One guy dares to ask what almost everyone else is wondering.
This post originally appeared at She Said He Said.
Dear Sexes: Why do women fake orgasms? Why don’t they just give better instructions? What’s a sure fire way to know they’re faking?
She Said: Let’s face the facts: women aren’t always going to come during intercourse alone. And because your sweet, sexy faces are looking at us so hopefully, and we know you’re trying, sometimes we start to feel insecure or afraid to disappoint you. Though of course there are lots of other reasons we might fake, sometimes it’s because we feel like a failure not being able to get there (though we all know that’s not true). So give her lots of reassurance that it’s more about the act of being together and making her happy than any final conclusion.
Want to know an almost sure-fire way to guarantee an orgasm during sex? (Of course you do!) Encourage her to touch herself! Yeah, you’re gonna have to get out of your own ego and assumptions that this means you aren’t fulfilling her. But it’s so worth it! Tell her how incredibly sexy it is. Watch and learn. Afterward, ask specifics. Though she may do something you just can’t do exactly, that’s okay, it’ll be like your own little porno to watch while you’re doing it. And you may even get multiples from her! Trust me, you being inside her when she’s touching herself feels insane… beyond words.
Second, how do you know if she’s faking it? First, pay attention to her involuntary reactions when you know she’s coming… Flushed neck and chest, weird noises, lip-biting, shaking, whatever they may be… But most importantly, try to pay attention to the squeezing… the reflexive pulsing that makes it feel so completely mind-boggling in those crazy-special moments when you come at the same time. Those squeezes are tougher to fake, they’re totally unconscious.
Make sure you explain that you won’t be hurt if she isn’t going to get there. Tell her it’s totally cool, crack a joke, but be sweet. Then crack that handy bottle of lube and volunteer to help her get there afterward, if she wants.
He Said: Sex is fun, but sleeping is essential. I’m not saying you should give up sex for sleeping, but sometimes women get tired of giving instructions. We all need our beauty rest. They need their orgasms too, but if they have to coach you through it every time, then it makes things more challenging to truly be “in the moment”.
As I’ve said before, “date well, sex well, and most importantly communicate well”. In this case, sexing well goes hand-in-hand with communicating well. But even with good communication, if you don’t retain the information, the woman is going to have to instruct you every time. Perhaps this is alright if she’s into that. If not, learn quickly, before the heat of the moment freezes, and leaves you out in the cold.
Also, remember to work on a case by case basis. Every woman (and every vagina) is slightly different.
About She Said He Said
It took me a long time to discover, and I’m still not sure I totally accept it, that for many women orgasm is not a primary goal of having sex. Some (many? not all!) women don’t mind if they don’t have an orgasm in any particular sexual encounter. They may enjoy it, but it’s not necessarily a disappointment to them when they don’t. I can’t quite wrap my head around that just yet, but I know it’s true for many people. For some women sometimes, getting an orgasm seems in that moment to be more effort than it’s worth.
In fact, being too goal-oriented seems to be counterproductive, if your partner feels like she’s being put on stage or put on the spot.
Faking is a terrible long-term strategy for women. It’s completely counterproductive for getting what she wants out of sex, because it’s giving inaccurate feedback. (What in layman’s terms could be called “lying.”) It’s also somewhat patronizing, if you think about it.
That being said, I think there’s nothing wrong with a tiny bit of embellishment in the interest of giving positive feedback. If you want him to do more of something, let him know that the current activity feels good. It’s not faking to be a little extra exuberant in the interest of communication.
I am 100% with you, That Guy (seriously what’s your real first name, it seems really odd that I keep calling you That Guy?). I hope someday we get another faking question into SSHS so I can explain to women exactly why faking is bad for everyone.
And I agree about exuberance, too. Do it up a little bit at first
No names. You can call me TG if that works better. I could be more than one person, like Subcommandante Marcos or Spartacus. Or an ever changing collection of people, like the Wu Tang Clan.
Yep, That Guy, it is totally true. I think the reason some women don’t place too much primacy on orgasm is because it is a lot of work and effort. I know if I focus on it too much, then I tend to not really be in the moment. I have had fantastic sex with orgasms and without, so it doesn’t really matter. BUT that doesn’t mean those women are okay with being ignored. All those same things that make women orgasm make sex more enjoyable, even if they don’t orgasm.
I actually have never faked an orgasm, it honestly has never occurred to me in the moment to do that. But I can completely understand why women would, especially if it’s outside of a relationship (if there’s not going to be a second time, why bother trying to fix it?)
*raising hand* I am one of those women for whom the orgasm is not all that important. Good sex is like an iced cupcake. An orgasm is the sprinkles on top. Do I still enjoy the cupcake without the sprinkles? Absolutely!
Not that important to me either,I just want some SLEEP!
this is the real reason women fake orgasms:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201112/women-fake-orgasms-mate-retention-strategy
Well, I have faked it because I didn’t want to disappoint my partners. I put a bigger price tag on my man achieving pleasure sexually then myself. Especially when I was younger. I remember one encounter I had with a man when I started touching myself while we were having sex and he freaked out and asked me why I was doing that and if what he was doing wasn’t enough with this hurt tone. I just pulled my hand away and faked it to the finish. He was pleased. I was lukewarm at best. I should have been honest with him but the desire to perform the orgasm then actually have it seemed to be what he really wanted.
