fit the mold of what the author illustrated. 30-60 seconds finding the right clip.. then a few minutes.. finish and off to whatever I was doing next. Then when I got into a relationship, I ultimately was just all about get off and get done.. Which ultimately turned into me… Read more »
A most interesting discussion. Thank you all for that.
Cheers!
Oh, and sorry for typos, etc. I do have other things I’m trying to get done today. 😉
Ugh…ya know folks, there’s a LOT of bad, unimaginative porn out there. There’s also some good, sex-positive feminist porn out there that features women with real bodies and real orgasms who still do all sorts of kinky things. I do agree with Cameron, porn is often used by both men and women as a crutch that allows them to avoid real intimacy and vulnerability with real partners. At the same time, it would be nice to see women take some responsibility for their insecurities. Yes, women’s bodies age. No, we’re not all supermodels. However, we can be sexually attractive to… Read more »
You’re right Jeni, there is “some” feminist porn out there but it is very much in the minority, and I think it’s pretty safe to say that most porn users (men) aren’t looking for it or using it. Yes, we can be confident and self loving, but suggesting that it’s unreasonable to draw positive feelings and confidence from a partner is well, unreasonable. That’s a large part of a healthy reciprocal relationship. No one here has suggested that they expect their partners to not see, or even not be attracted to others. That’s human nature. It’s great that you have… Read more »
I have to disagree.
I found Jeni’s comment refreshing and her different approach positive.
Not everything must come.to peoples lives on silver platters. Sometimes one hato do some work on him/herself instead of just throwing the blame towards the other end of the field.
What is supposed to be arriving on silver platters?
jesuscrunk, Both you and Cameron make the very valid points that most porn users are not watching feminist porn. That is likely true. I don’t argue with you there. I’m just tired of generalizing about it. I guess I come at relationships from a different perspective since I don’t really engage in monogamous ones. Yes, you can draw positive feelings and a certain amount of emotional support from a partner but to expect that partner to only one to validate your sexual attractiveness and self-worth is a tad excessive and co-dependent. When your partner goes off to spend the night… Read more »
Jeni, I think what younger saying works for some people who have a lot of options, but try being a woman who has had a couple babies, or is in her 40’s or 50’s while your husband goes off to spend the night with a younger or perkier woman he finds “attractive and worthwhile,” and wait to see if he ever comes back…. 🙂
Jill, I’m 37, have had two kids, and am, by all accounts, flat-chested. Believe me, I know I don’t look like I did at 20, 25, or even 32. Yes, sometimes I feel insecure about it…but the people I am in relationship with value me for more than my physical appearance. Also, younger women often look great but they can be high maintenance, don’t know who they are, and aren’t very good in bed. Aging is not easy for anyone but it does have certain perks. Lastly, if your marriage is in such a state that the only thing keeping… Read more »
Seems to me Jeni, that what is the topic here is the general sense and feeling of respect within a relationship. That is determinable by, and only by, the ones who are in the relationship. However that relationship looks to be from others on the outside is never accurate. Or is even shared between partners within the relationship! Perspective creates the relational experience and each is unique. You seem to have a very open perspective and a almost disassociated sense of how you bond with your partner(s). Few people seem to be able to maintain, or want that. I also… Read more »
Kenny,
How I got to this point is a long story. My philosophy on bonding with my partners is fairly common amongst the polyamorous. I recommend reading The Ethical Slut and even googling Polyamory to find out more.
You’re right, I could be wrong about both DaddyFiles and Erin. All I have to go on is a few weeks of reading their posts. This is what I have taken away from that. If my impression is wrong, then it is wrong.
Yes, absolutely, sex is and can be a blissful loving experience. And everyone arrives there in their own way, just as you said. However, labeling Erin’s or anyone else’s opinions as “shut down” simply because they differ from yours pretty much invalidates your argument. Congratulating yourself for having an open relationship and enjoying mainstream porn comes of more as self-satisfied and smug than open minded. Especially after referencing a condition in your own relationships, and then disparaging Erin for doing the same thing. You said it yourself. Everyone gets to choose their own life. Please stop suggesting that you are… Read more »
LOL I’m not labeling her opinions as “shut down”. I’m labeling her sex life as “shut down”. I think I am happier than many of you…at least when it comes to sex. I certainly have much less to complain about. As far as open-minded is concerned, well, I did monogamy for a number of years. I’ve also done being sexually “shut down”. I was anorgasmic for many years. I’ve been there so I do think I can make comparisons. Open relationships are not for everyone. I don’t claim they are. But I do think that approaching monogamy from a conscious… Read more »
Jesuscrunk – Jeni is being “self-satisfied and smug”? I think this is simply you lashing out at your own projections toward sex-positive types than anything, because I don’t see “self-satisfied and smug” in anything Jeni has written. If there’s an unwillingness to look outside of one’s narrow framework anywhere here, that would be in Erin’s long rants.
