Jeremy Brunger deconstructs the Men’s Rights Movement, piece by twisted piece.
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I remember being told by a rather popular friend of mine in college, he playing the wooing sage and me the loser at romance, that “women don’t respect you unless you treat them like a bitch.” At the time he didn’t know I was gay and that, as such, I couldn’t care less if I attract women, but I took his advice as a general sort of platform for how straight men thought of themselves. He later assaulted his girlfriend while on cocaine and had a restraining order put out on him. The last time I saw him he had his arm around a girl, barely 20 from the looks of it, who didn’t bat an eyelash as he reminisced aloud on the event aforementioned: we were drunk, I had missed my friend, and in fact, I hardly even registered the absurdity of it all myself. He had no problem getting girls to be with him for flings, not for meaningful relationships, but he had by all appearances long since given up on those. The saddest thing is, he took his own advice—“treat them like a bitch”—and it worked. Rarely was he without a beautiful woman in his orbit, on his arm, or in his sports car. Sadder yet is that I have known men, still free to roam in the public at large, who treated women even worse. One of them, also a social butterfly, had the girl he impregnated kicked down a flight of stairs so that she would miscarry. Later on, she did.
But here’s the problem with the men’s rights movement: it isn’t full of nice guys. It’s full of assholes who wish they could talk down to women, but don’t have the courage, however tasteless, to do it.
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That women might still be attracted to abuse, after all the hard work of activism since the 1960’s and up to the present day, angers me dearly, but it ought to anger straight men more. I have little stake in the game except as a humanist, and as a son whose mother was victimized by men for much of her life. I am a feminist by default. Men who seek romance should not expect women who want to be treated like cattle, and, of course, neither should women desire such treatment.That would be the basis of a real men’s right movement. What movement there is in this direction, as it is, is an entirely paltry affair. Yes, the nice guys still have trouble getting laid (though not as much as some might think), and the assholes still trap women who don’t know any better. But here’s the problem with the men’s rights movement: it isn’t full of nice guys. It’s full of assholes who wish they could talk down to women, but don’t have the courage, however tasteless, to do it. This is why it isn’t a movement, nor even a moral problematic. It’s only a plea for social injustice. And no, lest you think I’m shadowboxing with figments of the Information Age, I won’t dignify their growing venues by linking to them.
Until very, very recently in our history, it would not be out of place for a boy to rape a girl and get by with it, or for a husband to beat the hell out of his wife.
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Social movements always occur in reaction to something. If you read enough Hegel, you start to see how they move in interlocking spirals of provocation and reaction. As such, feminism is a reaction to a history dominated by men. But it is a proper movement because it begins from a subaltern, oppressed position. Until very, very recently in our history, it would not be out of place for a boy to rape a girl and get by with it, or for a husband to beat the hell out of his wife. Women’s families might not have been okay with it—or, for many, they might not have cared at all—but the law and social opinion at large would have entirely sanctioned this abuse. Second wave feminism was hard-line because that which engendered it was hard-line. Women didn’t burn their bras (that is a myth), but they did start to radically inspect their positions in this world, because radicalism was all they had. Many women were practically enslaved to the domestic sphere—hell, Engels wrote about it in the nineteenth century, and many of his descriptions weren’t that far off well into the twentieth. Agency and free will were but dreams to most women in the West then, as they are to most women abroad now. Such is a great pain undeserved.
Now, we have a men’s right movement that models itself on feminism, appropriates the language of social justice, and assigns historical privilege to men who can’t get laid.