That Guy, I agree that orgasming isn’t always going to happen and that sometimes just the physicalness of the sexual experience alone is good stuff, but I wouldn’t go far to say that orgasm isn’t a primary goal for having sex or that it’s not sometimes a disappointment when you can’t “get there”. There is a balance. I don’t want a man to be completely disinterested in me achieving orgasm but I don’t want to be put on parade for it either with never ending questions of “did you come”.
I do agree that faking it is not good for either partner. But I think women do it because they don’t think their pleasure is as important as his. And socially, it’s what women are taught a lot of the times anyway. We are suppose to be the sex object, we are suppose to be sexy, we are taught to put on this performace that is pleasing for him because men are “visual” but to actually have sex is messy business that isn’t always full of beautiful visuals and enjoying it makes us “sluts” . It is an interestingly mixed message. And I think that mixed message contribute to women putting on a performance (faking it) then going about the hard work to figure out what the y like. But I do agee that that doesn’t help anyone. I think we need to stop with the idea that women are these visual sexual trophies there to perform more then they are to get full hands on messy involved in their own sexuality.
Man this kind of thing just chaps my hide. “I remember one encounter I had with a man when I started touching myself while we were having sex and he freaked out and asked me why I was doing that and if what he was doing wasn’t enough with this hurt tone. I just pulled my hand away and faked it to the finish. He was pleased. I was lukewarm at best.”
If there was one mythology I could rid the sexual world of, it’s that the PIV is the end all be all and if your woman doesn’t come (or if you expect to come from anal alone-I hear some men feel like they shouldn’t need penile stim in order for it to be “real”) you aren’t a good lover, it would be that one.
Some women orgasm from PIV. Some (many, if I hear correctly) do not. Some need clitoral stim during the act of PIV in order to orgasm during the act of PIV. Some women hate having to put pressure on themselves during PIV (as it takes focus away from their partner) and prefer to orgasm before or after.
That your partner was so insecure and rude is disheartening. That you weren’t able to speak up and talk to him and basically had to lie is also disheartening.
Everyone is different and has different needs. To shame each other isn’t cool. Takes all the actual fun out of having sex, in my mind.
“Everyone is different and has different needs. To shame each other isn’t cool. Takes all the actual fun out of having sex, in my mind.”
This. Exactly.
@Julie
“Some women hate having to put pressure on themselves during PIV (as it takes focus away from their partner) and prefer to orgasm before or after.”
I always thought it was better to give her hers first between foreplay and PIV or oral. If she gets another one during PIV, that’s the double bonus. Then after I’m done, it’s cuddle time. It’s important to get it right because I might come out for round two, but it ain’t answering the bell for round three.
Couldn’t agree more J.A. ! I go “down” and don’t ” come up for air” until she’s orgazmed (little O) then, while she’s still convulsing, I start PIV (I’m ready to go since nothing gets me excited like making her orgazm) Pretty soon , we get the “Big O”. Worked like a charm for 36 years now.
“That your partner was so insecure and rude is disheartening. That you weren’t able to speak up and talk to him and basically had to lie is also disheartening.
Everyone is different and has different needs. To shame each other isn’t cool. Takes all the actual fun out of having sex, in my mind.”
I agree Julie. Which is why it’s important to talk about it. We spend alot of time in our culture talking about alot of the salcious stuff that we sometimes forget to talk about these things too.
Yes, I think my partner was clearly insecure. As was I since I didn’t want to speak up. But I bought into alot of things I was sold about what my sexuality should be. Which was basically a performance for him over my own happiness. I think this happens to a lot of younger women/girls. And with porn being so in your face today, I bet this is happening even more so. Where girls thing their sexuality has to be fantasy performance, not a real display of their sexual enjoyment even if things aren’t as exciting or hot looking as men might want them to be from porn. Unfortunetly, he was older then me so I am not sure if he worked on those insecurities. But I hope he did. I’m still a work in progress but I am better then I use to be. It’s hard to drive out age old messages sometimes!
I’ve done the same thing, Erin, when I was younger. Now if I were with a guy (were I single, which I’m not) I’d have to have a serious talk about his discomfort with a woman touching herself during sex. If he couldn’t be supportive, I’d bolt. Too much ego there.
Ego and insecurity all wrapped up in one!
Thanks Joanna.
Wow, that is ridiculously depressing. And I agree with Julie, the whole PIV obsession needs to quit. A man could be doing penis acrobatics in my vagina and I still wouldn’t orgasm. Just not how my body is built. Expecting a woman to not touch her clit during sex is like expecting a man to not let the head of his penis come in contact with anything.
Honestly, where did this focus on PIV come from? It’s really counterproductive to enjoyable sex.
I am hereby launching my own personal semantic crusade to change “PIV” (Penis-In-Vagina) to “VAP” (Vagina And Penis or Vagina Around Penis).
PIV suggests that the penis is the active member and that the key movement is the movement of the penis into and within the vagina. One could just as easily see the vaginal partner as an active participant. Surely there is “envelopment” going on as much as “penetration” going on. I think if we stop reinforcing the idea that the penis moves and the vagina stands still, we’ll see the mutuality of vaginal intercourse. That way there won’t be so much exclusive focus on what the man is doing right or wrong.
