These comments are from KKZ and Tom B. on “Ask the Feminist Answers: Definitions, Recommendations and Media Violence Against Men.“
KKZ said:
I’m interested in exploring the topic of male disposability, from issues of war to issues of the dirty/dangerous jobs going to men in general. I can’t help feeling like what you’re saying is the truth, but what are we supposed to do about it? Stop sending our men to war? As I recall, it’s not women who are starting and pushing for war to begin with. Should wives not permit their husbands, or mothers their sons, to sign up for military service? Guess it doesn’t matter as long as Selective Service is a thing. I suppose what you would want is for women to start signing up for service themselves, volunteering for the most dangerous missions, and/or seeking jobs in the dirty/dangerous non-military industries. I don’t know what to say to that other than everyone has the right to pursue whatever job they want, blue collar, white collar, whatever. And if no one wants the dirty jobs that must get done… well, I don’t know what to say to that either, because it’s not like there’s some less-worthy third gender we can stick with those jobs because we don’t want them (a la most Americans’ attitudes toward hard-labor farming jobs that typically go to immigrants).
Truth be told, every time I see a man or woman working in an undesirable job, I wonder what it is that put them there and keeps them there. Circumstance? Inheritance? Sense of duty (It’s a dirty job but somebody’s gotta do it)? For example, when I watch How It’s Made and it shows factory workers on a line, EVERY TIME the thought that goes across my mind is “How on earth do they go back to that job day after day? Don’t they want anything better for themselves?” Bam, there’s my white upper-middle-class Privilege showing. I not only had the opportunity to go to college and choose my own path, it was more or less a given, the expectation for me. I was groomed specifically into that niche; had I chosen to reject it and pursue a blue-collar job, every eyebrow in my family and peer community would go up. And because of this Privilege, I can’t even comprehend being in the position where a factory-line job is “good enough” for someone. I know how elitist and uncompassionate that sounds, I’m just being honest.
Tom B. said:
Ya know it kind of bothers me a lot when people look down on those who do dirty or the so called undesirable jobs. In my former career, (part of my job had to do with settlements of workmans comp and GL cases) I worked with all levels of employees. Weird thing is that when I met a lot of these factory workers, I found them to be far less complicated and happier in general. Where as you wonder how they could stand it, I looked at them and envied them.
At the end of their day, they were done, go home and hang out with their loved ones. The end of my day often meant going back to my hotel room, or going to a dinner meeting or grabbing the next flight out to my next destination.
Maybe because I grew up in a blue collar family, I have a different perspective. But the difference between me and my dad … he was home far more then I was. Between my dad and I, which one of us had the so called “male privilege?” My dad busted his ass to provide an environment that accommodated my mom being home with the kids. I busted my ass so as to provide an environment that my wife stayed home with the kids. My SIL (fireman) is providing an environment where my daughter is able to stay home with the kids. There simply is no “privilege.” None of us accomplished what we did because we were/are men. It’s simply doing what you need to do.
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Photo credit: Flickr / Seattle Municipal Archives
There’s big difference among dirty jobs and undesirable jobs and hard jobs. Those are three different categories. For me, the desirability of a job is about whether it’s monotonous or not. Or if it’s a job I have a lot of control over or not. Of if I have some sense of making a notable difference or just being a cog in a machine. Or if there’s a sense that I’ve learned something, built something, or grown in some way. A job can be incredibly gross, messy, and exhausting and be a great job. Surgeons, for example, seem to be… Read more »
Tom, great perspective about lives being seemingly less complicated. I was raised and groomed much like your family, in Milwaukee, WI a blue collar town. However like many others, I was told from K5 on to get a good education, get a good job, experience life, then settle down and start a family. Somewhere after my first college degree and stint in corporate America, I took a detour and joined the Army reserves. Despite the shock waves I sent through my family, I learned much more than my college chai-drinking, existentialist, liberal, all-about-me, education ever gave me. (note my personal… Read more »