Jeremy Gross has noticed a menacing trend among the ranks of atheist activists. This is his plea for mutual tolerance.
Dear Atheists:
Even though I am a religious Jew, I’m not your enemy. Really, I’m not. I was raised secularly, and spent a lot of my life without faith. For most of that time, I considered myself agnostic, but I never believed in an angry bearded anthropomorph in the sky (and still don’t), and I would consider myself to have held implicit atheistic beliefs in my past. I still have many close friends who are both implicit and explicit atheists, and we respect each other enough to have respect for each other’s beliefs.
Because Judaism is a complex umbrella of ethnicity, culture, religion, spiritual practice, and de facto grouping, there is no conflict of interest to be an atheist Jew. I have atheist Jews who go to synagogue with me, and they are as welcome as anyone else there. Some will even fast for Yom Kippur, not out of any religious devotion, but as an expression of cultural identity. An atheist Jewish friend of mine defines Judaism as: “When they come to round up all the Jews, if they get you, you’re a Jew.”
While more paranoid than my own personal definition, it does illustrate a point. Jews are not evangelical, and even if you wanted to convert to Judaism, a rabbi would try to talk you out of it unless you had your heart set on it.
Tolerance has to be reciprocal or it doesn’t exist.
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I wouldn’t even need to write this letter to you, except for a disturbing trend I see within your ranks, that has me concerned, especially because I want to extend an olive branch to you, and this trend makes me slightly hesitant to do so. I am tolerant of other religions to the extent that they are tolerant of me and my faith. I have Muslim friends whom I love and support, but when Hamas says that Jews are descended from pigs and rats, I withdraw my support for Hamas. I have Christian friends, and I admire their faith, but I do not admire those who claim I am damned to Hell for rejecting Christ, nor those who accuse me of killing Christ.
Tolerance has to be reciprocal, or it doesn’t exist. I love and support my atheist friends as long as they don’t regard all faith as a sick delusion that has to be stamped out of human consciousness. My worry is that I’m seeing too many of you go from atheism to antitheism to intolerance of theism, and I don’t like to share my community with bigots of any stripe, theist or atheist.
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It’s hard to be an atheist. The overwhelming majority of people believe in God, and it’s easy to feel outnumbered and overwhelmed by those of faith. Believe me, as a Jew in the USA, I know what it’s like to feel outnumbered and overwhelmed, and in Norway and Australia it was considerably worse. I experienced being forced to have a Christian religious education, to be told daily that I was damned, to be rejected, suspected, and condemned, and worst of all, to be treated as alien by otherwise well-meaning people. In your history, you were subjected to the same persecution as the Jews, Cathars, Rosicrucians, Swedenborgians, Sufis, Ishmaelians, Yazids, Druze, Quakers, Unitarians, and other minorities who believed differently from the faiths of the majority. The previous President of the USA vocally doubted whether you could be true citizens. That sucks. In some regions, you face discrimination at work, ostracism in your communities, and in other parts of the world, imprisonment or death.
There have been moments where atheists have been in control of their nations, but so far those have not been happy memories either. In the USSR, the League of the Militant Godless had state support, and sought to teach people that they did not need gods in order to live a fulfilling life. In their zeal, they destroyed churches, synagogues and mosques, and ended up imprisoning and murdering people. In Albania, every place of worship was ceded to the state, and converted to secular community centers. Priests, rabbis and imams were sent to re-education camps. It became a criminal offense to teach any religious thought or practice, making it the only state in the history of the world to actively seek to obliterate religion from its territory. In China, Buddhist monasteries are subject to rigid control and abuse. And don’t get me started on North Korea.
Like state religion, state atheism is horrible and inhumane. Any forced ideology exists through violence rather than reason, and a reasonable person opposes any forced ideology of intolerance, whether towards, or away from religion. That religions have, in their history, committed far more atrocities than those committed by atheists, does not make any of those crimes condonable or justifiable.
I need you to live a life where you are secure in your liberties, so I can be secure in mine.