I mean, if we’re going to keep focusing on the penis/vagina interface at all. Ooh, wait! I’ve got a better idea:
V.I.P. = Vaginal Interface w/ Penis
Sorry, “crusade” has a threatening connotation to those who are Muslim, Eastern Orthodox, or Arab Christian. I mean it in strictly a secular sense.
I could understand getting freaked out. It was unexpected and I for one would be wondering what you were going to do with your hand so close to a very sensitive region. I don’t understand staying freaked out. There is the possibility that he thought you were telling him that he wasn’t big enough so you had to include your fingers. That probably wasn’t the time to discuss it and I think you handled it fine. If you decide to bring that up to a guy in the future, you might want to keep in mind that men have body issues as well.
I think it is very strange to get freaked out. If a man doesn’t know what she is doing with her hand close to a sensitive region, it would seem that he is not very well versed in female anatomy. Honestly, it’s fairly common practice for a woman to touch her clitoris during sex, really during any part of sex during which her clitoris is not being touched, foreplay or during. So to get freaked out by a woman touching herself during sex is very strange.
Maybe I didn’t use the right term. In saying freak out, I meant an involuntary, spontaneous, reaction caused by surprise that would probably cause him to suddenly pull away. I was under the impression that this was Erin’s first time with him and they didn’t know how each other reacts, but my impression could be wrong.
I was in a “full contact” gentlemen’s club and enjoying time with an entertainer. Patrons are restricted in what full contact means, but I take it that the entertainers aren’t that restricted. She thought it would be a good idea to start rubbing her knee against my groin. When I felt the contact, I almost jumped out of the chair and sent her flying, but then I realized what was going on and communicated to her that it wasn’t cool so she stopped and everything was fine.
I think the problem was more from him staying freaked out than from being initially shocked. I may have used the wrong term. Hope that clarifies it.
No, I think I understand what you mean, but I find it weird that there would be any initial shock. In your example, there was another person suddenly touching your groin, which would warrant shock in anyone. I probably would react as you did. But the example Erin gave was of her going to touch herself, which totally baffles me as to why anyone would be shocked. That is completely normal in sex and really should not be shocking. I mean, I don’t know if even a virgin would be surprised, if they are aware of where the clitoris is located.
So I find it incredibly weird that he was even initially shocked.
@Artemis
“I don’t know if even a virgin would be surprised, if they are aware of where the clitoris is located.”
Your experiences are yours and I won’t argue them. There are a couple things I’ve figured out in 40+ years of life.
There is a difference between knowledge and useful knowledge. I was talking to a friend about martial arts and mentioned a strike where you don’t hit with your knuckles, but the next joint over. I can’t remember what it’s called. I think it’s called a leopard paw or leopard palm strike. If you look at it, it kind of looks like an animal paw. The striking point is the trachea. Don’t try this at home! His comment was you went to school so someone could tell you that hitting someone in the throat will take them down. I asked him if he would have ever thought to strike the throat in a fight and he truthfully said no. That’s the difference between knowledge and useful knowledge.
The second thing is that whenever I think that I’ve encountered the stupidest thing I could image, there is always something more. I few years back I was asked to fix someone’s log in problem. As I approached her desk, she complains that every time she clicks the computer just says what’s this, what’s this? I didn’t even look at it and told her to use the left mouse button. She gives me this incredulous look and asks how was I supposed to know that. It was around 2007. I thought everyone knew that.
I can’t speak for Erin’s partner. I don’t know what he was thinking. It could have been she’s touching herself so I’m inadequate or it could be WFT. Oh, she’s touching herself. I must be inadequate. I’m Just proposing another possibility.
I don’t know, to not be aware of the clitoris would mean that 1) you would have to have never had sex with a woman before, 2) have never watched porn before, 3) missed that lesson in biology, or 4) are a hermit. I find it incredibly weird that a person would be completely oblivious to the presence of the clitoris and it’s function. Hence why I cannot and probably never will understand how someone can be shocked by such an action.
This was neither my first time, his first time, or our first time together. He was someone I dated for a while years ago. He was also an older man in his 30s at the time. Not a spring chicken. Not a virgin. I think he felt inadequate because of me touching myself, not because he didn’t understand the function of the clitoris. It jsut wasn’t as important as his insecurity. But I don’t want to demonize him. He was good in other respects. But he had his insecurities and because of what I believed about female sexuality, and my own insecurities, and the idea that it was more of a performance for the guy, then something we should be mutually enjoying, I didn’t speak up. I wanted to be the fantasy because that’s really what it seemed men wanted over me, warts and all. (UMM..not real warts like STD warts *wink LOL..emotional warts.
) Again, I think this happens to a lot of younger women and girls when it comes to sex and performance and expectation about who they think they should be vs who they are.
Good point about the balance. I think for many people that’s the tricky part.
For many men, this is where there seems to be a tightrope walk, or at least some nuances that are hard to figure out.