I think what Jeni is suggesting is that some of the problems with porn in a relationship are deep down problems with monogamy in a relationship. What I mean is that for some partners porn feels like cheating, something that triggers jealousy. Viewing it is like being non-monogamous in your mind or imagination somehow. Maybe it is, but in that case maybe there’s a problem with the way that people think of monogamy. Maybe the expectations of monogamy in that relationship or with that person are not healthy or realistic. I think it’s unrealistic, could be even a little sick… Read more »
I think jealousy is usually rooted in a fear that if the person you care about has divided their attention, you will not get your own needs met. The main reason that people get into relationships is because they have needs. Needs for companionship, needs for emotional support, needs for sexual release, needs for general help in life and all the rest of it. At some level, people fear being alone, being abandoned, and being rejected. Polyamory, I would argue, is one strategy for dealing with fears of abandonment simply by spreading your needs around among several different people. Monogamy… Read more »
You’re right. Jealousy is rooted in fear.
There’s nothing wrong with being monogamous if that’s what you choose for yourself. If one of the rules of your monogamous relationship is that porn is cheating, then neither of you should view porn.
I just don’t want to be told that I am bad for viewing porn or that someone else is bad for viewing porn or that porn cannot fit within the context of other people’s relationships or even that all porn is bad.
Gosh Jeni..you’re kind of like my little stalker aren’t you. I kind of like it. Truly, I am flattered …..but…if you are going to use me as an example in your postings, at least get what I’ve said right. I’m going to have to ask you that any future comments you make on this subject, that when you’re discussing this subject with other people, you’ll leave me kindly out your commentary because you can’t get a handle on what I’ve actually said. You’ve projected an idea of me that has nothing to do with anything I’ve ever said…over and over… Read more »
Erin, In the past you have said that the women who are involved in sex work were somehow abused or had something wrong with them. You have inferred that they are somehow victims and that normal, healthy women would not be involved in sex work. I have told you repeatedly that is often not at all the case. I have given you examples of well-known women in the sex industry who actually enjoy the work they do. I have also informed of the many friends I have who work in the sex industry who are pretty normal, healthy women. You… Read more »
Jeni – I understand that you don’t agree with my assessment that many of the women involved in the sex work industry come from abused backgrounds. Just like I don’t agree with your assessment that many of the women involved in the sex work industry are perfectly happy and healthy individuals who just really love sex. Especially considering the amount of problems in the industry with drugs and alcohol. I think the sex industry prays on people who are infact victims from their past. I think most men and women recognize that most healthy people don’t get into a line… Read more »
Erin, Maybe you have a wild and crazy sex life. I don’t really care either. The point I have been trying to make is that it is all pretty subjective and making judgments about porn or men or women who view porn is not very firm ground to stand on. Just because you or even ‘most’ women don’t enjoy the activities portrayed in porn doesn’t mean that there are not lots of women who do. Lastly, research has shown that women who have cast off a lot of the social programming around sex generally have higher sex drives, fewer inhibitions,… Read more »
Erin,
You know what? I want to apologize for the arguments I have been presenting to you, etc. I just realized my sexuality is fundamentally different from that of most people. This is why I am not offended by porn or much else. I want something much different than other people do. Expecting others to want or do the same things is silly.
Other than that, I’m tired of this conversation.
jeni – I’m glad you are tired of the conversation because you haven’t really said anything about the actual topic of the thread. All you’ve done is make erroneous comments about me. All because of my views on porn. Not because of anything I’ve said about men because I’ve never said men were awful people for liking porn. You calling me a jackass says more about the kind of person you are then it does the kind of person I am. You’re horrified by my responses? I don’t think you are. I just think you got it in your head… Read more »
One thing I don’t see being addressed is why men can’t depend on women for sexual release. When I’m not in the mood for sex, and my fiance is, it takes almost zero energy from me to get him off. He doesn’t like doing it himself. Perhaps he’s one of the rare men that constantly wants emotional intimacy tied with sexual release, even if I’m not in the mood. It’s like, “Oh, my wife doesn’t want sex. Let me go to porn,” instead of, “Well, maybe she won’t mind getting me off. It doesn’t take much from her to do… Read more »
Ummm…. 30 odd years of training is kinda hard to undo. Males masturbate while they are in the womb (girls do to I imagine). Imagine asking your female classmates in grade 1 (or grade 9 for that matter) to get you off? See the problem? Should we not be at least somewhat autonomous sexual beings or, as you are implicitly suggesting, should we be completely enslaved to your willingness to get us off? I think that everyone needs a bit of sexual autonomy. Also, what if she doesn’t do it right? Again, I come back to my point made above.… Read more »
Amber: When I’m not in the mood for sex, and my fiance is, it takes almost zero energy from me to get him off. From my perspective if I’m in the mood for sex and she’s not yes it would take no effort on her part to get me off but it would probably affect me too because at that point I know she’s just lying there waiting for me to finish. Not that pleasurable to me. But I can promise you if she’s not in the mood, there’s no shame in asking for a handy from her. That mixes… Read more »
A little bit of Skittles porn – please guys, no wanking to it
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhX7eK9VzbDs1IxJ62
Y’now I can understand the responses mentioning that women feel unloved etc when there partner looks at porn vice them but really in 2011 is that really an excuse? I say to women, if you want genuine equality in this world then it time to get off your rear ends and compete with the porn stars that you seem so afraid of. If women want a genuine challenge why not take on the female role in porn and out compete it so that men realise that their woman isn’t someone to just drop their bundle and have a cry. The… Read more »
So you’re saying women should just cave into what men view in porn? What kind of logic is that?
