By Understood
Julia Schifini, who has ADHD, left her day job and embraced the opportunity to turn weekly chats with her best friend into a podcasting career. As creator of the popular “Spirits” mythology podcast, she’s found her niche in topics like Greek mythology, Dungeons & Dragons, and more. Along the way, she also taught herself sound engineering. Listen to how Julia navigates ADHD within the demands of her podcasting work. Find out how her many and varied interests have helped her thrive. And hear her explain what a podcasting collective is.
To find a transcript for this episode and more resources, visit the episode page at Understood. https://www.understood.org/podcast/ho…
We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at [email protected].
Understood is a nonprofit and social impact organization dedicated to shaping a world where the 1 in 5 people who learn and think differently can thrive. Learn more about “How’d You Get THAT Job?!” and all our podcasts at u.org/podcasts. Copyright © 2022 Understood for All, Inc. All rights reserved.
Transcript provided by YouTube (unedited)
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[Music]
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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from the understood podcast network this
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is how’d you get that job a podcast that
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explores the unique and often unexpected
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career paths of people with learning and
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thinking differences my name is eleni
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mathil and i’m a user researcher here at
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understood that means i spend a lot of
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time thinking about how we find jobs we
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love that reflect how we learn and who
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we are
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i’ll be your host
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julia shafini is a podcaster she is one
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of the founding members of the podcast
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collective multitude she is also a
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co-host and producer of spirits which is
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a clear mythology and folklore podcast
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told through a feminist lens
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julia is also a sound designer for a
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variety of fiction podcasts and she also
0:50
has adhd so welcome to the show julia
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thank you so much for having me i’m so
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excited to talk yeah i’m excited too
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it does feel a little bit better
1:00
interviewing a fellow podcaster about
1:02
podcasting as a job so in the
1:04
introduction i mentioned you have a
1:05
podcast collective
1:07
can you explain what that means sure
1:12
basically as a collective we are a bunch
1:14
of different shows who share similar
1:16
resources and are able to promote each
1:18
other from within so it’s basically like
1:20
if you ever think of like a commune or
1:22
like a podcast commune in that sense i
1:25
love that analogy cool and what is the
1:27
collective about so at multitude we are
1:29
all about talking about topics that we
1:31
love but in a complex way like we’re
1:33
able to kind of acknowledge the fact
1:35
that not all of these things that we
1:37
love are perfect and so we can lovingly
1:39
criticize them in ways that one show how
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much we love those topics and also to
1:45
allow us to have conversations and build
1:47
communities around them so anything from
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like basketball to dungeons and dragons
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to mythology we just try to cover all of
1:55
our bases about things that we’re
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passionate about yeah i particularly
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love the mythology element my family is
2:01
from cyprus so
2:02
definitely grew up listening to a lot of
2:05
mythology and learning about it what
2:07
prompted you to start the collective
2:09
were you already into podcasting
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how did it all start
2:15
so we started with our show spirits
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which is the mythology podcast and that
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kind of started after i and one of my
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best friends who i’ve known since i was
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five we both graduated college i had
2:27
moved back to new york and we were just
2:30
