A recently conducted survey of more than 1,000 women by the well-regarded BBC Radio 4 programme Women’s Hour revealed a lot of interesting statistics about how British women feel about their lives in 2016.
One thing that stood out for me was how little difference income made in areas which were about emotional well-being, such as overal happiness, although not surprisingly, it did determine levels of confidence about having access to healthy food, or quality housing…those areas where access to resources is directly linked to disposable income
I’m always on the look out for opportunities to learn more about that other wonderful human species that shares this planet with us, and I found these figures from the survey to be the most interesting:
“Only 10 percent of women would rather be a man, and only 10 percent would not have married the same person.”
“40 percent of women are completely happy.”
“80 percent of women do not feel held back at work because of being a woman.”
(By the way, I would love to see a similar survey of British men, with different questions, obviously. That would be a useful eye opener for everyone, men and women).
This reassured me that, in spite the defensive reactions to the survey that have appeared on some British “men’s rights” websites, the female species in the U.K. is apparently not overrun by angry, man-hating feminists.
Then there was this other rather thought provoking revelation:
“Only an average of 20 percent of women across of all ages (and there’s not so much difference in response between different age groups) are very satisfied with their sex lives; 10 percent feel so/so about it, and 7 percent are very unsatisfied.”
To the men who seem angry about what this survey revealed, I’d say this: what reason would either the survey designers, or the women interviewed, have to want to put men down?
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So, there’s clearly something that many of us can do to make our women happier. And it would be a real “labour of love.” To the men who seem angry about what this survey revealed, I’d say this: what reason would either the survey designers, or the women interviewed, have to want to put men down? And if they’re expressing genuine feelings about men, why DO they feel that way?
As men we need to ask ourselves: do we want greater equality, mutual understanding and respect and happiness in our relationships? I know I do. If so, I think we need to respond to the women’s movement, and feminism, whenever they talk about what pisses them off—n the same way we would a partner who is upset. Any man who’s ever been in an argument with a woman knows that trying to prove that he’s “right” is a pointless exercise. The best way forward is for him, as the generally less emotional gender, to listen, and show that he’s heard and tried to understand, the feelings being expressed. And if they don’t make any sense to him, he can ask for clarification (not necessarily justification!)
Of course, it would be nice if we always took responsibility for our own feelings, never blaming anyone else. But we’re only human; we get angry, and we need to let off steam sometimes. An important part of caring about someone, if I’m on the receiving end of their criticism, is to resist interpreting it as a personal attack and getting defensive, and instead try to see through to what the underlying pain or issue is. It may well not be mostly about me at all, even though I may have triggered it.
And we need to also take the time to remind ourselves what we love and appreciate about each other!
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I need to be solid enough in myself to withstand her “storm,” so that I can explore with my partner the calmer waters which will inevitably follow. We can look at the lie of the land together and try to see: what could I, or she do differently? What misunderstandings happened, and how? What raw areas (probably based in past hurts) have been triggered in either of us? What “love language” works best for each of us? And we need to also take the time to remind ourselves what we love and appreciate about each other!
In my experience, when my woman feels her anger and pain has been listened to and acknowledged, even if it may have expressed itself in an unbalanced and factually inaccurate way, she can take a possibly more balanced view, or at least see more clearly what was going on for her. And I can reflect and decide which, if any of the criticisms being leveled at me are justified; then take steps to make changes, or explain why I can’t, or am not willing to.
If I react with indignation and defensiveness; denying any responsibility; proclaiming how unfair it is; feeling sorry for myself as a “victim” and protesting my innocence, etc. all this just actually sounds like an expression of hidden guilt. The sad result will simply be more separation, resentment and isolation in my relationship. Who the hell wants that?
But, this is exactly the way that many members of the Men’s Rights movement sound when responding to women’s criticisms or concerns. Full of anger, resentment, defensiveness; sounding like naughty boys, or like bullies who can’t stand having their view of the world challenged.
Yes, women most definitely do have some “unfair” advantages in our society, but the reality is that most men enjoy, and have enjoyed, many privileges from living in a male dominated society, even though they’re often invisible to us because we’ve grown up with them. They’ve not been invisible to the many women who’ve been on the receiving end of unfairness, abuse, or violence.
The good news which I think the BBC survey reveals is that most women want to be our friends, lovers, partners and wives.
