This writer was once a ‘nice guy’. After too many heartbreaks, he’s not any longer. Here’s why he turned in his good guy card, and why tons of former good guys have done the same.
I am a hopeless romantic and I have no problem admitting it. I’m one of the quixotic fools who still believes in unrequited love — that there is a soul mate for everyone, that true love exists. What I have a problem doing, is calling myself a “nice guy.”
I know it’s an oxymoron, but bear with me, and please read the entire article before you write me off as just another chauvinistic, angry guy talking about something he obviously knows nothing about. I’m just sharing here and, quite honestly, I would love to be proven wrong.
First of all, even if I were a nice guy, I wouldn’t call myself one, because I think that if you have to constantly remind yourself, or tell yourself that you are a nice guy, you aren’t.
So let’s just agree that I am not a nice guy, but by no means am I a blatant assh*le or anything like that. (Sure, sometimes I act like one, but who doesn’t have their moments?) But, as I said, I’m not a “nice guy” because even though I wasn’t finishing last, I sure as hell wasn’t finishing first.
You see, the hopeless romantic in me is still a gentleman, and still believes in doing chivalrous acts or doting on a girl I like, just to see her smile. The other part of me got really tired of doing those things and just being her BFF.
You can say that I’ve changed over the years; I’ve been molded by this infantile series of events we call Millennial dating.
I wear the façade of a nice guy, releasing glimpses of my inner romantic at opportune moments, but underneath is a cunning and ruthless man with a voracious appetite. I crave love and connections just as much as ever, I just go about getting them in a different way than I used to.
I’ve been conditioned, trained — not by women, as it takes two to tango, but by the game of dating. And if I’m being honest, I like the new me; he gets hurt less.
You see, I used to be a nice guy — the nicest. And when I was a nice guy, girls flocked to me — to turn me into their best friend, or to tell me about what their assh*le boyfriends did to them this time, or to cry on a safe shoulder when those hot guys from the bar they spent the night with never called.
I got tired of it, so I stopped being that guy… and lo and behold, now I’m the one making girls cry, err, I mean dating them.
I can honestly say that my most successful relationships were the result of me, quite literally, being the opposite of a nice guy, a “bad boy.” I turned myself into this mysterious, charismatic, sexually dominant man whom Lord Byron would be proud of. I became a challenge and a project for girls, and they ate it up.
I was no longer the overly available, timid, emotionally open nice guy; I was an aggressive, assertive, incredibly confident guy who made his sexual desires quite apparent, quite quickly.
It worked so well, that I stopped believing a nice guy could act this way; they just aren’t self-centered enough.
So now let’s take a stroll down memory lane to a girl I was dating in 2012. She was the perfect girl, and it was love at first sight. For the life of me, I couldn’t understand how this girl even gave a guy like me a chance. But I was assertive, and I went for it, and it worked.
Everything about this girl captivated me; she was smart, funny, athletic, intellectual, a total free spirit, fiercely independent and absolutely gorgeous on top of it all.
She had the most amazing eyes, when I looked into them, it was as if something pierced my very heart, and then she would smile, and I’d melt inside. I was head over heels.
I never told her, but I truly believed she would be the one, and so I changed for her. I dug up the nice guy within me, let the hopeless romantic run its course. And so naturally, she broke up with me.
She said that I was too good for her. I didn’t understand; I had stopped being an assh*le. I was a perfect gentleman, doting on her, never missing a text or call, seeing her every chance I got.
I couldn’t understand where I went wrong and it crushed me. I was mentally, physically and emotionally shattered.
In the end, she was right, I was too good. Not for her, but in general.
Allow me to rephrase: I was too nice.
And so, I went back to being the “bad boy.” What ensued, in an attempt to move on, was a string, a rather long one, of quick flings, random hookups and one nighters.
For about eight months, I tried moving on with all the Sydneys, Chelseas, Laurens and whatever the hell else their names were.
