This is a comment by Alastair on the post “Why Do Men Need Male-Only Groups on Campus?“
Alastair said:
Some points on men and women in higher education.
First, we should distinguish between the position of male students on campus and the place of male students in university. My impression is that the sort of issues that male students as a group might face on campus are fairly minor compared to those faced by female students. This is not to deny that there are issues that affect male students, or that these issues are worthy of attention, but just to point out that men, while a minority, are very, very far from being a persecuted one.
Second, the situation really varies from field to field and at different stages of education (here is a helpful diagram of PhDs awarded by gender for each subject in 2009 in the US). Male students really have the advantage in many disciplines. In the diagram I just linked, it can be seen that woman really dominate in the social sciences, education, and in language and literature. However, in engineering and the hard sciences, men represent the vast majority of doctorates. Only 37% subjects have a gender ratio of 2:3 or closer to parity. In short, while the overall number of PhDs awarded in the US may be close to gender parity, further education has quite pronounced gender polarities for particular disciplines.
Third, not all disciplines are equal when it comes to career opportunities, prestige, or future remuneration. Levels of funding will also differ from discipline to discipline. On each of these fronts, male-dominated disciplines tend to do considerably better than female-dominated disciplines. Even with women-friendly hiring policies, men will typically find it easier to get tenure track jobs and are considerably less likely to have to sacrifice having a family for an academic career. Even within fields, women often predominate in the less prestigious sub-disciplines.
Fourth, men typically dominate highest faculty positions and at the top of fields. Men are much more likely to experience career success in academia.
Fifth, when we look at the figures relative to particular points in education, it might become clearer that males actually aren’t doing all that badly in higher education at all. While about 33% more women than men may enter higher education in the US, slightly more men are receiving doctorates, and the gender difference becomes even more pronounced after that point in men’s favour. This would seem to suggest that men may even be thriving.
It would also suggest that the real problem for males doesn’t seem to lie in higher education, but in secondary and primary education. I could suggest a number of reasons for why males seem to outperform females at the top levels of education, but underperform at the lower levels. Here are a few:
1. The fact that higher education favours a different style of intelligence and learning from lower levels of education, privileging assertive, vocal, challenging, independent-minded, confident, combative, disputational, creative, and risk-taking thinkers, rather than thinkers who conform to set expectations and demands. These character traits are more common among males and, while often stifled or under-appreciated in lower levels of education come into their own at the highest levels of education.
2. The fact that most teachers at lower levels are female, while faculties in higher education are dominated by males.
3. The fact that primary and secondary education are typically non-competitive, egalitarian, conformist, inclusive, highly sensitive, communal, non-physical, quiet and sedentary, non-confrontational, affirming, and are test and grade-oriented. This doesn’t exactly play to boys’ strengths and tends to lead to the stigmatization of many male traits.
3. The fact that the male population has a greater level of variance than the female population. As a result, men are more likely to dominate at the top and at the bottom. In the lower levels of education, the greater level of male variance will lead to a greater number of boys failing. However, as the cream of the cream is only selected in the very highest levels, it is here that the other side of the greater male variance will come into its own.
4. The kicking in of the differences resulting from women’s motivations, choices, and self-investments in light of marriage, pregnancy, and child-rearing.
5. The lower motivation for women to assume the greater personal and professional costs and risks associated with pursuing a career in academia.
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HeatherN There are gendered biological differences. They’re inherent. There, I said it. Send the re-educators. The question is whether to penalize boys because they don’t act like girls or to deal with the boys’ different behaviors. One thing that could be done is provide the boys the opportunity during recess to run around like barbarians, coming back to class with the piss and vinegar run out of them, a couple of bloody noses and some ripped pants. Those were the days. Then they’ll settle down. You could skip the artsy-craftsy stuff where the stay-inside-the-lines decorations on your workbook count for… Read more »
Of course, if males are being failed at the primary and secondary education levels, then it won’t be long before they’re under-represented in higher education as well.
So as much as people seem willing to convince themselves that men are still riding high, if the current situation persists it will not last forever. I’m sure some will be glad of that too.
HeatherN.
We’re not talking about bad behavior. Either you know better or somebody pretty slick has fooled you pretty well.
We’re talking about differences.
Clear, now?
Indeed. Apparently I am either lying or naive. Thanks.
All snark aside, what Alistair was talking about in that second list were gendered behavioural differences and how they might affect learning in primary and secondary school. This includes behaviour which is determined to be “bad” (i.e. being energetic, unable to sit still, unable to concentrate on one topic for too long, etc). He actually specifically mentions the stereotypes that girls are more sedentary, quieter, less assertive, etc.
3. The fact that primary and secondary education are typically non-competitive, egalitarian, conformist, inclusive, highly sensitive, communal, non-physical, quiet and sedentary, non-confrontational, affirming, and are test and grade-oriented. This doesn’t exactly play to boys’ strengths and tends to lead to the stigmatization of many male traits. So, I guess boys who are “non-competitive, egalitarian, . . . inclusive, highly sensitive, . . . non-physical, quiet and sedentary,” etc. are “feminized” males who should be stigmatized? How about avoiding stereotyping both boys and girls and viewing students as individuals? How about allowing students, whether they’re boys or girls, to be individuals?… Read more »
I feel like screaming sometimes. I feel like taking on this comment of the day point by point, but I won’t. I’ve been writing about this stuff for 20 years. (Even Christina Hoff Sommers has only been at it for about 14.) I’m tired. Boys aren’t doing as well in school as girls and men aren’t doing as well as women in college. Period. Every teacher knows this. Why it’s happening isn’t clear, but it’s a problem that has to be addressed. It sure was when it was young females seemed to be behind in the early 1990s– even though… Read more »
It would also suggest that the real problem for males doesn’t seem to lie in higher education, but in secondary and primary education. I could suggest a number of reasons for why males seem to outperform females at the top levels of education, but underperform at the lower levels.
I think the data has been showing that for years. Even when accounting for things like race and econimic status girls still out do boys in nearly every metric in most elementary levels.
I quite like the first half of your comment, in the way it breaks down exactly what is happening in higher education with regards to gender. When I spent time in Egypt and Jordan, about half the university students I came across were women, and yet when I asked them, the whole point of them going to university was so that they could get themselves a good husband. That wasn’t true for everyone, of course…but that was true for a lot of them. Anyway…I was a bit less impressed with the second half of your comment, about primary and secondary… Read more »
“So as a hyperactive girl, I was constantly told to sit still. I was reprimanded for talking out of turn. I was constantly being taught how I should behave in order to be a good student…and there was great pressure put on me to change my behaviour. I saw boys in my class who were just as energetic, but they weren’t reprimanded as much. ” Where was that? At my school girls had MASSIVE leeway, quite literally girls talking for 5-10 minutes, soon as the boys talked theyd be told to stfu. Boys got far far far far far more… Read more »
Grading Bias has been traced all the way back to Kindergarten – so if you want to deal with the ongoing issues of bias in education there is no point looking at College (That’s the Result) – no point looking at High School (the damage is already done) – go right back to the beginning and ask when did Kindergarten get changed from a pre school to a place to be damaged? Boys are lagging behind girls in school; on average, they get worse grades, take fewer advanced classes and are less likely to graduate. To find out why boys… Read more »