Let your online dating profile be a window into who you really are.
Most of us eventually reach an age where the nights of picking up women at bars becomes nothing more than a nostalgic memory, and the routine of work life takes over, preventing new women from entering our social orbit. Those of us who aren’t lucky enough to have friends who can set us up are sheer out of luck.
These lack of options, in addition to the increasingly busy nature of modern society, all lead to millions of men signing up for online dating.
On the surface it all seems too good to be true. Thousands of beautiful women to choose from, proclaiming they want nothing more than a nice guy who can make them laugh.
This is going to be a cakewalk, you think. Loneliness will be a distant friend of the past.
Then something awful happens. Loneliness steps aside as a new best friend named rejection steps in. Countless emails are not only rejected, but rejected in silence, rendering us non-existent in the eyes of these women.
With every day that passes by, feelings of inadequacy, failure, and desperation grow stronger. The attempt to meet women online has destroyed just about all the self-esteem that was left prior to signing up. Finally, you desire more than anything to give up, but stick with it because you feel as if you have no other options.
Does this story sound familiar to you?
While the negative experience one may have varies, this is the story of countless men who are signed up for online dating at this very moment. Men are learning the hard way that meeting women online is actually harder than meeting women in real life. Not knowing how to push past the competition online makes the experience a daily nightmare. For years I have been coming up with techniques and methods to solve this dilemma and help men find success with meeting women online.
Recently I decided to add a fresh perspective to my theories by talking with highly respected dating coach and columnist, Neely Steinberg. Here is an excerpt from our conversation:
Neely Steinberg: Let me first say that I think there are a ton of women, especially as they reach their early thirties, who really do want a nice guy who can make them laugh. Being nice doesn’t mean a man is a pushover or doesn’t have a backbone and his own opinions; it means treating women with respect and consistent kindness. The women who are in their thirties and forties and still looking for flash over substance or to be treated unkindly are not likely to make good partners. Why would a man want to be with this kind of woman, anyway?
So yes, online dating provides options. I met my boyfriend on Match; as you can guess, I’m a huge proponent. The one thing I would say about online dating and something I constantly tell my clients is to give it a gosh darn chance. Women and men have been pursuing traditional dating avenues (bars, set-ups, and the like) for years upon years and haven’t ruled out those opportunities. But all of a sudden online dating is a magical panacea that can find them the perfect mate within 6-9 months? Please. I was on and off Match for years before finally finding love. I know tons of people who have had the same experience. Don’t turn to online dating to be your everything and don’t expect it to work miracles. Be patient with it, be resilient.
Now that I’ve convinced our readers to stick with online dating, what would you say, Joshua, are some tricks of the trade to write a better, more alluring profile that gets the attention of women? I’m interested to hear the male perspective to see if it lines up with how women see things?
Joshua Pompey: Neely, I’m so glad you brought up the notion of writing a profile before delving into the other online dating staples. This is because most men treat the written portion of their profiles as a complete afterthought, spending the majority of their efforts writing emails and creating photo galleries. In fact, most men write a quick profile with minimal effort when signing up, and completely forget it exists after that.
This is a big mistake. The written portion of a male profile is arguably the biggest determinant of whether or not he will succeed. This is because women are less visual then men. While men are almost exclusively concerned with a woman’s pictures, and will work with everything else after that, women are wired differently. Yes we have to look presentable, but women feel attraction towards men mainly based on our internal characteristics, and the profile is where we can paint the best picture of who we truly are on the inside.
While I could go on for pages with what constitutes a great profile, here are a few basic suggestions.
For starters, don’t say it, show it. What I mean is, dating sites are filled with endless amounts of clichés. “I like to make people laugh.” “I love to go out, but also like to spend nights in watching movies and ordering in food.” Browse fifty profiles right now and you will likely find fifty profiles that have an almost identical version of the above quotes. And believe me, I could go on with dozens more common clichés.