And then I reached the tender age of 23 (damn you blink-182) and for some stupid reason, I decided it was time to settle down again. It was time to be who I really was, a nice guy who would court a wonderful girl.
Yeah, that worked really well.
I tried, with four separate girls over the last couple of months, to be a romantic, nice guy who would court them and date them. I would do exactly what so many girls had told me they wanted from a guy.
Each time it started the same way: “I’m tired of dating assh*les, can we try and take things slow?” And the sucker (that’s me) would say, “Absolutely,” with a genuine smile on my face.
Each time, it ended the same damn way: Things would go great for the first couple of weeks, we would go out on great dates. I would never rush things, fishing for only a kiss after several dates.
I would be a nice guy, and then the girls would disappear. They would stop answering my calls and replying to my texts. A couple of weeks later, I would run into them, at which point they each told me the same thing. They were seeing someone; they rushed into things, but are now taking it slow.
In short, while I was taking them out on romantic dates and courting them, some other guy was the one sleeping with them and satisfying them. I was the fluffer to their sexual attraction.
And that is when I formed my opinion of what it is girls really want. They want the romantic and chivalrous things, the nice dates and the cute surprises — just not from a nice guy. They want it from someone they can teach to do those things — from a project guy.
Most typically, this guy is what we would call an alpha or a top dog, but, more simply, a bad boy. We see it all the time, when you talk to a pretty girl and then some other guy who exudes machismo, buys her a few shots, and the next thing you know, she is going home with him.
Why? Because girls are sexual creatures the same way men are; they have needs, and it is only natural that they should want them satisfied by someone with whom they have instant attraction — the other stuff they can work on later.
They want someone who will please them in all ways, be the envy of girls everywhere AND open the door and act like a gentleman (the last one is the project).
All of this boils down to one thing: They want a challenge. They want to be the one who not only gets the sexy guy all their friends were swooning over, but they want to be the one who makes him fall in love with them, they want to be the one who turns the bad boy, into their nice guy.
These types of guys will always win over nice guys. And that is because nice guys, by nature, are timid, reserved, un-aggressive, over-thinking, gentle souls who wouldn’t even dream of trying to sleep with you on the first date, lest they offend you!
You see, nice guys, it’s your fault. If only you were a nice guy, just without — you know — the whole being a nice guy thing, then girls would want to date you.
Until then, they are just going to continue to think that we are just generous friends with no feelings who take them on dinner dates.
That is why each of the four girls broke things off with me; they got bored. I was not a challenge, I was already nice.
So instead of dating me, they thought that they could reform a guy they had just met, but already slept with, into a gentleman.
Best of luck!
So here we are, full circle. I’m not a nice guy anymore; I’m tired of being screwed over. I’m tired of waiting to sleep with a girl out of respect only to find out she slept with my buddy the same night I took her out to dinner, I’m tired of making an effort for no reward, I’m tired of being rejected (I don’t care what gender you are, rejection hurts).
But, most of all, I’m tired of listening to you complain about how there are no good men left, when I was right there.
So you know what, I’ll stop being a good man; I’ll stop being a nice guy, and maybe then you’ll stop pretending like I don’t exist.
What I’ve learned is that nice guys don’t finish last. No, they get hurt enough or ignored enough and change. They learn the game and adapt, and in the end, there are no nice guys left.
They change into something that gets your attention, and is given a chance, something you see as a viable sexual partner.
But that isn’t all true because there are still some nice guys hidden out there in the world, you just don’t call them that.
You know them by a different name: your best friend, your BFF. You know, that guy who’s too nice to date, or you wouldn’t want to date so that you guys don’t jeopardize your friendship?
So now that I think about it, I might not be a hopeless romantic anymore, after all. Maybe I have been reformed, maybe I have been cured and my friends will stop calling me “Ted Mosby.” I know I am still a gentleman, but after all, “a gentleman is simply a patient wolf.”