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Remember I Love Lucy? That show, based entirely off of Lucy’s schemes to imitate Ricky, was considered progressive in the 1950’s. Is there any wonder the 60’s happened or that its women wrote manifestos? Oppressed people, in liberating themselves, tend to think of the world in extremes. Free love was the opposite of love enslaved and so that became the goal. Before the gendered workplace transformations of the 1970’s, the horror of knowing one’s options, as a woman, were limited to starving, whoring, or marriage must have been a nightmare. We have plenty of testimony that it was. The second wave feminists met with much opprobrium in their time, but that resistance of orthodoxy didn’t consider itself righteous in the same way as feminism. Now, we have a men’s right movement that models itself on feminism, appropriates the language of social justice, and assigns historical privilege to men who can’t get laid: a hilarious proletariat of genitals. First as tragedy and then as farce …
They blame feminism for invading history and for turning them into victims, borrow the logic of leftism for their own misuse, and refuse to recognize that the very first insight of feminism is that women aren’t sex objects.
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There is no systematic oppression keeping guys from romantic success or from having a fair go in the workforce. But getting laid is the men’s rights movement’s entire raison d’etre. They blame feminism for invading history and for turning them into victims, borrow the logic of leftism for their own misuse, and refuse to recognize that the very first insight of feminism is that women aren’t sex objects. These wayward, wannabe heroes of masculinity are blind to a few things. If your whole complaint boils down to “women won’t put out for me,” you don’t get to blame feminism for your woes, because you clearly have no concept of it in the first place. There is a maniac dissonance between the object of men’s rights criticism and its own self-righteousness. It isn’t like complaining that one’s employer doesn’t pay high wages or that the government doesn’t recognize certain groups of people. There is no one-to-one correspondence between a men’s rights activist and a feminist. Feminists want to make it so that women aren’t beaten to death, treated like walking sex machines, or impoverished by a capitalist economy that institutionally devalues their labor. Such a goal isn’t a plot; it’s necessary progress. Well, maybe turning History into Herstory was a bit much. But saying that women who don’t want to marry into servitude suffer from false consciousness is however, a plot of the most perverted sort.
That women have to worry about such monstrous things should appall every man who is a man and convert him to feminism on the spot. There is no other side to this that can possibly be called social justice, for the opposite of feminism isn’t men’s rights: it’s pure barbarity.
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Saying we live in a rape culture isn’t a conspiracy theory; saying we live in a culture ruled by frigid women is. If rape is an alarmist term, why do so many of them happen on college campuses to women seeking the higher education, presumably in an atmosphere less tainted by the savageries of the outside world? It probably isn’t healthy for a woman to walk outside her door and have the body tense itself in preparation for violence—but that’s the world we in, and men’s rights activism is only going to make it worse. At least 1 in 4 women will be victims of sexual assault. That’s not a lunatic theory, that’s objective fact. The anarcho-feminist Emma Goldman, one of the reasons why Western women have anything at all today, would spin in her grave should she witness such environs. That women have to worry about such monstrous things should appall every man who is a man and convert him to feminism on the spot. There is no other side to this that can possibly be called social justice, for the opposite of feminism isn’t men’s rights: it’s pure barbarity.
If you can’t get a woman to have dinner with you or decipher the beauty in your deficits, it’s your fault, not the fault of a mytho-historical conspiracy of bitches.
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Plenty of women want relationships with men who are literate, if plain, and who work for their money instead of being filthy rich. Finding personal meaning in a reactionary, misogynistic movement that turns sex into a civil right is not the way to go about pursuing romance. If you can’t get a woman to have dinner with you or decipher the beauty in your deficits, it’s your fault, not the fault of a mytho-historical conspiracy of bitches. Blaming your lack of sex appeal on the activists who made it so that your own mother didn’t have to suffer the abuses of patriarchy from cradle to grave (for we all have mothers!) is probably the most unattractive thing I can think of. If this is how a man thinks of a woman, it only makes sense she’d have nothing to do with him. Not skimming off the bottom of the barrel isn’t anti-male discrimination. It’s enlightenment. Jack London was right when he wrote that women keep civilization together, while selfish men lead it into entropy. The only right men have in the field of romance is the right to meet women who are smart enough to care about themselves.
I, for one, hope the feminist enlightenment persists and that the curious dialectic of the men’s rights movement withers away sooner rather than later. It has the same flavor of white pride, which is only a cover for the unpardonable disgrace that is white supremacy. And it’s making the rest of us men look bad, even those of us who observe the whole sordid movement from afar.
