We’ve all been there and it’s never fun. Christie Hartman breaks down how rejection works, and what it means.
Let’s face it: rejection sucks. I hate it, you hate it, and women hate it. Why? Because it feels crappy. However, rejection is an unavoidable part of life, especially when you’re single. And rejection may suck, but it shouldn’t hold you back from getting what you want.
When a woman says no to a date or never returns your call, people will often tell you, “Don’t take it personally.” Hell, even I’ve said those words. But the truth is, even if you have skin as thick as an alligator, it’s going to feel a bit personal. Why? Because you’re human. And humans take everything personally.
See, we humans have an innate need to feel important. We want others to like and appreciate us for who we are. When we get stuck in environments where we aren’t understood or appreciated, we long for a way out. When we’re lucky enough to find that place (or person) that appreciates who we are, we thrive. That’s why the wrong job or marriage can have such a bad effect on us.
When a woman rejects you, you may feel unappreciated and unimportant. You may dial in on whatever insecurity plagues you: your extra 30 pounds, your hair loss, the fact that you haven’t had sex in two years. You may even feel inadequate or like you’ve somehow “failed.” And, as a result, you may experience a variety of negative emotions: anger, hopelessness, resentment. These feelings suck so much that a life of celibacy, where you’re married to your video games or porn collection, starts to sound like a viable option. But it doesn’t need to be this way.
When a woman rejects you, it means you don’t have what she’s looking for. Yeah, that feels personal. But does that mean there’s something wrong with you? No. Does that mean you’re inadequate? No! She’s just not the girl for you, period.
All of us, male or female, have certain people we find attractive, and other people we don’t. Some people have the qualities we like, others don’t. There’s nothing wrong with those we feel no attraction to or have little in common with – they just aren’t for us. Likewise, a woman has NO control over her level of interest in a man. And if she can’t help how she feels, why should you take it so personally?
The best way to handle rejection is to believe in yourself. There’s another word for this: confidence. Not every woman will like your brand of man. Who cares? Focus on the women who DO appreciate it. They’re out there. And if rejection makes you feel inadequate in some way, either fix the inadequacy or get comfortable with it. Because if you’re comfortable with it, others will be too.
Years ago, a man I knew asked me out over email. I politely turned him down. He responded with a long, angry diatribe about how women “always use the same excuses” and it was “just a casual date and not a candlelight dinner,” etc. He took my lack of romantic interest in him, something I could not control, far too personally. He seemed to believe that by rejecting him I was somehow conveying that he was inadequate or unworthy. In actuality, he was neither. He was attractive and interesting. I just wasn’t interested.
I once gave my phone number to a guy who’d asked for it. I liked him, and he seemed to like me. He never called. Did I feel rejected? Yes. Did I wonder why he never called? Sure. But did I feel inadequate in some way, or resentful of him? No. Why? Because I believed in myself. If he wasn’t interested, someone else would be. And if no man wanted me, then I would make some changes.
In the end, what matters most isn’t women’s opinion of you – what matters is your opinion of you. When you’re comfortable with who you are – insecurities and all – you still won’t like rejection, but you’ll shrug it off and keep going.
When you get out there and date, remember that while rejection never feels good, a woman’s rejection can’t make you feel inadequate. Only you have that ability.
Photo—Sad young woman from Shutterstock
About Christie Hartman
You are speaking from a position of immense privilege. The privilege of being a woman when it comes to dating.
“The best way to handle rejection is to believe in yourself. There’s another word for this: confidence.”
Ahh yes, confidence. How does one HAVE confidence when the only feedback they got from the world is you have no value? The definition of delusion is to believe something that no one else does.
“Focus on the women who DO appreciate it.”
What about when none do?
“These feelings suck so much that a life of celibacy, where you’re married to your video games or porn collection, starts to sound like a viable option. But it doesn’t need to be this way.”
It doesn’t? How not? What other option is there?
“I once gave my phone number to a guy who’d asked for it. I liked him, and he seemed to like me. He never called. Did I feel rejected?”
You were not rejected. You did not take any action. This is NOT rejection. Rejection requires you to put yourself on the line and get shoved through an emotional buzz saw.
“Does that mean you’re inadequate? No!”
Actually, that is exactly what it means. It means you do not meet her standards and are inadequate.
Whenever women tell guys how they shouldn’t worry about rejection so much ,and how rejection is no big deal – it feels quite trite coming from the gender that forces us to take all the rejection.
What’s even more arrogant is when these types of women will quite something trivial and call it a “rejection”. Some feminists even invented a term called “passive rejection”.
Apparently merely existing in the same room as a man, and him approaching another woman instead of you, is you being “rejected”. No kidding.
Again, I don’t think most men mind how unfair and unequal dating is. I think what they mind is the general ingratitude and lack of empathy on the part of women for this situation. Feel free to reject men all you want, but please don’t tell us its easy when you refuse to do it.
Feel free to keep to the sexist caveman role where the man does all the risk-taking,but don’t then tell us you’re progressive and in support of abolishing gender roles. Spare us the hypocrisy.
So…I’ve never heard that term “Passive rejection” and I’ve been a feminist a long time. Anyone claiming to be rejected passively when a man is in the same room has a serious perspective problem. I don’t want to use ablist language, but that’s just crazy.
Who are these feminists? Do you have links cause I’d like to go and school them some.
I think women need to make more moves too. I’ve always been assertive when dating and figure most of the boyfriends I’ve had, I made the initial contact and yes paid for dates.
Being sexually assertive has worked out pretty well for me, mostly because I hate sitting around feeling passive. But there are still moments where the “nothing will change in our friendship” conversation with the fellow turns into him getting super weird afterwards and not being able to maintain a friendship.
