This is a comment by Eric M. on the post “Four Things a Parent Must Never Do When Angry“.
Peder,
You misunderstand what spanking is. Your statement, “Spanking is more of an anger-driven reaction than a calculated teaching method” is true of any form of discipline if driven by anger.
You’ve made the assumption that all spanking is beating, driven by uncontrolled anger, rather than loving correction. I speak of what I know. Personally. I have personal knowledge based on my own experience, my children’s experience, and into the thousands of of people I knew growing up and have dealing with into adulthood—a significant sample size.
There is no one-size-fits-all universal form of discipline that is appropriate for use for all children at all times, in all situations. Spanking is one option that has been and can be used effectively for many children.
Photo credit: Flickr / D Sharon Pruitt
I think there has to be a difference draw between children and adults. Children aren’t responsible for their own actions therefore their will must be treated differently. Spanking in that sense is no different from any other discipline in that the child’s will is not held to the level of an adult. The reason the correction is being given is the parent is (or at least should) be trying to raise the child to make good decisions on their own. To do so the child must learn the process of consequence in regards to his/her choices. While I think their… Read more »
we spank children becuase they are harder to reason or negotiate with them usually when we are with other adults we just have to hope they learn to grow the fuck up
Actually, when you think about it, spanking is far less cruel nowadays than lack of access to technology, social media, and opportunities to make friends. For an adolescent, nothing is more important than a social life, good grades, and success in hobbies and passions. The worst punishment in today’s world is humiliation and a lack of access to opportunities and friends. At least a spanking is private, over with quickly, and gives you something physical to complain about.
Actually, spanking has effects on the development of a child’s brain far greater than the effects of temporary social deprivation on the brain of an adolescent.
Objective evidence? How does that explain the millions of adults who’ve done very well emotionally, professionally, and in relationships, such as having lifelong happy marriages and well adjusted children?
What you just stated is anecdotal, which really isn’t evidence. Here’s more anecdote which is just as valid as yours: Many people have been mentally, sexually, or physically abused and actually turned out much less likely to abuse their own kids because of their own experience. That doesn’t mean the abuse was alright because a lot of us turned out healthy in spite of our parents.
First, I was responding to the statement that: “spanking has effects on the development of a child’s brain far greater than the effects of temporary social deprivation on the brain of an adolescent.” That is a claim that must be supported by biochemical evidence of scientific fact about the brain, which should be able to be supported by biological evidence, not just behavioral. Secondly, if my statement is anecdotal, yours is far more so, since you have claimed here that mental, physical, and sexual abuse can be beneficial to the victim(s) by making them better parents that those who were… Read more »
Eric,
Aside from the research, for me at the end of the day I find that my children have been growing up incredibly fine without it. If I don’t need to, I’d rather leave that option out.
Peder – do you thing, dad – your way. Not judging anyone for how they choose to discipline their children as long as they aren’t being abused. Simply disabusing the erroneous notion that spanking is, by definition, “beating” and/or abusive, any more than any other form of discipline is, unless taken to an extreme and done without control and proper motive. There is no one-size-fits-all-children-and-circumstances form of discipline. Children are individuals and its best if they are treated as such. For instance, I can count on one hand the number of times that I and my children were spanked. However,… Read more »
I think the usage of “universal” is inappropriate in the response. You have to know the actual universe to make any claim of what the universe is “not”. God knows you only knownyour backyard.
Anyhow, there are psychological techniques far more effective and you don’t even have to raise a finger nor decibel. Genius.
You’ve made the assumption that all spanking is beating, driven by uncontrolled anger, rather than loving correction.
Here is the thing about that argument: you would never spank an adult who misbehaved. If spanking is a harmless, yet useful “loving correction,” why not do it to adults? I think people do not spank adults because an adult would hit them back. A child is less likely and less capable of fighting back, and they are far easier to frighten with the threat of future violence.