These statements are not only boring, but they turn us into just another faceless drone, completely indistinguishable from all the other men online. Instead of saying we like to make people laugh, make women actually laugh. I can’t even tell you how many women have contacted me first, telling me I have the funniest profile they’ve ever read. I don’t talk the talk. I walk the walk by making them laugh so hard it hurts. I’m just an average looking guy, but this alone enables me to crush most of my competition.
Having a humorous profile will not only create attraction, as women are extremely attracted to men that can make them laugh, but it will exponentially increases the odds of receiving a first date. The reason behind this is simple. If woman think we are funny, they will give us a shot, assuming in a worst-case scenario, “We may not be a match, but at least I won’t be bored!”
I could go on for hours, Neely, on crafting the perfect profile; it’s something I am extremely passionate about. But let’s hear some of your thoughts. In addition, what are your thoughts on a profile’s ability to overshadow a man’s looks?
Neely Steinberg: I think you have some great suggestions, Joshua.
If your profile can make a woman laugh and put her in a good mood (avoid too much self-deprecating humor), you’re off to a great start. A man should definitely spend time carefully crafting his profile; remember: It’s your way of marketing yourself so don’t half-ass it. Don’t be boring or commonplace. Get creative and have fun with it. Think a little outside the box to grab a woman’s attention. Ask yourself: Why would a woman, based on what I’ve written, choose to spend time communicating with me out of the sea of other guys on this site or others? If you’re not a Brad Pitt in the looks department, it helps to let your other qualities shine through in a fun, entertaining way. Read other men’s profiles and emulate the ones that (in a good way) stand out from the pack. Even if you think of yourself as pretty boring (you’re not, by the way!), there are ways to present yourself as unique, fun, and worth getting to know. Also, experiment: If you don’t seem to be getting many bites or responses from women, maybe it’s time to reexamine what you’ve written and shake things up.
I’d agree that women on average are probably more likely to give a man a chance if they are turned on by his profile’s words despite only being, say, moderately attracted to his photos. However, I do think it’s important for a guy to present quality photos. Forget the pictures of beautiful vistas and faraway, indistinct shots of you with your buddies. Women as much as men want to have a fairly decent picture of who (in terms of appearance) they are going to be sitting across from on a date; after all, they are taking a chance to spend time with a total stranger.
I would say make sure to have a few close-ups (you should be smiling in all of them) and maybe one full body shot. A good full body photo might be some sort of action shot of an activity you’re passionate about—whether it’s playing tennis or a musical instrument. You can then talk further about that passion in your profile. I think most women appreciate a man who has a passion for or has achieved mastery in a hobby.
Joshua Pompey: I agree with a lot of your points. Although I would like to add, I think showing various pictures that are far away can work wonders for your profile if they involve participating in interesting activities or help to provide a deeper window into who you truly are as a person. But as you say, Neely, women do want a sense of what the man truly looks like, so I would encourage to only do this if you also have a lot of pictures showing close ups.
Finally, I’d like to end this conversation by pointing out that the profile is the final gate between you, and the women who are on the fence about responding. As Neely says, if your words turn a woman on, they can convince women to give you a chance, even if they were only moderately attracted to your pictures. What a lot of men don’t realize is, most women don’t completely decide if they are going to write you back until they read your profile. Your words can easily push them in either direction, so make sure you push them in the correct one.
Read more: All the Single Men: Advice on Attending Weddings This Season
Image credit: Ricky Flores/Flickr
About Joshua Pompey and Neely Steinberg
But you have to be careful on these sites, as they often employ people to run fake accounts to dupe people in to subscribing, as this channel 4 news piece shows:
http://www.channel4.com/news/fools-for-love-how-one-internet-dating-firm-dupes-clients
I wonder if the Nigerian 419 approach has something going for it. Nigerian 419 scammers send barely coherent e-mails, littered with spelling and grammar errors. While some wonder why they would take such an approach, which would alert most people immediately to the fact that the e-mails were a scam, the Nigerians are onto something. Each response requires time and effort to string along to the point where they get money out of them. However, only the most gullible would actually give up money. By writing their e-mails in such an amateur manner, Nigerian 419 scammers pre-screen their respondents for high levels of gullibility.
