Every Friday, Lisa Hickey, the Publisher and CEO of The Good Men Project, hosts a conversation with our Premium Member Community. Listen in as we discuss the changing role of men and masculinity in the 21st century, the implications of the Republican National Convention—and a robust discussion how we as a group can continue to create change.
On this week’s call were Jed Diamond, Jack Summers, Mark Sherman, Mike Kasdan, J.W. Holland, Lisa Duggan, Sherilyn Lee, Lisa Blacker, Chris Faber and Thaddeus Howze. (And of course, Good Men Project Publisher Lisa Hickey)
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[Notes from Lisa Hickey’s Introduction to the call]
I was so glad that nothing traumatizing happened between this call and last week’s call — unless you count the Republican National Convention. And what I really want to do is to talk about *men* today—and in fact, what is good about ‘masculinity”. But let me touch on Politics for just a minute and tell you what I see as to what why Donald Trump’s speech relates to our brand:
1) The idea of “goodness”. We don’t define “good” at the Good Men Project (believe it or not), and we don’t even want to hold up a standard of what is good an what is not good.
However, we are helping people process a lot of information and help them through times of moral unceraintly.
2) Our editorial policies include first do no harm. And that means no racism, sexism, homophobia. Interestingly, Trump wasn’t the most homophobic Presidential candidate running — and then he brought in Pence as VP and that went out the window.
As for sexism, I don’t know video of how Trump treats women vs how Obama treats women. I don’t see how you could look at it and say Trump will do anything good for women. His *behavior* is simply not matching up to his campaign promises. To blame it on political correctness is to just try to bully his way through excusing really bad behavior.
And racism — the last example I saw of something Trump said that is overtly racist—-I can’t even repeat the words because I don’t want to let them see the light of day again. But they were overtly, clearly and explicitly racist.
3) And finally—even things like the Environment, which I am constantly bringing up—-here is the one thing where Trump has something akin to an actual policy—he says he will lift environmental regulations in order to create new jobs. So let me ask you—-is that really the best and only way to create new jobs, is to stop regulating companies who are destroying the environment? Wouldn’t it be BETTER to create jobs through environmental research and initiatives? Oh, that is not as easy because it requires thinking about how to solve a big problem? (I just did the conference call version of an eye roll there.
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So — let me get back to this idea of men and masculinity for a minute. Here is something I have been thinking about recently, and I would like the groups opinion of it.
There are a lot of people who come to our site and are angry that we talk about the quote unquote “bad” parts of masculinity. (And I want to be clear that that is what THEY are saying, not what I believe we are doing).
And why don’t we talk about the “good’ of masculinity. But the reason is….because the good traits of masculinity are “human” traits. I mean, there are a lot of really awesome things about men, and the things they do and the way they are socialized. But…say you take—just as an example—the ability to think logically and unemotionally under a lot of pressure. Or say you take physical strength. Or heroic actions. Or being a financial provider. Are there any reasons why women shouldn’t ALSO be those things? I think part of the problem is that all of the really GOOD things about masculinity are things we should encourage women and girls to do too. So then they become not strictly masculine any more.
But if anyone is seeing that differently, I would like to understand it better.
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Please listen to the recording to hear the variety and depth of responses from the other people on the call.
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Want to be a part of next week’s call? Want to be a part of the community of people who leading the conversation about the changing roles of men in the 21st century?
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Photo: Da Sal / Flickr
Was pondering all this as a submission, but it may serve better right here and now. First a question. If the softer traits are to be dismissed as human traits, why then do we say that a man that is being soft or vulnerable is “getting in touch with his feminine side”? I know why, because our sexism runs deep. Even if innocent it is difficult to identify, and sometimes may not need to be. It is, however part of what bothers men that pride themselves on strong, sound and honorable masculinity. We associate the bad with masculinity, but the… Read more »
Interesting how you use the Henry the V speech—on one of these very conference calls I had quoted a speech from that same play—the “Band of Brothers” speech, aka St. Crispin’s Day speech, which I used as an example of how man-shaming (and the ‘man-box, which I know you hate) had been around since the time of…well, Shakespeare. Your comment is complex and nuanced and thoughtful DJ, and I could respond to so many parts of it. But there is one in particular that I think is really important that I want to better understand. This is what I want… Read more »
This is an excellent point and post Lisa. I couldn’t agree more.