That’s usually why I’ve not slept with friends, not because they aren’t attractive, but because they don’t seem to be able to deal well with the role change.
Maybe that’s just been my circumstance. I will say the one European man I was friends with, became lovers with etc was able to go back to the “friends, respect etc” role with no problem after we didn’t want to date anymore. Maybe it’s more of an American thing?
Anyway, if you don’t make your interest known, and some man hits on another woman, that’s not being passively rejected, that’s just not trying and blaming your failure on someone else.
Ridiculous.
In all fairness when I say feminist I mean pop-feminists and blog feminists (jezabelle, and the genderspehre). I’ve been told this thing about passive rejection at least hundreds of times in debates with feminists online.
You’ll just have to trust me on it, because if you don’t trust me in good faith, taking 30 minutes to scour my history and google for where I’ve read is generally not going to be helpful anyway.
But yes, any time I’ve debated on the subject of how men take most of the rejection and risk in the gender-sphere, this has been one of the most common things I’ve heard… It’s one of the most absurd things I’ve ever heard and one of the most absurd ones.
I specifically how I’ve often mocked this argument by saying something like “Are you saying that when I walk down the street and pass 200 women on an average day (which I mostly don’t ask out our approach), are you saying I am rejecting 200 women a day – I’m rejecting 73,000 women a year !?!?”
Oh I trust you, I just wanted to read it. I may do a google. That’s just….that’s like saying that because I read the want ads for jobs and didn’t apply, I got turned down for work? WTF?
Oops, meant to reply to this here:
It’s interesting to see this discussion go back and forth.
Women do feel something negative when guys don’t approach them. They say something like, “I don’t feel pretty,” or “what’s wrong with me” or “what’s wrong with these guys.” This is a feeling of not being appreciated, of loneliness, etc.
It’s not exactly rejection, but it is real and all women experience it from time to time. We can come up with a name for it, but let me be clear that I think women are completely free to feel this way. They don’t have to be aggressive and ask guys out; that is the man’s role. I don’t think women need to change one bit or feel sorry for guys’ feelings.
Having said that, some women could benefit from being a bit more flirtatious. They would date the guys they have their eye on more often.
And men don’t? Implying that this is a female phenomenon is quite sexist.
What’s next, are you going to say women’s role is in the kitchen?
First you say:
Then you say:
Make up your mind. Do they need to change not one bit, or do they not need change one bit.
You will also notice that most men are even’t asking for fairness or 50/50. Most men would be more than thrilled if women were simply clearer and bolder in their signal giving.
Most men (even the most loneline and shy dateless ones) will say they’re not asking that women do the asking out. Most would be pleased if women were just more bold in *at least* the flirting, smiling and staring at men they like, being the first to brush a guy’s arm, hinting verbally (etc etc).
We now have a situation that’s worse than the traditional role. In the traditional role women hinted, flirted, smiled and stared at a man of their choosing, found an excuse to brush lint off his jacket, brush his hair or his jacket or ask him if he is single and then he (the man) made the overt moves.
In the 21st century as a general rule most women don’t even do the traditional feminine stuff. Most sit around stone faced and expect that a man ask them out without any single. Rousseau roulette if you will.
Go to any party or social gathering and you will notice the women are not smiling at anyone or flirting with anyone or staring at anyone or bumping at anyone (in the traditional role women at least did those things).
AlekNovy
People of both sexes feel lonely. My comment is not sexist. But that feeling is not rejection.
Women get turned on when men ask them out. Not every time, but often enough. They like confident men. Again not sexist.
I put the correct clause in my last comments that no single woman HAS to change. If they do they may benefit but they don’t need to do it out of politics to level the playing field.
You deliberately misinterpreted my comments. Your comments imply that you are frustrated. Therefore a bit angry.
But people meet dates at parties and public places often. I know I and all my female and male friends do. Society would break down into some other order if this were not happening. Please I urge you to look at things in a scale than hard all or nothing.
You can stay angry but society is unlikely to change and not based upon your arguments as you present them.
Having said all of that, I acknowledge that the Internet is too dry of a place to have discussion. I wish it were not so but truly I write from my best experience and intentions. I wish you peace.
We’ve seen and heard all of this before.
Why is that whenever someone brings up an inequality in gender roles where men take the raw deal they are angry and that oh well “society functions just fine” and “oh well it is what is”.
One could make those same points when feminists bring up feminist points and how a certain gender role hurts women “Oh well, society functions just fine” “oh well most people deal with those 10 century old roles just fine, who needs feminism”.
The reason I AM FRUSTRATED is because there’s this barrier I feel towards acknowledging EVEN AN INCH of admission that there areas where gender roles give men the raw deal.
Why is every mention of men having a worse deal met with a need to tell men to either accept it or that the disparity doesn’t exist. You will find often men don’t mind the disparity so much as the SILENCING performed on them.
Men aren’t being allowed to complain, or whine or give any displeasure over the gender role. It is the SILENCING that leads to frustration. The inabilty for men to show weakness or displeasure with roles.
This is another privilege women enjoy – the theraputic power of being able to say something is unfair towards your gender.
As do men, we don’t like insecure women either. What’s your point.
It’s all about what women want, what women need and what women need to given by virtue of being born female. This is what makes your statements sexist.
This notion that somehow wanting to be approached, validated or asked out is some sort of a female thing. It’s not.
You are sexist because you used the term WOMEN instead of the term HUMANS.
Case in point “People get turned on when asked out.”
or
“People like confident flirts or partners”.
The fact you had to make it something about women makes you sexist. By making the statement about women, you’re excluding men and implying only women deserve to be given love, appreciation, attention, and validation.
Sorry Alex, was responding to someone else in another thread and got my tabs all wrong!