Likewise, if you have a very clear idea of what you are looking for in a partner, or are a person of extremely particular interests and tastes, it can be worthwhile to write a profile that aims only to interest that narrow window of people who would share your interests and be of interest to you. Most people seek to be generically pleasing, but there is much to be gained from aiming to be as distinct and ungeneric as possible, to seek to appeal extremely strongly to a small section of your visitors, while being of little direct interest to the majority. Back in the days when I used online dating websites, thinking of ways politely to disinterest those people with whom I had little in common was always a continual concerns. The quality of respondents was always much higher when I presented myself in a manner that emphasized highly niche, rather than generic appeal. The number of respondents with limited connection was diminished and those who did respond generally felt that we had something very important in common, because I had aimed to stick out from the generic norm as much as possible. The decreased quantity had the benefit of giving me more time to devote to each contact and increased the quality of those contacts. Besides, ultimately you only need to end up with one person.
I won’t fall for that Nigerian scam a third time. I’ve decided to answer the e-mail from that guy from Ghana. He seems legit.
Seriously, though, I don’t know of any women who prefer lots of spelling and grammar mistakes, maybe some who wouldn’t care, but I know many women who would rule you out because of them. There is no downside to using good spelling and appropriate punctuation. Put in a little effort, like you’re writing something important. Making your writing a pleasure to read will make a huge difference to many women.
The spelling and grammar of Nigerian 419 scams was merely an illustration of something purposefully designed to discourage all but the most promising respondents. In writing to women on dating websites, a fitting analogy could be the use of advanced vocabulary, meticulous and complex grammatical forms, highly stylized prose, with numerous subtle literary allusions. I used to write my dating profiles in such a manner, trying to ensure – with considerable success – that only the most literate women would respond.
I tried that once, hoping only the most literate men would respond.
It didn’t do a damn thing!
This will sound misandrist, but I’m not sure that men care as much about finding a mate with good writing skills as women do. I don’t know if putting a good sentence together makes as big a difference to attracting men as women.
And maybe I’m just hanging out with a particularly geeky group of people and they are not representative at all.
It’s no guarantee of anything, anyway. I’m just thinking in terms of “best practice,” or how to avoid turning people off unnecessarily. Like how it’s generally not a dealbreaker for a man to show up for a date slightly overdressed, but it could be a bad move to show up underdressed. Putting on a nice shirt may not help you, but it probably wouldn’t hurt. Err on the side of good spelling and grammar – probably no great effect, but it couldn’t hurt.
Yeah, the guy from Ghana. Can you give me his email address I want to know how to wire $100,000 into his account.
According to the people running OKCupid men who smile get fewer messages than those who don’t:
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/page/11/
It also shows that being shirtless is a very good strategy for men (50% increase in message response rate). But that might be because only the more attractive men are confident enough in their body to post shirtless pics.
Are all the response to shirtless men positive, however? I wouldn’t count “have that mole looked at” or “gross, a third nipple!” as positive responses….
I’ve found I do better when I don’t actually go into much detail about my passions or achievements because women think I’m lying. “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is” and they assume that some of my many traits are bullshit. Also, I think you all are WAAAAY underestimating how important being incredibly attractive in your profile picture is. I have read countless bits of advice and admissions from women that say how they don’t even read most of the messages they get; they look at the picture and delete the message unless they like the picture.
As I mentioned in my post above, getting fewer messages can have huge advantages to it, provided that it means that you are still getting messages from the people who are most genuinely interested in you. Against many of the metrics that people care most about, successful use of a dating website is NOT measured in how many messages you receive (such ‘successful’ people often leave because they have to waste too much time trying to weed out their respondents). Rather, it should be measured in how effectively you narrow your pool of respondents to those with you can share the most meaningful connection.
