Mark Radcliffe laments that the guy who makes the great catch in the long run doesn’t always make a great first impression.
I’ll admit, I’m a huge TV fan these days. Not the reality-show garbage, but the ones with genuinely well-crafted writing. The last few years, I think you could make the case that there’s better writing on TV than on film, and actors like Alec Baldwin, Keifer Sutherland, Glenn Close, Steve Buscemi and Holly Hunter seem to agree, based on the roles they’re choosing. Here, the human condition is finally getting proper representation.
One of my favorite TV comedies is How I Met Your Mother, which follows the romantic misadventures of several 20-somethings in New York. Two of the male leads are Ted (Josh Radnor) and Barney (played brilliantly by Neal Patrick Harris). Together, they represent polar opposites in the male dating pool—Ted is earnest and idealistic, looking for “the one,” Barney is the seasoned player simply out for the score.
In the pilot episode, Ted finds himself head over heels in love with the captivating Robin, and he’s clumsily confessed “I love you” on their very first date. It’s done. Over. He’s crossed the line and Robin is completely freaked out. It’s a situation the calm and collected Barney would never have found himself in. But here’s Ted’s response to her after he’s out on the sidewalk, attempting damage control:
“You know what? I’m done being single, I’m not good at it. Look, obviously you can’t tell a woman you just met that you love her, but it sucks that you can’t. I’ll tell you something though, if a woman, not you, just some hypothetical woman, were to bear with me through all this, I think I’d make a damn good husband, because that’s the stuff I’d be good at. Stuff like making her laugh and being a good father and walking her five hypothetical dogs.”
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It was a scene that struck deep into my heart, both as a fellow romantic idealist and someone who has unfortunately said “too much, too soon” more times in his own life than he cares to admit. Regardless of what you think of the show, it touches on what I consider to be an essential truth of dating:
The guy who’s a great catch in the long run? He doesn’t always make a great first impression.
And the guy who does make a great first impression? In the bar, or wherever? He’s usually an asshole once you get him home and away from the spotlight.
There’s a big emphasis on first impressions in the dating world. We’re lead to believe that you’ve gotta have crazy chemistry right off the bat for things to work. But the truth is often that the flame that burns brightest at first burns out pretty quickly.
And, conversely, it’s the ones that take a little time to catch that can burn the longest.
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The essential problem with why quality people don’t always connect with each other is that the place where most couples meet—the bar, or some other equivalent of a fleeting, chance meet-up in a loud, public venue with lots of distractions, has nothing to do with the real world in which couples live—in the quietude of home, or the car, or the hospital as someone is ill, or giving birth, or attending a loved one.
And so the guy who performs well in the bar might have none of the skills he’ll be required to have once you’re deeply into a relationship, like attentiveness, listening, consideration, empathy, respectfulness, thoughtfulness, caring and patience.
But the guy who’s got all of those qualities? He probably hasn’t spent the hours on the social circuit that it takes to be instantly charming, confident and funny to a complete stranger he just met at the bar.
The bar is a performance hall.
The home is reality.
The bar is where guys who are charming but shallow, inconsiderate and downright selfish can completely hide their demerits just long enough to get a woman home and undressed.
The home is where it matters. But unfortunately no one meets their future wife hanging out in their home. They’ve got to go out into the world. To where you can meet someone you don’t know yet. Where, if you’re focused on more important things, you might not be so skilled.
Because if you are a person of true spirit, one who believes in love, who aches for it, and who can perceive it all in someone else they’ve just met, you often are so forthcoming with your feelings that you commit that one sin that can be the kiss of death—appearing too eager or desperate.
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I’ve heard hundreds of my female friends talk about wanting a guy who’s a supportive and trustworthy soul, with a heart of gold, a great sense of humor, a kind heart, a courageous mind, who will listen to them, care about what they’re feeling and be completely transparent about his feelings. But those very same characteristics will make them run for the hills if thrown out there all at once. They’ll simply walk away. And instead go home with a guy who will lack all of those qualities, but be casual, confident and not too eager (because he genuinely doesn’t care about them) when bellied up to the bar with his wallet open.