Collin, I always appreciate your contributions. This article is very well-intentioned but simply not grounded in reality.
I hate rejection and so I just don’t do it so I won’t have to deal with the ultimate rejection. I am so afraid of asking a guy out and being rejected that I just won’t do it. Thus I am single. It is not just dating but not being accepted for anything can totally bring me down.
Why are you so afraid of rejection?
There are ways to open a window for a guy without really risking rejection.
Introduce yourself, ask him for his name, talk about food and entertainment, what kind of people you find attractive (make sure to list some qualities he happens to have). There’s nothing there to really reject, but you’re making it a lot easier for him to ask you out.
I don’t think you can form a complete picture of why rejection feels the way it does without mentioning the pervasive cultural attitude that your attractiveness says much if not everything about your worth as a person.
I’ve seen this comment before, but I have a really hard time understanding the sentiment.
I’ve always seen things like what your job is, where you went to school, how many degrees you have, what your salary is, etc. as being at least as important, if not more so, than how attractive you are.
I just want to be clear, this definitely goes for both genders. I know guys who skipped out on girls when it turns out they never finished college, and girls who skipped out on guys when it turned out that masters in ecology qualified them to work at Starbucks.
Does physical attraction count for something? Sue. But sites like Ivydate wouldn’t exist if going to Harvard didn’t also count for something.
I didn’t mean that physical attraction was a big part of people chosing a romantic parnter (though it is) but rather that people’s ability to attract a romantic partner in any way is a big factor in how society judges them overall
Ah, okay. So, in general, your ability to attract a mate (regardless of how you do it), is a big part of your overall value.
That makes a lot more sense to me.
“In the end, what matters most isn’t women’s opinion of you – what matters is your opinion of you. When you’re comfortable with who you are – insecurities and all – you still won’t like rejection, but you’ll shrug it off and keep going.”
You are 1000% correct. When I am told “No”, I just go on to the next one. I know soon a woman is going to say “Yes.” I am a very bold and confident man. Just keep it moving.
Yes!
Rejection only sucks if you give a shit.
That’s why assholes who don’t give a shit about anybody or anything can laugh it off and move on quickly to the next random woman they don’t give a shit about either, while the sort of guy who might give this blog a glance – who gives a shit about being a Good Man, treats women like human beings instead of pieces of meat, and only asks out the ones he actually likes – will be more inclined to reflect on why the person with whom he thought he’s established some sort of rapport Doesn’t See Him That Way.
If the answer is “He was attractive and interesting. I just wasn’t interested”, i.e. she just didn’t like him enough, is that not the very definition of personal?
It’s easy to say there are plenty more fish in the sea if all you have to do to get a date is leave the house, smile occasionally and resist saying “no” as a default setting. If you actually have to put in some effort and you’re striking out 100% of the time, the confidence women find so attractive may not last forever.
A lot of the time when women aren’t interested it has nothing to do with you. Maybe she has a boyfriedn already, or her dog died, or she’s stressed out from work and hasn’t had a decent night’s sleep for week, or whatever.
Or she’s obsessing over someone who doesn’t even know she exists. Women do that too you know.
Here’s my story of rejection: \
I asked a girl “out” when I was 12. She said yes, and I was on top of the world for a day. (At that time “going out” meant a bike ride to get a Slurpee, with maybe a kiss). The next day, she told me that she did it as a joke.
The problem I have with the idea of confidence and “believing in yourself” is that often some of the worst people have the most confidence in themselves. I’m not going into a Nice GuyTM rant because I’m not even talking about PUAs and Alphas. i’m talking about people who are so sure of themselves that they think they can do no wrong. Donald Trump, Snooki, Mitt Romney – all people with lots of confidence.
The fact is that sometimes I’m convinced that my self-doubt is the only thing that has kept me from being a jerk, and that’s a scary proposition.
I think you’ve got that backwards.
Rejections of romantic/sexual approaches would not suck nearly so much were it not for that minority of people who chose to act offended that you approached them at all. It’s hard not to internalize those sorts of rejections, and I’d guess most guys over 20 have experienced at least a couple.
Yeah that doesn’t make it easier.
How can we really know whether someone wants to be approached, before we ask? There’s a lot of talk about the importance of communication when it comes to sex, but when approaching we’re expected to just guess?
It’s about body language, though that’s definitely not always easy to read. But it’s also about context. Are you just looking for sex? Well then chances are the place to approach someone is a club or bar, and not on the street or the subway. Are you just looking for a chat with anyone, and sex has nothing to do with it? Well then, most places are fine for that, though any place where people are in transit is less likely to work out. If you’re trying to get from point A to point B, sometimes the last thing you want is to pause somewhere in the middle and interact with someone.
Questions like this often make me think that men are portraying themselves as like, sex-hunters, or something. As if all they do all day is look around for some tail. Which is a disservice to men, I think.
“Questions like this often make me think that men are portraying themselves as like, sex-hunters, or something. As if all they do all day is look around for some tail. Which is a disservice to men, I think.”
Perhaps you should take a closer look at your gendered assumptions. There’s more to relationships than sex and conversation. Think of all the things women look for in a relationship. Why would men be any different?
The chances of a hetero relationship working out are the same for men and women (it takes two to tango). However, the women almost never approach men, so the men have to take on that burden. Few men know what it’s like to get hit on by someone they’re not attracted to, and fear that they won’t take no for an answer. Few women really understand what it’s like to get rejected over and over again, while being fairly sure that you’ll always be alone.
Is same-sex dating this screwed up?
Female same-sex dating is just as screwed up. There are successful couples just as there are in straightland, but I personally know two bi girls who’ve been waiting for each other to make the first move for about six months now, and I’m betting that happens quite a lot, albeit perhaps (?) not so much in exclusively lesbian spaces where the participants carry less heteronormative baggage with them.