Also, I try not to think about ‘women’ when writing such a profile. I am NOT trying to appeal to the other sex in general, just to very particular members of it. It doesn’t bother me if I immediately turn off 95% of women, provided that I succeed in getting the attention of those I am interested in. Being extremely selective in the people that you contact and very distinct and niche in the way that you present yourself produces the best results on this front.
I have a very thought out and detailed profile and I have received zero messages in total. Not a single woman has sent me a message in well over a year of being on a dating site. I honestly don’t even believe that women send messages out in the first place.
You’re not alone dude. I think that is the case for almost all of us guys on dating sites. I have been off and on various dating sites for like 6 years now (sad, I know), and I’ve probably gotten maybe 10 or so emails from women that were uninitiated.
It’s one of the more frustrating things about dating. For as much as women have progressed, and as much railing that many do about the mysoginistic structure of our society, they still can’t bring themselves to send an email. Amazing.
My sister-in-law has tried jDate and sampled some of the loonies on there…one guy put a profile pic that was 2 decades old and 100 lbs. lighter! After each encounter, he would tell her he would go over each detail with his psychiatrist! We had to intervene and tell her to cut him off or else we were afraid she was going to wind up in a body bag!
That said, we know of a few marriages and long term relationships from jDate….gotta be picky!
Online dating is for women only. Women can post a pic and a one line bio and get 100s of responses. If a man does the same he will get nothing. But if he posts too much then it may seem like he is desperate or bragging. It’s so much easier ( and more fun) to just meet someone at the grocery store or on the dance floor.
Hey everyone,
Joshua Pompey here. I have been reading some of the above comments and it is disheartening to see all the pessimism, although I fully understand it.
The truth is, the reason I got into helping people with online dating is because when I started online dating, no matter how hard I tried, women did not respond to my emails. I too was convinced that online dating was just full of shallow women and become an angry, bitter person. Very depressed as well.
Eventually I figured things out and had no intention of ever writing books on the subject. But eventually I did when realized there were millions of guys just like me out there, and it is sad to see. I know what its like to be lonely, even when my dating life is busy, as I have been prone to depression throughout my life. Nothing is worse then feelings of hopelessness when it comes to not finding a partner.
I won’t bore everyone with my long story, but if I had to estimate, I receive responses more than 50% of the time with women who are above average in looks. I have emails that come my way from women who initiate first every day as I sit and choose who I want to talk to. Granted, I live in NY, so there are much more women here, however, when I started out and was depressed over online dating, I literally received just about zero responses for months. I’d only receive a reply when messaging extremely unattractive women out of frustration, and the only women who initiated were frightening.
My point is, I am exactly the same person now as I was back when nobody would give me the time of day. My nose is still too big for my face. My ears still stick out like dumbo. And I am very long in the face. Taking my profile pictures to this day is hard work because it is very difficult to get shots that look decent since I am very un-photo genic. My profile picture for this site must have took 100 shots before using this one!
But I learned to succeed first and foremost by learning to create a profile that taps into attraction and has women laughing the whole way, all while implying various personality characteristics that make women want to get to know me better. Much of this is basic psychology, learning how to write effectively, and understanding human nature. I learned how to write emails that really spark an incredibly high level of interest. I learned how to put up the right kind of pictures that create attraction in ways that don’t have to do with my looks. And most importantly, I learned how to date with confidence, while being engaging and interesting. I learn how to do all of these things while staying true to myself and not using sleezy tactics.
From where I have been, to where I am now, helping men all over the world, If this is not proof that every detail you put in your profile, emails, and pictures does matter, than I don’t know what is. Because nothing at all has fundamentally changed in my looks, or who I am since from the time I was struggling with online dating to now.
I’m still the same guy, but with a phenomenal endless dating life. And as much skepticism as I see, I’ve helped men all over the world achieve the same at an incredibly high success rate. Sometimes its human nature to write a medium off and assume that “we are doing the best we can and can’t do any better.” But in many cases, is not that we aren’t doing our best, we just need a little help.
I urge anyone who has doubts to not give up, and feel free to contact me on my website with any personal questions you may have. I would love to help.