Some people do spank adults. There are groups of people into Domestic Discipline (usually husband over wife, but I’m sure there is the reverse). Based often in religious dynamics, it uses physical correction, as well as things like “corner time” timeouts, writing lines (much like a kid would do) to deal with disobedience in the household. Seems more like kink and d/s play to me, but there you have it.
Actually, I’m not sure there are DD households wherein the woman is the spanker. This seems much more like conservative traditional models. The dudes who like discipline are probably doing it flat out for the kink.
Look up “taken in hand movement” if you want to gag. It is a growing sect that believes that husbands should regularly spank their wives. If the wife behaves well, the spanking is “kinky”, and ends in sex. If the wivfe behave badly, the spanking is savage, and still ends in sex. Either way, the wife does ot know what kind of beating she is going to get until she is “taken in hand”, bare bottom accross her husband’s knee.
Oh, I’ve seen it ;). Hey, I mean…if it floats the boat I guess go for it, but just admit to being kinky.
I am not as sanguine as you. The testimonials of “taken in hand” women change over time. I am not sure it remains a 100% choice for long. It quickly becomes part of the family, and community, culture. Like a sect or cult, it starts as something people choose to do, but quicl;y transforms into an identity. It is hard to drop an identity. Many religions have a bright and convenient entry door, but over time the exit becomes more and more inaccessible (and the cost of exit becomes larger and larger). Should we police bizzar religions, just because they… Read more »
Oh Neither would I…..
@Julie Gillis: Yup.
Julie, there is discussion of including women in physical punishment such as caning, but so far, women are not subject to public beatings as a form of punishment:
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/singapore/TI4P234TIAJ7G27GL
Even in the United States, physical discipline of male children in school has allways far more common than for female children.
I don’t think anyone should beat anyone. I’m not a fan of corporal punishment for kids, not at all.
I’m curious if it’s ever needed for things like playing with a lighter inside the house, what method can be used to show the danger of such activity especially to young minds that don’t think that far ahead?
“Here is the thing about that argument: you would never spank an adult who misbehaved. If spanking is a harmless, yet useful “loving correction,” why not do it to adults?”
Are you suggesting that adults should be disciplined like children? Time outs, no TV or cell phone use for two weeks? Not sure how many adults would go for that.
Time outs and taking away a TV or cell phone is nothing like hitting another person because they did something you did not like. I assume you would not strike an adult who misbehaved, so why is it okay to strike a child?
Why can’t you forcibly restrict an adult to where you say as long as you say? Why can’t you forcibly take an adult’s cell phone if they disobey you?
Perhaps because adults and children are not the same and therefore can’t be treated the same.
One could forcibly restrict an adult or take their cell phone, but that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about an adult striking a child to teach the child to “behave,” and considering this act “a loving correction.” If striking someone is such a great teaching method, why limit it to children? There must be a reason beyond adults and children simply not being the same, the most obvious being that the spanker might fear the adult hitting them back. Of course children and adults are not the same, but that has nothing to do with… Read more »
“If striking someone is such a great teaching method, why limit it to children? ” If taking their cell phone away is such a great teaching methods, why limit it to children? A reasonable mind would recognize that adults don’t have authority over other adults or the responsibility to discipline other adults by any such means. Hopefully their parents took care of that. “And while I am sure people will try to find the “nuance” between abusing a child and spanking them, I truly fail to see it.” I doubt they care. I know I don’t. Feel free to discipline your… Read more »
Many corrections used on children, if done to adults would probably be considered abuse. Withholding money, deprivation of liberty by timeouts, etc.
“Here is the thing about that argument: you would never spank an adult who misbehaved. If spanking is a harmless, yet useful “loving correction,” why not do it to adults?”
What are you talking about? Lots of jurisdictions spank adults who misbehave. Only they usually use canes, sticks or whips. And it is not considered “loving.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_corporal_punishment
The only reason the sexually sadistic element of spanking is so easily ignored is because it’s been a norm since children were viewed as property rather than human beings with rights.