On the one hand, the man needs to be interested in his partner’s pleasure, recognize that he may need to do things for her pleasure that don’t directly stimulate him, and he should check in before, during and after. He needs to be a willing partner looking to make sure his partner gets all the feel-goods she wants and not take her orgasm for granted. He should notice when she doesn’t have an orgasm. Don’t assume every woman finds PIV orgasmic. Don’t be focused all on yourself, be a partner.
On the other hand, he’s not supposed to make too big a deal out of it. He’s not supposed to pressure her or put her on the spot or make her orgasm into the center of the entire encounter. He should not let his desire to be a skilled partner go too far. For her, an orgasm may not be the primary goal or the main event every time they have sex. You don’t have to bring it up every single time. Don’t assume every woman finds cunnilingus orgasmic. Don’t be focused all on her, be a partner.
Some but not too much. Attention but not too much attention. Every woman is different, but play by some universal rules.
I think in terms of hetero men’s views of sex there’s been a massive pendulum swing from being largely ignorant or indifferent to women’s orgasm to being overly obsessed with it. With some men, not seeing an orgasm triggers a neurotic search for answers, like an autopsy of their sex life, which women sometimes avoid by faking it so they won’t have to go through all that. (Certainly not with all men, of course.) Many of us seem to fall into either extreme, when the best thing would be somewhere in the middle.
Perhaps there is a sort of progress here. Maybe women are faking orgasm today for somewhat different reasons than their mothers did…..
Most women don’t orgasm simply PIV so I get her going before you got to lick it before you stick it. It gives you a nice view. You can play with it awhile and if you’re smart you just work it in at the tail end of foreplay. It comes real natural and it flows. Besides you’re not going to want to have to do that after you’re done.
As a public service to the GMP community, the problem seems to be that the woman’s pleasure sensor is located in an inaccessible spot at least for something that doesn’t curve like at penis.
“News aired a segment about the “G Shot” – an injection of collagen into the base of a woman’s bladder designed to “put sparks back into ladies sex lives.” Or as reporter Catherine Shreves explains “because the G-spot is anatomically tucked away, the goal of the G-shot is to make the G-spot more accessible.”
I don’t know that I would recommend the G-Shot, but it is out there.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/local-news-anchor-says-to-reporter-so-shes-enjoying-penis-a-little-bit-more/
There is a funny bit of banter at the end of the video segment.
I watched that on Netflix a little while ago. LOVED it. Came out of it super-pissed at the pharma industry, but hey.
The funniest thing is I was watching it by myself and then Hubby walked by, heard a little snippet of the narration, and said immediately “Are you watching Orgasm Inc.?”
Big points for Hubby!
Well that’s a part of what happens when a guy is led to believe that if he doesn’t bring her to orgasm then he has failed as a man. If he thinks she’s not getting hers then it could interfere with him getting his.
There are many ways to make sure she enjoys herself, from oral, manual, vibes and more. That’s the thing I think people get caught up on…the PIV has to be the only way it “counts.”
People who think this way do so simply because this is what their led to believe by modern entertainment. And I don’t necessaraly mean porn even. Even if porn excites you you know it’s fake, a fantasy (Kind of like professional wresteling). I’m talking hollywood moviesand cable TV shows. like that HBO show ‘Hung’. That guy justs pounds away with his big tool and the women come to screaming O’s every time. So if you can’t bring your woman there like that, well, your just not “Man enough” son.
There are many ways to make sure she enjoys herself, from oral, manual, vibes and more. That’s the thing I think people get caught up on…the PIV has to be the only way it “counts.”
That’s precisely what I mean. Its not just about ego and pride when it comes to a guy thinking his penis is supposed to be “the way” to please a woman. Its about obligation. A feeling that her using anything other than his penis is a sign that he is not doing his job.
This relates to how we are at the point where insulting a guys sexual prowess (and his masculinty/manhood by extension) is to insult his penis.
But when it is clear that the penis doesn’t actually do the thing it feels that it is obligated to do….(at least for 25% of women)….why worry about it as an obligation? His sexual prowess should be connected to his ability to utitlize his whole self to give his lover pleasure, much the same way vice versa. Her body/being gives him pleasure, not that he has to work one singular part of his body in order for it to count as good. The penis, as nice as it can be, is not always the end all be all. It’s a fantastic piece of sex, but for many women there is so much more than just the old in and out. Many women I know love PIV because of HIS experience not theirs. They know they are giving HIM pleasure.
So much guilt/pain/expectation/upsetness connected with something that should be much easier and more fun.
Ideally you are right Julie.
But when it is clear that the penis doesn’t actually do the thing it feels that it is obligated to do….(at least for 25% of women)….why worry about it as an obligation?
Because when you are taught, told, and raised to believe “that is the way its supposed to be” then you will be set in that way and when push comes to shove in the face of it not working out the way we were told we figure that something is wrong with us.
So much guilt/pain/expectation/upsetness connected with something that should be much easier and more fun.
You are correct when you say this.
Danny, I’m curious about where this message is coming from. I’m not a man, obviously, so I didn’t pick up on that message. Is it just a media implicit thing, or explicit? Is it because of the general focus on PIV (like the whole “you haven’t lost your virginity until you’ve had PIV” thing)? It would be interesting to hear a man’s perspective on this, I really don’t hear much about this topic.