I too am in New York, and I have had what amounts to very little success. I don’t believe you for a minute that you get a 50% response rate. I’m extremely articulate and humorous, and I get a response rate somewhere in the neighborhood of 5%.
Josh, thanks for the reply.
Something that I never see these dating articles talk about are racial demographics. I think this is another factor that experts don’t think or really talk about. For exmple, the women from my area that are on dating websites are predominatly white. I’d say about 90%. Of that percentage I would say about 80% are specifically looking for a white male. So basically if you’re non-white your selection is VERY small. Then factor in if you are looking for a specfic age group it makes it even smaller. I don’t know if this is different in larger cites. I’m living in a fairly small city.
Anyway, my point is, I think online dating is obviously easier for women but I think it’s also easier if you’re a white male. So it seems like you have even an additional roadblock when it comes to online dating if you’re a non-white male.
John,
I sympathize with your situation. My recommendation would be to try to find a niche site, but in your case, your area may not have a large colored population, nor are you necessarily looking for someone of color.
My best advice would be to narrow your search results, or possibly attempt more of a an alternative to online dating. It is a tough obstacle though that I do sympathize with, as unfortunately, not everyone is willing to interracially date.
I think that demographic factors in one’s local community will affect a person’s dating success both online and off a lot more than is generally acknowledged. Population density and gender ratio have a huge influence, and if those factors are skewing against you, a perfect profile, perfect photos, perfect messages aren’t going to help much. The internet really can’t bridge geographic distance.
Collin,
If you would like me to take a picture of my inbox, both sent and received I can do so for you or anyone else. I will just have to block out the faces a bit to protect identities.
I honestly don’t say this to brag, or to form arguments. It truly is my goal to help as many people as possible because of my past so I want to show everyone that true happiness is possible.
Also keep in mind that I have no doubt you are humorous and articulate. But this is only one of many aspects of online dating. The way the profile is written, the way the photo gallery is constructed, length of emails, delivery, choice of words, implied personality traits, attraction builders (I could go on forever, which is why I’ve wrote over 750 pages on the subject) all combine to play a role. It is quite difficult to gage the effectiveness on how great ones emails, photo galleries, and profile writing is on our own, because let’s face it, if we didn’t think it was great, we wouldn’t have wrote everything this way.
Sure, why not. As I said, I’m very dubious of people that seem to suggest there are specific things you can do that ramp up attraction. Either you are attractive or you are not and there is very little you can actually do to change that. I can be super smart, super talented, and super amazing in every way but unless they find me attractive, they have absolutely no interest in even humoring me with a reply. It is, unfortunately, the way it works for both men and women. If you are attractive, you will have no problem getting dates and if you aren’t — my case — you don’t. I’m awesome enough to have regular correspondence with people in positions of immense power, but I’m not awesome enough to find a woman willing to date me. It’s both hysterical and depressing that I can chat with CEOs but can’t even find a woman willing to chat with me.
Collin,
There is a misconception that attraction is felt the same way for men and women. Men are visual and base almost everything on looks. Women are different. Hundreds of years of evolution has wired women to feel attraction towards men in many ways that have nothing to do with our looks. According to my research there are ten in total. We just have to learn the internal characteristics that most women respond to and figure out how to bring them to the surface while still being true to who we are. Within these ten triggers there are unlimited possibilities to bring them to the surface online.
The challenge is that online, our words and the types of pictures that we choose to reveal these signals are all we have. This is where it gets tricky. Writing profiles and emails becomes an art form, because despite the attractive qualities we may have in person, we have to bring them out in our writing or women will not feel an attraction.
Do good looks help? Yes. Does it make life easier? Yes. Will there be some women that only care about looks? Yes. Is this the majority? No.
The problem and misconception that online dating is shallow is that it is a shallow place if we don’t do everything else correctly and know how to build attraction in ways that have nothing to do with our looks. When we fail in other areas, women will have no choice but to judge us on our looks, and consequently, it becomes all about the looks.
