Why do women date assholes? Ali Rizvi explains through a pop culture analysis.
Before watching Scott Pilgrim vs. the World, I thought I’d relate to it mostly because it is set in my city of Toronto. (Many movies are shot here, but this is one of the few that doesn’t pretend it’s not.) Afterwards, however, I was a little more impressed than I’d expected. Not because of the many OMG-that’s-Michael-Cera-at-Bathurst-station-I-was-just-there-twenty-minutes-ago! moments—but because of a character named Gideon.
Let me explain. (Spoilers follow.) The movie, based on Bryan Lee O’Malley’s subtly insightful comic of the same name, centers around a young bass player, Scott Pilgrim, who is vying for the attention of the mysterious new girl in town, Ramona Flowers. And it works: She likes him back. But to truly win her he must battle a league of her seven evil exes, all of whom want to kill him. This goes reasonably well. Most of Ramona’s exes—the exotic Indian guy, the chiseled jock actor, the also-bassist who is more successful and plays better, the conscientious vegan, and even a woman—turn out to be no match for Scott Pilgrim.
But Gideon, the final ex, presents quite the challenge. He is the successful, wealthy owner of a prominent Toronto club. He is taller, better looking, and even offers Scott’s band a record contract, leaving his friends fawning over him. He skillfully feigns kindness, acceptance, and generosity, an act readily transparent to everyone except Ramona.
Sure enough, after six strenuous battles that nearly kill him, Ramona resignedly informs Scott that she is leaving him to go back to Gideon. She acknowledges she broke up with Gideon because he ignored her during their relationship—but she Just. Can’t. Get. Him. Out. Of. Her. Head. Literally, actually. You see, Gideon has implanted a microchip in the back of Ramona’s neck, with which he continues to control her. Even after she’s moved on.
Notably, Scott’s roommate calls Gideon the “perfect asshole,” and when breaking up with him, Ramona calls Scott “the nicest guy I ever dated.” Have a drink if you can see where I’m going with this.
Here’s the thing: I believe that ultimately, healthy women with good self-esteem will want to be with good, decent men. I really do.
But this can be a hard argument to make when there are countless young men out there thinking, Wow, Rihanna is beautiful, talented, successful, wealthy, independent, and could probably have any guy she wants—so why is she going back to Chris Brown? There’s got to be something about that guy.
I have to confess, I’ve thought the same thing myself. Men like Brown are simply fascinating and intriguing to me—not because I condone their behavior, but because I recognize it.
One of the smartest and most insightful women I know—who worked with domestic violence victims herself—once tearfully confided to me that her ex-boyfriend would often force himself on her even when she resisted. She knew it was assault, but couldn’t admit it to herself in the moment. I listened to her talk about him for hours, and he didn’t exactly sound like a great guy to me. But today she’s dating him again, and I don’t know what to think. Now he fascinates me.
I wish that were one of the exceptions, and in a way, it may be. I understand how conflating the phenomenon of “bad boy” appeal with abuse victims returning to their abusers may seem like a stretch. But I insist that they are separate manifestations of the same underlying dynamic, falling at different points along the same continuum.
This particular facet of human sexual attraction is a subject of meticulous study and exploration right now. There are cognitive psychologists at NYU trying to understand the minds of men like self-proclaimed narcissist and “professional asshole” Tucker Max. Don Draper, the chain-smoking, drinking, philandering, lying, mistress-addicted, manipulative, emotionally stunted lead character of the show Mad Men, is so universally irresistible to the show’s female audience that even feminists are scratching their heads trying to decrypt the nature of their attraction to him. (Interestingly, of the team of nine writers that brings his misogynistic and attractive character to life, seven are women.) Our culture reveres men like James Bond and Mick Jagger, and now a whole new generation is being raised to the Twilight series, featuring a passive, docile heroine whose love interest literally started out threatening to kill her and drink her blood—but instead fell in love with her. Their erratic romance eerily fulfills many of the National Domestic Violence hotline’s criteria for an abusive relationship.
Is the cultural glamorization of dysfunctional males the cause of their allure? Or is it a just a reflection of authentic, deeply rooted human behavior?
Well, science says it could be both.
Men with the “dark triad” traits of narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy have significantly higher numbers of sexual partners than their peers. Evolutionary psychologists have long pointed to how these men represented a successful evolutionary reproductive strategy, for reasons that are pretty obvious. At the other end, women consistently seem to demonstrate a preference for more conventionally masculine men during ovulation. Moreover, women with partners who are not classically masculine looking are more likely to fantasize about other men when ovulating compared to women who are already partnered with the manly James Bond types.