I think the author is onto something, if a little indirectly. Although I don’t think laziness or wimpiness is the issue, I kind of see where he’s going. He can correct me if I’m wrong in my interpretation. It’s a little sad that for some people the pace of modern life has made masturbation into something that is perfunctory, over as soon as possible, and squeezed (sorry) into a busy schedule in front of a computer that consumes most of your other time as well. I don’t think rubbing one out quickly is bad in itself, but there’s more to… Read more »
I just think it’s strange to romanticize masturbation. It’s like romanticizing showering or defecating or brushing your teeth. I have no guilt issues with masturbation but it’s not an emotional experience for me.
So you are recommending taking time with masturbation. Given some of the commentary on this and other threads, I’m getting the impression that if men started to run a bath, light some candles, play some romantic music – all towards taking time to masturbate properly, that we would be in a worse conundrum of opinion than we are now.
Darling – you’ve been in there for two hours. Do you want to borrow my Marie Claire? – we’re going to be late for dinner!
In response to both Rick and elissa: It was wrong of me to suggest that all men masturbate for the same reasons or see the activity the same way. Some men do see it as a kind of necessary hygiene, and they have every right to do so. My own view is that masturbation is a kind of individual sexual activity, and I tend to think of it in terms of something that is supposed to feel good. Feeling good is a major reason for doing it, not just as some sort of safety-valve milking. As with many forms of… Read more »
Perhaps romantizing is the wrong word all around. Porn isn’t about romance and it’s clearly not creating lovey dovey feelings. But to say that porn creates no feelings in men but to act as a function of a bodily release seems a bit naive. I use to work in advertising. Advertising works because of it’s hidden ability to generate good feelings without the viewer even realizing it. I think porn acts much the same way. It’s generating some very strong masculine feelings in men for men to even be able to respond to it the way they do. These feelings… Read more »
To all — First, I don’t see why masturbation *should* be some long, drawn-out process where we spend 3-4x the amount of time fantasizing that we could do with porn. A visual image can help to focus the mind much more easily…and create a sexual vibe that just standing by myself in the shower flat-out does not. Sure, sometimes the long experience is better but sometimes it’s nice to meet your needs and move on. I love gourmet dinners with people I care about, but that doesn’t mean that I want to spend 2-3 hours every single night eating foie… Read more »
I don’t think women in porn are perfect. I do recongnize that there are many body types in porn when it comes to the smaller sectors of porn. However, the most popular kind of stuff, the stuff that shows up the most, is usually about a very limiting age and body type of women. I really dislike this idea of trying to portray porn as some equal oppurtunity of respect for women. You also said that you agree that a 15 year old being regularly exposed could be damanged, but that a grown man whose ever had sex with an… Read more »
“Men know that repeated exposure to these unrealistic fantasies can make sexual relations with their partner boring, the educated know that repeated exposure to anything really, but particularly here regarding porn, can, as Hugo said, “perhaps… rewire the brain.” And why it is that anyone would willingly subject something as precious as their life partnership to that risk?? I stay away from porn because of how unfair it would be to my partnership. Let’s say I surf online and find, for example, hot young Brazilian guys, most of whom will be in their early 20’s, hung like donkeys, spending their… Read more »
Lili Bee, I congratulate your on your restraint w/r/t porn. Do you just as urgently avoid romance novels, movies, magazines, sex toys and similar other material that would have a similar effect of romantic arousal by someone or something other than your partner.
How did porn start equaling every stereotypical female media alive? Men have plenty of mainstream media that caters to their whims and desire. Men have mainstream movies. Men have mainstream magazines. Romance novels to women is as video games is to men. Both have strong sexual themes sometimes. Both are enjoyed by one gender over the other. Neither are usually something most people are masturbating to. Magazines to women is as magazines to men are. Hello Cosmo and Maxim. Female centric movies are to women as male centric movies are to men. Hello Bridesmaids and Transformers. Dildos are to women… Read more »
“Romance novels to women is as video games is to men.”
Men don’t sit back and masturbate while playing a video game, but women do while reading steamy romance novels, fantasizing about the scenario in the book.
“Dildos are to women as fake female vaginas are to men.”
Just as men consume porn far more than women, women use sex toys (dildos, vibrators, both) far more than men as a sexual outlet. Sex toys do for women what porn does for men, provides a sexual outlet other than one’s partner. It’s the very same thing.
Eric – Women sit back and masturbate while reading a romance novel? I am not fully convinced on that. We should do some kind of poll. I use to read romance novels when I was younger but the older I got, the less interesting they got. But I never masturbated to them. And I know many other women that don’t either. So that’s why I tend to think video games to romance novels is a more fair comparison. Further, you can’t go wrong with comparing sex toys to sex toys right? There are sex toys that could provide men with… Read more »
Erin,
The only reason I every read romance novels is for the masturbatory materials. I don’t even read them to the end. I stop reading once the main characters have had sex twice. After that, what’s the point? All the best sex in the story is finished.