As for gay men, I don’t know any well enough to comment. They’re too busy just fucking each other.
I’m sure your comment was made in jest
But as for gay men… rejection stings us to the core as well… not all of us are just too busy fucking each other (wink). I’ve spent many a night with my heart in my stomach, lamenting just the tiniest rejection from another man… Ugh, the pain just cuts so so deep.
Approaching strangers is kind of like using “cold calling” to sell life insurance. You will piss off a lot of people who didn’t want to be bothered. A lot of people will hang up on you. It’s inevitable. If you are someone who gets irritated at telemarketers, you can probably understand why, if you approach strange women, some will react negatively. I don’t think you should take it personally.
That’s not the issue – the issue is that feminists are now passing laws to declare this a crime. In britain they just adopted laws whereby they’ve effectivelly made flirting illegal and punishable in all locations and areas.
- Again, we men don’t mind that the vast majority of women are lazy and wait for the men to do all the work.
- We don’t even mind the harsh rejections (telemarketer analogy)
However couple that with the tripled binds caused by:
a) Women not giving clear siginals (i.e. women force men to risk harassing a woman, merely to get a date).
b) Feminists claiming that men making a move without clear permission or signal are “proto-rapists” (re rape culture)… Which if you actually followed that feminist theory, you will be celibate for life, because women don’t actually give clear unambiguous signals very often.
c) Being deemed a nice guy TM if you don’t make a move anyway.
Screwed if you, screwed if you don’t… And zero gratitude from women. I have never ever ever ever ever in my life met a woman who expressed gratitude that men do all the risk-taking and humiliation and courtship. Continually see ones who mock, ridicule, humiliate and demean men for it.
Again, men don’t mind doing all the work. As long as it’s defined what we CAN do and what we CANT do upfront. Not living in this kafkaesque nightmare where rules are made up as you go, and you aren’t allowed to know the rules upfront, but if you break them you are in the same realm as a rapist.
But you are required to make these actions (despite not knowing which are the right ones) in order to avoid the odd punishment of being called the loner NiceGuyTM creep who doesn’t make moves…
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t…
“That’s not the issue – the issue is that feminists are now passing laws to declare this a crime. In britain they just adopted laws whereby they’ve effectivelly made flirting illegal and punishable in all locations and areas.”
The what? Link?
I believe this is your experience. Man, it’s just so not mine. Growing up? Everyone flirted. People asked each other out. Girls asked out guys. People started coming out and were supported by us. In college, I pretty much was like…”You, come here, help me learn about ahem ahem…” I know women who asked their husbands to marry them. I know I’ve asked out MANY men, paid for MANY dates and I don’t suppose I’ve ever been thanked either.
So I guess I was (and my friends were) very lucky to have grown up in the 70′s and 80′s and coming of age then and in the 90′s and never finding this particular nightmare you detail. I’m really sad to keep hearing that it’s like this, when it wasn’t for me, for my husband, for our friends, for people I poll on my FB…it sounds really shitty and lonely.
I wonder what was so different in our cases. Timing? The arts? Subcultures that just accepted non normative behaviors?
I actually remember the 90s (I was just a kid, but my older cousins took me to parties). Everyone flirted with everyone, groups chatted to each other. Groups talked to groups and mingled with each other…
Since the mid 90s people are just completely asocial and hostile. Past high-school most parties are very tightly-knit groups of only-males or only-females where nobody approaches anyone all night. And when they do, the women usually harshly shut down the men with rude comments.
In my generation the attitude amongst women is “rapist until proven otherwise”. And women don’t send men signals, don’t stare and smile at men (etc etc…). Not even in semi-social environments. The only way people ever still meet is ONLY school/tight niches (think hobby clubs). These have always been the primary way relationships used to form, but they’re now the ONLY way. The only people who ever date strangers any more are PUAs and sociopaths.
This has been happening from my generation onwards (I’m late 20s)… If you go ahead and dig up the stats on sexuality you will see that for the past two decades virginity rates have been exploding. No, I’m not kidding… Younger people have less and less sex for longer and longer. We have developed a culture where it it’s getting harder and harder for young people to meet.
And the rates are still increasing (the virginity rates among students increased between 2010 and 2012 even further).
Re: UK Feminists Outlawing Flirting
Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111953/British-men-accused-rape-abroad-stand-trial-UK-tried-abroad.html#ixzz1obwAVDUa
Not vague at all… Now approaching and asking women out will be a potential crime in all areas and contexts, not just in workplaces. No, this is not april’s fools…
Can someone please explain to me how this doesn’t outlaw all of human mating? The way people get together is that the one person takes a risk and makes a move to see if the person responds to it (tries to brush their hair, stares into the person’s eyes, winks, throws an innuendo, tries to step a little closer to the person to test intimate space)… This is how all of human mating works… But now it is illegal.
How are men and women supposed to get together? Write written forms asking for permission to flirt? But actually delivering the written form would itself be a form of harassment lol
Yeah, that’ just seems…well quite sad. I don’t know Alex. I guess find a city and group of people in your age range where you see a lot of happy attitudes, or date older, or…well, I work with folks on a college campus and I don’t see this kind of tension. Maybe I’m just missing something.
I’m sorry.
I wasn’t asking you for advice. My dating life is fine thank you very much, but I’m privileged as I’m part of a hobby where we travel and meet hundreds of like-minded people from many countries, meet actors, dancers, producers and generally work with media projects and celebrities. You can say it’s like having an extended social circle with tens of thousands of members.