And then there is the Byronic hero—an attractive but dysfunctional male character named for the poet Lord Byron, who was described by his lover Lady Caroline Lamb as “mad, bad and dangerous to know.” The Byronic hero predates most modern media, has been a staple in romantic literature for centuries (pick up any romance novel at the supermarket), and represents the idealized image of the subject of female fantasy as much as he shapes it.
But even though there is scientific and historical evidence for these phenomena, it’s not as simple as saying that all women like assholes. Peter Jonasan, the University of West Florida psychology professor who published the dark triad study, is careful to note that this does not apply to all women.
Women exhibiting avoidant attachment patterns, low self-esteem, and histories of abuse, sexual trauma, or unstable family backgrounds are more likely to be attracted to men with dark triad characteristics. The stereotypical scenario of the insecure woman with “baggage” or “daddy issues” who opportunistic men frequently view as easy prey is sadly borne out in reality much more than we’d like.
These women, often raised to seek constant approval from certain men in their lives (abusive fathers, manipulative ex-boyfriends), are more likely to look at dysfunctional men as projects to “fix” (just as men often seek out women they can heroically “rescue”). Men who are supportive, accommodating, or appreciative of them just can’t present the challenge in the same way. If you had been raised to constantly seek approval, where would it leave you when you finally get it?
Women with these kinds of patriarchal mindsets also find themselves drawn to patriarchal, sexist men. If the relationship lasts, they sometimes have daughters who not only experience these men as their first real male role models, but also see their mothers stick it through with them, reinforcing and perpetuating the cycle. How would a young woman spot a good man when she doesn’t even know what one looks like?
When it comes to love and sexual attraction, both men and women are prone to self-deceit. There is a real, gaping dissonance between expressed desires and actual desires: what people say they want and what they really want can be two completely different things, often unbeknownst even to them. Acknowledging and recognizing this dissonance is not only beneficial, but also quite profitable. When the dating site Match.com incorporated this insight into its match-generating algorithm, it helped earn its parent company IAC over $400 million.
There are nuances and intricacies in this discussion that extend beyond the hackneyed, oversimplified debates between evolutionary psychologists and gender sociologists that represent it. The Brown/Rihanna saga may be particularly shocking because of the public spotlight and brutal physical violence involved, but remains just another stark representation of a widely prevalent dynamic that just manifests itself in subtler ways elsewhere.
If we express shock at the Brown/Rihanna collaboration while simultaneously thinking of our cultural and hormonal fascination with Twilight, James Bond, and Don Draper as normal, sexism and patriarchy are here to stay for a very long time—with both men and women complicit.
This is why it’s not just the image of women in the media that needs to change, but that of men as well — maybe even more urgently. Instead of expressing shock at these stories, it may be more useful to have a diagnostic discussion about why they’re not as surprising as they should be. At least as a start.
Many of us have been Scott Pilgrim, and many of us have been Gideon. Some of us (myself included) have been both, depending on the people and circumstances involved. In the end, Scott Pilgrim fights Gideon twice—first for his love for Ramona, and then for his own self-respect. I’ll leave it to you to guess which ultimately makes her mind control chip disappear.
—Photo christopher_aquino/Flickr
One partial explanation is that many people can keep the nice one around as a permanent back-up plan. If the good one will always be around, then why not take some risks in the meantime and pursue the dangerous one? The bad one could leave me, but the good one will still be hanging around, so why not get some excitement in the meantime? If it doesn’t work out, I can always take a rest with the nice one for a while before I’m ready for the next adventure.
(This happens with both men and women.)
Ali. You mentioned romance novels. My wife and i were traveling and we got some recorded books. One was by Jude Deveraux, “Days of Gold”. Oh, my lord, it was awful. What was worse was the info on the liner notes that Deveraux had pumped out three dozen of this type prior.How terrible to be locked on to that workbench for life. But the romantic hero is…awful. How on earth any woman expects to find Edmund/win/gar, sullen, mysterious darkly handsome Earl of Loamshire, cheated of his rightful inheritance and so he makes his living as a pirate…. Still, it’s a… Read more »
I don’t know how this became a gendered thing with the ‘women like assholes’ trope, when men do the exact same thing–they very often go for assholes themselves. Women even whine about it in the same way and have for a while. Watch the Taylor Swift video, “You Belong With Me” and listen to/read the lyrics. The singer is the female version of the quintessential ‘Nice Guy.’ She’s the good girl who would treat the great man right, but she goes unnoticed. She’s in the friend zone. The other chick is a vamp who’s doesn’t treat him well and couldn’t… Read more »
Part of the problem with the imbalance is that, in my experience, it seems that with Nice Guys they are pointed out to be the jerks because they are whining about not getting the girl while the bad boys have no trouble with getting the girl while the with Nice Girls the guy in question is pointed out to be the jerk for no recognizing the great girl that is attracted to him that is much better than the vamp he’s with. In short: In the Nice Guy – Girl – Bad Boy picture there is plenty of room to… Read more »
Women have been talking about women being assholes (bitches) for a long time. They’re just as prone to slut shame and talk shit about women as men are. Many men have had no problem admitting women can be bitches (90% of ex girlfriends are terrible human beings). Women and men can both be assholes, and they’re also real people with real lives and real problems, and at different stages of their lives. Assuming the man or woman who’s with the man or woman you want is a terrible person (and complaining about it all the time) won’t get you anywhere.