Now, before the protests start, I acknowledge—the two can co-exist; the guy who’s a pillar of morality can also be charming and funny and confident in the bar. But not always. Sometimes the guy who’s the equivalent father of the year will be the guy who’s a bit of awkward on first brush. He won’t have the funniest line. Or the loudest voice that everyone’s paying attention to. Or the brightest smile. And unfortunately the ladies won’t always notice him. Or they’ll notice him but write him off as lacking that mysterious X-factor, or ‘shark’ gene.
But meanwhile, that guy who is the funniest/ loudest/ most charming guy in the bar who has your attention? He’s not gonna be there for her tomorrow night. He’ll be back at the bar again, trying to give another girl that same impression.
Because being “on” in a bar is a skill in itself. It takes years to become completely charming, magnetic and at ease amid strangers in a noisy room. It’s almost like becoming a standup comic. But do you really want a guy who’s spent all that time honing those skills? Because if he has, lord knows what he’s not spent his time doing. Volunteering for a local charity? Being a supportive friend? Becoming a good cook? Managing his finances? Being a good uncle? Calling his mother?
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So here’s to the Teds of the world.
The ones with a true soul, who are out there living their lives with pure purpose, with passion, following wherever the heart takes them, professionally, socially, romantically. The Barneys might take the early lead in the chase for the girl of your dreams, but hang in there. He’ll be found in time. And she’ll come looking for something with a little more substance.
And you’ll be there.
Just try to wait at least till the second date before you tell her you love her.
Your wife, your future kids and the world in general will be forever in your debt.
About Mark Radcliffe
Excellent piece, Mark, thank you!
I agree with the title of this post, ie the that the world needs more Teds than Barneys, but I disagree with the black or white division of men into Ted & Barney categories. In college I had a friend who was always complaining that women would choose “charismatic bad boys” over “quiet nice guys” like him. I listened to this for years, and never had the guts to tell him that the problem wasn’t women… the problem was him. He was quiet, yes, but that didn’t automatically make him a nice guy — many guys who think they are “nice guys” actually aren’t, in part because they don’t strive to improve their ability to communicate and support their friends and partners. This particular friend was actually a really hard guy to like — rude, self-centered, and really adversarial and difficult to talk to, even when you’d known him for years. He’s neither a Barney nor a Ted.
One of my best friends now is the opposite… a guy who can confidently approach any woman at any bar and fare very well, and who also happens to be one of the nicest, most sincere and caring people I’ve ever known. He’s more of a Ted than a Barney, but based on the logic of this article he should be dismissed as a Barney.
My point, if I have to boil it down, is that Teds should be careful about vilifying men who might appear to be Barneys, and should instead look at themselves for areas where they can grow and get better at connecting to people, whether romantically or otherwise, and at being a more complete person. Yes, being “on” at a bar is a skill, but we can all walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. The conversation skills that help you meet new people can actually overlap quite a bit with the skills that make you a supportive friend, or a good listener. And it’s a little ridiculous to suggest that guys who are good at approaching women in bars are able to do so only at the expense of financial responsibility, cooking skills, and neglect of their mothers.
And I say all of this from the perspective of someone who was paralyzed by shyness for twenty five years and, while still not the most outgoing person, still believes his life has been greatly enriched by learning to be more bold in public.
Love your comment.
Let’s get to the crux of the matter..a guy shouldn’t need to be life of the party for women to be interested in him romantically. That”s the real problem. Your knight in shining armor friend is a female ideal that men SHOULD NOT need to live up to. Being an extrovert is not a skill. As Lady Gaga says..”I was born this way”..So cut the “bubble gum” dismissiveness when you talk about shy dudes..because they were probably born that way too.
What the world REALLY needs is more women to appreciate the Teds over the Barneys.
I suppose it winds up being a round robin, though doesn’t it? I mean, I’ve seen shy/quiet/nice men have crushes on really hot women while ignoring the shy/quiet/nice but maybe more plain girl who is interested in her. And she in turn might not notice some other guy interested in her.
Is the problem that women aren’t interested in Ted’s or that people, sometimes when they are young (though not always) seek some ideal that is perhaps unattainable (because unattainable things are hot)?