I see many things you wrote in your response above that would work wonders.
For example: I might write in your profile:
“For work I (insert your business job). As someone who loves to lead, make big decisions, and interact with interesting people every day, what could possibly be better than rubbing elbows with CEO’s as I learn my way to the top? Well, aside from a date with me! Wink Wink.
This is rushed but notice all the attraction builders that are implied. You love to socialize, people love being around you and you love being around people (social approval), you are a leader (very attractive), you make decisions (alpha male), and you flirt a bit. And this is only one sentence of a very long profile.
Imagine the possibilities if every sentence paid this much attention to detail along with your profile pictures and emails. This is why we are so successful!
First of all, evolution does not happen in hundreds of years. Second, if looks were not supremely important to women, I would have no trouble at all with women. The very fact that displaying my amazing non-physical characteristics get me nowhere speaks volumes. Online dating is shallow. Because women gets lots of messages, they make snap judgments without reading the vast majority of the correspondence they receive. I recognize that you’re trying to sell a product, but the simple fact of the matter is that looks are the biggest factor in success in dating. Being attractive is something we cannot change outside of cosmetic surgery and no amount of profile writing that appeal to “triggers” is going to allow a demonstrably unattractive man be successful with dating. There’s no quick fix to being ugly. I am tall, fit, well dressed, brilliant, accomplished, ambitious, musically gifted, witty, and so many other things; they matter not one bit because I have an unattractive face. The only thing I really lack at the moment is immense wealth. Luckily, wealth is something I can control, and it is second only to attractiveness in terms of being able to date as a man. I can’t make myself prettier, but I can make myself wealthier.
As for your example, my profile IS mostly written with displaying my qualities in that way. The fact that it is like that is, for all intents and purposes, entirely irrelevant. Women don’t view my profile, and they certainly don’t send me messages.
Colin,
I was trying to help. You seem very angry and quick to dismiss and point out technicalities of messages that had to be written in a rush. But until the end of time I will declare that looks are not the only thing that creates strong levels of attraction in women, and throughout society I see countless men every day who are not good looking with beautiful women. I have personally worked and helped some of the “worst looking men” to find what they are looking for. I wish you the best of luck though. I hope you find what you are looking for you seem like you have a lot of great things going on for yourself and have some true potential. Best of luck sir.
I do resent people like you — people looking to profit off people like me — who attempt to part people from their hard earned money peddling snake oil. I find your preying on the desperate to be indefensible. If only we bought your books and services, where you open up a secret code to the desperate unattractive men, the secret code that will make women not care about the fact that they are unattractive and have them rolling in hot women. We’re just some magic tricks away from having women reply to our messages at a rate of 50% and getting messages from attractive women every single day, we just need to buy your book to learn the secret code!
The biggest shame is that the government doesn’t crack down shysters like yourself.
Collin,
Just to clear my name since I am being personally attacked.
I took a long time out of my day to respond and engage with the readers of this website.
I offer a full refund one hundred percent guarantee. There are no return fees. There are no shipping fees to return. Not satisfied, money back. There is no magic involved. No scam. Not satisfied, return.
It is indefensible when people profit off the lonely if that is their motive. It is not mine. It is also indefensible to attack products and services you have not read.
Good luck I will not be responding anymore.
You took time out of your day in an attempt to sucker people into buying your product; I hardly consider that altruistic. In much the same way that I don’t need to try the love potion to know it is a scam; I don’t need to read your book to know it’s as legit as the potions you used to be able to purchase on eBay.
Collin: ranting about these guys is just ridiculous. You’re wallowing in victimhood here. You continually moan about how you can’t get laid, and yet spit at people who tell you the simple truth: women do not primarily respond to looks. They respond to displays of high value. Game would teach you all this, and yet you refuse to learn it because you think it’s misogynist. Let me tell you this; I am not on the pickup scene. I am in a loving LTR, and Game practiced religiously every single day is what keeps it fresh, vibrant, and ever-loving. For both of us. It is about self-improvement, ultimately: successful seduction and relationships are an incidental benefit. If you can’t handle the likes of Roissy and Roosh (I understand, they can be pretty nasty at times, though effective), then talk to The Private Man (http://theprivateman.wordpress.com/) and Athol Kay at Married Man Sex Life.