in really like dead end jobs really not
2:32
enjoying ourselves so we would meet
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every night at a bar and we just talk
2:36
about stuff that we loved to talk about
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so it’d be stuff like let’s talk about
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the meaning of death and why we’re all
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so obsessed with it and
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from there we were just having these
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conversations and i was like
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i feel like other people would be
2:50
somewhat interested in these
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conversations and their conversations
2:53
that we both loved talking about why not
2:56
make a podcast about it because at that
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point i had been listening to podcasts
3:00
and it seemed like something that was
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doable at the time and so
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we kind of like brainstormed we chatted
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about it for a couple weeks and then i
3:09
came up with the name spirits and i
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remember jotting down what would become
3:14
the logo on a napkin and i looked at my
3:17
friend i was like oh no now we have to
3:19
do this now that we’ve created the
3:21
vision of it we’re gonna have to do it
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wow
3:24
so it sounds like it came more so from
3:27
just really enjoying having
3:29
conversations and then thinking oh maybe
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other people would enjoy listening to
3:33
this as well
3:34
i mean like that’s such an adhd thing
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right is being like i just love talking
3:38
about this thing and i want to share it
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with everyone else i want everyone else
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to know how much this thing is so cool
3:44
and that’s like been my kind of hyper
3:46
focus since i was eight and i picked up
3:48
edith hamilton’s mythology way too young
3:51
and i was just like do you guys know
3:53
about clyeti she’s the reason that
3:54
there’s sunflowers and everyone’s like
3:56
what are you talking about
4:01
i was actually going to ask if you saw
4:03
any connection with your adhd
4:05
and this interest both in podcasting and
4:09
in mythology in general or any of the
4:11
other topics you talk about how does it
4:13
play a role
4:14
so it’s really interesting because i
4:16
think the reason that i got into
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podcasts is that
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my adhd makes it very difficult to just
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sit in silence and do things and
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sometimes music almost feels too
4:27
distracting but i can put on a podcast
4:28
and zone out the voices a little bit and
4:30
sometimes pick up little things and it
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makes it so much easier to read or
4:35
research or write at the time
4:37
so i think when i was in college and i
4:39
started listening to podcasts for the
4:41
first time
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that was a way of me being able to
4:44
channel to focus was having that kind of
4:47
background noise background buzz at the
4:49
time and also because people were
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telling fascinating stories or i was
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learning really interesting things while
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listening to podcasts in those moments
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where i could tune back in and be like
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oh yeah that is really interesting i
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love that imagery that kind of thing
5:03
yeah
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that’s interesting so in a way it was
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like a coping mechanism to help you
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focus yeah then you’re also
5:09
simultaneously able to learn yeah well
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that was happening so while i was
5:14
looking into this interview i was
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reading that the word podcast actually
5:18
comes from the word
5:20
ipod and
5:22
broadcasting combined which i didn’t
5:23
know
5:24
being a podcaster wasn’t always a thing
5:26
right that’s like a pretty newish yeah
5:29
for our times path but did you always
5:32
want to be like some sort of broadcaster
5:35
oh god no i hated the sound of my voice
5:37
for an extremely long time
5:40
i
5:41
graduated with a degree in history and
5:44
religious studies
5:46