The truth of the matter is this. While this may seem like the ranting of a jaded man, or an overly confident douche, at the end of the day, I’m just another heartbroken person trying to avoid it happening again.
There is this misconception that men don’t have feelings or emotions, that when you flake on a date or break things off out of the blue, that we don’t get hurt. We do. We may not wear our emotions on our sleeves, but we do get hurt. Those things do bother us, and the end result is always the same: a guarded, bitter man with higher walls than a medieval castle.
It took all of this for me to realize that being a hopeless romantic in today’s world is pointless; you have to adapt.
You have to accept this modern thing we call dating and love, or the same thing will happen over and over again, like an endless waltz.
The most honest and truthful reason I can give you as to why there are no nice guys left is fear. We were terrified of being alone, and we got so sick of being lonely.
Everyone wants intimate companionship, even nice guys. So to get it, we threw in the towel, we changed and learned — we stopped accepting that nice guys finish last.
Nice guys can’t finish last if there are none left. We know that being a nice guy didn’t entitle us to a great girl, but on those rare occasions when we ignored the timidness of our personalities and made our feelings known, we at least wanted a fair chance. But we never got one, and if we did, it was over before we knew it. “On to the next one!,” you said, as our hearts lay shattered on the floor.
People, especially girls, always say you have to fight!
I’m sorry, I can’t anymore. I’ve got nothing left. When you’ve been broken as many times as I have, it’s a constant fight just to hold yourself together.
It was much easier to change banners and give up on being a nice guy. And nice guys everywhere are realizing that as well; they are hanging up the knight’s armor and donning the bad boy’s leather jacket. If you can’t beat them, join them.
Who knows though? Maybe one day, the genders of our generation will stop thinking that they are each entitled to some mythical perfection that they deserve.
They will stop playing games and hold themselves to a higher standard and respect themselves enough to date people who truly make them happy and loved.
Maybe one day our generation will wake up and say, “I desire a certain kind of love, and I want certain qualities in a partner that will make him/her perfect for me! I don’t care how hot you are, or how sexy you are, that is not enough for me.”
And then what we will see are two souls, fighting for exactly what they want, encountering each other, and knowing, immediately, that they wont play games — that she was meant for him, and he was meant for her, and nothing else matters…
Until then, I guess there is always Tinder.
Originally appeared at Elite Daily
Photo Elite Daily
About the author: Jonathan Ovalles. Jon is just your runs of the mill hopeless romantic who still thinks he will meet his future wife at Barnes & Noble. When he’s not enjoying Florida weather, or excessive amounts of red wine, he’s probably reading. He keeps trying to explain to his friends that just because he has tattoos, a high and tight haircut, and a beard now, that he is not a hipster. And he’s still waiting for it to be socially acceptable to flirt with someone by buying them a book, and not a drink…but he’ll take the drink too.
Holy crap. This just changed my view on everything. I’m going to try this out. It makes sense. I used to slay so much back in high school and college because I didn’t care and girls would be heart broken all the time. Now I care and I’m the one heart broken over and over. Time to go back to not caring but an act of it. When deep down inside I know what’s real.
Definitely I would rather a book than a drink!
I totally agree ! We ask and take what we want from men, but what do we give ?
And you’re dead wrong if you want to be with someone just to change that person ,of course we change when we are in a relationship, but it just happens , one changes the other and viceversa jut by sharing their lives and souls.