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Antonio Gramsci, an Italian Communist, grew up in Sardinia. He watched the Young Sardinia movement emerge, modeled after the Young Turks movement. He saw Sardinians develop a political movement based on a Sardinian identity, and saw they had a chance of overthrowing their Piedmontese (Italian) occupiers and establishing a Sardinian state. Then he noticed that the movement was bankrolled by the local landlords, who were starving the local peasantry with brutal rents, and harsh reprisals for late payments or disobedience. That is when he asked himself: if the Young Sardinians take power here, will they be kinder or more just than the Piedmontese? Would he be any freer than he would be under the status quo? That’s when he realized that who ruled was not the only matter of importance, but how they ruled was equally important (by using that same logic, he ultimately later rejected Communism).
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So how do we assure that you can live lives free of oppression? Because if you aren’t free, you may gain power and enslave me some day as a reprisal for your previous subjugation, so I need for you to live a life where you are secure in your liberties in order to be secure in mine. Here in the USA, we have had an interfaith tolerance written into the Constitution, but throughout our history, it has been a struggle to live up to that tolerance. If you actually look at the language, it is more than interfaith, but extra-faith as well:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…
That means that respecting an establishment of religion is beyond the power of the state. If we truly live up to that sentiment, it should be beyond our power to compel another’s faith or lack thereof. This is the essence of tolerance: that I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe (or don’t believe), and neither forces the issue. We live in peace together because we do not try to coerce each other. I pray every day, and go to synagogue and pray with others who are there willingly, and you don’t have to. However you may personally feel about my practice, you are enlightened enough to assume that, in my current level of enlightenment, I need it to function, and do not seek to deprive me of my needs.
You may privately feel that such needs are pathetic, but you are compassionate enough not to interfere. You are gracious enough to let me be, and you may have faith that if I seek to improve my mind, I may one day reach your level of enlightenment and cast off my belief system, but you do not force my hand. Reciprocally, I may privately see you as cutting yourself off from a profound source of spiritual purpose, and I may feel that the real God is patiently waiting for your hiatus to end in order for you to feel God’s love again and reunite with your Creator, but I also understand that by so doing, you are purging yourself of meaningless idolatry and superstition, and I do not interfere with your process.
If you feel that I require a lobotomy because I believe I have a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe, you should be prevented from having your way.
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The point is that tolerance is allowing others to believe things you think are wrong, and respecting their processes enough to allow them to work things out on their own. Obviously there are places where tolerance ends. If I feel that God wants me to strap dynamite to my body and blow up a shopping mall, I should be prevented from doing this as expediently as possible. If you feel that I require a lobotomy because I believe I have a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe, you should be prevented from having your way. There are going to be gray areas, like the Jewish practice of B’rit Milah, or the education of children, but we can negotiate these gray areas in a respectful manner if we develop the practice of tolerance for the clear-cut cases.
In religious communities, the idea of interfaith dialogue is a hot idea right now, and it’s a good idea. Most Jews and Muslims have no idea how many points of similarity we have together. Jews and Christians have a lot of tragedy and reconciliation to process, having come from a common source. We may see the reintegration of Catholicism with Orthodox Christianity in our lifetimes. Tolerance depends on mutual understanding, and we have seen many religions in the USA that previously excluded and oppressed lesbians, gays, bisexuals, the transgendered, and those questioning their sexualities welcoming them back into the fold (The United Church of Christ has done great work here). Although Christians once regarded (and many still regard) homosexuality as a terrible sin, some Christians are able to be tolerant, and by so doing, have won many to their faith. There is nothing like respecting a person as they currently are to earn their respect. There is no reason that a dialogue between believers and unbelievers, in the interest of tolerance, can not take place.
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So my plea to you is to be tolerant of others, and to encourage others to be tolerant of you. People who think differently from you will think things that annoy you, but if you can communicate with them in an atmosphere of mutual respect, please do so. I know that many religious people are so intolerant of your beliefs that they cannot meet you half way. You are under no obligation to be tolerant of such people. But please understand that not all religious people are your enemies. Some of us love you and respect you, and want to earn your love and respect as well.
Love, Jeremy.
Photo: FLickr/Ideowl
“There have been moments where atheists have been in control of their nations, but so far those have not been happy memories either.”
What, France under Mitterrand wasn’t happy? Australia under Gillard? Norway under Stoltenberg? India under Nehru? Denmark under Krag? Sweden under Palme?