I’m not sure how old you are IDBY, but I’m in my 40′s and know a lot of couples with great women and great men who all wanted home and hearth and such. Big difference from when I was in my early 20′s and everyone was trying to find hot sexy people to sleep with. Cold comfort, sure, but given the luxury of perspective, I’ve seen a lot of great (nice, kind, smart, funny) men get married/partnered/laid to great women (nice, funny, cute etc).
I suppose it depends on the demographic you are around currently. Do you see a lot of hook up culture or are you around a lot of couples.
Even with the younger people I know and am exposed to due to theater and other things (they are 22-28 primarily) most of them are looking for partners, finding them and dating long term. I don’t see a lot of bar scene, hook up, corporate culture so I don’t know how that differs.
Julie,
Your choices are your choices at any age,but you must own them. Don’t go into a bar and say you want a nice guy then leave with the asshole, because of his charisma. Either nice is more important to you or extroversion is more important. Either 1st impressions are more important or substance is most important. Yet women of every demographic are notorious for proclaiming they want a “nice guy” then picking the exact opposite.
Minus the big city part (I live at the beach, now), I fit right in with the HIMYM crew. Most of my companions, friends and coworkers are mid 20’s to mid 30’s. I know both the bar scene and the wedding scene equally well.
It always seems like we are at odds, IDBY. Do you think extroverted people can’t be nice? Do you think all introverts are good husband material? I figure people date around, try different combinations of things (sleeping together for the fun of it, long term dating) and hopefully find people they enjoy being around enough to commit to. First impressions are important AND substance is important. Substance can win out over a faulty first impression, at least in my experience it can, but if there isn’t anything “there” inside the person, all the Outside Stuff in the world isn’t gonna keep a relationship going, unless both partners are only in it for the status.
If anyone wants a nice person in their life, they should keep their eyes and heart open for nice people. They should also be nice people. That seems kind of obvious.
Also, I’m not sure intro/extroversion is the right set of terms here anyway. Are you going by the Myers Briggs definition, or just “big presence/little presence” kind of thinking. Outgoing people can be introverted by the MB definition. They just need to recharge differently than extroverted folks.
Julie,
Of course extroverted guys can be nice… just like nice guys can be introverted. But the reason we even have a post like this is because introverted nice guys like Ted routinely are being overlooked …while the extroverted guys … who aren’t nice… thrive. Mark’s commentary is thus directed towards Ted vs Barney, not Dreamguy versus Barney.
PS. We’ve been at odds lately because of the comments you’ve been supporting. Take brad for example. His anecdote is straight Amanda Marcotte “niceguy” attack minus her vitriol.
So because I agree that a man can be both nice and charismatic, and because I do think some guys probably need to look to themselves and not blame everyone else for their dating woes that’s wrong? I think people are more complicated than TV archetypes, and sometimes, but not always, (male or female) the problem is them, not the rest of the world
Please note the title “The World Needs More Teds.”
What’s wrong Julie is that Ted is not the problem here. This has already been established. TV Ted is ACTUALLY a nice guy, so when the ”not all nice guys are TRULY nice guys” excuses arrive it’s apparent that the purpose of such comments is to undermine a particular criticism of women’s dating behavior rather than admit the problem.
Look at DavidBryon’s comment at 12:38. Kind of sums it what’s going on here. Like I said before Marcotte does this stuff all the time. That’s why I recognize it.
Have a great evening.
@Brad: Thank you for bringing up the important point about so-called “Nice Guys” who are not. The important point there is that these are not simply guys who take longer to make a good firsst impression– these are guys who expect other people to give them brownie points for simple baseline good behavior, and resent women for not conforming to their expectations of behavior. It takes just as much work to learn the actions that supposedly cause a woman to respond to you favorably in a push-button fashion, as it does to hone “bar performance” skills.
In reality, human responses are unpredictable, because we all have free choice; and we have less control in relationships than we all think. IMO, no one should be too confident about getting anything out of life that depends on the consent of another. No one should be too confident that they will raise families or have a great sex life, because you can only control the outcome up to a point; and then it becomes all about the other person’s decision. But in a world where the media is constantly harping on, “OMG if you don’t have relationships you are doooooooomed to be poorer, sicker and sadder”, and conveniently ignores the unpredictable nature of anything interpersonal, it’s no wonder that people are looking for quick fixes to romantic success and fixated on “closing the deal” and push-button solutions.