Well for one it certainly does come from media. As bobbt points out the vast majority of instances in tv/movies that involve heterosexual sex its centered around him satisfying the woman with his penis. You can see it in music as well. I’m not sure how much music you listen to but again when it comes to sexual pleasure its about being “big enough” to get the job done (this is really prominent in rap/hip-hop which feeds into the hypersexualization of black men and speaking of what’s the stereotype about black men again?
And it doesn’t help that there are indeed women that not only prefer large penises (no problem in and of itself) but will then project their preference as truth and will then cut down any man that doesn’t measure up (see what I did there?). In fact I bet just like women who have insecurities about their body parts even in the face of men with opinions that say otherwise those men that project their preferences as fact and then cut women seem to come in a bit louder.
And yes this:
(like the whole “you haven’t lost your virginity until you’ve had PIV” thing)
Plays a big role in it.
“And it doesn’t help that there are indeed women that not only prefer large penises (no problem in and of itself) but will then project their preference as truth and will then cut down any man that doesn’t measure up (see what I did there?).”
That is a shame. I honestly have not encountered this, but I also have never talked about penises with other women. Most of my friends have only been with one or a handful of men, so if any talk of penises came up, it would be immediately clear WHOSE it was, and that would be uncomfortable. :/ But that’s not cool and it’s sad that some women do that.
And the virginity thing is really bothersome to me. I really think it needs to stop, the whole PIV focus is really counterproductive to a healthy sexual relationship. (Plus, I mean, if you have already had orgasms together, have seen each other naked, done manual/oral, virginity is pretty much just semantics)
I haven’t encountered that either. I think too many men watch too much porn and just assume women want a big one. And it seems more like the big penis thing is more about a man’s ego than his partner’s pleasure
I get it. In the film Orgasm Inc, a 55 year old married woman goes through an invasive procedure in hopes she’ll finally be able to have an orgasm during sex. After the procedure fails, (and she’s feeling diseased and wrong for not being able to), it’s clarified that she can have orgasms just fine, just not during PIV alone. When she realizes that most women can’t, it’s this amazing relief to her. Imagine, 55 years of suffering and feeling something was wrong with her, only to realize that in actuality, she was normal.
I can imagine her partner too felt like he was failing, when in fact, he wasn’t.
Real information for people would be helpful.
What’s odd is that many people grow up hearing the message you mention, but realizing it’s false. I mean, I did. I feel really lucky that I figured out how to feel good and that I realized it had (in my case) nothing to do with PIV proper and other things that could be incorporated into the entirety of the time together. I”m also lucky the men I dated weren’t bound to the idea that PIV was the only thing, the “real” thing.
I suppose it’s why I talk about sex so much. I want people getting a good start on understanding their body.
There’s a little problem with giving instructions. Obviously, I know what gets me off, but that’s not because I have some mental narration going on when I masturbate. I *instantly* know if it feels good or not and can *instantly* change course if it’s not working without having to think about why or what has to change. So if a guy were to ask me for specific instructions, I’d fumble for words. I could probably tell him what not to do, but not what *to* do. And sometimes even after an effort at giving instructions, it’s still not quite right and I just want to take over and finish the job (which can’t be a good feeling for him).
I also think there is some merit to the notion that it’s easier for men to achieve orgasm than for women. Forgive me for the sweeping generalization (and correct me if I’m really off-base), but for men it seems that as long as you just keep pumping and you’re not drunk or high, orgasm will eventually happen. (I personally have yet to meet a guy who will admit he regularly has difficulty coming.) For women, persistence & repetition alone isn’t going to get her there. And sometimes you can be doing everything right and it still just doesn’t happen, for whatever reason or for no reason at all. This is just as frustrating for the woman as for the man, believe me.
Lastly, sexual stage fright is a real thing. You know your cues, you know all the lines, but when the spotlight is on, you go blind, deaf, and mute. But your audience is still expecting a performance, so you give it your best shot and hope he doesn’t notice. Hence: the motivation for faking. Perhaps the nicest thing a man can do for a woman is to ask “Did it feel good?” instead of “Did you come?”
“For women, persistence & repetition alone isn’t going to get her there.”
From what I read, it’s because the spot isn’t actually being hit because in many women it’s not accessibly to things that don’t curve. That’s why women can get off orally or digitally, but PIV is a problem for many women.
This is totally spot-on. I honestly can’t give instructions, it just doesn’t work. I can do general things, like indicate if I want oral or manual or things like that. But being able to say “Move one centimeter to the left on my clit” is really not going to work. And honestly, sometimes that’s the difference, but it’s hard to tell, and it’s hard to describe. And yeah, I have also had to finish the job sometimes, but fortunately I am with someone who doesn’t take it personally and is just happy to see me happy.
“For women, persistence & repetition alone isn’t going to get her there.”
Yes! That just makes me bored, which then makes me daydream, which then is incredibly counterproductive to orgasm.
To John: I’m assuming you are referring to the G-Spot. I would like to also point out that the G-Spot, even if being consistently hit, may not make a woman orgasm. Everyone is made differently, so I can’t speak for other women, but in my own experience, while the G-Spot feels nice and definitely makes PIV sex better, there is no way I am going to be able to orgasm just from that. If I don’t have clitoral stimulation, there is no way I am going to be able to orgasm, and that is including G-Spot stim with fingers. The only times I have orgasmed during PIV (an absurdly rare occassion) have been when my partner was almost completely still and I was stimulating my clitoris.