Did you even check for atheist heads of state?
” I don’t like to share my community with bigots”
1. Is it yours now?
2. Religion is a choice (at least for adults) and is very much like a political party. There’s nothing wrong with being against a particular religion or political party. And there’s nothing wrong with being against the entire idea of religion or political parties. The line should be drawn at actually creating laws that would treat religious or political people differently from other people. Currently that line HAS been crossed, in the other direction, by favoring religion. It’s got to stop.
So now the shoe is on the other foot, and suddenly you’re concerned that the centuries of mistreatment atheists have suffered at the hands of believers will come back to bite you. To borrow a phrase from a Buddhist, karma is a bitch. I am an atheist and an anti-theist. Due to the individual way I came to atheism, I was an anti-theist long before I realized I had no reason to believe in any gods. Why? Because I paid attention to what religion has been motivating people to do for countless generations, and continues to do today. Certainly I… Read more »
I see very few commenters trying to figure out and take seriously what is making Jeremy uncomfortable in the new, more aggressive anti-theism. Instead, it looks more like a verbal gang-up — and provides evidence for Jeremy’s point. I hope Jeremy will write another column on this issue, focusing perhaps on one aspect of the problem. The lively and heated response shows that this is a discussion that needs to happen.
*Ahem*
That bit should have read “atheists are NOT a group” quite an important typo there.
Hi Jeremy, I was half way through a probably over long post and somehow deleted it, so here’s the short version: I’m an atheist because I don’t believe in a god. That is the extent of my belief system and literally the only thing I have to do to earn the title. It also means atheists are a group, its neither religion nor ideology. We don’t even get a membership card. I have as much to do with the dickish behaviour of some atheists as you do, simply because we are all humans. You choose to define yourself by your… Read more »
“Although Christians once regarded (and many still regard) homosexuality as a terrible sin, some Christians are able to be tolerant, and by so doing, have won many to their faith.”
Lovely. There’s nothing quite as heart warming as being tolerated.
My issue with religion is very simple. Organized religions typically funnel power and wealth upward. They consolidate and concentrate control. What that has to do with the divine I can not possibly see. It seems very much an earthly concern. And a nasty one at that.
This kind of misconception of atheists is exactly why good discourse is next to impossible to have. Whereas Mr. Gross appears to be taken with the idea that we non-believers are angry, the polar opposite is the status quo in our community. I’m of the opinion to live and let live, as many of my atheist/agnostic brethren are. Here’s where it gets difficult: Since we are such a pronounced minority in our country, those with faith (and here I’m speaking largely to the Christian community, us being in the US. If we were in, say, Iran, I’d say this about… Read more »
“I have Muslim friends whom I love and support, but when Hamas says that Jews are descended from pigs and rats, I withdraw my support for Hamas.” Well yes, and that is part of the issue, is it not Jeremy? For when Muslims are faced with the military actions of the Jewish state against the people of Gaza, for example, they then withdraw their support for the Jewish state. And the problem with your statement above is that it contains zero sense of proportionality, a cornerstone of justice, and sets up a false equivalence that should be given no place… Read more »
If I had a friend who had a harmful habit I would seek to help, to guide that person away from it. It’s possible that this person might not recognise my efforts as an attempt to help at the time.
Religion is considered by many, myself included, to be an extremely harmful vice that afflicts society and harms those it touches. Thankfully, it is slowly receding.
This letter makes the absurd claim that nations have ruled under the name of ‘atheism’. That is completely false.
If you use the Soviet Union as your example, it wasn’t atheism that ruled but fascism. There is a difference as the churches that were burned served only one purpose: to eliminate threats of influence. They were not burned in the name of remaining godless. There is a big difference.
Intolerance of religion is not bigotry. Intolerance of religion is intolerance of bigotry.
So, from what I can gather from this statement, in your mind, ALL religions are bigoted? I’m sorry but I find that offensive in the extreme.