When a woman proclaim how much she loves nice guys why shouldn’t these dudes expect brownie points over bad boys? Sounds reasonable to me.
Well said. Especially the “too much too soon” bit, its not really a guy issue so much as a human one.
Love this.
There seems to have been a backlash against this sort of narrative on feminist boards at some point in the last decade. They talk about an archetypal “Nice Guy” that they then attack. I wonder if it is to avoid a sting of accusation in these narratives that goes something like, “Women are assholes and hypocrites. They say they want a nice guy but then they pick jerks.” The reaction then is to fire back and say that nice guys are jerks too. I wonder if you’ve met that sort of criticism?
Good question. Another way to take a step beyond the Good Guy/A**hole binary would be to ask ourselves, if we are guys looking to date, who else is in the bar with you. I am not usually gathered around, listening to the loud guy; I’ve found someone else in the crowd who isn’t listening to him, either, and we’re getting to know one another. I look for people who look like they’ve got their eyes open and are waiting for a good conversation to come over. Or I get roped in by a good line from one of those people who are doing what I’m doing, only they got to me first.
Sometimes I am the a**hole in the binary. I can hold court with the best of them. It’s not an intimacy move for one-on-one; it’s a one-to-many, and it doesn’t get you laid unless the crowd moves away and only one remains. (Or you are in the right kind of bar to bring everyone home with you at once, but that has hardly ever happened to me.)
David, I met that sort of criticism in a blog post I had here on GMP once for She Said He Said, lemme see if I can find the link…
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/why-the-nice-guy-deserves-a-chance/
I think that there’s a legit point that sometimes “nice guys” aren’t “nice” but I don’t see why people need to derail conversations to say this. It seems like common sense to me. How about, “not everyone is nice”… I mean, hello? Duh. It doesn’t deserve 100 comments (IMHO) and complete mayhem and users calling other users rapists and the wild wild west of the gender war.
I mean, I’m happy for our 157 comments on that piece, that’s always good for us, but you’re right that it seems people on BOTH sides of the argument just want to spout agenda. In this case, Mark’s saying something really great, from a very genuine and heartfelt place. We should assume that when someone’s writing a fun essay like this that they realize the grey areas between the binary.
This reaction to the “Nice Guy” trope all goes back to common sense. But maybe I’m oversimplifying.
“I think that there’s a legit point that sometimes “nice guys” aren’t “nice” but I don’t see why people need to derail conversations to say this. It seems like common sense to me. How about, “not everyone is nice”… I mean, hello? Duh. It doesn’t deserve 100 comments (IMHO) and complete mayhem and users calling other users rapists and the wild wild west of the gender war.”
Yup
“But unfortunately no one meets their future wife hanging out in their home.”
Actually, a mutual friend brought my future wife to my housewarming party.
@Phillip, that is the best story I heard all day. Thanks!
Awesome!! Love that!!
Philip, I know two people that married their house sitter.
“But unfortunately no one meets their future wife hanging out in their home.”
Unless their house *is* the party
Or they parctically live in the bar, one or the other.
HAHA that is awesome, Philip. Dang, I wish that would happen to me.
I think that the bottom line is that it’s really impossible to tell who is a Ted and who is a Barney from a 15 minute conversation at a bar. Anyone can be nice to you for 15 minutes if they want to be. You can meet really nice outgoing guys, really awful guys who at first seem pleasantly shy, loud jerks, and quiet guys who are awesome. The same goes for women. I think that the real message here is that anyone who goes home with someone from a bar is not doing it because they think that the person is great. They probably don’t care about what someone’s personality actually is. If you go home with someone that you’ve known for 5 minutes and expect to meet your life partner… well, that’s just silly isn’t it?
It might be best if someone can explain what actually makes a Ted a Ted. It’s not quietness or lack of barroom conversation skills. For me, a Ted is someone who has good relationship skills (including friendship), empathy, compassion, is responsible, smart and is consistently relationship oriented. I think we can all agree that these people come in a variety of different forms.
“For me, a Ted is someone who has good relationship skills (including friendship), empathy, compassion, is responsible, smart and is consistently relationship oriented. I think we can all agree that these people come in a variety of different forms.”