Dude, you’re 23. I can appreciate the philosophizing and need for romance and companionship, but relax and stop being so melodramatic. Both men and women need time to mature and know what they want and don’t want in the world, though to call anyone in their early 20s “men and women” is a bit of a stretch. You’re still boys and girls, and you want to seem cool, like you’ve got life all figured out, half the time not even realizing that you don’t, at all. Don’t believe me? Check the tone you use in this article. You’ve got it… Read more »
Brilliantly said!!! And I like the context of your use of man up. Usually it is used to fit the socially accepted stereotype of a man but you used it to say a real man is authentic to who they are which is absolute truth. I’m a 34 year old woman who has always had men fall all over me, but they were the wrong type. So I took a time out of 4 years to find myself and now I still have men fall over me but they are now the right type of men because I associate with… Read more »
I’m at odds with some aspects of this article. Firstly I agree completely that being a nice person puts you at the back of the queue, my own experience bears this out as throughout my life I’ve had very limited success with women. Yet despite this I could never just become a ‘bad guy’, it is not me, not who I am. It runs contrary to every way in which I feel comfortable to behave and I’m not sure someone who’s genuinely nice could act in the bad guy role. We should be true to ourselves and if that means… Read more »
Hi, amazing article. I actually have a lovely friend who is exactly as you describe yourself. But I have a question, what if the girl who is ready to accept you as you really are- the “nice” guy, has been right there all the while but you were too busy trying to be someone you aren’t, that you just missed the chance?
Very, very interesting post. As a former “too nice girl” I can really relate, because actually the rules apply the other way around. I used to think that once I found a good man we could just stop playing games and love each other unconditionnally, but now I’ve realised that’s not how it works: sexual attraction is based on a little power game – I call it “the dance”: you take one step forward, I take one step back, and the other way around. The reason I still love and desire my boyfriend after 6 years of relationship is because… Read more »
Good point Sarah! It’s called honesty, there’s not enough of it in the world, and both men and women appreciate it when it shows itself! I onetime asked my wife of almost 40 years why she chose me? I can be abrupt, dismissive and somewhat an impatient asshole sometimes. (sometimes, more than just sometimes) She said my emotions were ‘unfiltered’, as in what I honestly felt at that moment. In other words, I was incapable of ‘trying to be nice’ and when we took her cat to the vet to be put down and I started to cry,she knew it… Read more »
I like that the author took the time to write about what he’s learned from dating, but I found it really off-putting how this article discusses what women want– as if it were one thing, one type of guy; as if all women wanted that and only that; as if all women behaved and desired in the same fashion. It should be obvious that this can never be true. A term to think about is *essentializing* – any time you talk about a diverse group of people as if they are all identical. As writers and as men, we must… Read more »
Maybe you should try to love yourself before you expect anyone else to love you. Basing your actions on someone else is a very sad way to live. Maybe instead of dating and pretending to be someone you’re not to score chicks you should just be yourself. Or take some time out to figure out who that is. No one is going to truly love you until you love yourself. Even then you might not ring in a winner right away, but it will be ok because you will be ok with yourself. This isn’t just you, it’s men and… Read more »
Amen, Amen and Amen! Think of all the nice, intelligent, funny women you passed over or preferred to just be friends with because they simply weren’t hot enough. But you generally don’t see women writing articles about how they became bitchier because they were tired of being rejected. Often times, thry turn that angst on themselves and started obsessing abiut their looks, weight, etc. That or they become more sexually promiscuous hoping (misguidedly) to reel men in through sex. Rinse and repeat over and over again for 10 years until she gives up snd marries thd first kind of ok… Read more »
I’ve stopped being nice and instead try to be kind. While nice guy = death, I think part of that is because niceness is primarily about making the other person feel comfortable. Being kind is about being committed to the other person’s best, which frequently entails doing things they don’t like or having conversations that are uncomfortable. Plus, you get to be yourself, which must be sacrificed when once is nice. The more confidence I have in being myself and being kind – and in being assertive about what I want – the better my life seems to be, including… Read more »
I think calling them nice guys/girls over simplifies the problem. These people aren’t being “nice”. They aren’t selflessly doing something/being there for someone else because they care so much; they are doing these “nice” things because they think that’s what the other person wants them to do, and they expect something in return. You said so yourself, you would take these girls out for a nice dinner, doting on them, making them your top priority, so that they would fall in love with you/choose you/stay with you. That’s not how love works, and furthermore, tends to be very transparent and… Read more »
Well said Jenn.