In other words, it’s okay for people to come together to call governments and businesses on their unfair and criminal behavior. But get a ragged bunch of atheists together to call organized religion on their criminal business of offering invisible products for which they charge the naive and gullible a fee, and in some cases demand all their time and money, and we call this intolerance? If parts of society did not step in to put a halt to certain religious practices and beliefs we’d still own slaves, beat children, behead “sinners”, burn so-called witches, treat epileptic seizures as demonic… Read more »
You make a great case for separation of church and state. However, I don’t understand what is making you scared. Most atheists in the US are strong supporters of separation. I don’t see anything even hinting of government intrusion from atheists. The most I could see from the article are references to things like the book “The God Delusion”. I don’t see that book even as bad as some things in the Christian Bible or Torah (such as Psalm 14). I don’t think this suggested tolerance means Christians or Jews alter their holy books. Or Christians stop telling my daughter… Read more »
What I can’t figure out, is that no matter how fervently one believes, atheistic or theistic, it is still only a belief. Not one KNOWS the Truth, no matter what science or religious book says. Therefore, if atheists know the truth then why would they even bother with whether a manger or a menorah is on the Capitol steps as a display? Unless of course that symbol then requires adherence to that specific thought or else. Which is why I have little use for any of the fundamentalist thinking from any one particular faith. To me they are terrorists, whether… Read more »
Atheism is a lack of belief. If someone asks you if you believe in leprechauns, you aren’t making a declaration about whether they exist or not; you merely haven’t been convinced. If a jar is filled with jellybeans, and person A says the number of jellybeans is odd, do you believe this claim to be true? Of course not, because no evidence has been provided. If person B says it’s odd, do you believe that? No, and for the same reason that you didn’t believe person A. In either case, did you make an assertion about even or odd? No.… Read more »
It is a common but mistaken belief—fomented by the shrieking neocons—that the United States was founded as a Christian nation, or “on Judeo-Christian values” (the “Judeo-” part being silent), or that the founding fathers were all Christians. That’s not correct. Those founding fathers were mostly deists, and in a document called the Treaty of Tripoli they wrote (inter alia) “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion”.
When you write “I see a disturbing trend” you need to provide at least three examples of said disturbing behaviour. At least that’s what my Junior High English teacher taught me. And no, Soviet Russia and North Korea don’t count. And Sardinia… (Sardinia? seriously?) No, this post seems to want to say that atheists “see faith as a sickness that needs to be eradicated from human consciousness”. Again, examples please. Second, I’m pretty sure atheists have advanced beyond mid-20th century concepts of eradication. I don’t think today’s atheists wish to stamp out faith by means of concentration camps, or re-education… Read more »
Atheist ≠ antitheist, as the article makes clear. I think you might want to give a second pass at figuring out the point that Gramsci was making about “who” and “how”.
I agree with many things you say, except this: ” (Gramsci) he ultimately later rejected Communism”
Gramsci never rejected communism and never embraced Jesus (as tried to affirm Catholic church ). He proposed another way completely different form stalinism to realize communism and change “how” and not only “who”.
For more information http://www.internationalgramscisociety.org/
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
The interpretation of this has been wrong by the courts. The original intent of this was to prevent Congress from making say Christianity the official religion of the Republic.
Unfortunately, such acts as school prayer have been construed to be an “establishment of religion.” It’s utter nonsense!
Sure, when it’s regarding YOUR religious beliefs. Would you support, say, institutional teacher-led Muslim prayers in public schools? Probably not. For the reason you would object, so would others regarding your religious practices. Do you know what the tyranny of the majority is? How about religious privilege? Do you even understand what the bans on prayer in school specify as illegal? Or, do you take the Fox News version of “all prayer is banned?”
“The point is that tolerance is allowing others to believe things you think are wrong” Please tell us precisely how atheists are not allowing others to believe things that are wrong. Is this done through violence or threat of violence? Through the power of the state? Or are you just building a strawman in order to troll atheists? Some minority of atheists are arguing in public with believers, sometimes ridiculing their beliefs. People do this kind of thing in the domain of politics far more frequently and in far greater numbers, yet I only see you taking a stand against… Read more »
I’m not taking a stand against atheism (obviously, considering the text of the article). I’m taking a stand against hostile antitheism. This is one article, with one theme and and one subject. Believe me, I take a stand against other things in other articles. And sometimes, I celebrate, observe, explain, invite explanations, and sing peculiar songs.