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The good news which I think the BBC survey reveals is that most women want to be our friends, lovers, partners and wives. We just need to dare to listen to them when they’re feeling upset with us, and let ourselves be listened to; to respect them and be respected. I’ve never met a woman who didn’t want that kind of mutually balanced relationship with a man. If you meet a woman who doesn’t want that… steer clear.
And if we don’t want that kind of equality, it’s worth asking ourselves why. Being loved by, and loving, an equal is much more rewarding than trying to maintain a false feeling of power with a woman who feels unable to be herself because of fear and conditioning and who will sooner or later react to that in ways that will be damaging for everyone.
If you treat ALL others as you would expect to be, or demand to be, treated yourself, the world becomes a place full of the kind of love that almost all of us, at heart, want more than anything.
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Photo credit: Getty Images
To whom it may concern:
I would very much appreciate a second opinion regarding my behavior here.
Not to point finger at anyone, but I want to know according to what standard I crossed what line.
Honestly.
/K
Everyone makes mistakes.
But by making the same mistake twice in a row, I have now deeply offended someone.
And I have no excuse but a total lapse of misdirected concentration in my head.
So I can only offer my sincere apology.
And for an undetermined future refrain from further comments here, especially to the person in question.
I confess I didn’t get far through Stainless Steve’s article before writing him off – it was the point at which he called women a separate species. This really jarred and was a bit of a surprise on a site like this.
I don’t take offense with being referred to as, th “other wonderful human species”. Women are half the species right? I got to wonder though if you are nearly as offended when music lyrics call women four letter words, or when porn calls women four letter words, or when on mainstream tv at 8 pm you can hear family programming calling women the b-word, or the overt objectifying of women found in video games and entertianment in a lot of media. Because I nearly never hear men express their outrage over these things yet the way I see some men… Read more »
Rest assured I get equally offended then
Well, thank you then Steve. When I hear women call men names, I make sure to speak out about it too. Even when it’s my friends or female family members.
“Then there was this other rather thought provoking revelation: Only an average of 20 percent of women across of all ages (and there’s not so much difference in response between different age groups) are very satisfied with their sex lives; 10 percent feel so/so about it, and 7 percent are very unsatisfied.” Iben was so gracious enough as to provide the link to the actual survey. Mr. Garrett seems to have grossly misrepresented things here. The scale was from 0 to 10 with zero being extremely unsatisfied and 10 being extremely satisfied. Across ALL groups of women: 0 6.4% 1… Read more »
Jules
Interesting .
And since I am a woman that was exstremly dissatisfied with sex when I was married then I am an example of the 2,2% percent. …. It seems I am very unusual or
maybe the most dissatisfied has already escaped out of their marriage .
Iben, Hello! I think Iben that sex plays two different roles for men and women. Some overlap. But, I think fundamentally different. I think for us men, sex in marriage carries with it a sense of bonding, connection, validation of our masculinity, and a way for us to maintain and strengthen our emotion bond to our wife. I think for a woman, the emotional bonding and connection is created, maintained, and strengthened outside of sex. Sex contributes to it. But, not nearly as much as it does for us men. Also Iben I really think we have to consider the… Read more »
Hi Jules
I need some time to reflect on your comment here.
Jules
You will have my answer next week.
Right now I need to get away from this webpage?
Some here free to insult and attack others , and It makes me feel sick .
To characterise another person again and again is going to far .
You don’t do that,and I will be back.
When I feel better……
Jules
I have found two interesting articles I wanted to share with you about exactly what you write about here.
Some other time Jules.
I lost my motivation to continue the conversation nobody’s having .
Maybe next year..
I am so so very very sorry to hear this Iben. I really am. I have always and will always think very highly and warmly of you. I hold you in the highest regard Iben even though we might not always agree. You bring a unique insight and perspective to these conversations here. You have empathy and a big open heart. I saw what happened in another piece where the author accused you of violating copyright laws and made threats instead of arguing the merits of his position. I don’t understand what happened here. I saw the back and forth… Read more »
@Julia Byrd, yes I noticed the misrepresentation too. I too checked the research which Iben was kind enough to post the link to. I noticed that in the 18-24 age group, to the question ‘if you had your time again would you marry the same man?’ this had 100% answers as ‘yes’. Given that these are likely to be newlyweds or at the very least, in the first few years of marriage this should be expected! As you go up the age groups, the satisfaction goes down with the greatest being in 65+ age group, (presumably because divorce was more… Read more »
@Julia Byrd (again) – I think the mean score for sexual satisfaction was not 6.9% but 6.9/10?