So really, in my experience, if you are interested in a woman enjoying herself during sex, I would focus less on the G-Spot and more on the clitoris.
“Forgive me for the sweeping generalization (and correct me if I’m really off-base), but for men it seems that as long as you just keep pumping and you’re not drunk or high, orgasm will eventually happen. (I personally have yet to meet a guy who will admit he regularly has difficulty coming.) For women, persistence & repetition alone isn’t going to get her there. ”
Hi, nice to finally meet you! I’m a guy who rarely orgasms when my wife gives me a little manual or oral loving. Feels really good though. But when she gets really determined that she’s going to make me orgasm… it all goes to hell. I appreciate her “persistence and repetition” but I agree with you… boring. I have more luck when I’m really turned on and there’s a bit of variation to what she’s doing. And even then, it’s never a sure thing.
But, it certainly frustrates her. And I can relate, having been in the same spot with women in the past. Realizing you can’t “make” someone orgasm is important, I think. Truly, you’re just helping out. Lending a hand so to speak.
Well, for me it’s because it takes me a long time to orgasm, while a man can get off in a few minutes. easier to go ahead and and let him get off. It’s just wIf a guy asks me if I orgasm, I’m honest and say no. Also, I dont like feeling like I’m forced to have an orgasm.
gspot-
i think some men have hit mine, but it just makes me feel like I have to pee.
@Alice
“think some men have hit mine, but it just makes me feel like I have to pee.”
It’s hidden by the bladder. My guess is that they’re hitting the bladder and that’s what makes you want to pee. Another possibility is that after ejaculation, a man will often times have the urge to pee. It clears out his urinary tract. It could be something related to that, but if you didn’t orgasm, I’d suspect it’s the hitting the bladder thing.
I’ve heard that about female ejaculation, normally it is triggered by g-spot stimulation and many women report feeling like they have to pee before they orgasm/ejaculate (but they don’t, they just ejaculate).
Harrumph. I agree wholeheartedly that communication is the number one thing. Does this feel really, really good? However, as human beings we all have to feign enthusiasm every now and again.
Is this picture my niece drew good? Probably not.
Is the casserole you cooked tasty? 50/50 as it’s a goddamned casserole.
Is his thoroughly average sex technique guaranteed to blow up the spot 100% of the time? Nopers.
But, in the name of expediency and all that, we sometimes go down on each other even if we haven’t showered in 18 hours. We compliment each other in small odd ways like giving each other Chickfila even if we find fried food repellant. I think most dudes realize that only a minority of women (I believe the figure is around 25%) regularly orgasm from PIV. And, somewhere, we realize that hand/mouth stimulation doesn’t always get the job done (you may’ve had too much coffee, wine, Yellow #5, whatever). However, if we’re “at it” for a good long while, it makes sense to go ‘head and pretend like it happened. If he is never ever (or even rarely) making it happen for real, then it merits discussion.
For whatever reason, the onus of making sure that things pop is squarely on the dude. If he doesn’t come, it’s his fault. If she doesn’t come… it’s his fault. Most of us are fairly interested in making sure that you have a good time (even misogynists seem to delight in delighting women, right?) and sometimes we should get a fucking participation trophy (I don’t think that qualifies as double entendre) given the “mysterious nature” of female sexuality.
OK then, be nice to each other.
Bobbt–good point adding in the part about popular entertainment also contributes to performance anxiety–not just porn. In most movies and shows, it’s all being thrown against walls, clothes coming off without any effort, PIV orgasms every time, perfect, well-lit bodies on both sides, incredible mind-blowing passion, not an awkward move here or there. It puts a lot of pressure (and unrealistic ideas) on everyone, particularly younger people and ones who haven’t had a lot of sexual experiences or only ever had one night stands (the only times I’ve ever faked were early on–after more sexual encounters or within a relationship, the guy gets to know my body better, I’m more comfortable leading him to the right spots, and assume he can tell real from fake). Real sex isn’t always so seamless. Things slip out, bodies sweat and make weird noises, women might not orgasm at all, or take longer to do so. There might be laughter, silence, positions that are tried wholeheartedly but just don’t work in the moment, etc. Women don’t want a man to feel inadequate, run away, or be unable to enjoy himself if we don’t orgasm (and seeing a man enjoy himself is so incredibly hot).
I remember being happy seeing a scene in the now-cancelled American ‘Skins’ where a guy is about to have sex for the first time with a girl he’s had a crush on since they were kids. He prematurely ejaculates. She laughs it off and they end up getting together anyways. This kind of scene is rare. In most media, she’d storm off in a huff and tell all her girlfriends, or he’d freak out and never want to see her again. The scene in ‘Nick and Norah’s Infinite Playlist’ is a wonderful representation of how I was able to have my first, and most orgasms. Just because I don’t orgasm every time in every position and every situation, it doesn’t mean that I don’t crave and love all the sex and penis.
I cannot respect ‘faking it’. Knowing my partner is getting off is a HUGE turn-on, especially the little facial expressions and sounds. If you’re faking it because you don’t want to disappoint someone you’re essentially sabotaging the sexual act.