Comparing what men use versus what women use to masturbate demonstrates a fundamental ignorance of human sexuality.
“Comparing what men use versus what women use to masturbate demonstrates a fundamental ignorance of human sexuality.”
You have demonstrated that what I said is 100% accurate. Men and women use these things as a shortcut to sexual satisfaction or as you put it, “masturbatory materials.” To deny that “demonstrates a fundamental ignorance of human sexuality.”
Hi Eric- Thanks for the question….I have to correct one erroneous adjective you used to describe my abstinence from porn, and that’s your use of the word “urgent” when you asked, ‘Do you just as urgently avoid romance novels, etc…” There is zero urgency in my approach to my sexuality and lover. Why would there be? It’s all about my keeping my eye on the prize, in this case, what I consider a mutually respectful, loving, honoring sexuality. Similarly, I have a goal to be in peak physical shape. Do I go to the gym with urgency in my quest… Read more »
Lili Bee, thanks for your comment and clarification. Let’s substitute the word “urgent” with “conscientiously.” I hope that is a better fit. So, now, would you mind answering the question?
Do you just as conscientiously avoid romance novels, sex toys, etc. that c/would have the effect of romantic arousal by someone or something other than your partner?
Hi Eric- I WILL answer your question, which I see has valid underpinnings to it, but am taking some time to write my response out thoughtfully….
More soon….
I have been learning some of the science about porn. That has been far more effective in changing my views about porn use than anything I’ve heard before. Read more about it here: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow
Strange isn’t that?
Thank you for checking back and letting me know. I look forward to it.
Lili Bee, This is the most raw, practical response yet. You boiled this entire discussion into how it all translates into the actual human world. “I don’t get to zip that compartment ‘filled-with-hot-guy-fantasies’ shut, the way one zips up one’s pants after a release.” So true. Unfortunately, people think they are superheroes and that things they take into their mind and body are completely eliminated seconds later…not part of them at all. It’s beyond my comprehension why someone would read your post, then hover the cursor over the thumbs down and press it. It makes me wonder just how bad… Read more »
I’ve seen in several posts now the idea that one’s partner will feel bad if you watch porn that shows people who are physically more attractive than your partner. I’m starting to see a good general rule shaping up here:
Rule 1: Only watch porn that shows people who look far worse than your current partner does.
Cameron, I really enjoyed your response to The Wet One and agree with it 100%. Thanks for taking the time out to comment on common words used in porn in your 5th paragraph. For me, porn isn’t just about lust. It says something specific about women and men. And unfortunately, usually the words used in porn to describe women are negative. And it’s rare for us to be that honest and raw about that. Despite the way porn projects women, I don’t think most men think women are worthless. But I don’t understand why a lot of men seem to… Read more »
The real world really sucks doesn’t it? Clearly, the Internet changed everything. I hope our species is able to survive this interlude. Given the talk here, I sometimes doubt it. I also wonder why women feel they are in competition with men’s fantasies? I suspect it may have something to do with women’s desire being stoked by being desired: (see here for reference http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?adxnnl=1&pagewanted=6 and in particular at page 7). Men don’t let their competition (be it real or imagined) get in the way of their enjoyment of sex. We don’t need to be desired quite as much (but it… Read more »
The Wet One, I agree women feel excited by the level of desire their mate as for them. Because we all know that to be feminine is to be beautiful. We all know that men want a beautiful women and women tend to be more forgiving about men’s looks then men are about women’s looks. It’s the reason women wear make up and do their hair in salons and it’s the reason that most men don’t wear make up or do their hair at a salon. I also agree that men don’t always have the same desire to be desired… Read more »
Just a question Erin, did you read the link? Second point, both 15 year olds and 30 olds enjoy the same thing. It never really changes. It’s just that a 30 year old should be more cognizant of the fantasy than a 15 year old. You should also talk to my sister about these things. She’s validated many of my views about women and she’s a smarter person than I am. Do you know what kind of porn I like? I’m curious… Also, I did not intend to insuinuate that I think women are dumb. Merely that I did not… Read more »
Finally Erin, could you please explain granny porn to me? It’s fairly popular in Japan (see here: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1818203,00.html ) and is definitely a niche market in North America (along with BBW and all the rest of it). At its base granny porn is a class of porn that features old women. Along with Japan its has quite a base in Europe as well (in fact a lot of the granny porn that American watchers are into comes from those two places). But here the niche market appears to be a result of a fear of admitting that one is sexually… Read more »
The Wet One, I read the portion of the link you directed me to. I didn’t really have the time to read the whole thing. I don’t need to talk to your sister about these things any more then I need you to talk to my brother who has validated a lot of my views on this. Was that comment suppose to strengthen your argument because your female sister agrees with you? I also don’t think that 30 year old men are no better then 15 year old boys. I’m not sure what favors your really doing men here projecting… Read more »
Erin, I’ve been thinking this myself but you said it so concisely: “But whenever this topic comes up a lot of men suddenly turn into the very small segment of porn users that only looks at the most respectful stuff or the stuff of women their own age or whatever it is that men think makes them fit out of the stereotypical porn style stuff.” It sure seems that when this conversation is brought up, those who enter it are always the perfect minority who make some sort of Santa’s list of porn users: (1) Yes, they’re always legal (2)… Read more »
Or maybe its because they are the only ones speaking up?