Editor’s Note: This post is in no way meant to question or dismiss legitimate groups and efforts that advocate for better treatment of men—without attacking or denigrating women or feminism—in areas such as child custody and mental health care, as well as for recognition that men are also victims of violence and domestic abuse.
Originally published on RealTalk.
Photo—Micolo J/Flickr
That whole damn article is a quagmire of ignorance, Dunning–Kruger effect, strawmanning, dismissal of real issues and shaming, holyshit!
“I’m sure similar concerns have been raised about shelters for female victims right?” I doubt most people want to live next to a battered woman’s shelter. In more conservative areas those women would likely be thought of as whores and degenerates. “Where are all the educational programs for boys that they already have.” They’re called scholarships and loans. Sports teams. What else do you want? “Where are all the rights that are afforded the accused in rape cases that they already have.” Most people accused of rape aren’t prosecuted. Most cases fall through before court for lack of evidence. And… Read more »
I doubt most people want to live next to a battered woman’s shelter. In more conservative areas those women would likely be thought of as whores and degenerates. I have honestly never heard of anyone saying they don’t want female victims living near them because they might get loose and start endangering the community. But maybe its possible. They’re called scholarships and loans. Sports teams. What else do you want? To have the help come in sooner where its really needed. Tossing a scholarship to a guy when he’s 18 doesn’t help much when he can barely do any school… Read more »
He didn’t actually do this.
But hey, why start being correct now? 🙂
Yeah I just sorta skipped over that part but I don’t know who he is accusing of doing this.
Oh, jeez. I don’t hate men. I hate people who whine for what they *already have.*
Please keep responding. You are totally going to talk your way out of this.
The MRA’s aren’t whining about what they have. They are protesting against what they don’t have, eg equality in some areas of society like family law, Domestic violence support, the fact that genital mutilation of boys is still legal whilst even similar surgeries for girls is illegal (Not just the extreme forms of FGM but the less invasive forms too).
Well, most everyone is bound to resent ingrates, selfish & thoughtless people, and those who do indeed ‘whine about what they already have’- but were I in your shoes Jeremy, I would be quite reticent to presume to know -on any appreciable scale- what people (however you would group them) aggregately & actually have and don’t have. And I would really lean away from presuming that the primary objective denominator to collectively determine who has what, and who has it ‘worse’ is to first divide & group by gender. If you want to judge people (individually based on your own subjective experiences) or… Read more »
So where are all those services for male victims of abuse that they already have. FYI one of the first (possibly the first) shelter for male victims of sex trafficking in the US started construction in NC last year and the locals are saying they don’t want it there because they are worried, “those boys are gonna get out and cause trouble around the community”. I’m sure similar concerns have been raised about shelters for female victims right? Where are all the educational programs for boys that they already have. Despite boys lagging behind in education at nearly every level… Read more »
@ Jeremy Brunger At this point I suppose you hate men so much that it doesn’t matter what anyone says. Your mind is made up and that’s too bad. Not for me or any of the other guys here. What does your opinion mean to me? Not much. far as your ranting is concerned, no one can take anything you said seriously so it probably wouldn’t even indirectly affect me. I get it. You’re a man and you’re gay so you don’t feel you were invited into the club. I’m half white and half Asian. Everyone in the white neighborhood… Read more »
I ran funding systems for Victorian (Australia) state schools up to the mid nineties. From the early nineties the advocacy held it that western schools were not “girl friendly”. As a consequence many aspects were changed including curriculum and it’s methods of delivery. By the mid nineties there were programs for girls in every school in my state and nothing for boys anywhere. This all started with a study by Carol Gilligan involving interviews with seventy odd girls in two high schools in the US. She was subsequently censured by the peak psychologists body in the US for refusing to… Read more »
To some, it seems, we’re still on day one of the project. It begs the question. Just how far behind do boys need to be before feminists will concede that our schools are now sufficiently girl friendly?
