This is a comment by John Smith on the post “Incentivizing Violence: When Will the Insanity End!?“
John Smith said:
“Actually, gun ownership per capita in Canada is less than half that of the US, despite the much larger amount of the population living in areas where carrying a gun is vital for safety from wildlife. 88.8 per 100 vs 30.8 per 100. England and Wales, somewhere with very strict gun laws, 6.2.
“The US has 4.14 firearm murders per 100,00 per year. Canada 0.76. The England and Wales 0.07. In developed nations gun ownership levels directly correlate with the number of firearm murders.
“Regardless of who is committing the murders the problem highlighted by the articular is the fact that attitude and ownership of guns is at the route of the problem. It is no good saying “NRA members and hunters don’t commit the murders” when they are the ones who are so staunchly against any form of control stopping guns getting in to the hands of more violent members of society. They may not be committing the murders but there lobbying most certainly makes them at least worthy of mention when discussing the route cause of gun violence.”
Photo credit: Flickr / paljoakim
Also, in the article, they mistakenly use the word “ROUTE” (direction in which something travels) for the word “ROOT” (place of origin). I really hate grammatical errors.
First and foremost–a “correlation” is not a proven fact nor a proven data set. When something correlates, it means it demands more research, because some of the data seems to have a cause/effect relationship or some other relationship. You can find a correlation between ANYTHING–a correlation however, is not a justification. Secondly–gun control does nothing but prevent honest people from obtaining tools for hunting or protecting themselves from the THUGS who illegally purchase them. Stricter laws do not prevent criminals from getting more guns. More laws do not make something illegal any less obtainable (drugs, prostitutes, weapons–you can pretty much… Read more »
Break down the murder rates by race/ethnicity and you quickly learn that Euro-Americans are no more criminally inclined than Europeans. Culture matters. Also… in developed nations the gun ownership level INVERSELY correlates with the probablity of genocidal holocausts. So EVEN IF (highly dubious, but, FTTOA let it pass), even if gun controls could prevent a few dozen psycho killings and a few thousand criminal killings per year (most, FYI, of fellow crimninals)…. they do so only at the price of facilitating government sponsored massacres of MILLIONS. Remember that the government is always armed. The world CANNOT be made perfect, there… Read more »
LOL….the picture reminds me of a VERY old Saturday Night Live spoof: “Show Us Your Gun”
What a classic!!!
On this topic, Mr. Stephen Pinker presented a different, and in my view, a better explanation for the rates of violence in the U.S. vs. Canada vs. Europe. In a nutshell, it’s this: law and order came late to large parts of the U.S. as opposed to Europe where law and order has been long established, and compared to Canada where the law was in place before colonization. Consider these ideas (supported by history): 1. Kings and rulers reduced the European continent to one of peace and security within the borders of their sovereign states long ago. Their “Wild West”… Read more »
I’m not sure that the pro- gun crowd perpetuates a lot of violence… AZ & CO are places where it is very easy to carry a firearm & nobody from a well regulated militia stepped up during the Gifford or Batman shootings. Guns, to a certain extent, may- no, probably- contribute to fatality incidents during violent encounters… We are a violent people in the US- but then we are still in our infancy as a nation. Maybe it is something in the water in the Western hemisphere- people were pushing each other off of property, practicing genocide & hunting species… Read more »
It’s the “root” of the problem, not the “route”. Perhaps Mr. Smith should do some research on his word usage as well as research on on violence (gun-related or otherwise) in both the countries he speaks of and the US. Where do those stats on gun ownership come from? Do you really think criminals in any country who are barred from possessing firearms would admit to they do anyway? The statement “Regardless of who is committing the murders the problem highlighted by the articular is the fact that attitude and ownership of guns is at the route of the problem,”… Read more »
Where do people get the idea that DV is ignored in North America, FAR FROM IT in fact.
So, we capture/turn-in/destroy all the guns. K….then the police will not need any guns, right?
Take away firearm murders and the US still has a higher rate of homicide than those other countries. There is no gun control that will keep people safe, just as there are no laws that stop people from getting illegal drugs. Above all, there is no excuse for abridging anyone’s right to self-defense. The root of the problem has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with violence. Repeal the drug laws that incentivize violence, remove the legal restrictions that make it hard for the poor to improve their economic situation, and work to build a culture where… Read more »
And further to this, you light find this paper illuminating: http://www.garymauser.net/pdf/KatesMauserHJPP.pdf
Now what are the rates in Finland and Switzerland, which are also countries with high rates of gun ownership, on a par with the US and Canada?
What do those data points do to your hypothesis?
From what I understand, Israel is a pretty heavily armed place. What’s their firearms murder rate? I’m also wondering about regional differences. Even if everyone in Wyoming owns a gun, does that mean that the murder rate is really high there? Somehow I doubt it. The specific areas with high rates of ownership may not be the places with the high rates of murder. I bet there is an even higher correlation to population density – the larger the population density, the higher the murder rate. Maybe we should restrict the size of cities as well? Correlation is not causation.… Read more »