The one’s that break those three things you mention (especially the first) aren’t exactly going to be rushing to chime in. Yeah I’m sure some of them are lying but I don’t its as bad as you and Erin think.
Thanks Cameron! That’s a good way to describe it, “The Santa’s list of porn..” where it’s all sweet, nice and everything spice.
Cameron, you’re welcome to come and peruse my collection. I know it fairly well. You’ll find one clearly unpleasant scene where the woman clearly does not enjoy what’s going on (I’m not too fond of that scene myself, but you knew that already right?) and there’s some stuff that illegal here (but legal in Europe, go figure). The illegal stuff might be 5 – 10 vids out of 4- 5 thousand. Oh and you’ll also find all kinds of parts of it offensive (but we knew that already), but not violent or abusive in an objective sense (i.e. my past… Read more »
Oh also on the topic of granny porn in Japan, isn’t Japan also know for it’s cartoon porn? I forget what it’s called. But the girls in it look like 13 year olds with super huge boobs. You want to talk about granny porn, then lets also talk about this kind of porn.
What you may be thinking of is hentai (and eechi). But if you wanna talk niches that stuff is a niche of the greater world of anime.
Yeah thats so unreasonable…..wanting to be desirable to your partner than a two-dimensional image.
Wet One, I think you Make some good points. I’ve read that NYT article before, and I even asked my boyfriend to read it because I thought it would help him understand why women act in ways that men often find so perplexing. I also think it is important for readers not to get sidetracked by the word “narcissism” which has negative connotations in the popular sense, but is basically neutral as a psychological term of art. Narcissism can be healthy or unhealthy. We all have narcissism. The point of the research is that women get turned on by the… Read more »
Also, I want to add that if women understood the male point of view better, maybe porn would be less threatening. A lot of guys have posted comments to the effect that being aroused by the image of hot young porn stars has absolutely nothing to do with how they feel sexually about their less-than-porn-star-perfect wives or girlfriends. But don’t you compare? Doesn’t your wife/girlfriend seem less desirable, less sexy or less appealing compared to what you see in porn? How can watching porn NOT have an impact on how you feel about her? This is something that is hard… Read more »
Yeah, but we compare when we’re in the gym, at the store, at the mall, at work, at school, etc. What’s the difference with porn? Especially when you KNOW IT’S FANTASY. Also, men will not always chase after the most “attractive woman available.” That doesn’t make sense and smart men know this (see the movie “A Beautiful Mind” for a fine example of this, or the song which gets down to the essence of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh9ZZgDqzAg ). A better wife is one who you think is beautiful (or is your idea of your teenage wet dream like my honey is… Read more »
For goodness sake, we all know porn is fantasy. Stop acting like that should be reason enough alone to shut women up about their feelings when it doesn’t even stop you from behing turned on by the fantasy. Further, Christie Brinkely was cheated on by her husband and their freaking nanny. Are you really blaming her for that? I love your atttitude toward women’s needs “oh well life isn’t fair”, While you get to walk along taking all the pleasure in the world you want from whatever woman. Funny that. Also funny how you preach about how women’s sexuality is… Read more »
FFS, Erin! So if men indulge in being turned on by women’s looks at all via pornography, they’re reducing women to appearance at all time in all situations? And that to be morally consistent, they must work to purge “objectifying” fantasies about “hot” women from their mental inventory? Well, Erin, thank you for once again proving just how extreme the agenda of so many anti-porn types really is. It is clear arguments about porn are never really just about porn, but about larger agendas around sexuality. And one doesn’t have to look far to find just how repressed and repressive… Read more »
Jill, No, I honestly don’t compare. I’ve never watched porn and thought “Man I wish my wife looked like that.” Mostly because not a lot of the women in porn are super-hot. If we’re being honest, I prefer “real” women in porn. I detest the huge fake boobs to the point I’ll sometimes turn it off if they’re just so ridiculous they don’t even move. My wife and I laugh at them when we watch together. So, if anything, I appreciate my wife MORE after watching porn because the actresses (and all women) pale in comparison to how I feel… Read more »
While I’m not married (meaning the porn star/wife comparison doesn’t apply) I am a guy that watches porn (meaning the porn star/real woman comparison does apply). I can safely tell you that in my experience while I do watch porn the majority of my sexual thoughts are about actual everyday women (As I said above I’m not married nor in a relationship so my responses here are from the angle of comparing women in porn to regular everyday women.) Jill: But don’t you compare? To a small extent yes. But again I say small extent no more than comparing this… Read more »
There have been studies done that say men are much more critical of their own partners after viewing porn. Both in performance and their bodies. And frankly, I tend to believe that. I think men are comparing. I think they just expect women to not care despite the comparisons are being made. And I think they think if they say porn is “fantasy” enough, that women will not have any more reaction to it despite the reactions it draws from men. Men want women to know they like them for more then their bodies but they don’t want to be… Read more »
Thanks for that Jill. As for the porn of which you speak, that’s not the stuff I watch (in fact I hate it). I’m a fan of Peter North and that’s about all I watch. Yes, I am a fan of guy. Check his stuff out. Not much of it is particularly “degrading” unless you find facials degrading (which I don’t see why it has to be, but whatever…). Max Hardcore is a douchebag and not what I find interesting at all. Older porn was much better than today’s garbage. However, the same arguments were advanced then as now. I… Read more »