I would also ask. If helping girls helps everyone then wouldn’t helping boys also help everyone? Surely increasing the education level of everyone is a better way than increasing the education level of some and willfully ignoring the lack of education in others?
Advantage over who? Women? Talk about zero sum games. At any rate if boys and men are dropping out of school you’re going to have to convince me it’s because of women and the structures set up in their favor at the cost of boys. How do high schools cast them out and why don’t they stay in school? Most of the reasons I can think of aren’t institutional at all, they’re personal. And where I come from, drop outs abound, but it certainly isn’t bound to gender. Again–it’s not the fault of a mytho-historical conspiracy of bitches. Address that… Read more »
Ok I’ll make this easy for you. Around the 1990’s there was a push to raise grades for girls, for ease of argument let’s say boys at 80, girls at 60. This push gave girls a +50 benefit, the girls have now overtaken boys. It’s good that girls were helped. Now the boys are at 80, girls at 110. The positive intention of helping girls was good BUT they forgot to ensure the boys kept up and were ok. Boys need a boost and they need to make sure girls also remain up around equal levels. (Numbers used aren’t based… Read more »
“We’re saying that women are arguably privileged in this regard and that men are being systematically disfavoured, and that this is a problem.”
It just ain’t so. Grad school programs prefer unattached single men, since American maternity structures are dismal.
*sigh*
Are we talking about grad school? No.
We’re talking about high school and undergrad.
It matters little if men are on top of postgrad now when they are currently dropping out of the tiers that feed into postgrad – that is not going to be an advantage for long.
HI OrishM
Have you read any good reseach focusing on why they dropp out?
Who are they?
@ silke
One theory is lack of male role models. Here is something interesting. It’s a way to help women succeed in STEM.
“But a new study by Cornell psychologists suggests that era has ended, finding in experiments with professors from 371 colleges and universities across the United States that science and engineering faculty preferred women two-to-one over identically qualified male candidates for assistant professor positions.”
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2015/04/women-preferred-21-over-men-stem-faculty-positions
Question is what if anything is being done to get male teachers into the classroom in primary and secondary school?
I really hope this article isn’t memory-holed but I suspect it will be. GMP may have chosen an odd way to go about it but they demonstrate time and again the urgent need for a mens’ rights movement.
If the latest piece by Matt Rozsa is anything to go buy, little has been learned from this debacle.
This site is becoming a joke, is it really that hard to fact-check? Are anti-vaxxers going to be put on tomorrow?
“As far as the education gap is concerned, is giving a person a lower grade because of his sex illegal?” It’s against academic conduct, yes. Proving it is another matter. If you can prove it no campus in this country will overlook it anymore than they overlook the football team gang-raping. Laws governing grading and laws governing pay-grades are entirely different things. I’ve been cursed out by a radical feminist from France and still managed to get an A in her class. Why do you think that is? I myself have never met a professor, even having had raging 2nd… Read more »
You really don’t know when to quit when you’re behind, do you? No-one is blaming women exclusively for the education gap. We’re saying that women are arguably privileged in this regard and that men are being systematically disfavoured, and that this is a problem. So maybe some focus should be on men in the education system as well as on women. As for your closing remark, I’ve heard plenty of women dismiss feminism using the same type of argument – but presumably you wouldn’t take those seriously so why should anyone take your argument seriously? And bravo again for ignoring… Read more »
@ Jeremy Brunger “It’s against academic conduct, yes. Proving it is another matter.” I think it’s pretty well proven. “Academics from the University of Georgia and Columbia University think they have more insight into why girls earn higher grades on report cards than boys do, despite the fact that girls do not necessarily outperform boys on achievement or IQ tests. Christopher Cornwell, head of economics at the University of Georgia’s Terry College of Business, UGA’s David Mustard and Columbia’s Jessica Van Parys have published a study that they say shows “gender disparities in teacher grades start early and uniformly favor… Read more »
They’re retrograde. Even I know I have a man’s right, as a gay man born into squalid poverty in the South, a bastard son of a waitress; if I manage to keep my life together the rest of you bitter men ought to follow suit. I see you’re run out of actual things to say so you resort to name calling. You haven’t addressed any of the criticisms in the comments, only beat your chest at a higher volume hoping to silence those who have disagreed with you with actual links and evidence. Makes me wonder who here is really… Read more »
Editors: Your note: This post is in no way meant to question or dismiss legitimate groups and efforts that advocate for better treatment of men—without attacking or denigrating women or feminism—in areas such as child custody and mental health care, as well as for recognition that men are also victims of violence and domestic abuse. is thouroughly debunked by the articles author who in clear text has stated that the doesn’t buy that women abuse men in statistically significant numbers. The author even stated that he is bothered that there exist a movement addressing male DV: That there is a… Read more »
I’ve decided nothing except what I’ve seen.