“Being loved by, and loving, an equal is much more rewarding than trying to maintain a false feeling of power with a woman who feels unable to be herself because of fear and conditioning and who will sooner or later react to that in ways that will be damaging for everyone. If you treat ALL others as you would expect to be, or demand to be, treated yourself, the world becomes a place full of the kind of love that almost all of us, at heart, want more than anything.” I try to treat all others, not how I expect… Read more »
Flyingkal I think you are unfair to Steve with your comment. He says a lot more than the few words you refer to. And show me the couple or life long friends that never blew off steam ,and showed strong emotions . I am person that find it hard to forget and forgive , and that is MY problem. If you can not forgive and understand outbursts of strong feelings then you are the one with a problem. A problem to forgive, understand , be empathic . So to be able to weather the storm is a fine thing .… Read more »
Iben, Of course I could have quoted the whole article. I don’t think it makes much of a comment or discussion that way though… You write, along with Steve’s line “So to be able to weather the storm is a fine thing.” Of course it is a fine thing to be able to weather a storm. Especially for a person who has (regular) outbursts about everything and nothing, how life in general sucks, and especially how you as a partner fail to meet expectations that were just made-up, or never communicated in the first place. It is very “fine”, i.e.… Read more »
Flyingkal
“why do we expect the partner of that person to be the perfect person, always emotionally stable and never react negatively to attacks and criticism, however unwarranted or unfair they may be??”
Who says that we expect it?
It is simply wise to learn and aim for the skill to de escalate conflicts . And actually women are told that it important for them to do so with men,since men biologically get aroused faster than women in conflicts and when arguments starts.
Dr. John Gottman writes about it.
Hi Iben,
“Who says that we expect it?”
Among others, the article you’ve just read, and wrote multiple comments to… 🙂
“It is simply wise to learn and aim for the skill to de escalate conflicts.
I can agree to this.
So why is the article lecturing men on how to deescalate conflicts that their wife/girlfriend start, and that often has nothing to do with the man in question to begin with, instead of managing how not to start the conflict at all?
Weathering her storm is not healthy. If she cannot communicate to you her feelings without attacking you, then my friend you are not the problem, she is for her lack of communication skill. People would not do this at work, why do they do it in the relationships with their partners. In addition, more than 80% of women are not ecstatic about their sex lives, is that really news. Every statistic I’ve ever seen about that sort of thing says the same thing. Let’s face it couples don’t spend enough time investing in that, why is it such a surprise.… Read more »
I’ve actually never seen this survey criticized on any MRM sites and I actually look at them. Maybe it’s because it’s not saying what you think it’s saying. Feminists are saying that women are discriminated against at work. Women are saying the opposite. Feminists are saying that women are unhappy in their relationships because men are X, Y, and Z. This survey is saying the opposite. If 90% of women would marry the same guy, it’s not because he’s not helping around the house that’s at issue. As far as women’s sex lives are concerned, we can either look at… Read more »
John
I do not understand how anything Steve wrote here made you write this comment .
“They probably want their nice, stable, guy to pay the bills and come home to when she needs emotional support while she screws a lineup of “bad boys”. The survey results don’t bode well for that women need a strong emotional connection to have sex though, does it?”
@ Iben “Only 10 percent of women would rather be a man, and only 10 percent would not have married the same person.” ““Only an average of 20 percent of women across of all ages (and there’s not so much difference in response between different age groups) are very satisfied with their sex lives; 10 percent feel so/so about it, and 7 percent are very unsatisfied.”” “So, there’s clearly something that many of us can do to make our women happier. And it would be a real “labour of love.” To the men who seem angry about what this survey… Read more »
John
It does not make sense .
If UK have same divorce rate as many other western countries 45-50% , then how can 90% in this survey say they would marry the same man, the man they are married to.
Hmmm,weird.