Most of the “nice guys” i know tend to get messed around by a few women, but women who have a lot of importance. Major desires such as crushes, loves, they can hold quite a lot of influence and this can really crush a person’s spirit, it’s what gives birth to the bitterness I believe. Sadly many of the ones I’ve known have had these important females use them, mess them around, get their hopes up and crush them. This probably happens to quite a lot of women too by guys. I am unsure of why they use others, maybe… Read more »
Aya, true, but this article is specifically about the kind men certain kinds of women go for – and how the underlying dynamic driving this behavior also relates to abusive situations. What you’re talking about could be a perfectly legitimate, separate article. There’s a lot of discussion in the mainstream about idealized images of women in fashion, porn, etc, but very little about the idealized men portrayed in romance novels any 11 year old can pick up off a supermarket shelf. If you deal with one without dealing with the other, everyone gets screwed.
I believe the “Bradley Effect” is called that after Tom Bradley, once LA mayor, a black man. He was elected by smaller margins than polling showed. From which it was presumed that people who claimed to be okay with a black man wouldn’t admit it, but would vote against him. And people who didn’t like his policies didn’t want to be thought of as racist, so they said they liked him. I think we need to allow for, if we can’t quantify, the Bradley effect when we poll folks on issues like this. What twenty-year-old is going to say something… Read more »
I forgot #3:
3. Assholes give the impression of being more authentic, more real somehow. They obviously don’t censor themselves very much, and they give the impression of “what you see is what you get.” They look like fully independent autonomous beings. After all, who would at like that who wasn’t really like that? To many people that seems refreshing in a society where image is everything.
Two big explanations, both of which are covered in your article: 1. “Bad” people are often much more fascinating than good people, who tend to have less drama. There’s the lure of people who are different from what they’re supposed to be. In this case, it’s probably more to do with appearing to be a “rebel” than being a bad boy. 2. For men and women, there’s the lure of finding someone to save or rescue. Someone who can be redeemed only by the unique love of someone like me. Some others: 1. Self-defined “nice guys” are often bitter, whining,… Read more »
You know what? There’s no difference between a man labeling women already dealing with shit in a patriarchal society and the comments by men about those women who have managed to achieve despite the odds against them (due to a patriarchal society). “Let’s hope that the key conferences aren’t when she’s menstruating or something, or just before she’s going to menstruate. That would really be bad. Lord knows what we would get then.” [Gordon Liddy about Sonia Sotomayor] This article in a nutshell: “Let’s hope that women who were raped, abused, have daddy issues, unstable family backgrounds don’t fuck it… Read more »
Maha, this article is supposed to be exploratory, not accusatory. It’s an attempt to show PRECISELY that these issues are not black and white. I don’t want to get into what we say to each other when we fight on a public thread because that’s personal, and we’re likely to misrepresent each other and get into a Jerry Springer like he-said/she-said thing. Here’s the thing: the line about insecure women with histories of trauma and abandonment being more likely to pair up with ‘dark triad’ men was not a stab at you or anyone else — it was directly from… Read more »
The ground seems to be missing, under this conversation. Being human is hard to do. There’s plenty of cultural and psychological motivation for getting lost in one form of insanity or another, as I think we all know. Instead of judging women for accepting or being addicted to abusive men, why don’t we broaden the view here a little and acknowledge just how challenging it is to be a really sane, loving human being? For *all* of us? There are many different ways that people (both sexes 🙂 express self-loathing. Women are traditionally identified by their relationships, men by what… Read more »
Thanks for the link – I do think it does come down to assertiveness and confidence, not necessarily douchebaggery. Again, I didn’t write this from an accusatory perspective, but an exploratory one – and I haven’t said that “all” women are attracted to love-addicted assholes: *** “But even though there is scientific and historical evidence for these phenomena, it’s not as simple as saying that all women like assholes. Peter Jonasan, the University of West Florida psychology professor who published the dark triad study, is careful to note that this does not apply to all women. Women exhibiting avoidant attachment… Read more »
So true what you say in your essay….I was once involved in an abusive relationship with the worst, most narcissistic, psychopathic man ever…it took me years to finally get out of his grip…. My husband is a sweetheart and, yet I find that the relationships that I have with other men in my karate class to complement the one I have with my husband….My karate sensei is uber macho and talks like he is the expert of everything, which I find oddly reassuring even though I know that he doesn’t know everything….Sensei uses every nasty curse word in the English… Read more »
There’s been a lot of lip service over ‘women liking bad boys’ but I have a more interesting question.