Aside from the fact that I am a victim, that is not in any way the truth. Good looks is one of the primary “high value” traits. Another is wealth. As I’ve said, I’m working on the wealth part since I don’t have the good looks part. As for this schmoe and his “greater than 99% success rate” I do object to the snake oil, yes.
Ya know whats the funniest part about this joke Collin CME (great response by the way)?
Joshua actually recommends to a user above to meet someone offline because of the lack of opportunities for his specific demographic in the town he lives in. For a snake oil guy he sure is doing a lousy job by helping people by informing them that online dating may not be practical for them.
What an ignorant bitter person you are Collin. Its obviously clear that your issues with women are entirely attributed to who you are, not your looks. You clearly have issues.
Anyone who claims to have a greater than 99% success rate is a pathological liar, so we can start there. Of course, I wouldn’t expect much from you seeing as how you have demonstrated that you’re so mentally deficient it requires conscious thought for you to breathe.
I was the one he recommended that to. I’m glad someone else thought that was a bit “off”. I mean no offense to the guy, but if I were paying for that advice youcan sure as hell bet I would be asking for my money back.
Mark,
What I meant by that is, it doesn’t seem like Joshua is after peoples money. Instead of advising you to read his books he said maybe you should try other forms of meeting people if its not practical in your town. I was trying to show that Collin is ridiculous to say that he is all about money, when clearly he doesn’t seem to be based on his response towards you.
I dip my toes periodically in the online dating world. I frequently send messages to men on the sites (before they send me messages) asking about specific information in their profile, making conversation etc. Almost to a T the response I get back is “do you have a picture that shows more.” For what it’s worth my general picture shows a lot of my body just not necessarily a lot of skin or cleavage. It’s actually pretty rare that one will engage in conversation beyond that even if I ask them pointed questions.
Typical first emails I get from men are: “hi” (and that’s it) “do you have a picture that shows more” “do you want to go to the bar sometime (even though I explicitly state I’m not into that in my profile)” “want to hook up sometime (another thing I explicitly state I’m not looking for in my profile)”. I’m under the impression that a lot men use a scatter shot approach to women on those sites. Just sending the same message to everyone new one that comes a long and not even reading profiles. I read profiles of men but find a lot of them are short and not really detailing what they are actually looking for. I see A LOT of “I like to hunt, fish, ride my ATV, and work a lot.” Doesn’t tell me boo about what you want in a woman (big, little, blond, great legs…) or what you want in a relationship (hook up vs. relationship). I don’t even try to talk to guys where I know I don’t meet their personal aesthetic that they state on their profile and I find that very helpful honestly. So I guess tell something about what you want out of a partner and relationship and be honest. Be real and be honest.
I’ve encountered quite a few profiles of women that literally have one sentence about themselves and everything else is blank. I’m assuming the thought is “if I just show my face the guys will come flocking”, which sadly may be the case.
I learned over time that if a woman has nothing to say in her profile, she most likely has nothing to say in real life and she is one to avoid. So I totally get why guys need to put more effort into actually writing something coherent and interesting.
“I’m under the impression that a lot men use a scatter shot approach to women on those sites. Just sending the same message to everyone new one that comes a long and not even reading profiles.”
Of course. If you can spend 10 minutes reading each profile and writing a personal message 20 times without even getting a single response why would you bother? How much time do think is reasonable to expect men to put into
“I see A LOT of “I like to hunt, fish, ride my ATV, and work a lot.” Doesn’t tell me boo about what you want in a woman (big, little, blond, great legs…) or what you want in a relationship (hook up vs. relationship).”
This I think is a people problem. The second most common thing on women’s profiles when I tried internet dating was “I like my friends.”. People are afraid to put themselves out there so they write bland profiles. (The most common thing was stating that they were only interested in older men, which 90% of the profiles said).