And what you’ve seen must be reality because you’re the center of the universe.
“I have seen enough deadbeat fathers leaving their children to live in poverty, enough men who show up at their ex-girlfriend’s houses with knives in their hand and whiskey on their breath, and enough women with bruises on their faces. It is regrettable that you believe the most important point of identification & differentiation in all of this is, of course, gender. You would take issue with abhorrent behavior insofar as you see those behaviors inherently linked with gender/masculinity. However, it seems to have eluded you that the points of commonality between those who commit violence & abhorrent actions, and… Read more »
“Now, I don’t know who removed that line, but if it was the author themselves I’d just point out that the decent thing to do when one has written something shitty is to own it and apologize – not to pretend one never wrote it.” Management insisted. “I’ve helped multiple women leave abusive men, I’ve sheltered an abused male to escape his abuser.” I’ve been hit by women myself. I wasn’t emotionally scarred by it. And there is a vast difference in individual cases and what constitutes a movement. That there is a movement concerning this is what bothers me;… Read more »
You know why I didn’t complain about getting hit by women, especially given that there’s not even the possibility of sexual fear? Because I’m a man. So it had nothing to do with your own ability to deal with trauma, the severity of what happened to you, or anything like that? Just you’re a man? Well its great that that worked out for you and I mean that. But to try to hinge the response one has to being attacked/abused on their gender is exactly how we’ve all gotten into this mess in the first place. Just going along and… Read more »
Management insisted. So I guess that means no apologies. Not that I expected one. I’ve been hit by women myself. I wasn’t emotionally scarred by it. And there is a vast difference in individual cases and what constitutes a movement. That there is a movement concerning this is what bothers me; it either suggests there is a statistically significant number of women abusing men, which I don’t buy, or it suggests co-opting of the feminist movement by people who felt they couldn’t be included in it. I think it was wrong of the women to hit you and I am… Read more »
“The men’s rights movement is a figment. You know why I didn’t complain about getting hit by women, especially given that there’s not even the possibility of sexual fear? Because I’m a man.” So not only are you dismissive of men’s issues, but you are also not very intelligent either. Go do some research on the effects of violence by women against men. Spoiler:Men aren’t gods, immune to women’s harm, men too get depression, anxiety, + the plethora of other harmful effects after violence. YOU may not have felt harmed but guess what, there are women who exist that aren’t… Read more »
Guess what Jeremy? I’ve helped multiple women leave abusive men, I’ve sheltered an abused male to escape his abuser. And I speak out against abuse when I see it with friends n family. I vote for political parties who have anti-abuse funding and resources on the agenda.
I am sorry editors, but that note is just trying to put lipstick on a pig. Stating that the post is not is in no way meant to question or dismiss the existence of men begin victims of violence or domestic abuse while the author writes this in a comment: But women hitting men? I don’t care. That line has now been removed from his comment, but it’s referrenced by long-time commenters like OirishM, Archy and Mostly123. Now, I don’t know who removed that line, but if it was the author themselves I’d just point out that the decent thing… Read more »
It was definitely there yesterday. Now it’s gone, must be magic! Apologizing and explaining what he meant by it might earn him back some respect but to delete and act like it wasn’t there is just cowardly.