Very well said, Jenn. Noone should compromise their self-esteem to please the other, and this act of pleasing may be mistaken for expressing true love by both at the same time. The primary question for everyone is to realize who YOU really are and what your needs and priorities are. And then go and have fun together or settle down, but in both cases it should be clear for each person what it is. True love is misunderstood completely, there is vulnerability but no “heels over head”, it’s a calm tender feeling; the union is not all about worries and… Read more »
This mythical time where nice people went for the appropriate nice person of the opposite sex doesn’t exist. It’s a made up story created by those who are frequently rejected as an excuse to why he or she did not want to be with you. It’s the same thing as a girlfriend telling her BFF that he didn’t call because he was intimidated by her confidence. It sounds nice because it’s a lie disguised as a compliment to make them believe that they did everything right and the other person did everything wrong. Its complete bull crap. They just aren’t… Read more »
Well said.
Being a “nice guy” is rarely ever enough to satisfy a woman. Women and men are both complex beings, and are often oversimplified by oblivious members of the opposite sex. Many men want to believe that if they are nice to a woman they find attractive, she will be more interested in him romantically/sexually. This is simply not true in the vast majority of relationships. We men can face this reality and adapt if we choose, in the hopes of finding a female partner we desire. Or we can continue to lie to ourselves and let the self-pity associated with… Read more »
There are women who still want nice guys. But they are 35, their looks are fading, and they want you to pony up for the 2 screaming brats at home that the bad boy left her with.
Erin, here is one of them, you see, I am observing what this person says. I do not hold the same beliefs.
Archy, I don’t live in a cave. I’m been around the internet long enough to see some really bitter and negative things said about women. Busting on women for their age is a fan favorite. But in your previous post, it sure did sound like to me that you did agree. Right down to the “fading” looks thing.
How about instead of addressing me, how about you address Razor and disagree with him since you say you don’t hold the same beliefs. You love to discuss subjects. Why aren’t you pointing out the flaw to Razor’s reasoning?
Hi Jon, and thank you for writing this article. This is the first time ever I’m posting a comment – you really struck a nerve;0) I was getting ready for such a rant on the other side of the gender gap. When I was young and a total mess, men flocked to me. Since then I have been to therapy, worked on myself, found peace, meditation, compassion, kindness, eschewed all kinds of power games, cleaned up my act etc etc… And whaddya know? The flocking men went away… Of course, I expected the ‘players’ to leave, but I thought a… Read more »
Now that’s an interesting take on the matter. Haven’t heard of that happening before but that is most interesting indeed.
Thank you at least for commenting without condemning.
Same here! I went from one messed up relationship to another for years, with bad boys who loved to manipulate my weaknesses, but after I decided to cut the crap and start improving my life and shaping myself into the kind of person who can actually offer some stability and promise in a future built together… they all disappeared.
I will die alone, but at least I have my mental health?
I wonder, are you acting less flirty or sexual? Could there be an unconscious thing going on where you aren’t sending out signs of availability or desire yet before you did?
Yes, me too! Esp because you know how to heal and love yourself and the danger they have is actually a hurt that YOU now know how to heal. Like you are their prince in shinning Armour. Lol
@ Eléonore
“Everything about this girl captivated me; she was smart, funny, athletic, intellectual, a total free spirit, fiercely independent and absolutely gorgeous on top of it all.”
I met the same type of woman and immediately had a crush on her. The problem was she was looking for a husband and kept pressing for a husband wanting to move in within months of dating, etc. Maybe these are the signals of stability that you’re sending instead of I have my stuff together signals. It didn’t work for us because we were on different time tables for marriage.
I’ve seen clinginess described as many things, but not entitlement to sex. Clingy usually comes up in a relationship context as well, I would have thought.
I’m sure that’s a problem in its own right, but I don’t see people who complain about niceguyism complaining about women displaying the analogous behaviour.