KUDOS to you Wylee.
Kudos to Mark for the article. It definitely had me saying “hmmmmm”………..
I enjoyed this article and I agree with it almost entirely. The only thing that bothers me is having Ted as the archetypal nice guy. His belief in love and his pursuit of it is great, and his romantic gestures are too. However he isn’t always that nice. For example with Zoe he says he will support her then betrays her and blows up her childhood home so he can build a skyscraper (for an evil bank no less). I think choosing personal glory over a girl he said he loves is a pretty Barney-like thing to do in my opinion.
But yes, in the context of this article, the world needs more Teds than Barneys.
I think the world needs less of both of them. While I love the show, Ted only serves to perpetuate the blame game so many “nice guys” use to justify their frustrations.
There isn’t really a contradiction between women saying they like “nice guys” and then going after “bad boys.” When a woman says this we assume that she has the self confidence in herself to believe that she actually deserves to have a “nice guy” and second we assume that the descriptions she uses for the “nice guy” are the number one priority to her (they may be important to her, but not at the sacrifice of other more pressing qualities.) Just because a girl says “Why are so many men such jerks, why can’t a I just find a sweet, sensitive, guy?” assumes that she she wants this more than the “guy with status,” when often its that she wants a “guy with status” first and foremost who is then also “sweet and sensitive.” Thirdly, and most often the case we assume that the “nice guy” doesn’t have extremely unattractive qualities that trump his “sweet and sensitive-ness” or that his “sweet and sensitive-ness” are really genuine and authentic.
While Ted has many many good qualities he exhibits many more unattractive qualities, particularly, extreme selfishness. Ted is completely and totally motivated only for his self satisfaction of having found his “the one.” It’s not about love and companionship it’s about accomplishing an ideal; finding a woman who’s face he can paste over the silloutte standing next to him in the wedding pictures he’s already printed in his head. His “big romantic gestures’ while sometimes genuine more often smack of an expected transaction – I did this so I “win” your love in return. He is wishy-washy in his beliefs and values when it conflicts with those of the current ‘woman-of-the-week.” For example, in the Zoe situation he only promised her her would defend her childhood home when it directly contradicted his values and goals, and I actually take the opposite approach in that his blowing up the building was more about finally realizing the despite “their love” he and Zoe didn’t share the same values and goals. He is self-defaming and has little respect for himself.
I would argue not that “not everyone is nice,” but rather that the “nice guy” really ISN’T nice when you start to dig deeper.
“Ted is completely and totally motivated only for his self satisfaction of having found his “the one.” It’s not about love and companionship it’s about accomplishing an ideal; finding a woman who’s face he can paste over the silloutte standing next to him in the wedding pictures he’s already printed in his head. His “big romantic gestures’ while sometimes genuine more often smack of an expected transaction – I did this so I “win” your love in return.”
Yeah, that’s the big difference between a nice person and a “Nice Person” (of which women can act that way as well, looking for a stand in partner, any partner). Selfishness, passive aggressiveness, a focus on filling a position for status, an sense of transactional focus on the relationship-I hit all my marks so you must love me, is anethema to a real intimate and connected relationship of lovers who love each other.
Nice people are like mirrors that shine your goodness back at you. “Nice People” want to see, need to see, their reflection of themselves out of YOUR eyes.
Tsk. Tsk. Excuses. Excuses.
1. Once again we see the tired “nice guys aren’t really nice defense”. Sorry, but the the show is in its 7th season and Ted isn’t flawless, but he is very much a sincerely nice guy.
2. Are you a lawyer? A woman who says she wants “nice guys” should be expected to own it, not weasel out of her proclamation by using an asterisk, fine print and disclaimers. Nice guy and bad boy are contradictions, plain and simple.
I love this post. I’m one of the lucky ones who found a Ted.
It always strikes me that so many of these conversations fall back on judging the male “performance” of the approach and landing of the Zeppelin.
I recall working on a study back when I cared more about my social studies, and we used a linguistic software program to scan thousands of dating ads for common themes and requests: one very notable theme in the female bucket list, aside from height, was the “ability to make me laugh”.