To be honest i think what you have noticed is the Atheist movement getting some self respect and standing up for itself. The Atheist movement has finally started acting like a movement with definition and purpose – kinda like a religion, atheism now has a pulpit and can say what its been thinking since the dark ages. “Y’all are nuts!” lol. I disagree about live and let live to a small extent, those few cults that get started and turn people into slaves i think need to be identified and discouraged – however that’s how Mormons started and look at… Read more »
” That religions have, in their history, committed far more atrocities than those committed by atheists, does not make any of those crimes condonable or justifiable” good article but lost a bit of credibility here. Stalin, lenin, mao, pol pot alone count for 100 plus million dead. i cant think of a religion that achieved such a number. these were communists and committed atheists.
sometimes we say things often enough that we believe them regardless of their truth.
A matter of opportunity and capacity rather than intent. Had the old Testament jews had the ability to nuke or gas their neighbors by the millions, their God would have commanded them to righteously carry out such exterminations.
Atheism is not a worldview, and on its own is neither moral or immoral. Secular Humanism is an atheistic worldview, so perhaps you could list some of its atrocities for us?
The strangest thing about the god-given right to religious freedom is that there is no requirement of truth.
Whose truth?
Universal truth, the truth of creation . . . something well beyond “whose”, which implies some kind of ownership.
Do you have a sound epistemological definition of universal truth that you’d be able to invite me to agree with?
I see no need for any such definition . . . do you? As a Freemason, what is their common definition? What is the official definition of universal truth within this system?
Given the evasiveness of the issue of truth as a requirement, is this an issue you’d prefer to dodge, and by dodge I mean switch the focus on to an individual, such as me, rather than on institutions and systems of institutions. I’m not the one doing the preaching.
I was a bit intrigued by this sentence: “Believe me, as a Jew in the USA, I know what it’s like to feel outnumbered and overwhelmed, and in Norway and Australia it was considerably worse.” Could you elaborate on why you felt this in Norway?
I experienced a few uncomfortable moments as a Jew in Norway. The Jews I met there experienced anti-Semitism as a common experience (and I don’t mean anti-Israel sentiments, but real hostility to Jews), and I heard a few mean-spirited Jewish jokes from otherwise well-meaning friends there. I met a gay Israeli schoolteacher. He had an experience with a homophobic student, and the administration stepped in right away. He later had an experience with an anti-Semitic student, and the administration at his school completely blew him off. I’m pleased that the administration took homophobia seriously, but not so pleased with the… Read more »
Thank you for your reply. Being a Norwegian, the reason for me being intrigued is the fact that there has been some (not a lot) press in Norway about Jews considering themselves being treated poorly. My own reaction to this, and I think many others was instinctively to dismiss this. Hostility towards Jews? Why?! By whom? Norway has a lot to be ashamed of regarding the general population’s treatment of Jews both before and during WW2, but after? Jews aren’t very visible in Norway, and therefore shouldn’t be regarded as a “threat”. There is however been pretty harsh, consistent and… Read more »
It would help if the author understood anti-theism ≠ atheism.
Oh, I do. The text of the article does as well.
Jeremy, I think there’s a tremendous disconnect between what you think you said, and what you actually wrote. What you think you said (from the comments) is something like “militant anti-theism, to the point of violence, is bad.” What you actually said, and how everyone is reading it, is “anyone who ever engages in attempting to convince others that their position might be wrong is basically Stalin.” You would do well to recognize that what you’re doing here is tantamount to me pointing to you and saying that your judaism is the same as ultra-orthodox jews that spit in girl’s… Read more »
Jeremy, it sounds like relatively not very far apart on the spectrum. I am an agnostic atheist since around the time of my Bar Mitzvah; I was raised (reform-ish) Jewish, and now when asked how observant I am I answer “I’m in it for the food”. As a gay man, I’ve likely been on the receiving end of a lot more religiously-motivated animus and invidious discrimination than you have—much of it codified in local, regional, national, and Constitutional law. With that as background, here’s my version, in fewer words: I do not respect your religious beliefs, and I don’t have… Read more »
Amen!
Very well stated.
I think we’re on the same page here.