That doesn’t change the scenario of what happens in the typical club or party out there in terms of strangers. This isn’t about me or julie, it’s about the general society out there. Check out those stats I told you about.
In this generation men and women simply do NOT flirt with one another in clubs, pubs etc (in the usa/most of europe). This is why the PUA cult was borne out.
I mean this is such basic reality, I think it’s a mismatch of reality to even discuss it. Go into any club or bar and notice if the women stare and smile at ANYONE at all.
Stand around and observe what happens to the rare man who decides to walk up to a group of women and say something.
I mean, this is a total mismatch what you are saying. I’ve interviewed literally hundreds of men and asked them if they have EVER had a woman ask them out EVER even once. I only had one american Bass player say he got asked out ONCE in his entire life (I’m not counting high-school, most people had those experiences in HS).
This comment was in response to Julie above who said
Also be sure to google for and find the articles talking about virginity rates at ivy league schools and campuses and how they are increasing. Numbers paint a better picture then whether you “see the tension” or not…
Hey, I wasn’t trying to step on you. Totally not. Just hearing what you were saying and it sounds harsh. Like…shit, I don’t want that for anyone.
I’m sad for that generation because flirting and dancing and sex and joy is a wonderful thing. I even got to experience it after the dawn of HIV, and it’s shitty that there are people out there who didn’t. So don’t think I’m patronizing you, I’m not.
I was just trying to connect.
The problem here is that most people live in a mathematically definable social circle. In other words, there are only a certain number of people that they are going to interact with socially because of their interests, profession, geography, or social status. Once a guy gets rejected by a small number of women in that circle, they basically have to stop trying because they are going to perceived as a desperate creeper by both women AND men if they continue, That leaves hitting on strangers in the supermarket or bars (thus the popularity of PUA), or the hopeless, humiliating con game of Match.com. I would be interested in hearing the author’s view on the guy who feels positive enough about himself that he knows that the object of his affection will eventually realize how great he is, if he is persistent enough. I think it’s called “stalking”.
“The problem here is that most people live in a mathematically definable social circle. In other words, there are only a certain number of people that they are going to interact with socially because of their interests, profession, geography, or social status. Once a guy gets rejected by a small number of women in that circle, they basically have to stop trying because they are going to perceived as a desperate creeper by both women AND men ”
Most people perceive it this way. But its pretty easy to widen or alter your social circle by joining a meetup, club, event, meeting friends of friends, chatting online, even going to a bar.
“That leaves hitting on strangers in the supermarket or bars (thus the popularity of PUA), or the hopeless, humiliating con game of Match.com”
Try Eharmony then…its better.
“Most people perceive it this way. But its pretty easy to widen or alter your social circle by joining a meetup, club, event, meeting friends of friends, chatting online, even going to a bar.”
Friends of friends is exactly what he was saying – if the friends of your friends’ friends are all either taken or the same sex as you, it won’t do you much good.
A lot of women say they don’t want to be “harassed” (read: approached) at meetups, clubs, or events. They say they don’t want men hitting on them when chatting online. There’s a ton of posts on this site about that sort of thing, all of them telling men not to do it.
That leaves going to a bar and hitting on strangers, thus the popularity of PUA. You’re not supposed to do that either, of course.
“Try Eharmony then…its better.”
Eharmony, and other such dating sites aren’t very good. Sometimes it tells you that there is nobody in the whole world who’s a match for you. Other times you message 750 women and get no responses back, at all. Not exactly very encouraging.
It seems some of the commenters can’t seem to get passed the initial rejection, it takes some time to learn how to read body language and signs. If I talk to a guy and he is giving short answers and not looking at me I’m assuming he isn’t interested ( not attracted , has a girlfriend), that is not rejection. I move on. I need to say if you don’t learn some basic skills of approach and reading signs you might be a nice person that comes across in all sorts of ways that aren’t good. Also if someone is nice to you, it doesn’t mean they are interested .I understand this can be confusing if you have been a shy or an introvert your whole life .
I consider myself confident , anyone that meets me usually comments on my confidence. Just about all the guys I have dated, have at one time or another, told me how hot and sexy I was, only to eventually reject me. There reasons very. Most of them were cowards ,letting me fill in the blanks, some I have had to actually drag out their rejection .( Most these guys from the start had red flags , I ignored them ) This has taught me the importance of letting someone know as soon as I am not interested and why. I try not to go into great detail, however I am honest about my feelings. Some of these guys have been “nice guys “. One of which was so nice to me I dated him for a month even though I didn’t feel we were a match. I enjoyed his company and I had hopes that my feeling would grow. I have learned since that particular person that we just know that someone isn’t right for us , it’s important to honor that. Which rejection is worse the one after a initial meeting, three dates , a month, a year?
When we want someone in our life it it hard to remember we have a say in who we choose to be with if we did we who are often rejected might be the ones doing more of the rejecting.
Thoughtful post, speakeasy. I was standing on the sidewalk after a cultural event not too long ago, with a group of attractive women of various ages and orientations, both friends and people I had just met. For some reason, they were talking about their criteria for rejecting or accepting the overtures of an interested party. There was a general focus on looks, clothing, social status (ie. money), and personality, but none of things that you mentioned in your first paragraph came up at all. I casually interjected that I had to settle for any woman that would have me. Talk about a conversation killer! They all gave me a look like that was something that they had never considered possible, and then they all had somewhere else they had to be right away.
Oh yes JP , I can see how that would be a conversation killer! We all have choices, it’s our self doubt that is the problem. Most people have it ,some are better at hiding it then others . I have learned to not put my insecurities on display.