An honest question for men or women who are in these kinds of friendships. If a “friend” is doing all of that stuff with you and yet saying they are not interested, and it is painful for you, why not create healthy boundaries on the relationship? It would be amazing if all people took into consideration another person’s emotional health, since that is what real friends do, but at some point are you not responsible for your own emotional health? Part of growing up into a real man or woman is learning to stand up for yourself, your desires, and… Read more »
That would be really cool to have a female friend. I congratulate you on your success in friendships across genders. So how did some of those happen? Was a third party always involved in the initial meet and greet? How did you get those boundaries straightened out? If you don’t reply, that’s OK. I’m generally just a sometimes banned lurker.
They happened the same way my female friendships did. We met at school, work, parties, weddings, rec league sports teams, church, through other friends. To be fair, I was raised with guys so I both enjoy and have no problem talking about a lot of traditionally “guy” topics, esp sports, which can make the first meeting a bit less staggered. But I like to get to know people so I ask questions and want honest answers. I think people are fascinating for their particular stories and life experiences. Boundaries start from the beginning. I approach people as though they are… Read more »
What a ramble that was to read. I think the only thing you are doing wrong is not understanding what actually motivated you to be a ‘nice guy’ in the first place. You’re not being a “nice guy” because it will be good for the woman you are with – you’re doing it because it will make you look better and you think it might get you what you want without having to deal with the tears and tantrums that inevitably follow liaisons with ‘bad guys’. Being a “nice guy” is all about projecting an image, and has absolutely nothing… Read more »
What a ramble that was to read. I think the only thing you are doing wrong is not understanding what actually motivated you to be a ‘nice guy’ in the first place. You’re not being a “nice guy” because it will be good for the woman you are with – you’re doing it because it will make you look better and you think it might get you what you want without having to deal with the tears and tantrums that inevitably follow liaisons with ‘bad guys’. People keep asserting this, but where is it actually found in the article? He… Read more »
It’s asserted when he says he stopped being a nice guy because it wasn’t getting results. It’s not asserted explicitly, but anyone with more than third grade reading comprehension can figure it out.
Third grade reading comprehension, is it?
Are you higher grade readers figuring out that simply wanting sex =/= feeling entitled to it?
I would love to see a discussion on this topic where the naysayers do not repeatedly smear and misrepresent the men talking about their issues.
Being a nice guy is not an issue per se. The issue is the attitude that women are somehow at fault if you are not that attractive to them as you’d like to be. Entitlement “happens” when you assume that certain stuff must come your way if you act in X, Y, Z ways and get all bitchy and judgemental towards the sex that interests you when the expected outcome is nowhere to be seen. However the atitude “I can’t believe I did all the right things and its still not getting me into someones pants” has a negative vibe… Read more »
@Laura: Being a nice guy is not an issue per se. The issue is the attitude that women are somehow at fault if you are not that attractive to them as you’d like to be. No, the issue is neither that, nor to think they are entitled to X,Y,Z just for acting like a nice,kind,decent, whatever, person. It’s not about the extinction of your own personality to spend 24/7 fawning over another person either, as some has wrongfully concluded above. What it is about: It’s about It is about having women, friends, not the conventionally attractive super popular hotties, but… Read more »
Being a nice guy is not an issue per se. The issue is the attitude that women are somehow at fault if you are not that attractive to them as you’d like to be. Except that isn’t the attitude. The point of view is that what they have told should work doesn’t. It’s frustration, not entitlement. Also, if it was really entitlement – why in the would would so many nice guys end up trying to change who they are? Entitlement “happens” when you assume that certain stuff must come your way if you act in X, Y, Z ways… Read more »
Dear To Most Of The Guys That Responded To This Article And Jonathan, Have you wanted to date every woman that’s been nice to you simply because she’s been nice? Haven’t there been a woman that was interested in you that you were not interested in return? Is a woman’s ability to be a “nice”, “kind” or even a “caring” person enough to make you want to be with her in a committed relationship strictly for these qualities alone? Or is it more realistic to say that both men and women require more of each other then simply being “nice”?… Read more »
Couldn’t have said it any better. Thats some elaborate response for those who have been playing the blame game in the comments in here, instead of looking really well into the mirror and considering if theres a chance that being nice is not a remedy for everything and that there are always things they might get better at, instead of pointing fingers to others and wishing they would change (whereas he/she doesn’t even think of auditing his/her own patterns and behaviours).
