I just realized that, like, this entire week has been about rape and murder and prisons and depressing things, so I’ve decided it’s time for a happier topic: PONIES! (Also, gif warning, epileptic people!)
Are bronies changing the definition of masculinity?
[Video summary: Dude talks at a camera. He defines "brony" (adult fan of My Little Pony, usually male), points out that they're everywhere and get a lot of hate, and says that they're expanding the definition of masculinity. If men are doing it, clearly it's masculine. Also, Judith Butler and Anais Nin get mentioned. In a discussion of cartoon ponies. I kind of feel like Ms. Butler would be pleased.]
Bronies actually do get a truly absurd amount of shit. I mean, some of them are assholes, and some of them are really creepy, and some of them refuse to shut up ever about how My Little Pony is the best thing ever seriously you guys twenty percent cooler, but you know who else that’s true of? Literally every large group of fans ever. And yet no one has the same absurd hatred for fans of the Avengers movie.
[Depicted: Loki crying, not being hated by half the Internet.]
Also, nearly everyone who is like “adults like a show about cartoon ponies? That’s soooooo weeeeeeeird” has never had to put up with a brony explaining that no seriously Fluttershy is the best pony. I am just saying.
So I do think a lot of the explanation is essentially our good old friend femmephobia. You can’t like My Little Pony! My Little Pony is for girls! Girls’ things are terrible! (It doesn’t help that previous generations of My Little Pony were actually terrible.) I mean, some of it is that it’s for children? But adult fans of Avatar (real Avatar, not blue-people Avatar) don’t get the same hatred, and male fans of Sex And The City* almost certainly would. Men aren’t allowed to like girlthings. It’s wrong. Girlthings are supposed to suck! You are shaking the foundations of our ~world~ with your fondness for magical ponies that are learning about friendship!
I don’t necessarily know that My Little Pony is having as big an effect as all that, though. After all, there are misogynistic bronies. (There are even MRA bronies, a phenomenon which never ceases to amuse.) And a whole lot of people who like My Little Pony are going to be people who are already non-gender-conforming a little already. For one thing, very gender-conforming men are not (usually) going to watch My Little Pony. For another, most My Little Pony fans are geeks, and most geeks are not very good at performing their gender properly. (See also: stereotype of basement-dwelling can’t-get-laid unathletic nerd.)
What I really hope is that there are some men who never really questioned the idea that Boys Do Boythings and Girls Do Girlthings, who see their friends get into this show and start out kind of reluctant, kind of “that’s weird,” and are finally prevailed upon to watch it and actually like it. And then they can get a chance– not to like girlthings. Because the point is not to have guys like girlthings and chicks like boythings, because that’s just the same gender roles flipped the other way around. The point is to have people like things that are awesome, without worrying about whether they’re girlthings or boythings or ziecreaturethings. And maybe My Little Pony can be one tiny step towards getting that to happen.
*or whatever it is you people watch
About ozyfrantz
Pooooonies!
I myself am quite a brony. And quite male. And I know exactly what you mean. At the camp I work at, one of my friends is very vocally hating everything that relates to ponies, which I sort of put down to him being all caught up in 4chan culture. I had another one who said that he was okay with guys being gay, but not liking girl things. Which rather upset me because I was thinking “Wait, I need to ask your PERMISSION now?”
“Are bronies changing the definition of masculinity?”
No. Men liking something that is stereotypically aimed at women is not a new thing, not even close. But you know what geeks are like, they can’t just like something, they have to claim it’s morally right to like it.
I mean, I find the show quite deathly dull and silly, but if you like it, go nuts. Even bring it up in unrelated fora, I guess, it’s no more annoying than any other derail. But don’t claim that you’re breaking down gender roles.
The biggest scourge of the online social justice-sphere is people trying to turn their hobbies into moral imperatives.
When the hell did morality or social justice come up? What does it not being a new thing have to do with it either? He didn’t talk about any of that, in fact he cited several examples about how this isn’t a new thing. Did you even watch the video? He simply pointed out that men are enjoying a product that many believe is not masculine. By enjoying something unexpected by stereotyped gender roles people are challenging those roles.
It had nothing to do with “Turning a hobby into a moral imperative.” Maybe try paying attention to a topic before opening your mouth next time.
I didn’t watch the video, no – I was responding to Ozy’s post, not the video. As for morality and social justice, to me discussions of “expanding the definition of masculinity” are innately tied to both morality and social justice.
Oh and as an addendum, to claim you are expanding the definition of something that the definition already covers is nonsense, which is the why the “this has been done before” thing was relevant. I’m afraid my mouth remains open, sorry.
This idea is something I tried to touch on in my afterword to our short story anthology Bronies: For the Love of Ponies from Kazka Press. I do agree that men are being able to exist in new spaces through bronies. It’s not so much that they like something aimed at women; that’s a pretty simplistic way to look at it. Rather, it’s boys and men finding a socially acceptable space to relate to the world in ways that are something other than stereotypically masculine: violence, anger, etc. Celebrating the whole boy is a good thing. There are becoming more models of being a man that don’t include misogyny, violence, and hate. That’s a good thing and should be encouraged, in my mind.
I do agree, though, there are certainly segments of the bronies population that don’t fit into that–as with the MRA bronies listed above. But there’s a nice swath of the community pushing gender role boundaries for men simply by inhabiting the space.
I have another comment!
I’m rather active in the Facebook Brony community, and while there are great things about gender stuff (there’s a very popular page whose character’s special talent is being a transvestite, and the highly loved Princess Derpy page posts pictures of himself in dresses and make-up) I doubt bronies will have a significant effect on the dialog.
Now, they COULD. There are certainly enough bronies. And if they got together and said “Let’s talk about this,” there’d be a huge number of guys who are definitely guys, who are proudly liking something girly. But bronies AREN’T proudly liking something girly. Time after time I see images proudly showing that for X reason, My Little Pony isn’t REALLY a girly show.
I disagree with Hugh that it’s a matter of liking something and claiming it’s morally right to like. The significant portion of, at the very least, the geek population that love this show is large enough and vocal enough that they COULD. It’s not morally right to like, but there is a possibility to do something moral with it. Look at the money raised for charity, for instance. Bronies CAN make a difference.
The simple fact is they won’t, because they can’t make a difference regarding this until they actually ADMIT that they like girly things.
I gave MLP an honest chance. I tried watching a couple episodes online and lost interest less than halfway through. I don’t understand the pony craze, but as long as I’m riding overpriced childrens’ bikes for a hobby, I’m not gonna judge anyone.
I had such high hopes for MLP’s ability to broaden the social bounds of masculinity! It’s almost as fey as rainbow unicorn attack. But Steele’s right, none of my friends who watch the show seem inclined to discuss its girliness or what significance liking it has in terms of gender performance.
And then I see all these guys saying that Fluttershy’s the best pony because she’s so shy and caring and submissive and they just want to whiteknight all over her and I’m like no guys, stop, you don’t understand I AM Fluttershy and when I was that shy being in a relationship with me was an absolute nightmare.
If you think MRA bronies are weird I’ve got something thats even stranger. I this link on the site gwern.net that leads to a tumblr account called mynationalistpony. Now that is truly odd.