Sorry Cameron, whilst I agree partly with what your are saying (self discipline, I had it at a younger age) I must say I live in reality now which has saw me masturbate for years because it feels good primarily but secondly because it is a solution to the fact that women seem unwilling to meet men in the middle of the bridge in regards to sexuality full stop. Far too many men hide this little secret away from their respective partners and whilst their partners probably know what they do at the computer or out in the shed I… Read more »
Clyde, I do think more women should make sex an active part of their lives instead of letting it go to the wayside. But I also understand that it’s a cycle. More men are using porn then ever before. Women know their men have this outlet, they figure “why bother” and refocus their energy on the parts of their life that are going to give them positive feedback and bury their head about the fact that he is looking at porn. I know alot of women that have just given up because they know they can’t compete with the million… Read more »
Erin,
Beautifully said. I agree completely.
~Cameron
Completely wrong here Erin. The problem is women look at occasional porn viewing as competition. It’s not. For most guys who aren’t porn addicts, it’s just something we do for a quick fix. Usually when sex isn’t an option for one reason or another. It has absolutely no bearing on how we feel for our wives/girlfriends. Yet if a woman knows we watched porn, she’ll curl up into a ball, retreat and say “Well I’m not even going to bother.” And as guys we’re wondering what the hell you’re talking about, because in our minds one has absolutely nothing to… Read more »
Or perhaps you’re not considering why the woman feels upset in the first place. You just dismiss her feelings as being “stupid,” but her feelings are legitimate. Human beings feel for a reason, and whatever we’re feeling at that present moment is never stupid, no matter how dramatized those feelings may be. If she’s feeling hurt by your porn use (not “you” specifically), and even after consoling her she still feels hurt, maybe it’s something you need to change because you’re not the one who is hurt–she is.
I didn’t get the sense that DaddyFiles was saying anyone’s feelings were “stupid” exactly, just that maybe a man’s partner has some experience that she needs to “reframe,” as the psychologists say today. It’s not a binary choice between a) doing nothing that might ever upset her or b) totally ignoring her feelings and dismissing them as stupid. There are other options, like recognizing her feelings, listening to them, and suggesting some sort of compromise. Leaving the word “stupid” out of it, I think we can agree that there can be interpretations of events (“he loves his laptop more than… Read more »
DaddyFiles, there is that word again, “occasional”. What even is “occasional” porn use? Because I heard it used for everything from once a year, to once a month, to once a week and I’ve even heard it used in reference looking at porn 3-4 times a week. I find that men often try to downplay their porn use or use words like “occasional” to minimize the topic. Let me ask you this. Do you think men are looking at more porn then 20 years ago, or less? Because I have to tell you, I think men are looking at more.… Read more »
How many women in porn have the bodies your wife has after having kids?
My friend just yesterday told me about the day she came home after giving birth to her son.-She found a porn disc in the dvd player…and was devastated.
Daddy Files- You seem to feel licensed to speak for all men. Would you please keep your attitudes and opinions on yourself please? You do not know, or seem to be concerned with, what other men (and women) may have been through around this porn issue. You also seem to believe that as long as you deny that you have an addiction that your denial acts as a magic charm to make it so. That’s magical thinking (and a sign of addiction). You also have an auto-response saying that your wife knows about your use and would therefore seemingly support… Read more »
Kenny: Wow, you’re wrong on so many fronts it’s kind of hysterical. Who said I was speaking for all men? I sure didn’t. I presented a hypothetical scenario, but it’s also one that I’ve seen first-hand in other people’s relationships. Second, it was pretty clear I wasn’t speaking about all men since I explicitly wrote I wasn’t talking about those who are addicted to porn. Third, I never wrote anything about “nightly porn use.” Now you’re making things up. Fourth, you imply throughout the article that I’m a porn addict. Now who’s being judgmental? You’ve never met me, yet you’re… Read more »
Daddy Files- Your persona on these threads is fascinating, like the depictions of characters in textbooks. And by textbooks here I refer to those written by Dr. Patrick Carnes, notably the godfather of sex-addiction therapy, who has stated the more common tools which addicts use in their denial of addiction are minimization, rationalization and justification. Your defensiveness and aggression are addiction signals as well, which is what I mentioned in my post that riled you. I have never said that you are an addict, just that you are showing the same signals that therapists take note of. Your own diagnosis… Read more »
Hi Clyde, I agree with Erin, I think couples can get into a downward spiral where the woman feels so grossed out and insecure about her partner’s porn use that she loses interest in sex. I feel excited about the idea that my partner is excited by me. If he’s off looking at porn, my interest in him evaporates completely. I feel like he’s not really aroused by me or my body, he’s aroused by some fantasy women who I absolutely can’t compete with, and it starts to feel like he’s just using my body as a masturbation tool. (if… Read more »
That’s how it is for me too. When I know my partner has been looking at porn, I am not as motivated in having sex with him. I feel a gap between us. I don’t feel like I can be in a safe and vulnerable place with him. The truth is that real women CAN’T compete. That’s really the truth that no one wants to say. We can’t be blondes, brunettes, redheaded lesbians with perfect big breasts and tiny little waists and no thoughts in our head except how to beg for another load on our face. And those images… Read more »
I guess the question is, Erin, why men, or anybody really, should feel the need to repress or retool their sexual desires based on the insecurities of women like you. I think your long rants on the subject could be boiled down to one statement: “I’m cold, everyone put on a sweater!”
