This was a comment by CyberQuaker, on the post What if the ‘Nice Guys of OK Cupid is Harming Innocent People?’
I’ve been following niceguysofokc, and I’ve felt that most of it is justified. I was just like your brother in high school, but I learned not to use the term “friendzone,” as it stems from male sexual privilege. Guys who complain about being friendzoned only see women as sexual objects, and they are not interested in actual friendship. I recently saw someone brilliantly turn this around, as women being put into the “fuckzone,” and I feel if your guys saw that, they would understand what they were doing. Also, it might be beneficial for men to realize that complaining about women on a dating profile is not going to help them at all.
However, I also came across “fedorasofokc,” and much of that is just making fun of guys for wearing fedoras. Then there is “okcgoldmine,” which has some “Nice Guys,” but also makes fun of some people for just being geeky. Notably, that one is run by a man and occasionally makes fun of women’s profiles. Those kind of sites obviously cross over into bullying.
“Guys who complain about being friendzoned only see women as sexual objects, and they are not interested in actual friendship.” Let’s assume this is in fact true. So what!!!!!? Isn’t the entire hookup culture about seeing people as sex objects? Then why is there no whining and birching about hookup culture? I think CyberQuaker is just full of crap. Many of these men are interested in relationship. The last time I checked, most relationships (unless Platonic) involve sex. CyberQuaker, people who are quakers spend half their time praying for you and the other half preying on you! Now, how does… Read more »
Complete garbage, or are only women allowed to be attracted to men now? you’re a man and feel attracted to a woman and would love to be more than just friends? SEXIST MISOGYNIST ASSHOLE
Of course they’re not interested in friendship, otherwise they wouldn’t have expressed their feelings and then gotten friendzoned.
It’s ridiculous that on one hand people have no problem with a woman trying to force a friendship, but have a problem with a man not accepting the friendship.
1. If you ask a woman out and she says “No, but let’s be friends,” she’s just trying to soften the blow. You didn’t get friend zoned, you got rejected. No need to make up a new word when there’s already a perfectly good one that exists. 2. If you try to use friendship as a jumping off point for starting a romance, you have nobody to blame but yourself when this blows up in your face. 3. If you develop romantic feelings for an actual friend and she doesn’t feel the same way, that sucks for you but you… Read more »
Au contraire: Guys use the word “friendzone” because the woman–who delights and enthrals them as a unique person they’d like to have a romantic relationship with–does not reciprocate their romantic/sexual interest. The guy who sees women as objects doesn’t bother with the term “friendzone” because he’s already off to the nearest bar to find a warm, wet hole to stick it in, and he’s usually a lot more suave, smooth-talking and attractive (i.e. successful) because he’s had a lot of practice at it. And after he’s pumped-and-dumped some woman he picked up at the bar, she can go back to… Read more »
The fact that you think the only men to objectify women are “suave, smooth-talking and attractive” just shows that you don’t understand what’s going on. There are plenty of awkward, poorly adjusted, ugly guys who get so wrapped up in the idea of a woman or romance or sex that they ignore the reality of the person who’s right in front of them. Putting a woman on a pedestal is just as objectifying as treating her like she’s disposable. Complaining about the “friend zone” also bastardizes the word “friend.” Friendship is no longer something to want and enjoy for its… Read more »
Sorry, it’s not a fact because I don’t think that, which is incidentally why I didn’t say that.
But, could you explain why a guy can’t want friendship with a woman for its own sake, also desire a romantic relationship with her, feel disappointed and hurt when she does not want a romantic relationship, yet still want to continue the friendship? Or if a man can’t do it, is it possible that a woman can? I’m confused, because I have this notion in my mind that both scenarios have played out in my life.
Dude, scroll up three inches and look at what you wrote. It’s right there in black and white. If you meant something other than what those exact words mean, I don’t know what it is, because I can’t read your mind. I only have what you said to go on. If you like someone and they don’t like you (or vice versa) that sucks. But there’s already a perfectly good word for when you ask somebody out and they say no: rejected. If you were friends first, your relationship hasn’t changed and you should try to appreciate it for what… Read more »
Jonathan G:
You:
These are not the same.
Fine. Nothing annoys me more than Internet arguments that devolve into a lousy, little linguistic skirmish about what so-and-so actually said. For the sake of discussion, I’ll concede that my remarks were made specifically in reference to the alleged motivations of a guy who proposes a sexual relationship with a female friend, but that that I did not make the context explicit. Consider those words mooted and superseded by the pedantic version that follows: The original comment by CyberQuaker strikes me as a representative example of “womansplaining,” which I define as (from UrbanDictionary): “When a woman attempts to tell a… Read more »
“There are plenty of awkward, poorly adjusted, ugly guys who get so wrapped up in the idea of a woman or romance or sex that they ignore the reality of the person who’s right in front of them.” There are plenty of well-adjusted, handsome guys and girls who do exactly the same thing. Sexual relationships are often based on ignoring the reality of the person’s who is in front of them. That is partially why they work so well. “Complaining about the “friend zone” also bastardizes the word “friend.” Friendship is no longer something to want and enjoy for its… Read more »
“Sexual relationships are far far far better than friendships.”
Actually that’s not really true. Maybe the statement I should have made is that a good romantic relationship is far better than most friendships, in my personal experience.
Wait? Why is the comment that said bullying and mocking others is “Justified” heralded as a “Comment of the Day?” The idea of the friend zone does NOT stem from sexual privilege; it does not mean that someone feels entitled to sex. Being in the “friend zone” means that Person B does not see Person A as attractive/a viable romantic or sexual partner. Yes it’s usually referenced when Person A wants to have a romantic or sexual relationship with Person B, but It doesn’t assume that Person B is owed love/sex with Person A. It doesn’t assume that woman are… Read more »
Yeah, no…
I was not looking for sex, I was looking for a relationship. Someone I could cook for and who would be waiting for me at the end of our workday. I think that goes beyond friendship into something else.
“Guys who complain about being friendzoned only see women as sexual objects, and they are not interested in actual friendship.” Probably true in a lot of cases, maybe even most, but to say every man who complains about this is like this? Vast overstatement. Just because a man wants one thing doesn’t mean he only wants that one thing. Perhaps there’s an assumption here that a man can’t want sex and something else at the same time? For some of the guys, it’s not just disappointing because they want sex from the particular woman, it’s disappointing because they feel unattractive… Read more »
This is something I’ve been trying to get across to numerous people over the past few months. I used the term in high school and do you know what every single person who heard it thought? They didn’t think “he totally wants to bang her but can’t”, they thought “he would really like a relationship with this girl, but he is forced to accept that that will never happen, this is not a happy fact for him.” It doesn’t stem from male sexual privilege, it’s just been corrupted by it. I never believed that I was entitled to anything more… Read more »
And, frankly, if we’re talking about the online world, guys get made fun of for complaining about ANYTHING. Virtually any complaint or expression of frustration will be ridiculed for weakness, sexism, entitlement, you name it. When it comes to dating and relationships, apparently a man is just not supposed to complain about anything, ever.
Why, I think you’ve cracked the secret code!
@ Michael Philp
There’s nothing wrong with a guy simply wanting a romantic relationship with a woman
and it’s ridiculous that men are being pressure to accept friendships they don’t want.
rejecting an offer of friendship isn’t the end of the world.