The “nice guy ” I mentioned , was from an online dating site , he sent the initial email that I found friendly as apposed to creepy , while I wasn’t crazy attracted to his pictures ,we had a fun email exchange that went on for three days then he asked to meet. I agreed. When I walked into the bar he sat in closed off manner , barely looking at me, I knew right then and he later confirmed, that he felt I would not give him the time of day ( even though I showed up looking just like my pictures). I decided right away if I was going to get to who this person was I was going to have to make him feel comfortable. i did and he relaxed. We ended up having nice evening. The problems with him are hard to explain , in the end everything he did was to “keep me”, something that I have experienced in the past, that doesn’t work. I believe there is a girl out there for him, it wasn’t me, thats just how it is.
I guess my point is don’t assume , try to treat each person you meet as someone new not like every person that has rejected you . Be engaged , try not to let the inner voice take over. Maybe just try to enjoy the company of someone instead of mentally setting yourself up for an opportunity to be rejected. I used to go out to meet someone, now I go out to have fun with friends. As lame as this sounds , learn to like yourself, it will actually make you more attractive.
The problem is that is almost impossible when you’ve suffered from a long long long string of crushing rejections. In my experience, rejection gets worse each additional time, not better. Whether we like it or not our experiences shape who we are and if your experience in dating was “I’ve asked out 100 women and not even one of them has said yes to a date” then you’re going to lack confidence and want to make it so the first girl that says yes works out at least a bit. It is like telling a man who’s been walking in a desert with no water for days to take it easy on the water.
Agreed.
I’ve tried to keep my spirits high but when you have literal decades worth of rejections its hard. And I know that the “all you gotta do is believe in yourself” crowd means well but it just rings hollow because (at least from what I notice) is that is usually coming from people that have at least some measure of success.
Its like the guy that’s “loved and lost” trying to tell the guy that’s “never loved at all” that love isn’t that big of a deal.
And that’s what it comes down to for a lot of people.
speakeasy, Believe me, I have a pretty high opinion of myself, as do my many friends of both genders. It’s just that none of those friends are women who have any interest in having a relationship with me, at least not lately. The comment I made to those women was a bit of a reality check for them, and it was also true. There was absolutely no possibility that I was going to get anything besides drinking buddy status going with any of them. I think that good looking people assume, wrongly, that people that are not so good looking are going to find someone down in their league. A very attractive person has so many more opportunities in this area, that it is hard for them to imagine someone who doesn’t have any, or at least very few. It is like someone who says “I don’t care about money.” You never hear a really poor person saying that. In these articles about dating the way people look never gets the attention that it deserves, because to some degree, it is an intractable problem. You can redistribute money, but you can’t redistribute looks. People can donate time and money to the less fortunate, but no one is going to donate a roll in the hay to someone that hasn’t had one in years, no matter how bad they feel. It’s not fair, and can’t be made fair no matter how many “love yourself” bromides that people throw out there. Anyway, have a great day!
I want to go back to your original comment to me. Everyone should have a some sort criteria , mine is more about style then looks, personality, and genuine interest in me as a person. A turn-off to me is if someone is only into me cause they think I’m hot, this means they only wish to have sex with me. If someone says they have no criteria I guess that raises an instant red flag. That being said looks don’t hurt in the pursuit of love or sex. They get you in the door, looks with nothing to back it up are only good for girls that only want to be with someone that is hot. My girlfriend was recently looked up by someone she met a long time ago , he is an extremely hot working actor now but when she met him he wasn’t hot, so nothing made him memorable , she didn’t recall meeting him. They went out and she came back saying he was hot but she found him boring. Then she moved to LA and they went out again , she again felt bored but all her friends were freaking out telling her how hot he was , that she was crazy if she didn’t date him. This is how some girls think. The reality is though, if they are hot and boring , then their just boring and the person that staying is probably equally as boring or shallow.
“Believe me, I have a pretty high opinion of myself, as do my many friends of both genders. It’s just that none of those friends are women who have any interest in having a relationship with me, at least not lately.”
Are you online dating? I think online dating is a self-esteem killer and also distorts our ideas of how much dating action we should be getting in the real world. I haven’t been asked on a date since leaving online dating , that was in October. I think in a year of online dating I was asked out on one “real world ” date .
As lame as this sounds , learn to like yourself, it will actually make you more attractive.
I think the problem is this.
How can you learn to like yourself when you have a life time of evidence that you are an unlikable person?
How can you feel attractive when you have a life time of evidence that you are not attractive?
Its almost like folks in situations like that missed out on some fundamental thoughts and beliefs when they were younger and now that they are older they are trying to pick them up. In short an old dog trying to learn new (to them) tricks.
speakeasy, I tried online dating years ago and it was a total buzzkill. Never again, at least not until the day I decide to spend perfectly good money to be decieved and humiliated by perfect strangers again. I actually go out a lot, and am involved in community activities. Last night was First Friday, and I went to a couple of gallery openings, an opening and party at a vintage clothing store, saw a couple of bands, and went dancing in a disco (I am a pretty good dancer who never hesitates to get on the floor) and hit a couple of bars. I met a lot of nice people but the only phone number I got was from a guy that wants to do an art project of some kind with me. I passed out a couple numbers to women I had nice conversations with, but as usual they probably did not make it out of the ladies room waste basket. I was talking to a woman that is around my age in a bar about cycling, but a younger guy (by a lot) sat down and she was all over him. She passed him her phone number before he could finish a PBR. He thought it was all a little comical. Me, not so much. So am am hardly averse to getting out and socializing, and I pride myself on my manners and conversational ability. I’m just sick of being alone every fricking night. I try very hard not to let it ruin my usually sunny disposition, but it has gone on so long that I am beginning to lose hope. But like Scarlett O’Hara said, tomorrow is another day.