and i like to joke that the religious
5:48
studies part of my degree was a complete
5:50
accident because it kind of was
5:52
i had to take a forced elective they’re
5:55
like all right you have to choose
5:56
between these two classes and one was
5:58
like ethics in biology and i was like i
6:01
have no interest in that whatsoever no
6:03
thank you and the other one was like
6:04
comparative study of cultures i’m like
6:06
that sounds fun and fine i like fell in
6:10
love with this professor she was so cool
6:12
and i go up to her at the end of the
6:15
semester when it’s time to pick classes
6:16
for the next semester i’m like oh
6:18
professor what classes are you teaching
6:20
next semester and she’s like i’m
6:21
teaching a class called the meaning of
6:22
death and i was like i will see you next
6:24
semester the meaning of death
6:26
and i just kept taking classes with her
6:29
because it was like the one steady thing
6:31
in my life at the time because college
6:34
was weird moving to a new city was weird
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a lot of my ability at the time to keep
6:39
my adhd in check was structure and so
6:41
going away to college i kind of lost all
6:44
of that structure and like i didn’t do
6:46
bad my first semester but i did fully
6:47
miss a final my first semester i was
6:50
like crying in the registrar’s office
6:52
trying to get things sorted out but i
6:55
had lost a lot of that structure going
6:56
to school and so finding this professor
6:58
my first semester helped me get my
7:01
structure back
7:02
knowing that at least every semester
7:04
i’ll be able to see professor setta so
7:07
it ended up working out pretty well
7:09
yeah i think that idea of people with
7:12
adhd is struggling once they get to
7:14
college because of the loss of structure
7:16
i hear that a lot in my research and we
7:18
actually have had another episode
7:20
talking about that as well
7:21
structure and routine can be really
7:23
important so that’s a really creative
7:25
way to have consistency in your life
7:28
yeah yeah i was actually going to ask
7:30
you so like you have the collective you
7:32
co-host this podcast you also do the
7:34
voice acting and the sound design that
7:36
sounds like a lot like how do you fit
7:37
that all in
7:39
where do you find the time
7:41
oh it is a lot it super is a lot i feel
7:44
like a good way of answering this
7:45
question is telling you about how i lost
7:47
my job go for it so we had been doing
7:50
the podcast as a side thing and i had
7:53
transitioned from the kind of dead end
7:55
job that i had been in that i was super
7:57
not enjoying to something that i enjoyed
7:59
a little bit more
8:00
so fast forward that company got bought
8:03
out by a much larger supermarket brand
8:06
and at the time that that happened they
8:09
started downsizing and i had been the
8:11
kind of lowest level employee in my
8:14
department and so i was like oh
8:18
i
8:18
was forced to take a step that i had
8:21
been
8:21
dreading but also knew that i wanted to
8:25
do eventually so losing my job forced me
8:28
to become a full-time podcaster and so
8:32
circling back to your original question
8:34
about how did i end up doing all of this
8:36
different things
8:38
i had to start diversifying i had to
8:40
start figuring out okay well yes i’m
8:43
making a certain amount of money each
8:45
month from doing that one podcast
8:47
are there other ways that i can be
8:50
enhancing my skills and making it so
8:52
that i can be more appealing for
8:54
different kinds of jobs and so i started
8:56
doing the voice acting on the side which
8:58
was a lot of fun and then realized that
9:00
a lot of these projects that were hiring
9:02
voice actors were also hiring editors
9:05
and sound designers and i was like i
9:07
think that’s a skill that i could teach
9:09
myself and so i did i just watched a lot
9:12
of youtube videos i downloaded a daw
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da is a digital audio workstation so if
9:19
you are recording a podcast or editing a
9:23
podcast you’re basically going to be
9:25
doing that on a daw and i just started
9:28
playing around with it and it was a fun
9:29
little side project to make weird noises
9:32
and make cool sounds
9:34
and then i finally got someone to be
9:36
like oh yeah you can sound design for me
9:38
that would be cool and then it just blew
9:40
up from there we’ve also had other
9:41
people on the podcast that have talked
9:43
about this drive to teach themselves do
9:46
you think that it relates to your
9:48
differences at all is that just a
9:50
personality or an attitude thing
9:53
i think in my brain it absolutely is an
9:55
adhd thing there’s
9:57
very few things that i feel like on a
10:00
day-to-day basis that i can like sit
10:02
down and be like okay i’m going to do
10:04
this thing
10:05
but when my mind makes itself up for me
10:08
and it says hey we’re going to learn how
10:09
to sound design that’s what we do we
10:11
just do it but at the same time i think
10:14
also survival instinct kicked in at that
10:16
point too it’s like you need to learn
10:17
how to do this because if you don’t who
10:19
knows how long you’re going to be able
10:20
to do this for i know we talked briefly
10:22
about sound design but we didn’t really