@ Iben “It does not make sense .” You’re absolutely correct. What I suspect is that we’re all taught what we should want and it’s not always what we want. It happens to men too. Some guys spend 20 years fighting and clawing their way up in corporate America because they were taught that they need to be rich, powerful, and prestigious. Then they finally (if ever because some probably never do) come to the realization that they’re not happy. Society is probably telling women that this is what you should want. This is the man you should marry, etc.… Read more »
Rape fantasy . I never have them. Maybe it is an American thing .. It is hard to understand the survey from U.K. There women don’t even know the correct name of their private parts,their genitals. They do not know where the vagina is. http://www.teenvogue.com/story/vagina-women-dont-know-location-female-reproductive-system-survey And if these women are honest in the survey about “what women want” ,then maybe the cause for many of the divorces are that the man is so disappointed in marriage ( and sex he gets an marriage ) that he withdraws ,sulks or in other ways disconnects from his wife, and she gives up… Read more »
Hi Iben, the reason for so many British women apparently not knowing where their vaginas are, is because of the confusion of the usage of the word. (Even the medical profession are guilty of this!) The word ‘vagina’ has also been used to describe the whole female genitalia rather than just the birth canal. Interesting because English is a rich language, and we do have sex education in schools, but it’s really been the women’s movement that have encouraged greater interest in understanding and learning about our sexuality and genitals as women. But please don’t think all of us British… Read more »
Hi Rosy On this website also a lot of Americans use the word vagina for the whole female ganitalia . I have never ever heard anyone in my country use that term for anything else than the birth canal. I have never visited U.K. But I listen to BBC channel 4 several times a week. Great. Radio drama , readings of the best quality ! But I have never listened to Women’s hour. It is a lot more to marriage than sex. Marriage can be a very pleasant ” lifestyle ” even if you never experience that the earth moves… Read more »
I hope you can visit the UK some day Iben – it’s a great country. What’s left of it that is after Brexit (note the dismay!) I’ve not been able to check the research yet, but they didn’t specify who the 1000 women were in the report but they could have been just a random sample and included single, divorced, gay, straight, etc, etc. And so the 90% happy to marry the same man, I’m assuming are the ones already married, as opposed to the 20% unsatisfied sexually that may have been taken across the board. Perhaps this suggests good… Read more »
Rosy
Do all the different social groups , the different classes of women listen to BBC 4 and “women’s hour” or is it sort of an intellectual radio station?
Tends to be middle class, university educated, middle aged types nowadays. Some programmes are more intellectual than others, but there’s comedies, news items, etc. Have a listen!
Rosy,here is a link to the poll
http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/FTWET0710JN16WH.pdf
Thank you Iben! Most kind.
I don’t have rape fantasies Iben. I think the women who do though just want intense , passionate sex. I don’t think they really want to be raped. They just want to be desired deeply. I know this may be hard for some to understand, but contrary to popular belief, a lot of women aren’t fighting men off left and right and many of us question our own femininity and appeal and often feel ourselves lacking to be the kind of women men seem most drawn to. I think this rape fantasy setting is an extention of a man desiring… Read more »
Only 20% of the women are satisfied with their sex life, yet 90% would marry the same man all over again.
Perhaps that tells us that sexual satisfaction isn’t all that high on the priority list for women? Partly for the reasons that John lists, and partly for other reasons?
Yet, it doesn’t say how many of the 1000+ questioned women were single, married, divorced etc. if there were a high ratio of younger “not yet divorced” women in the poll, perhaps part of the answer to the somewhat skewed statistics could be found there.
Flyingkal “Only 20% of the women are satisfied with their sex life, yet 90% would marry the same man all over again. Perhaps that tells us that sexual satisfaction isn’t all that high on the priority list for women? Partly for the reasons that John lists,” If those women were fortunate enough to marry the great love of their life, then I understand why they say they would marry him again . To share your life with someone you love deeply is better than sharing with spouse that is sexy , and the best in bed but maybe has nothing… Read more »
Iben,
“To share your life with someone you love deeply is better than sharing with spouse that is sexy , and the best in bed but maybe has nothing else to offer.”
I just can’t figure out why love and sexy should be mutually exclusive?
If couples love each other deeply enough to share the their lifes, shouldn’t more than only 10% be able to set aside the time and effort to figure out, maybe not how to be the “best” in bed, but how to be good enough for their mutual satisfaction?
Flyingkal
Who said that love and sexy is mutually exclusive?
Just go out into the real world and find it…..
Iben,
“Who said that love and sexy is mutually exclusive?”
You stated that one is better than the other.