Why do men like bad girls?
For example, I know a woman who was married to a male relative. The woman is ugly as a sack of squished spiders–inside and out–psychotically violent and financially abusive yet she always has a new beau doting on her and a few waiting in the wings.
Maybe the better question is:
Why do humans like bad humans?
That’s a damn good question.
Why do humans like bad humans? If you look at a lot of people who take on the “what could they possibly see in him/her?” attitude notice that the answer is usually something like, “It must be because they _____.” Where that blank is filled in with some trait that is considered to be so great that it overrides all the negative characters of that person. For example TB that woman you speak of people would probably think that she must be a great sex partner, a good home keeper, she has money, etc… And I truly think that sometimes… Read more »
Aya
The trope that women love assholes is an interesting view. On other sites, for a long time, men have said they’ve given up their nice-guy thing, that which seems to them the best and most agreeable way to act toward women, that which comes most naturally, and gone jerk, to one degree or another. And they report an increase in their social/sexual success.
Either this is true, or it’s a well-organized standing hoax.
Thanks for a thoughtful article on the subject instead of your typical “women love assholes so that’s why I am one.”.
Thanks Aya, that was exactly the point. I’m not an asshole, and don’t intend to be for quite a while. People who view kindness and vulnerability as weaknesses often do so because when they tried to be that way to others — they got burned/abandoned/betrayed. So when others are nice to THEM, they look at it the same way: they simply can’t process it, because they view these people as weak. I had parents and siblings who were pretty much unconditionally there for me. That foundation — of kindness and support — really gave me the freedom to be the… Read more »
My theory is that many of the women who put up with domestic violence actually view it as a form of love and in some ways actually feel more secure with a man that hits them. These women are afraid of being abandoned and they are insecure about whether the guy really likes them or not. They want to know that their man really really has strong feelings. They interpret insane jealously as attachment.
I second that.
http://www.nationalreview.com/blogs/print/292424
The article describes the phenomenon. The link explains it. The insistence by various folks that this doesn’t happen confuses some other folks who are told one thing and see another. Either some people (women) are nuts, or somebody’s putting us on. If the latter, why?
Didn’t think I’d find myself nodding my head to the majority of a piece from the National Review, but it actually happened with this one. Thanks for the link.
Working with domestic violence/sexual assault survivors myself (and seeming to be one of the few in the field w/o personal experience myself, thankfullyl), I agree that a lot of women who’ve experienced some kind of interpersonal violence in the past are more likely to seek out men with less than stellar qualities, to put it lightly. However, I think it’s also important to note the influence of popular culture and “traditional values” on how women are raised and what they’re taught re. gender roles, male/female interactions and relationships, etc. I watched an interview with Rihanna on Ellen about 6(ish) months… Read more »
One more thing re. gender roles: when I’m dealing with a same-sex relationship with DV in it, I am still constantly running into the perception (of both society and the legal system) that men can’t be victims because they’re men and should be able to “fight back,” while women can’t be perpetrators because, well, they’re women and that’s not in their nature. These are very difficult perceptions to break, yet they have such a strong influence on how we interact with one another.
SD5289 writes: ” I agree that a lot of women who’ve experienced some kind of interpersonal violence in the past are more likely to seek out men with less than stellar qualities, to put it lightly. However, I think it’s also important to note the influence of popular culture and “traditional values” ” From what I have read, the tendency of women to enter into destructive relationship has much more to do with a-traditional values rather than traditional values. By this I mean that I have read many studies that state that boys and girls fare much worse later in… Read more »
“Just another reason why I have a real problem with many (especially politicially active) feminists expectation that they can solve gender issues for both genders by only concentrating on women’s issues.”
This goes the other way too. A disproportionate number abusers, rapists and even murderers come from single mother households. So these type of families produce both the victims and the perpetrators.
I don’t actually believe I stated that we should only focus on “women’s issues” in my comment. Why would I be reading a site like this one if I thought that were true. In fact, what I was trying to get at was focusing on just “one side” of it limits our ability to actually do something about the issue. Multiple perspectives must be included, and I wrote about the flip-side of what the author here wrote about in order to provide a more full picture as to how these types of relationships seem to come about again and again… Read more »
Thoughtful, intelligent and well written. Thanks fo sharing this!