10:25
talk about what that is
10:26
what is that job
10:28
oh so sound design basically if you’re
10:30
listening to a podcast particularly a
10:32
fiction podcast but any podcast in
10:34
general
10:35
sound design is creating the soundscape
10:37
basically the things that you’re hearing
10:39
that aren’t the voices or the effects
10:41
that are on the voices so for instance
10:43
one of the first projects that i sound
10:45
designed was a fiction show called janus
10:48
descending which is basically about two
10:50
biologists who go to a planet encounter
10:53
an alien there things do not go well
10:56
so basically like fun science fiction
10:58
horror is a great way of describing it
11:00
but it was my job to create the sounds
11:03
of that alien planet the sounds of them
11:07
communicating through the radios and
11:08
stuff like that that’s cool the aliens
11:10
themselves yeah and so you mentioned
11:13
that it was partly out of necessity but
11:16
it also sounds like you get a lot of
11:18
variety is that something that you are
11:20
also seeking or did it just happen that
11:22
way oh man no my brain loves variety
11:25
i’ve been thinking about this a lot and
11:27
the idea that my brain cycles through
11:31
excitement about the projects that i’m
11:33
working at so
11:34
you’ll be like all right
11:36
spear through instance is a weekly show
11:38
but sound design is a really intense
11:40
project ninety percent of the time and
11:43
can be a little daunting when you’re
11:44
getting towards the end of a season and
11:46
you’re like all right god i know it’s
11:48
going to take me like four hours just to
11:50
design this two-minute scene
11:52
so you gotta get through it
11:54
and so i’ll go through a phase where i’m
11:56
doing three to four months of intense
11:58
sound design and then i’m taking a break
12:00
until the next project starts
12:02
and by the time that three month period
12:04
of the break is
12:06
over my brain is like are we sound
12:07
designing again because i really want to
12:09
sound design again so it’s just letting
12:11
my brain recharge again that’s
12:12
interesting so it sounds like you have
12:14
more of a monthly or a quarterly cycle
12:17
of the kind of work you do rather than
12:18
yeah a weekly because do you have like a
12:21
typical week or does it really depend on
12:23
where you are along those particular
12:26
project cycles
12:28
because i have like weekly shows that go
12:30
out i do have like a typical monday we
12:32
do this tuesday we do this release days
12:35
wednesday prep for new episode thursday
12:38
et cetera et cetera
12:40
when i’m doing other projects on top of
12:42
that that’s when the schedule fluctuates
12:44
which is actually very good for me i
12:46
think that one of the best parts about
12:49
working from home and also creating your
12:51
own schedule like as a podcaster is that
12:55
i can take breaks when i know that my
12:58
brain is just not into it that day and
13:01
then there’s some days where it’s like
13:02
all right schedule dictates that this
13:04
thing needs to get done
13:07
and then the rest of the day is yours do
13:09
with it what you will and those are the
13:11
days where i feel like i can take a
13:12
break and i can move on and i can read a
13:14
book or play a video game and let my
13:16
brain decompress for the day before we
13:18
get into another day where it’s like all
13:20
right we’re gonna do full day cycle
13:22
through hyper focus let’s go so julia
13:25
when did you find out that you had adhd
13:28
so i was diagnosed at a fairly young age
13:33
i
13:34
skewed more towards inattentive than
13:37
hyperactive but i did end up going to
13:39
therapy and stuff as a young kid and
13:41
that taught me a lot of coping
13:42
mechanisms that
13:44
really helped me succeed from elementary
13:48
school to high school in terms of how
13:52
that affected me i guess
13:54
i know that you guys talk about like
13:56
co-occurrence with anxiety and
13:58
depression quite a bit end of high
14:00
school tended to be where that was kind
14:02
of starting to happen where i was
14:04
starting to feel anxiety a lot more and
14:06
my depression a lot more to the point
14:08
where i was always very into
14:11
supernatural stuff and also like
14:13
superhero stuff a lot when i was a
14:15
teenager so i like jokingly in my head
14:18
told myself i must have a superpower
14:20
because i must have like premonitions or
14:23
precognition or something like that
14:24
because why would i just be nervous
14:25
about something when nothing around me
14:28
was happening so that was funny at least
14:31
looking back on hindsight
14:33
and then
14:34
as an adult i finally
14:37
managed to convince my primary care
14:39
physician i got diagnosed with adhd as a
14:42
kid do you think that there is a way
14:44
that as an adult now i can get medicated
14:47
because this was like during the period
14:48
of time where i’d been trying to
14:50
transition into podcasting full-time and
14:52
i was like
14:53
i have no structure now i don’t know how
14:55
to act or create structure on my own
14:59
outside of an office space i need to
15:01
talk to someone about this i need to
15:03
like do something about this and so he
15:05
finally gave me the information for a
15:07