Understandable. Humor and mirth is a top end social skill that demonstrates high intelligence and social capital. Men don’t seek much of that from me – my boobs are a good enough substitute, so it seems, and I don’t mean in a funny ruined sense.
Oh sweet God. Absolutely not.
Do you even watch the show? Ted is AWFUL! He falls in love at the drop of a hat and constantly whines about finding “the one.” While Barney’s playboy antics and distant demeanor can be harmful, so too can jumping in with both feet every single time and being a clingy, oversensitive douchebag. That’s Ted. He constantly whines and drives many women away with his instant intensity. That’s not someone the world needs more of.
Nice guys always bitch and moan about how girls always like the asshole. I know, I used to be one of them years ago. But I learned most of the guys those women chose weren’t TOTAL assholes. They were part asshole. Moderate asshole. Whereas I was a flower-buying, poetry-spouting, ridiculous romantic. But whichever extreme you’re at, it’s bad. Being a complete prick is just as obnoxious as being the super-sensitive Capt. Nice Guy who falls in love each time he turns his head. Neither should be admired or emulated.
Especially Ted.
I beg to differ. Ted mosby is not a jerk. That was Barney.
Ted’s first 6 girlfriends were broken up by Lily sabotaging him, not by anything Ted did.
Just sayin.
These are great insights which I personally think are spot on.
“And so the guy who performs well in the bar might have none of the skills he’ll be required to have once you’re deeply into a relationship, like attentiveness, listening, consideration, empathy, respectfulness, thoughtfulness, caring and patience.”
The guys/bfs whom I met in clubs/bars ended up being very self-centered versus the ones who don’t hang out there every weekend. The bar/club guys generally aren’t very faithful either. Needless to say, I don’t hang out at clubs/bars anymore…I’m over that stage.
You’re right, the extroversion can only take you so far in relationships when you realize that your own needs aren’t being met and the other person is about me, me, me…and take and take and take from the relationship. At that point, I see no future in the relationship and dump these selfish dudes. Right now I’m seeing this guy who has all that the qualities mentioned: attentiveness, listening, consideration, empathy, respectfulness, thoughtfulness, caring and patience. These are endearing qualities which I would take anytime over charismatic, egotistical charm which most times is just a performance.
Ding Ding. We have a winner!
I agree brief bar encounters are terrible….I hope that people have more creative ways of meeting people of the opposite sex than bars….I think you only get to really know someone after you have seen them through various situations/stress (i.e., school, sports, etc.)….people present such shallow versions of themselves in bars….
The whole Nice guy vs. jerk debate has grown very old and tired. The truth is that women desire both nice guys and jerks at different times and at different quantities in their life. I’m in my early thirties, and my default state when meeting women for the first time is approximately 65% Barney, 35% Ted. I used to be much more of a Ted growing up, but I could never consistently land the type of women I most want to be with being that way. Trying to turn that around and be a straight up jerk didn’t help either.
I know this isn’t universal, but the kind of girls I’ve been interested generally want the more challenging and charming Barney type guy up front, but one who gradually takes on more Ted-type qualities as the relationship grows. From my experience, I imagine this would be true for more women than not. Instead of vilifying the Barneys of the world, we should teach more Teds to identify the qualities in the Barneys that women find desirable and start mimicking those (minus the misogynistic attitude, of course). Maybe then, people would start finding more satisfaction in their relationships, and we could put this whole silly debate to an end.
“…we should teach more Teds to identify the qualities in the Barneys…”
I would think that would be like ‘teaching an old dog new tricks’…which would be quite a feat and exasperating to do, and be unappreciated by the recipient. I know most men would take offense if their woman tried to “change” them, which is what you’re suggesting here. When women do this, men see this as “nagging” …am I not right? And usually the more extroverted people are, the more they resist change or improve themselves for anyone; plus if they are good-looking and/or good in bed, they believe that’s all it takes to keep the relationship going. I’ve dumped some really good looking guys who had nothing else going for them…I can’t have a relationship with an IMAGE, can I?
The majority of women, including myself, I don’t think enjoy nagging men or trying to change them. We’d rather find someone closer to our ideal, with whom we can live with. Chivalry/niceness should come naturally and be genuine; people who fake it, lose their cover quite quickly because they cannot sustain this fake front —it’s not natural for them. It’s either you got it, or you don’t. And by the time you’re in your 30′s, your personality traits are pretty set.