I’m an interested and avid dancer since more than 15 years. (Not salsa, but other forms of couples-dancing that are quite popular around here)
I partake in my friends’ family lives, often accompanying their kids with public school days, homework, and spare time activities where I’m also sometimes engaged as a group leader and meet lots of other parents and get lots of appreciation for what I do with the kids.
I have and have always had and partaken in several outdoor types of interests and hobbies. (Since you wrote an advice somewhere else to “get out and get a hobby!”)
I’m in pretty good shape, 5’10 and about 145 lbs, not exactly the muscular type but I can benchpress my own weight, dead-lift my double weight, and run 6 km in half an hour.
I admit to not being an outstanding dresser. But I don’t think I’m exceptionally bad either, or worse than average. Usually a pair of sneakers or black shoes, a pair of good-fitting jeans, and a nice shirt or T-shirt.
I’ve been living in a big city, in the suburbs, and on the countryside, and having met all kinds of people.
I’m fairly social and outspoken, and considered by my friends to be above average intelligent and knowledgeable on a wide variety of sometimes surprising subjects. I don’t however like to talk smack just for the love of hearing my own voice, but instead usually adhere to the old saying of “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all”.
I’m a patient and considerate lover. With an, according to available statistics, slightly larger-than-average penis…
But, it doesn’t seem to matter what I do. I have yet to meet a woman to express (or in some way reciprocate) a direct attraction. And the number of brief encounters I’ve had during the last 30 years can be counted on the fingers on one hand.
I’m not really sure what I want to say or why I write this. I just guess that your checklist of connect-the-dots-to-be-attractive kinda stirred something within me…
I hope you are enjoying life more than I do.
I think of dating as social darwinism with a vengeance. All you have to do is question the status quo – even within yourself – and you lose instantly.
No, no, no. Rejection works more like a smart investment strategy. Imagine if you made investments in two stocks in the stock market. You bet that both will go up. One goes down however. You get out of that when it loses 15%. The other goes up and doubles! Yes!
So when you get accepted, you win big because you end up on a date and maybe a great relationship. When you lose, you get out after 5 to 10 minutes. Yes it is annoying. But it is not a huge catastrophic loss. With that attitude, you can stay in the dating game for a longer time. Eventually you can turn that into a reinterpretation that if a girl rejects you then you can be happy that she is not for you. But that takes time and only after you completely accept that it is the only strategy that allows you to play to win.
If you accept the emotional hit of getting rejected you can win the emotional high of dating.
Also, the emotional hit of getting rejected demonstrates that you have empathy; that you can read other people’s emotions. If you only cared about yourself in a purely selfish way, you wouldn’t be upset about what was in other people’s minds. But if you are empathic you can connect with people. And the proof of that is that it will lead to a lot of friendships and good relationships.
This article really makes me wonder if the author really has any clear understanding of their own field of study, psychology.
The thing with me is that I dont just find any and every girl attractive. And by attractive I dont just mean physically. I mean sure I find many girls physically attractive but I’m interested in more than just that.
So when you dont just fall for anyone, the one’s you do fall for are extremely important to you. I am currently madly in love with a girl who is my best friend and she tells me i’m hers too. She rejected me a while back and I told myself i’d rather have her in my life as a friend than not have her in my life at all. She’s currently engaged but her fiancee is from out of town. We see each other everyday yet I was rejected in favor of him who she sees maybe every 3 months. That obviously brings up feelings of inadequasy and low self worth.
The first time she went out of town to see him, she came back with scars on her neck which looked like hickies. I didn’t ask her about them because the thought of her being intimate with someone else just amplifies those crappy feelings.
Recently he came to town to visit her and so i didnt see her for a while. When i saw her again she had what looked like hikkies on her neck again. She told me later that when her fiancee gets angry he gets violent and those scars on her neck are because of that. I’ve pleaded with her to call off her wedding because i’m afraid that after she marries him he’ll abuse her. But she still loves him and she still wants to marry him and I ask myself if I really even have any self worth. I mean she rejected me for someone who gets violent with her.
I know my flaws. I’m not the smartest person around and I dont have a fantastic paying job and I know i’m not the best looking guy around but I don’t think i’m too bad. But being rejected by someone who you love and who means so much to you feels like your some defective machine or at least thats how I feel.
So many things I want to say to you right now. I sense your worry and fear for this person you care for very much. And if she is being abused you are right to worry and fear.
There is a lot of complexity to what might be going on for her, and I really would ask that you not internalize her choices as a commentary on you or your worth. Her issues with him (and with herself and the cycle she might be in) has nothing to do with your worth as a person. She needs help and support to identify why she is staying in a cycle of abuse (if that indeed is what is happening) and you also need support perhaps to disentangle yourself from her at least in the romantic sense.
There is a lot going on here, and I wish you well and hope you can start to separate your own worth as a person from choices she is making that have nothing to do with you.
I second what Julie Gillis says. It is sad to see somebody engage in self-destructive behavior or allow themselves to stay in any kind of problem situation due to immature thinking. I hope this woman does not suffer too much abuse before she gets out.
But you’ve done all that you can do, which is point out to her that the evidence of abuse can be seen by others, and point out that she has other options in her life.
Having said that, both she and you are stuck in thinking that your feelings are god-like super-messages. In other words, we are told by others, and we tell ourselves, that our feelings trump anything else. After all, when we have to eat, we eat. When we have to sleep, we sleep.
But when we have to love, we don’t have to do it, we have a choice.
We are told by others, and we tell ourselves, that if we yearn to love someone, then we should follow those feelings because they will lead to true love. Well, sometimes they do. But sometimes they don’t.
I loved this open-hearted hippie girl who smoked pot everyday, but she wasn’t the right girl for me. It broke my heart, but the best decision I made was to go through the hard work to find someone else.