Wait a minute. People may be jumping to conclusions here. I don’t see in the original question where he’s saying she’s faking an orgasm with PIV sex.
That may be likely, but it’s not like women only fake orgasms during PIV sex. It’s not like women only fake when the clitoris is untouched. Women sometimes fake orgasm when men try to please them clitorally (a real adverb?). Women may fake orgasm when a man uses his mouth and/hands. It can’t all be traced to male ignorance of the clitoris.
I’m hearing here the suggestion “well if you could just locate the clitoris she wouldn’t have to fake it.” Maybe, maybe not.
Perhaps I’m breaking The Guy Code here and exposing high-level state secrets, but..…sometimes we can tell you’re faking it and we don’t say anything. There are convincing acting jobs and not-so-convincing acting jobs. When we don’t seem to notice, it could be that we don’t notice. It could also be that we do notice and just choose not to do anything about it. It’s not a lie that hurts me any. Sometimes it’s to our benefit to be thought of as clueless.
That’s true, it may not be PIV sex, but I think a lot of the reasons still apply. Performance anxiety, too much pressure to orgasm, high expectations, things just not working for you. It can happen during PIV or during manual/oral. I actually have my highest stress levels during manual because that’s when I feel I’m expected to orgasm. Oral and PIV I can just enjoy because I know I probably won’t and so am not pressured to do so. I don’t really think anyone was suggesting it was just a matter of finding the clitoris, but some people do think PIV alone will make a woman orgasm, and it was a good opportunity to talk about it.
And yeah, I kind of figure that men can tell sometimes. I have never faked an orgasm, part of it is because I just don’t think of it and part of it is because I don’t think I would be a very convincing actress.
Crap. Women know that we know they’re faking, and now I know that they know that I know they’re faking. This is getting complicated. Maybe the best thing is for everyone to tell the truth?
Yes, That Guy! Absolutely. All of these comments and, in the end, one simple message. Women–don’t fake. Men–don’t think we’re not enjoying it or that we’re not sexual if we don’t cum or don’t cum in the way movies have taught you we’re supposed to.
Well yeah, obviously the best thing would be to tell the truth, haha.
I don’t know, one of my friends said that she faked orgasms with her long term boyfriend and when she finally admitted it, he didn’t seem to have already been aware. Maybe he was faking that too. :/
Also, there was one survey asking women why they fake orgasms and a surprising number said they faked orgasms to enjoy themselves more during sex. I feel like we need to ask more women who fake their orgasms why they fake (most of the women who have commented here seem to not be in the habit of faking, so most people are just hypothesizing about why women fake it).
Sure, men can fake surprise as well as women can fake orgasm. We can fake all sorts of feelings as well as women can fake orgasm. It’s in our interest to seem simple and clueless, because it looks like we’re guileless.
Yes! Sometimes faking an orgasm does make sex more pleasurable. It’s like smiling when you’re not happy and it makes you feel better.
Furthermore, some study suggested that some amount of grunting and panting (I wish I could think of a sexier way to describe it) that women do during sexual activity is involuntary BUT for the benefit of the man’s orgasm. Ain’t that some shish? The idea that he’s pleasuring you is designed to pleasure him. Ideally, a positive feedback loop is thereby created.
Someone asked about the physical nature of a male orgasm. Yes, for a healthy guy, eventually something happens (note: I once read an article that stated that a man ejaculating and a man orgasming aren’t necessarily the same thing). But, if it’s taking a very long time and he’s getting tired and she’s getting sore (or the other way around), it’s not inconceivable to say you came and finish yourself off later.
Orgasms are *somewhat* cerebral and, in some cases, performing the sounds, feelings and movements can lead to fruition. Once in a while, you can fake it until you make it.
I don’t think this issue matters at all, but it is beyond belief that after FOURTY ONE comments only one person bothered to metion the obvious (thanks Tom):
GO DOWN ON HER!
I mentioned it and so did bobbt. You sound like me in one of my nastier moments.
When we broke up, an ex-girlfriend once told me that she faked her orgasms. I told her that it was cool because I faked caring that she had one. She had a fit. I really didn’t, but what she said was just unnecessary and mean.
The moment has nothing to do with it. I am nasty all the time. In most cases, it is the mission. With banal inanities such as this, I think it is just habit.
Eh, oral is not a guaranteed orgasm. Actually, for me it’s a guaranteed non-orgasm. But it’s still awesome.
I feel like the advice is really more just like, “Try everything! She will like something eventually!”
Men fake it for the same reasons. There have been a ton of times where a girl is trying so hard but just… can’t quite get me there. Faking it is just a way of trying to be nice.
In my experience, many women don’t take it very well if they don’t think you are satisfied. I’m assuming women have the same troubles with men.
It’s somewhat rare to find a woman who says that she fakes orgasms in her current relationship(s). Every time I’ve heard someone say she’s faked it, she immediately follows that up with “but I don’t do it anymore” or “that was back when….” It’s a little suspicious, a little too convenient, that so many have faked and yet none of them do it anymore. There must be some cases where this is actually a double-fake.