neurologist and we like went through the
15:08
process which it was a very smooth
15:10
process and it changed my life in the
15:12
sense that i finally was able to create
15:16
structure on my own without so much
15:18
difficulty and like trying to force
15:20
myself to
15:21
create a structure i could do it and
15:25
feel good about that and focus on the
15:27
things that i needed to focus on so that
15:29
was huge kind of getting that adult
15:31
diagnosis and finally medicated yeah how
15:34
do you find that the depression anxiety
15:37
and adhd
15:38
interact
15:41
i think a lot of times for me the
15:44
rejection sensitivity part of adhd can
15:48
trigger
15:49
the depression
15:51
and mine tends to like comes in waves so
15:53
i’ll be like two weeks where i’m really
15:55
good and then two weeks where i’m down
15:57
and again that’s why we created that
15:59
brick wall scenario my therapist and i
16:02
she’s like listen even if half the wall
16:04
gets broken down half the wall is still
16:06
there and it’s gonna be not as difficult
16:09
as rebuilding the wall from scrap
16:12
and then the anxiety again it’s just
16:14
those like kind of spiraling thoughts
16:15
which i think is made worse by adhd
16:18
sometimes like i will be laying in bed
16:20
and you just can’t shut off your brain
16:22
and when it’s anxiety mode plus
16:25
the adhd spiral that’s a rough time i
16:28
found that for me at least and i know
16:30
this isn’t for everyone but like reading
16:32
really helps me hyper focus on one thing
16:34
and stop the spiraling yeah i mean
16:37
that’s a really healthy coping mechanism
16:40
are there other ways that you think your
16:42
adhd shows up at work like i knew you
16:44
talked about the hyper focus yeah i run
16:46
the social media for the spirits account
16:49
and stuff like that
16:51
and oh boy rejection hits real hard when
16:54
people can just tweet their criticisms
16:55
directly at you
16:57
that’s rough and like social media is
16:59
rough but when you’re putting yourself
17:00
out there and trying to teach people on
17:03
a weekly basis sometimes you mess things
17:05
up and i am trying to be more accepting
17:08
of the times where i mess things up but
17:10
it hurts real hard even the nicest of
17:12
criticisms can really bring your whole
17:14
day down which is
17:16
tough
17:17
yeah what do you do to cope with
17:19
negative emotions oh boy bless my
17:21
therapist because she’s a delight and a
17:23
wonder but we talk about how
17:26
a lot of self-esteem is building a brick
17:28
wall a lot of your bricks are central to
17:31
your foundation and when someone
17:34
knocks against that brick wall they
17:35
might loosen a brick or two but the
17:37
whole wall doesn’t come crumbling down
17:39
so i try to conceive of it as that brick
17:42
wall in my head being like yep all right
17:43
a couple of the bricks from the top fell
17:45
down there but we can rebuild
17:47
and i have
17:49
i know it doesn’t sound conceited for
17:50
anyone who understands where i’m coming
17:53
from but i do have a folder of all the
17:54
nice emails that people have sent about
17:56
the show like all the compliments like
17:59
you’ve improved my life kind of things
18:01
and
18:02
those really help because sometimes that
18:04
self-doubt really does come in and yeah
18:07
it is nice to be reminded that people
18:09
love the show for a reason yeah i mean
18:12
that’s such a lovely idea to hold on to
18:14
affirmations or print them out and have
18:15
them available so you have something you
18:17
can immediately turn to if you’re not
18:19
feeling great or if someone says
18:20
something hurtful it’s helped a lot to
18:23
truly be able to call upon support and
18:26
just good vibes really can help turn it
18:29
around when you’re just feeling
18:30
frustrated with yourself or down on
18:32
yourself well thank you for sharing that
18:34
i think that’s a useful visual as well
18:37
with the brick wall
18:38
i might even use that for myself
18:42
so do you have a favorite show from the
18:44
collective
18:46
oh no you can’t ask me that they’re all
18:47
my babies they’re all my friends
18:50
i think if you’re going to be giving the
18:52
collective a try just find something
18:55
that is a topic that you’re super
18:57
interested in and like i said we run the
18:59
gamut from like
19:00
mythology we have a basketball podcast
19:03
we have a fiction podcast we have
19:05
dungeons and dragons we have
19:07
uh world building and science we have
19:10
everything you’ll find something that
19:11
interests you if you just go to
19:14
multitude.productions and check out our
19:16
shows i know that you mentioned you had
19:19
an interest from a young age in
19:21
mythology and folklore have you always
19:23
been someone that has niche interests
19:26
my friends will look at me be like julia
19:28
you trained in professional wrestling
19:30
for two years you do embroidery i feel
19:33
like i look back at my life and i can
19:35
look at like my instagram for instance
19:37
be like oh that was a fun six to eight
19:39
months to two years where you were
19:41
really interested in mushroom hunting or
19:43
something like that
19:45
and i definitely think that’s an adhd
19:47
thing is to have that fixation for a
19:49
limited amount of time be like all right