But you’re not doing that by pining away for this woman. And she’s not doing that by sticking with this guy with anger issues. It sucks when the feelings of love don’t go in the right direction, but you can’t let the feeling control you.
Good luck to both of you, from the source of free advice, the Internet.
And then some women wonder why psychopaths and socipaths have an easier time getting laid and dating.
The traditional gender dating script requires you to LITERALLY feel no emotion or care what women think of you AT THE MOMENT of rejection.
Do you folks not see the issue with this? How does one not care at the exact moment of rejection, but then care about her and her opinion BEFORE and AFTER the rejection?
Do you people not get why so many guys turn into emotion-less aholes? I’m sorry to inform you of this – humans are generally made to be consistent. You either care about what women want and think, or you don’t.
Guys who care don’t get laid (due to the sexist dating script enforced by women stuck in stone age mentality)
Guys who do don’t care do get laid (because not caring is the only way to rack up the massive amount of rejections women demand a man go through in order to have an active love or sex life).
There are two ways to solve this issue
1) End female laziness and have women do their fair shore of the move making and rejection taking
OR (because number 1 will never work, a lot of people are attached to keeping the privilege of female laziness)
2)Teach women to give more blatant signals of interest. Let’s be realistic, women are waaaaaay too subtle in terms of letting guys know they’re interested. If women in society were taught to be blatant about being interested… then men could still do all the work, but there would be a lot less rejection to go around. There would be a lot less bitter men. And you would no longer have to turn into a caring-less sociopath to get laid.
It’s interesting to see this discussion go back and forth.
Women do feel something negative when guys don’t approach them. They say something like, “I don’t feel pretty,” or “what’s wrong with me” or “what’s wrong with these guys.” This is a feeling of not being appreciated, of loneliness, etc.
It’s not exactly rejection, but it is real and all women experience it from time to time. We can come up with a name for it, but let me be clear that I think women are completely free to feel this way. They don’t have to be aggressive and ask guys out; that is the man’s role. I don’t think women need to change one bit or feel sorry for guys’ feelings.
Having said that, some women could benefit from being a bit more flirtatious. They would date the guys they have their eye on more often.
I used to flirt a lot , if I saw someone I liked I let it be known, I never saw anything wrong with this. Unfortunately I have had friends get pissed at me for flirting with guys because it took attention away from them. Just a year ago I had a huge fall out with a friend for talking to a guy at the beach ( I initiated the conversation then invited him and his friend to join us) at forty-one years old and single I’m getting shit for talking to a guy, she was actually yelling at me and crying, that was the last time I saw her or the guy . I’m not friends with girls like that anymore but I’m pretty sure girls get a lot of pressure from their friends to not show interest in anyone outside of their group. It’s unfortunate and incredibly immature but a reality I have experienced first hand my entire adult life.
Reading these comments is very interesting. I especially identify with AlexNovk’s thoughts about how unfriendly and unsociable people are when they go out these days.
I remember high school and early college; me and another guy would go out, see some girls, go talk to them, flirt…it was about meeting people and having fun.
As soon as college was done that stopped cold. I’m 30 and I haven’t had a real date in a long time (although I have hooked up with girls from time to time which is all I can get).
Going out to clubs and bars is pretty much fail. Maybe a drunk girl will find you attractive and go home with you – feels good if you’re lonely but forget about seeing her ever again and be extra-careful with the condom – but you can forget about flirting with girls and having a good time.
When I do approach a woman who’s my age, get flirty with her I encounter venom and rage that is quite honestly scary. I remember rejection all the time when I was younger but never like this. The kind of things even a rude person wouldn’t say in public, the sort of things that I wouldn’t even say if I were in a fist fight and taunting the other person.
The one thing I have noticed is that the girls I meet who are in their late teens/early 20′s and the ladies who are over 40 are all very nice to me. So maybe it’s just a generational thing. The ‘Nintendo Generation’ is too full of itself and all thumbs when it comes to socializing.
Rejection, romantic or otherwise, hurts so much because it is a rejection of who we are as a person. It has the potential to destroy a person’s self-esteem beyond repair, but if the rejected person has a degree of self-confidence, they will rebound. Such confidence is built in the formative years of a person’s life. Romantically speaking, if an individual has had positive reactions from those they are attracted to, being accepted, then that person’s self-confidence will have a strong foundation against rejection later on in life. Conversely, if someone has been rejected too often in their younger years, the self-confidence that is needed to attract a partner will not be there or be infinitesimal. These experiences can have a great impact on a person’s life, not only in one’s love life but also work, recreation, etc. I remember one experience that I believe has affected my life and the resultant lack of romance in it. I was in my 7th grade English class, sitting in the first column, second row. A friend, who was sitting in the same column, and I were talking before class began, when the subject of girlfriends came up. He asked if I had one, to which I replied no. He then proceeded to ask each girl, starting in our column and going through each one front to back, if they would go out with me. Each one said no, very harshly and with a look of disgust on their face. I recall how low and sub-human I felt after that, and it’s a feeling that has plagued me since. I know I shouldn’t let it bother me, being 28 years old and having some positive experiences with women since then. Hell, I’ve had good feedback from women I’ve spoke to and/or dated; I’ve been told that I’m a handsome guy, intelligent, physically appealing, and I have a lot to offer a woman. Nonetheless, it is difficult for me to forget such a thing and be confident, because that occurrence played a major role in formulating my self-belief system, and sadly, that system is predicated on the belief that women simply do not want me.
Drew – Just wondering what it is you did to “turn it around” since I would NEVER, ever approach a woman. If she wants me, she can approach! I cannot imagine going up to any of them, to feel like a dog chasing a car down the street. You managed to do something to change your outlook!