Nobody expects anybody to read someone else’s minds, but reality is that it really does not take a lot to be considerate and thoughtful — not some huge sacrifice. The following qualities does not cost anything except a little time, if that person matters to you: attentiveness, listening, consideration, empathy, respectfulness, thoughtfulness, caring and patience.
All valid points and well taken.
I agree that it’s not easy. I’m sure that’s a big reason why the smooth, entertainer-type guys are so highly valued in the sexual marketplace. There just aren’t that many guys out there that can pull off the act with any level of consistency.
The alternative isn’t any easier. How would one go about teaching women, especially young women, to seek out the geniunely good, nice, and quiet guys hanging out in the corner. The only quiet guy I know who also generates a lot of interest from women happens to be 6’2″, muscular, and good-looking. If more attractive women actively sought out, dated, and married more of the Barney types, there would far fewer Teds hanging around.
No woman should be the one to force a guy to learn the good qualities that the Barneys of the world have. That’s a decision that a guy needs to make for himself. He has to decide when he has had enough, go out and find a man who had the same challenges and over came them so he can learn from him.
I have always been very outgoing, but that not particularly successful with women; I didn’ t know how to act around them, I felt uncomfortable around them so they felt uncomfortable around me. Fortunately I’ve always been in the mode of fixing things about myself when I see a problem and I got over it. Not all guys will be willing to put in the work; it’s not always easy.
I really don’t think a woman is being hypocritical when she says that she wants a “nice sensitive guy” and then ignores the “nice sensitive guys” because the nice sensitive guy that she has in hear head isn’t the same “nice sensitive guy” standing in front of her who keeps pandering to her and gives her gifts all the time. Here’s why: people mirror body language.
We instinctively pick up on the cues other people send us and then mimic them, unless we consciously pay attention to them and fight them (or use them to influence the emotions of the person we are speaking to.) When the girl describes the “nice sensitive guy” she’s imagining a guy who gives her comfort. When the “nice guy” who by definition is shy and unsure of himself approaches her those signals rub off on her and it makes her feel unsure and uncomfortable around him.
The confident guy, even if he is actually a huge jerk, initially inspires confidence in her. His open body language also opens up her body language as she begins to mirror him. Open body language + confidence + smiling results in building an initial level of comfort. The Confident guy is comfortable so it makes the woman feel comfortable. As more women in the bar pay attention to him his Market Value increases. This doesn’t mean that women need to walk up to him, grab him, or hit on him, but people pick up on all sorts of things, including multiple women in the same room surreptitiously paying attention to the same guy – this doesn’t even have to be looking at at the guy, it can be titling parts of the body parts towards him, particularly feet…feet have a habit of revealing what people are actually thinking. The increased social status is noticed by the men as well who either feel inferior and shy away, threatened and compete, or want to garner some of the confident guy’s recognition to increase their social standing as well.
The other thing we need to talk about is at what…I don’t know a better word for it..”status” of woman are you judging this by (I don’t mean how good a woman she is I mean the “status level awarded” to the man who “wins” her)? Women of different characters and types respond in different ways. Usually when guys moan and complain about hypocrisy in girls they are usually talking about women who have very high status and are thus women surrounded by and being competed over by high status men. The more men chasing after the woman the higher her status and market value becomes. The whining, moaning, and complaining guys miss out on lots of great, wonderfully gorgeous women who who don’t have the same “status” value.
It’s plainly hypocritical.
If you say you want a nice guy, then choose nice guys. Don’t pick guys that make you comfortable regardless of their niceness.
Instead of vilifying the Barneys of the world, we should teach more Teds to identify the qualities in the Barneys that women find desirable and start mimicking those (minus the misogynistic attitude, of course).
So we must search for the TedNey!
I found this article interesting because my friends and I are always complaining about how much of a jerk Ted can be. Ted has no problem pursuing a woman with grand romantic gestures and strong intent, but then dropping her immediately over something trivial or another prettier girl comes along. Whereas most girls figure out pretty quickly that Barney was just a player, there isn’t as much emotional involvement as with Ted and is weeks-long stands. The emotional games Ted plays are more devastating than people realize.