IamCuriousBlue, thank you for showcasing the kind of shaming that some men engage in when it comes to some women’s feelings on porn. You prefectly projected what happens sometimes when porn becomes a discussion. How long have you been watching porn Iamcuriousblue? Since your young teens? Most men seem to discover it around then. Why don’t you ask yourself what possible ways your sexuality could have been retooled at that tender age with images porn projects. Unlike you, I think male sexuality is so much more exciting and wonderful then what porn tells us male sexuality is. And if men… Read more »
Erin, you can bitch and whine about being shamed all you like, and there’s a simple reason I could care less. Because you yourself engage in some very shitty shaming tactics toward men and male sexuality, and really, anybody who disagrees with you, and are equally quick to play the victim whenever somebody calls you on it. This combination of dishing out scorn on others while at the same time being absolutely unable to take criticism speaks to very low character in my book. I suggest you work on it. If you’re going to heap criticism on others, basic reciprocity… Read more »
Sorry, just make it clear, yes there is a biological desire for image and stimulation. I’m not saying we shouldn’t or aren’t naturally turned on by images and that we should ban porn or anything, but we do need to face up and discuss the real harm porn causes and stop defending it by using the same old cliched arguments. Its also very nice to see liberals finally standing up to this industry and not just going a long with the tripe that pro porn propganda feeds us. We’ve sold prostitution as liberal, it is not, it keeps women unequal,… Read more »
Sara, Yes porn usage can be an addition, like anything else, such as facebook, world-of-warcraft, smoking, eating, and even exercising. When something interferes with your ability to conduct the rest of your life, then its a problem that needs to be addressed. I hope your former partner received the proper treatment. Just don’t jump to the faulty conclusion that his problem with porn (which I assume amounted to more than a few minutes at the end of the day while masturbating) means that all viewers of porn are addicts. They aren’t. One of the points that Cameron directly and correctly… Read more »
DGT: In your response to Sara you said, “Your long argument against porn comes off as an argument against masturbation….” No it does not. At all. You are seeing a place to fight where there isn’t one. I think you’ve got a fight to fight and you’re looking to fight it here even though we all agree with you. Masturbation is great, safe, healthy, etc. We all agree with you and if we didn’t then we mind as well live with some crazy religious cult. Find their forums and go fight them there. I’m all about you fighting your fight,… Read more »
Thank you for this article, it is very good. Any negative responses just highlight what a raw nerve you hit. People who use it as a ‘treat’ at the end of the day are usually those who have developed an addiction. I challenge any male who consumes porn regularly to quit for a few weeks and then see, tell me they’re not a addict, that they found it easy. I believe porn addiction is a HUGE issue and effects a large proportion of men and an ever increasing amount of women (I am a former user and a ex partner… Read more »
Sara, thanks for sharing your own experience with porn! I agree with everything you’ve said.
We feed and encourage boys to use porn from a young age and we always use the excuse of it being for a biological need.
Its not simply encouraged. Its expected damn near required of boys/men to watch porn. To the point where a guy that doesn’t watch porn has his manhood questioned. And don’t even get me started on actual sex…
Cameron-
Writing your article was courageous, like floating a sushi-buffet through shark-infested waters, if the responses are any indicator.
Thank you for the thought provoking article. What we intake into our lives as experience is indeed as important as a good breakfast. I equate porn to fast food, and we don’t need science to know where consumption of that leads.