I don’t think much time at all needs to be put into it. I can quickly read a profile which has a lot of information in it (disregarding those that have hardly anything in them) and write a quick and personalized note to the men (and the rare bi/lesbian woman) to start a conversation. I don’t write a thesis. But I’m also not on those sites looking for a hook up which is probably why I put a little more effort into it. I’m quite sure the scatter shot approach does yield more replies. I know replies in general are low for me on those sites even if I send out a bunch of notes. I think the replies issue goes both ways for men and women but probably more for men.
I’d probably send messages to less men if they did go past the one liner in their profiles because I know it’s waste of time for them to bother with my notes if I’m not what they’re looking for. If I knew what they were looking for I wouldn’t waste their time in the first place.
Also I find it mildly annoying when there are things clearly stated on my profile (my athesism for example) and I get a scatter shot approach from someone who states in their profile that their woman must go to church with them for example. I just personally feel someone with such feelings would put a hair more effort into reviewing those aspects of the profile and send out their messages in a more appropriate direction. Personally I don’t even respond when there is huge lifestyle clashes such as that.
Other than bi/lesbian women I don’t spend a lot of time perusing the ladies on dating sites honestly. So I don’t know the content of their emails. I can say, however, I have only ever emailed one woman on these sites one time because I find those profiles tend to be a little sketchy to me (more there to titillate men versus look for a legit woman/woman hook up).
So I don’t know just from a perspective of successful meetings from dating sites I would suggest either gender get down and fill that space on their profile with meaningful information. What’s being looked for and who you are. If you are someone who has non-negotiable standards then put that there. Yeah it may decrease the over all number of responses to the ad but for those people that actually read the ads it produces more viable options. I’ve had some good viable dates over the years because it was all on table on the front end.
I met my fiance on a dating site. When I first joined, I was overwhelmed with responses. so many I didn’t have time to read them all. The truth is, though, that once I got through all the ones that told me nothing other than “hi” or which clearly mentioned things that went against what I had written in my profile, it wasn’t that many messages.
I know it sucks that there are so many more men than women on these sites, but the fact that so many men don’t put a little effort in means that if you do put effort, it could really put you ahead. because women get so many messages, we find ways of filtering through a lot of them fast. I immediately ignored any messages from anyone who didn’t have a clear photo, ignored things stated in my profile, or wrote about sex. that left only about 10% for me to consider.
My fiance’s profile didn’t have an essay on it, but it showed a sense of humor, mentioned some of his top interests, and some of his preferences in women. He also showed both a good face shot and a waist up shot, so I had an idea what I would see in person. I went on a lot of dates before him, and though some of those men were better looking, once I met him I lost interest in them. personality wise, we really worked well together. And I didn’t even mind when he confessed that his first letter to me was mostly cut and paste, with one sentence related to my profile. because he’d gotten so little response from his original tries at writing proper messages to individual women. but even then, he knew well enough to at least send a letter that told me more about himself, made him stand out from the crowd, showed that he had at least glanced at more than my picture, and which asked questions about me that showed interest in more than just sex.
so you don’t have to write a long letter, but you do need to stand out somehow. and yes, looks matter to most human beings, but you don’t have to be a model. women who don’t look like models don’t expect to date models either, but everybody wants to know what to expect. it’s ok to put the most flattering pic you have of yourself. it’s ok to photoshop your pimples out. show yourself at your best, as long as you’re not being dishonest. i forgave my man for putting up a photo with less grey hair in it than I discovered he had when we met, because our first date went so well. if he’d put one that was 15 years out of date, that would be another story. or a blurry pic. and then we would never have met because I wouldn’t have bothered wasting my time on someone who has something to hide. I think a lot of women give up on dating sites because it takes so long to wade through all the badly done profiles and messages to find what they want. the more men (and women) can save each other’s time the faster they can find the right people. but it’s true, it may take a while, just like in the “real world”, so don’t give up.