This comment was by brad, in response to the post “The World Needs More Teds Than Barneys” by Mark Radcliffe.
I agree with the title of this post, ie the that the world needs more Teds than Barneys, but I disagree with the black or white division of men into Ted & Barney categories. In college I had a friend who was always complaining that women would choose “charismatic bad boys” over “quiet nice guys” like him. I listened to this for years, and never had the guts to tell him that the problem wasn’t women… the problem was him. He was quiet, yes, but that didn’t automatically make him a nice guy — many guys who think they are “nice guys” actually aren’t, in part because they don’t strive to improve their ability to communicate and support their friends and partners. This particular friend was actually a really hard guy to like — rude, self-centered, and really adversarial and difficult to talk to, even when you’d known him for years. He’s neither a Barney nor a Ted.
One of my best friends now is the opposite… a guy who can confidently approach any woman at any bar and fare very well, and who also happens to be one of the nicest, most sincere and caring people I’ve ever known. He’s more of a Ted than a Barney, but based on the logic of this article he should be dismissed as a Barney.
My point, if I have to boil it down, is that Teds should be careful about vilifying men who might appear to be Barneys, and should instead look at themselves for areas where they can grow and get better at connecting to people, whether romantically or otherwise, and at being a more complete person. Yes, being “on” at a bar is a skill, but we can all walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. The conversation skills that help you meet new people can actually overlap quite a bit with the skills that make you a supportive friend, or a good listener. And it’s a little ridiculous to suggest that guys who are good at approaching women in bars are able to do so only at the expense of financial responsibility, cooking skills, and neglect of their mothers.
And I say all of this from the perspective of someone who was paralyzed by shyness for twenty five years and, while still not the most outgoing person, still believes his life has been greatly enriched by learning to be more bold in public.
—Photo AP/Matt Sayles
I disagree Lucy. Confidence, charisma, and style are all skills that are not determined by being wealthy nor does it cost much financially to develop them. I can understand where the assumption comes from, a lot of wealthy people have these skills and assume they come as part of being wealthy, and what most people don’t realize is that most often the reason the wealthy have these skills is either because they developed confidence, charisma, and style before they were wealthy and used this skills to propel themselves to wealth or once they were wealthy they were in an environment… Read more »
The thing that most worries me about Barney is: if you wish to emulate his (better) qualities, it sure helps to be privileged. [I]t’s a little ridiculous to suggest that guys who are good at approaching women in bars are able to do so only at the expense of financial responsibility, cooking skills, and neglect of their mothers. That it is, but it may come at the expense of quite a bit of money and time. Impression management and personal upkeep cost money. Stylish clothes and tooth whitening cost money. Activities and experiences that make you more interesting and give… Read more »
Its not as clear as Teds vs Barneys. Both have their goods and both have their bads (as was explored here and in the original post).
I’ve never had much success in the whole dating/relationship arena but it seems to me that the one needs some Barney qualities and some Ted qualities in order be a good, dateable guy.
In short its a matter of being a Ted vs being a Barney its a matter of being a TedNey.
I remember my first couple weeks at a new gym. A handsome guy openned the door for me walking in and I thought, “what a nice man.” I was pretty nervous about being in the gym atmosphere. Later while I was on the floor working out, and he was working out and talking to a friend on a machine turned the opposite direction from me, I heard part of his converation with his friend that was talking about using a woman a certain way and chunking her. Both men chuckled about it. The language he used was much worse and… Read more »
Absolutely. We all are a complicated mix. And we nearly all speak/act one way in private and one way in pubic and even in public/private there are varying contexts. Time is pretty much the only clarifier and even then people can fool you. One has to do their best to select friends and lovers while keeping an open heart and a strong backbone.
There is no such thing as a “nice guy.” At least not in the sense they are so often portrayed: The sweet wonderful guy who keeps trying over and over and keeps getting trounced on by women who “don’t know what they want.” As The Editors have described these boys are often not really all that nice and here’s why (let me preface this by saying that this is highly generalized. There are many deeper nuances to the situation and not all “nice guys” exhibit all of the characteristics I describe below): 1. They Blame Others: As the article has… Read more »
That doesn’t sound like a nice guy; he sounds like a stalker, there’s a difference! Nice guys don’t stalk.