To answer your last, Michael. My statement that I have no feminine side is not, again, macho posturing. I could care less, women are not less to me. I love them in fact. I’m just not one of them, and I see everything that is me as part of my genetic make-up. I do not buy into the anima or the animus. To me, they, and not the masculine and feminine are social constructs. The masculine and feminine are genetic to me. We have to remember that Jung postulated all that back in a time when we were still sexually… Read more »
Had a really bad day today, 4 arrests, two staff injured last night … two arrests today and multiple staff talking about walking out because of safety issues. Initially, the reason I said this was to apologize in the event my writing is abrasive but the more I think about it, it falls in line with what I want to address. Lisa, you mentioned a variety of situations where you question the need for men to accommodate. What I believe is that some people don’t understand a segment of men who thrive on danger. Setting aside the need to always… Read more »
St. Crispin’s. My favorite of all. We do, I believe, see that speech a bit differently. Not a part of the box to me. I don’t see it as some lofty political speech or the ramblings of a leader that will remain tucked away in safety, viewing the battle on a map, convincing men to die for him. I don’t see it as the promise of a hundred virgins, or the macho silliness of a recruitment speech made by someone with a quota to meet. I don’t even see it as boxing or shaming men, but lifting them up. Well… Read more »
To answer your other question, Lisa (not sure where this is going to end up. Board is giving me fits). On the rest we agree, but it is what it is, and no society can exist without nestling upon the shoulders of its men. Perhaps one day, but not today. You are addressing a guy that has experienced much of it. I played that game when it was far more brutal, and even taught wrong. I once landed a textbook hit (as was taught to us in those days), that landed me in the hospital with a career ending fracture… Read more »
I agree that this was a very thoughtful and nuanced comment DJ. But what strikes me is that most of what you and Lisa seem to be “at odds about” – and that’s not the right phrase – is simply a matter of semantics. Example: I have those softer traits, but have no feminine side. Well, I do, but she sleeps next to me at night. My wife will tell you that I’m all guy, even annoyingly so sometimes. She also knows my other side, but sees that as masculine more than feminine, just another part of me. Whether we… Read more »
Hi Michael. Yes, not the words, because I’m not at all “at odds” with Lisa, but just furthering the discussion based upon my study, discussions, and personal experience, and doing so in the hope of bringing further understanding. Beyond that, to me, it is as subtle as semantics. It goes well deeper than that. I’m not contesting Lisa’s opinion, or reasoning for not promoting positive examples of masculinity because she sees them as human traits. My question was simply that although she my believe that, we, as a group, as a society do, in fact, demonstrate those positive masculine traits… Read more »
Lisa, I have a question for you. You know I respect you, or at least I hope you know I do. You’ve been nothing but fair and gracious to me so I have no personal bones to pick with you. And I think (correct me if I’m wrong) you’ve seen and read enough that you have a fair understanding as to who I am as a man, a husband, brother and Opa (German for grandfather). If you take excerpts out of the many things I’ve said here at GMP, there is no doubt that the same case can be stated… Read more »
Hi Tom, I do of course respect you and, as you said, have known you a great many years. I have a few questions/comments for you, because I really would like to understand a little more. You say “Masculinity is anything and everything a man wants to be.” And let’s start there, because I 100% agree with that. But why then, would you deny gay men the ability to live as a happily married couple? Also — do you think that violence is not toxic? The only traits we call “toxic” here are violence, bullying and sexism, racism and homophobia.… Read more »
Hi Lisa, I’m limited on time this morning but will respond to as much as I can. Starting with gay marriage. I’ve been married for 41 years now and my marriage did not go into effect until I stood at the alter and took my vows. My point of reference regarding gay marriage comes from my late brother and his life partner. Neither needed a slip of paper to determine or better yet validate their life commitment to one another. Although my family was accepting of my brothers partner, the partners family no to much. Accordingly, By taking legal measures,… Read more »
I “think” I have time to get through this… For starters, Trump is not my favorite and no, I am not thrilled with some of the things he’s said or some of what he believes. In fact, I have no problem hearing about what he’s said and done but that stops when there are blatant lies. Example … I have a friend who is VERY religious who posted something on face book which showed a news paper article claiming that Trump said some pretty crazy things about black. It took me less then a minute to verify that it was… Read more »
If all the good traits of masculinity are “human” traits, this presents us with only one of two possibilities. Either A: all the “bad” traits are ALSO human traits, in which case what exactly is “masculine” supposed to mean? or B the bad are strictly masculine, in which case I’d say your detractors have a point.
What do you think 8ball? What do you think masculine means?