Erin, I think the point is not that the nice guy behaviour isn’t problematic. It’s that the pinnacle of discussion on this topic is just “well, they’re entitled assholes”. The problem lies deeper than that – many guys in that situation are just hurting, but the way this issue is discussed is just further kicking them while they’re down. It is also hypocritical. The difference is, WE get the judgement and criticism from women and feminists for inconsistent behaviour. Similarly inconsistent behaviour from women – like those nice guys point out? Can’t criticise those choices. Nuh-uh. Ist Verboten. We’re just… Read more »
“The difference is, WE get the judgement and criticism from women and feminists for inconsistent behaviour.” Except that’s not a difference at all. I would say “maybe you don’t notice because it isn’t aimed at you,” but given the article you’re commenting on, that excuse just doesn’t fly. We don’t get criticized? WTF is the article about, then? “And one of the main reasons WHY so many guys think being “nice” is a requirement for sex/relationship? Very often WOMEN give them that idea!” Yeah, because it absolutely is a requirement. It’s just not the ONLY requirement, and certainly not enough… Read more »
Obviously I meant that this article is the rare exception. Certainly in the arena of non-traditional gender discussion. Given how much anti nice guy vitriol there is out there it is certainly nice to have a little balance.
As for the relevance of being nice – of course it’s not the only criterion. The problem is the other criteria are not often mentioned in those scenarios which leads to the confusion. It certainly isn’t fair, as the author mentioned in his experiences, to string someone along with it.
““And one of the main reasons WHY so many guys think being “nice” is a requirement for sex/relationship? Very often WOMEN give them that idea!” Yeah, because it absolutely is a requirement. It’s just not the ONLY requirement, and certainly not enough to get every woman you ever wanted to fall at your feet.” This is one of the most important parts. Niceness is being treated like the holy grail of dating in advice the nice guys often get, people don’t talk enough about the other aspects of attraction usually. And yes Erin, this is a generalization! It isn’t true… Read more »
I don’t have any problem with guys hurting because of rejection Oirish. I have a problem with men justifying changing who they are at their core because they are trying to please the wrong kind of women for them. And they try to say that’s what *all* women want and women are to blame why men are jerks. This issue is more multi-dimensional that it’s being given credit for. If I got breast implants, worked out at the gym 7 days a week and started to skip meals like I once did, men would be giving me a lot more… Read more »
I don’t have any problem with guys hurting because of rejection Oirish. I have a problem with men justifying changing who they are at their core because they are trying to please the wrong kind of women for them. And they try to say that’s what *all* women want and women are to blame why men are jerks. This issue is more multi-dimensional that it’s being given credit for. You addressed your comment to most of the guys commenting. Most of the guys commenting in actuality have agreed that article contained too much generalisation. Rather, we are concerned about highlighting… Read more »
There’s a massive difference between nice guys n nice girls….Guys don’t usually tell women they want a nice girl and say how she’d make a great gf, the way that some girls do to the guys. A major problem is these girls are telling the guys that they aren’t JUST a nice guy but are saying shit like “I wish I could find a guy like you” and other stuff that in his mind sounds just like she’s saying she wants a guy who is just like him, but isn’t him, which is bloody confusing or worse if she says… Read more »
There’s a massive difference between nice guys n nice girls….Guys don’t usually tell women they want a nice girl and say how she’d make a great gf, the way that some girls do to the guys. A major problem is these girls are telling the guys that they aren’t JUST a nice guy but are saying shit like “I wish I could find a guy like you” and other stuff that in his mind sounds just like she’s saying she wants a guy who is just like him, but isn’t him, which is bloody confusing or worse if she says… Read more »
Women get called clingy in this case, which is just another form of saying someone is entitled.