The thing is…being a woman, and having this be true for me…believe it. With my most recent partners, I didn’t have to and COULDN’T fake after a while. They know my body too well. With long-term partners, it makes no sense to fake and would be disrespectful. If they’re the type of guy I want to be with, they’ll be willing to learn what makes me feel good, be willing to make me feel good without obsessing over performance, and not freak out if I don’t orgasm every time. I faked when I had nervous or drunken first encounters when I was younger (I’m in my mid-20s now, so that wasn’t too long ago). I haven’t had to fake in a while now. Maybe I’m getting more secure with my sexuality as I get older. Maybe I just pick partners who make me more comfortable, I have more chemistry with, and learn more quickly. Sexuality changes over the course of a lifetime.
I appreciate what you’re saying.
Sure, probably in most cases she’s telling the truth when she says she doesn’t fake any more, and every relationship calls for some trust.
I hope you can see how much of a leap of faith you may be calling for by saying a man just has to believe you. Imagine if a man told you “I’ve been unfaithful in every relationship I’ve been in, but you have to believe me when I tell you that you’re totally different. I’m a different person now. I don’t do that anymore.” You might feel like a sucker to take that on faith.
When a woman says she doesn’t fake any more, I’m curious if she has a history of saying that to the men she’s faking with.
Another way to look at it: if a man just ignores the possibility that his partner is faking her orgasms, then he stands accused of being arrogant or ignorant. If he’s worried that she’s faking it then he stands accused of being insecure. I guess the middle road is the best – he’s supposed to recognize the possibility but not dwell on it?
I do get where you’re coming from. In a relationship where two people are in sync though, it’s personally difficult for me to imagine the possibility of faking–even just physically. I can’t speak for all women and all relationships though.
While I get the logic, it’s difficult to understand the parallel to unfaithfulness. Sex, unless you’re in a long distance relationship, is something you do every day/week, whatever your preferences. It’s very intimate. You’re very close and vulnerable. Infidelity is something that happens away from your partner.
And at the end of the day, though, this is why I don’t fake with boyfriends: I don’t want to be in a whatever-year relationship and never have a real orgasm or have to sneak off to masturbate all the time. Unfortunately, my orgasms don’t look like they’re ‘supposed’ to. I don’t moan seductively and go back and forth between rolling my eyes into the back of my head and looking intensely at the guy who’s pounding me. I clench, breathe oddly, and make funny noises/faces. This is why I’ve faked in my past. As Artemis said–just to enjoy sex more. I like it when a guy is enjoying himself and trying to touch me with passion without focusing on a goal or following a script. It’s a turn off when he’s so focused on performance.
It must be frustrating to be a guy and have to wonder. Good call on the middle of the road theory. It’s possible that she does say the same thing to every guy. Maybe she really just decided that enough was enough and got tired of faking. Like I said, I don’t know every woman. It’s a two way street, too. You have to be understanding if she doesn’t cum every time or doesn’t cum the way you expect her to–and really believe that she’s enjoying herself when she tells you she is. She has to be understanding that you might be insecure about it, and be truthful to you. Another myth we have to get rid of–the myth of the all-encompassing ‘fragile male ego.’ Women need to speak up more. There are plenty of men out there who would rather just honestly please their women and feel good physically themselves than just be seen as sex gods (right?).
I like what JR says below…that women should just stop faking. It gives everyone a bad name, including guys. I have a few guy friends who are very TMI when it comes to sex, particularly about casual sex and early in relationships. I often end up being suspicious on two levels now. The obvious one: the guy is exaggerating and trying to impress. And the one that first pops into my head: she’s faking. I really want to give them the benefit of the doubt. You made her cum 10 times on your first night and THAT hard? And you were both drinking and/or smoking pot? Mmmhm. If I didn’t know that women faked, I’d be far more likely to believe this story.
It just seems so completely unnecessary for women to worry about what they look or sound like when they have an orgasm. Of all the things to be self-conscious about…. For 99% of the men who you have an orgasm with, they will not think your faces or sounds are weird. Certainly they won’t find them unattractive. Quite the opposite. I would even guess you would be more memorable if you WEREN’T like a porn cliché. These are some of the “man-I-love-the-special-way-she ____” bits of endearment. Considering what stupid look I probably have on my face, I’m in no position to judge someone else’s O-face.
Same reason guys fake it.
Good point David,
My friend told me the sex was so bad with this girl that he faked it, then went to the bathroom right away to discard the condom so she wouldn’t find out. He just wanted it to be over with already. If I want it to be over with I just say stop. Plus its written all over my face so he usually he gets the message.
It is every woman’s moral obligation to stop faking orgasms. It causes a terrible chain of sexual frustration. You fake orgasms, then you break up with him because he doesn’t please you. Poor guy has no clue because instead of opening your mouth to tell the truth, you opened your mouth to scream a moaning lie. Then he comes to me. I am incapable of faking anything so he berates me for not coming because he thinks he is the best in town. He proceeds to tell me how is previous GF (the faker) always had an orgasm. I then have to show him when Harry Met Sally so he can understand women can fake them. Faking is a disservice to everyone involved but mainly yourself because you could be having a real one if you spoke up about your sexual needs.
Well said!!!
Is it bad that I fake foreplay?
I would prefer to be with a guy that enjoyed foreplay Some Guy.
Why do you fake foreplay? What about is is unenjoyable for you?