19:51
that was fun we’re moving on to
19:52
something else now though so i’ve
19:54
definitely had some weird interesting
19:57
niche interests
19:59
for sure 100
20:01
so you mentioned wrestling and mushrooms
20:03
there is there anything that
20:05
you want to get back to or that you
20:07
think might turn into a podcast
20:10
building on that have you gotten any
20:12
inspiration from like any of your
20:14
interests for the collective things that
20:16
you want to showcase
20:18
absolutely there are certain things that
20:20
i want to get back to a big reason that
20:22
i stopped doing professional wrestling
20:23
because there was a pandemic all of a
20:25
sudden and so getting face to face with
20:27
some sweaty people seemed like a bad
20:29
idea at the time i toyed with the idea
20:32
of doing a wrestling podcast but yeah
20:35
every once in a while i’ll just have
20:36
this idea that pops into my head and be
20:38
like can we make that into a podcast and
20:39
then
20:40
whether or not it stays around for an
20:43
extended period of time and like stays
20:44
in my brain is whether or not i feel
20:47
like i can develop it into an actual
20:49
show like spirits
20:51
mythology has been my thing for years
20:53
and years and years it’s like the one
20:55
hyper fixation that has stayed around
20:57
over the course of my entire life so
20:59
that made the most sense when we were
21:01
planning a podcast to be like that’s the
21:03
topic that we’re gonna talk about with
21:05
everything else you know things come and
21:06
go and that’s just a real big adhd mood
21:09
so
21:10
this podcast is an extension of my day
21:12
job as a user researcher it is a little
21:14
bit more of a creative side project and
21:17
i know that you also talked about that’s
21:19
how you started but do you have any hot
21:22
tips for me or other aspiring podcasters
21:24
that want to get the podcast off the
21:26
ground or make it more of a full-time
21:28
gig be successful especially if they
21:31
have adhd i will say
21:33
we have a bunch of free resources at
21:36
multitudes website that i would highly
21:38
recommend people check out it’s got
21:40
everything from like marketing advice to
21:42
how to get started to budgeting and
21:44
stuff like that
21:45
great resources it’s
21:47
multitude.productionslash resources
21:49
check those out
21:50
from my personal standpoint
21:53
if you are looking to start a podcast
21:56
and you’re an adhd person like me
22:00
my biggest advice would be find the
22:03
topic
22:04
where your voice is unique and
22:07
individual there are for example a
22:10
million true crime podcasts out there
22:12
right
22:13
find what your voice can tell
22:16
specifically
22:17
and tell that story or tell that
22:20
perspective and create it from there
22:23
grade it from what you can do yourself
22:26
and why you’re unique and why you should
22:28
be the one telling the story that’s the
22:30
biggest thing for me
22:31
in terms of if you’re trying to
22:33
transition from side job to career in
22:36
podcasting one
22:39
make sure you’re ready for it because it
22:40
is an interesting and volatile field and
22:44
two
22:45
make sure you have a support system
22:47
because the biggest thing for me in
22:48
podcasting is being able to turn to my
22:51
team or turn to my friends and be like
22:53
hey
22:54
i’m just i can’t do it today can you
22:56
help me pick up the slack so
22:59
find that team find that support system
23:01
and i think you’ll be okay thank you so
23:03
much for being here for having this
23:05
conversation with me and for sharing all
23:07
your stories it was my absolute pleasure
23:09
thank you for having me
23:11
[Music]
23:16
this has been how’d you get that job a
23:18
part of the understood podcast network
23:21
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23:22
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23:30
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23:33
you need go to you.org that job to share
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understood.org
23:43
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23:45
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23:46
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23:51
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from you
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learn more at understood.org
24:11
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24:12
how to get that job was created by
24:14
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24:16
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24:19
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24:23
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24:26
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production directors thanks again for
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listening
24:32
[Music]
24:50
you
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This post was previously published on YouTube.
***
You may also like these posts on The Good Men Project:
Escape the Act Like a Man Box | What We Talk About When We Talk About Men | Why I Don’t Want to Talk About Race | The First Myth of the Patriarchy: The Acorn on the Pillow |
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