Again we get sidetracked by the quick fix. How much of this use of porn, vibrators or anything else is tied into our desire or requirement for the immediate ? How much of it is nothing more than society and the media dictating to me what is right, useful or not, or has value. If I am a wimp for evaluating my own sense of values, morals ethics and where I draw line in the sand then I’ll gladly take that label and wear it like a badge. The truth may be, that the same symptom is found everywhere. Has… Read more »
So you’re saying that a tough guy uses his imagination to get off? I suppose. What about if you got off to pictures of dogs? Does that make you tougher? What particular pictures do not make you a wimp if you get off to them? Why not just use the bra section in the Sears catalogue (yeah I’m old, get over it) like I did when I was 4 years old? Worked for me then and fundamentally no different than Playboy or much other pornography (not all of course, but much of it). All it has was prices listed. Was… Read more »
The Wet One, What you suggest isn’t wimpy at all. What’s “wimpy” is having the Sears magazine stashed in the bathroom so you can get to it after the wife is sleeping. We’ve used images since the beginning of time to heighten sexual pleasure, but it’s not the only way. And when we’ve made a commitment to a partner in life, I don’t see what’s so horrible with fully committing our minds as well as our bodies to that person. My argument is that technology and our current go-go-go lifestyles are pushing us in the wrong direction – towards speed… Read more »
“I don’t see what’s so horrible with fully committing our minds as well as our bodies to that person.”
Since you have already pointed out that porn is primarily used for masturbation, are you suggesting that individuals should give up masturbation when in a committed relationship, or just the porn they view while doing so?
DGT:
I have no idea why you think it worth asking me if people should give up masturbation when they are in a committed relationship. I can’t tell if you are serious or joking. I’m a rational, agnostic liberal yet for whatever reason you are approaching me as though I’m a Westboro Baptist fundamentalist….
~Cameron
I kinda agree with you Cameron. That’s why I make my position on porn known at the start of my relationships now (a woman’s got a right to choose right?). I tell her I could lie and say I’ll never use porn and I’ll get rid of my stash, but I’d rather be honest and lay it out. I won’t hide it from you and I’ll limit the use as much as I can, but I will not refuse to use it for you or anyone else. Am I a “wimp” now? As for that full commitment business, um… My… Read more »
“men use porn to do the deed as quickly as possible, so they can then do other shit.” ” Some estimates say they log on to porn sites for 30 seconds, choose a video, watch for 60 seconds, get off, then log off.” Sounds amazingly like what women use vibrators for. Here’s the female version of essentially the same thing. Yet, they are praised not criticized as wimps for doing essentially the same thing. “women use vibrators to do the deed as quickly as possible, so they can then do other shit. Some estimates say they turn on the vibrator… Read more »
Eric M,
I agree, but I think there are differences too. You don’t address whether or not porn is also used by the women. If so, you are right on – it’s the same thing. If not, it’s similar (the use of technology to speed it up) but it’s not nearly as “wimpy” (to throw the word around that is ruffling feathers here) as having spouse and kids in bed and logging on…
~Cameron
Cameron, women do use porn (albeit less often than men, but they are almost never criticized for it). But they also use parallel forms of outside (other than their mate) sexual stimuli to get them to the same place that porn often takes men, but they get to have virtual lover with them to get them there in a short time. Women are more likely than men to use books, magazines, and movies to create images that have the same effect. The biggest difference is that there is a virtual third person involved in touching them to bring them to… Read more »
Ugh, this article is full of contradictions and general nonsense: – Porn is used as a masturbation shortcut…but why exactly does masturbation need to be a drawn out activity? Most men use it for release, not foreplay. – Porn takes away from romance and imagination…but if it’s used for masturbation then why are either of those things necessary when you’re alone? (Romancing yourself much, Cameron?) – Porn makes sex with your partner boring. You mention watching the NBA, Cameron. Does watching it that make you less likely to play basketball with your friends because their play is SO boring in… Read more »
DGT: (1) You’re right. There’s no need to drag it out… (2) Masturbation takes place when you’re alone, but you’re failing to see that what we do when we’re alone may impact us when we’re not. I read books alone too and that knowledge travels with me. (3) Porn makes sex with your partner boring? It may, not always. I never made that claim as an absolute assertion. I said: “can make.” Again, you’re only seeing things as black and white here. And your NBA comment isn’t worth responding to… (4) Right, choose whatever definition of “education” you want. Needn’t… Read more »
#1 – Yes! Agreement! #2 – “…what we do when we’re alone may impact us when we’re not.” That is a possibility in every aspect of our lives in everything we do. So? That statement and your analogy about books does nothing to support the suggestion that porn & masturbation effects our intimate time with others, let alone in a negative manner. In fact, since books provide knowledge and enhance intellectual interactions with others, your analogy could suggest that porn & masturbation would have a similarly positive effect on intimate interactions with others. #3 – “I never made that claim… Read more »
DGT: I teach writing, but I also write to teach. Regarding the former, again, I will send you a resume if it helps you take me more seriously. Regarding the latter: I smiled when you said, “That is a possibility in every aspect of our lives in everything we do,” because it seemed as though you simply couldn’t grasp that concept due to (1) Your inability (or maybe unwillingness?) to follow my analogy rather than create your own by using absurd analogic questions you already knew the answer to: – “Does watching it that make you less likely to play… Read more »
I have a question: what about Erotica/ “girl porn”, with sweeping storylines and romantic overtones? SHould more men be watching that type of pornography?
On the flipside, should fewer women be watching it? Are women learning the wrong things as well? Setting ourselves up for failure in that sex is not nearly as romantic most of the time?
After reading several recent articles on the GMP site regrding pornography, What I’d like know is where the lines should be drawn….and even better, who should be drawing them? 😉