You are right Flyingkall “Who said that love and sexy is mutually exclusive?” You stated that one is better than the other.” I should have written this is my humble opinion and my experience . You see often it is the weakest, the most troubled among is that can give the most fantastic experience in bed, Those that are not a In control all the time, the impulsive ,those with not so strong boundaries between themselves and the other person . Those that have suffered, those that have stronger feelings than others. The addict, the the struggling artist that never… Read more »
And, snap. There you have it Erin. The people who are difficult to live with as a life partner, those who “don’t have their sh!t together”. There you have the poster boy for “bad boys” that is often referred to, when men often question why it is that women want one kind of man as a lover, for uninhibited sex, and another kind as a husband, provider, and father for their children, but more reluctantly as a sex partner. Women often question this binary and call it a false dichotomy. But all of a sudden you’ve got it all figured… Read more »
Flyingkal
Why are you so unplesant and aggressive ?
Maybe you should take up boxing or some form of fighting to get out all your anger at women .
You insult me.
I figured this out many centuries ago….
But no I will never call those persons ” bad boys ” or ” bad girls” .
That is a stereotype way to see others that is not helpful at all.
Hi Erin,
Why am I so unpleasant and aggressive?
I don’t know, why are you so evasive and condescending?
Perhaps we read a lot of emotions that aren’t there, or perhaps we just bring out the worst in each other, I don’t know? What do you think?
Flyingkal.
Are you OK?
Hi Iben, You ask if I am OK. Why shouldn’t I be OK, and why do you ask? I keep trying to engage in a dialogue with you, but you keep moving the goalposts, avoiding my direct questions or re-phrase them to suit your presumptions about me and the men-vs-women dynamic. You state one thing, but when I ask a direct follow-up question to that, you pretend you don’t know what I’m talking about and deflect to talk about something completely different. (Hence my comment about you being “evasive”.) Case in point, did you consider what I wrote in my… Read more »
Flyimgkal you started to call me Erin, and then again you called me Erin.
That why I asked if you we’re OK.
Now I understand why women avoid you.
I guess you communicate with them the same way you do with me.
And that. Flyingkal is why women withdraw from you.
It is as simple as that.
You do not have to comment because I am not going to read it.
Okay, I am really sorry I adressed you with the wrong name.
It’s a major lapse on my part and I can do nothing but apologize for that.
Flyingkal To use a wrong name is not a problem,it happens to many of us once in a while. So your apology is accepted. However it is the end of any relationship I have with anothe person when he or she see me the way you describe here. This is how you see me, So let’s not waste each other’s time by trying to communicate in the future. “I keep trying to engage in a dialogue with you, but you keep moving the goalposts, avoiding my direct questions or re-phrase them to suit your presumptions about me and the men-vs-women… Read more »
Hi Flying Kal! How are you my friend! I hope you all is well. You know I really do think their is some validity to your point. I mentioned this above in my reply to Iben. I cannot speak about Europe. But, I do know that here in America these men “without boundaries” to be polite or the non marrying kind of men are definitely the preferred type of men for sex by women hands down. I really don’t care whom they have sex with FlyingKal. It is there business. But, the problem I have with the whole damn thing… Read more »
Hi Jules, and thank you.
I am fine, and I hope all is well with you, too.
By and large, I agree with you. I really don’t care whom they have sex with, I’m just rather fed up with the double standard.
My opinion is that the situation is pretty similar around here as in America (but perhaps not to the same extent, I don’t know?). Others may disagree, but thank you for your support.
John
Do you really think it is the women age 55-64 that have a line of lovers ( bad boys) lined up?
”
Nearly a quarter (24%) of women aged 25 to 34 claimed they were “extremely satisfied” in the bedroom.
Older women, in the 55 to 64 age group, were the least likely to be “extremely satisfied” (16%) and the most likely to be “extremely unsatisfied” (9%).”
John
I forgot the link http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37600771
That told about age difference in how happy the women are sexually.
So I wasn’t the only one that noticed the usual assertion that the MRM is irrationally angry and hates equality and the usual lack of citation or proof.
Maybe it’s because it’s not saying what you think it’s saying. Feminists are saying that women are discriminated against at work. Women are saying the opposite.
Yep saw this too.
Google NAWALT ~ start there and see how far down the rabbit hole you fall.
The Steer Clear advice is well on point, I practice it daily; early and often.