“It’s full of assholes who wish they could talk down to women, but don’t have the courage, however tasteless, to do it. ”
But I thought that women were always being constantly abused especially in public spaces / on-line according to feminists. I thought men’s voices were privileged according to feminists. The narrative changes again to suit a purpose. Funny how they embrace and enforce traditional masculinity (men shouldn’t be afraid sissy-boy). Who’s really breaking gender stereotypes?
“Why should one anecdote overturn countless instances of men’s issues being diminished by people who purportedly care about gender equality?”
Because chivalry, it seems, is dead. A man who cares about women would have been most disgusted at that abuse, especially as one of the talking points is children. Yet it wasn’t “oh, that is ghastly,” it was “me me me.” And that is why the mainstream will not take men’s rights seriously as a movement. If you want some philosophy from this it is stop blaming women for your problems, because women didn’t cause them.
“Because chivalry, it seems, is dead. A man who cares about women would have been most disgusted at that abuse, especially as one of the talking points is children… If you want some philosophy from this it is stop blaming women for your problems, because women didn’t cause them.”
‘Chivalry is dead’? Frankly, that itself is more of an ambiguous and malleable slogan than a prescient observation. And the broader & more hyperbolic the generalizations by gender become, the less compelling your own position becomes.
Yet you are the one that doesn’t care about abuse against one gender? Do you have trouble with logic? There will be people who do not comment just say to “Oh that’s terrible”. Often comments online focus on specific points without discussing the entire post. The point of critique is to point out errors or disagree on certain issues. Just because people didn’t say they were disgusted doesn’t mean they aren’t disgusted with that abuser. And it wasn’t “me me me” It was “Your article is wrong because you are deliberately or ignorantly attacking THE WRONG GROUP”. Seriously, are you… Read more »
Because chivalry, it seems, is dead. It’s amazing how many people who allegedly want to take us forward into a new paradigm of gender equality harken back to a gender norm that was new and original around the time of the Black Death. Chivalry is, not to put too fine a point on it, patriarchal crap. There is no reason why men should feel they need to fling themselves forward to help women in distress when there is no similar exhortation being put on women to help men. It is quite common to see articles here and elsewhere assigning collective… Read more »
“But women hitting men? I don’t care. Women aren’t stalking you in the streets to rape you, nor are your female relatives lurking about your homes waiting to rape you. There’s a logical dissection of the zero zum game–already telling me the pick up artists have adopted an academic theory for their own purposes–but nary a dissection of the lady who got beaten by her coked-out boyfriend.” What the f**k? You don’t care? You think only women suffer serious abuse at the hands of their partner? Males get raped by females often, pull your head in and do your research… Read more »
Is the GMP actually going to listen to the men commenting who are regular readers or are they a “minority” in favour of pleasing others for clicks?
What bothers me most is none of you commented on the anecdotes in the first part of the article. A pregnant woman was forced to have a miscarriage–was beaten–and the first thing you guys circle around is the rhetoric? I understand a lot of those people have custody and other marital issues (not that I’m particularly fond of the marriage institution myself, seeing as how I don’t have it) and that this involves some serious emotional problems with their children. That is a valid point of criticism. But women aren’t stalking you in the streets to rape you, nor are… Read more »
What bothers me most is none of you commented on the anecdotes in the first part of the article. A pregnant woman was forced to have a miscarriage–was beaten–and the first thing you guys circle around is the rhetoric? Why should one anecdote overturn countless instances of men’s issues being diminished by people who purportedly care about gender equality? But women hitting men? I don’t care. Then the MRM will continue to exist. If feminists like you won’t care enough about it to even talk about it, they will. Even if you viewed this in terms of pure tactics, your… Read more »
We are serious about oppression!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How about you and others like you being serious about the FACTS concerning oppression.
Oppression and violence against women does exist. This is irrefutable. What is also irrefutable is violence against women is at the lowest ever in history.