The use of words has more to do with stereotypical roles we attribute to men and women – a man is a pursuer, who seeks to be rewarded for his effort (get the prize – the woman, therefore “entitled” if a woman doesn’t wish to be pursued by the guy) and a woman is a passive side, not pursuing, just being there/ around while demonstrating the valued traits (therefore “clingy” if a guy doesnt want her mixing in his environment).
Yeah, there is a massive difference between nice guys and nice girls. A man won’t even want to be friends with a girl because she’s “nice”. I think a lot of men even pick their “friends” based on how physically attractive a woman is. A woman will still want to be friends with a man because he’s “nice” and she still sees value in him as a friend even if she isn’t physically attracted to him. It’s fairly obvious to me that when a girl says “I wish I could find a guy like you” that what she is saying… Read more »
@Erin,
“Nice” (without the quotation marks) is a positive attribute to me.
I have a lot of friends, both female and male, who are nice people, regardless of where they rank on whatever arbitrary attractiveness scale. In fact, if they weren’t nice, I wouldn’t want to be friends with them at all.
However, I have also broken off the friendship with quite a few people, who I thought were mostly using my “friendship” to gain personal advantage on one level or the other.
Erin: The difference between girls that think you’re nice, at least they still want to be your friend. Even when a guy thinks your nice, he doesn’t even want to be your friend because you may not be attractive enough even for friendship. Which really isn’t all that “nice” anyway. Maybe you like to think so. But in my experience, being a not-so-attractive guy friend to a girl most often means that you get called upon when help is needed, but less often get called upon for a friday night out or even a movie. I used to have this… Read more »
wtf did I just read
Just love how you had all womankind figured out at the tender age of 23. Very impressive, not at all pathetically arrogant.
If four girlfriends in a row left you due to boredom, it’s not because you were nice. It’s because you were boring. Which isn’t surprising, given that you apparently don’t understand the difference between nice and platonic.
Platonic is for same sex friendships.
You have to do what’s right for you. But, if it helps at all, I pursued a “nice guy” (he came that way, no project involved), and we’ve been together for 10 years. Married, adorable baby, the whole 9. And we’re still a little nauseatingly in love. Not sure if it will happen for you, but there are actually women out there who do want that, who don’t want a project – they want a man. Someone to grow with, not someone to train.
The acronym is NAWALT – not all women are like that.
It’s true enough. But many (most?) are – particularly when they’re young. They’re driven more by the dark forces of evo psych than they are by conscious thinking.
Good on ya for being smarter than that from the get-go!
The only advice I can offer Jonathan is DO NOT marry or cohabitate no matter who you end up with. In our present legal climate you have a 50/50 chance of losing half of everything you have just because the relationship ends. Russian Roulette would give you better odds.
And surprise surprise, some women are dismissing it already on facebook.
What an odd dichotomy. Either Timid Nice Guy, or Assertive Asshole. Now, I’m a woman, so I could be wrong… but aren’t men just a little more complicated than that? There are just more types than that.
My husband is an Assertive Nice Guy, for example. And confidence is Daaaaaaamn sexy.
Then again, I never told my guy friends that I wanted “nice guys like them” Because I didn’t. I wanted a different kind of nice guy.
Confidence again, always with this word confidence. DEFINE IT, EXPLAIN HOW TO GET IT. Can I buy it? Can I make it on the stove? How Do I Get It?!? In classes in which I excel and barely have to put in any work, I’m always confident in my abilities. It’s easy , I excel therefore I’m not afraid to show off what I know. But I’m not confident in my abilities to fix cars, so why would I be confident in my abilities to fix cars when I have no evidence of said ability? Same thing with women. Why… Read more »