“But women hitting men? I don’t care. Women aren’t stalking you in the streets to rape you, nor are your female relatives lurking about your homes waiting to rape you.” And I thought we’d moved beyond gendered generalizations of boogeymen and boogeywomen. A person who is being harmed is less concerned with the traits & gender of all the other persons who are NOT harming them, than they are most of all with that very particular person who is. A person who is harming another (be it either out of contempt for that other person’s traits, or regardless of them) does… Read more »
@ Jeremy Brunge
“pregnant woman was forced to have a miscarriage”
So it’s only a child and a crime if the woman didn’t want it to happen? The beating is one thing, but why make the miscarriage an issue?
What bothers me most is none of you commented on the anecdotes in the first part of the article. A pregnant woman was forced to have a miscarriage–was beaten–and the first thing you guys circle around is the rhetoric? Because there is so much of it. If you wanted more attention on the anecdotes then maybe you shouldn’t have buried them in piles of rhetoric. It almost sounds like you put the anecdotes in just so you would have a gotcha condition for anyone that didn’t focus entirely on them. What happened to those women were terrible and I don’t… Read more »
Will my other comments leave moderation?
” At least 1 in 4 women will be victims of sexual assault. ”
This statistic has been batted around for roughly thirty years or so. This leads me to one of two conclusions either: A it isn’t true, or at is at best seriously outdated or B it is completely true, and that means that feminist -led initiatives to combat rape are woefully inadequate, and need to be replaced with something new.
@8ball,
The stat is one big fat lie!
The people tossing the number around know it damn well is too…
It’s full of assholes who wish they could talk down to women, but don’t have the courage, however tasteless, to do it. This is why it isn’t a movement, nor even a moral problematic. It’s only a plea for social injustice. And no, lest you think I’m shadowboxing with figments of the Information Age, I won’t dignify their growing venues by linking to them. Well, no, there’s no fear of anyone thinking that now. What is much more likely is that people might think instead that your argument doesn’t have a leg to stand on, as you claim these things… Read more »
Per the education gap. Which is it? If women choose low paying jobs, do men choose to drop out of school? The draft isn’t a realistic worry, though it is a strange government artifact. I signed a draft note myself before attending college. We’ll have a volunteer army for a long while yet. “The opposite of feminism is a move away from conventional gender norms but discarding ideologies like yours that frantically deny the systematic harms done to men.” Moving away from conventional gender norms is packaged well within feminism. The progressive gender theorists, classical and contemporary, have been feminists.… Read more »
Per the education gap. Which is it? If women choose low paying jobs, do men choose to drop out of school? I could ask you the same sort of question. Which is it? If women were systematically oppressed/discriminated against, based on education outcomes, then are men now suffering that discrimination instead? The draft isn’t a realistic worry, though it is a strange government artifact. I signed a draft note myself before attending college. We’ll have a volunteer army for a long while yet. If it wasn’t that realistic a worry it wouldn’t exist at all. It’s obvious Uncle Sam is… Read more »
@ Jeremy Brunger “The draft isn’t a realistic worry, though it is a strange government artifact. I signed a draft note myself before attending college. We’ll have a volunteer army for a long while yet. ” And that’s a reason not to address an injustice. Aside from not registering having severe real world consequences as ChrisM pointed outy, what about the historical (there was a draft before) oppression of men. Oh wait, historical oppression doesn’t mean anything now. where the push for an all female draft to address the historical oppression against men? To paraphrase you but if men are… Read more »
BTW the word starts with an “F” and ends with “st”
Not much I could say that hasn’t already been said. The only thing that I would like to throw in here is the recent Gallop poll which shows a marked increase in societies acceptance of having children out of wedlock. That which the (the word that prompts mo der a tion) for some time claimed to not be true, that there was no intent to encourage single motherhood. In 2001 it was 45% against and in 2015 it’s reached 63%. The disposability of fathers. Can we expect the courts to adjust their views to that other then men being the… Read more »
Out of wedlock isn’t so bad, depends how many are long term relationships. My cousin has been with his partner and they’ve got a kid going on 10+ years now and won’t get married.